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Shoal draft keel

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  • rogerlowe156
    I m thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 12, 2013
      I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?
    • William Stellin
      You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water. A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 12, 2013
        You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
        Bill STellin    #6

        Sent from my iPad

        On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

         

        I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

      • rogerlowe156
        I know , unfortunately the boat yard I keep it at has a very shallow channel so my window to get in and out is very small . ... slight ability to get into
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
          I know , unfortunately the boat yard I keep it at has a very shallow
          channel so my window to get in and out is very small .
          --- In j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com, William Stellin wrote:
          >
          > You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a
          slight ability to get into shallow water. A friend just converted a
          Catalina to shoal draft. Now that makes sense since they can't point to
          begin with.
          > Bill STellin #6
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" rogerlowe156@... wrote:
          >
          > > I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and
          wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?
          > >
          > >
          >
        • tony@shanomet.com
          Bill, the brings a question to mind. For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
            Bill, the brings a question to mind.

            For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

            Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

            Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

             

            You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
            Bill STellin    #6

            Sent from my iPad

            On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

             

            I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

          • William Stellin
            Probably the play was there already. There are a lot of links with the steering system and each one can magnify play. It is obviously not a good idea to have
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
              Probably the play was there already.  There are a lot of links with the steering system and each one can magnify play.  It is obviously not a good idea to have the rudder stuck in the mud. But, the rudder stock is 6-7 inches of strong fiberglass that is not likely to bend.  More likely to break if the force is hight enough.  I wouldn't think your situation could produce those kinds of forces.
              If you can dive under the rudder, try to see if there is any play by wiggling it back and forth.
              Going back to the links, each one is a sort of ball and socket type and they can get loose.  I've replaced mine and it helped somewhat, but play is still there.  By play, I mean the wheel can turn a bit before it is translated into rudder movement.  You can check that visually by just turning the wheel and watching to see if the rudder moves.  However, a quarter inch movement of the wheel translates into only a very slight movement of the rudder so you may not even see anything.
              Good luck and hope you don't have to spend much time in shallow marina's
              Bill

              Sent from my iPad

              On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:23 AM, "tony@..." <tony@...> wrote:

               

              Bill, the brings a question to mind.

              For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

              Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

              Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

               

              You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
              Bill STellin    #6

              Sent from my iPad

              On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

               

              I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

            • Wayne Cassady
              We sail our J40 on an inland lake for now while she rests from years of ocean sailing. The lake is a connected waterway with bridge clearances that are a
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                We sail our J40 on an inland lake for now while she rests from years of ocean sailing. The lake is a connected waterway with bridge clearances that are a little tight for the J40 but manageable. She is a deep draft and that presents no problems other than the very infrequent early warning of our approaching a muddy shoal. Several people have had a local yard cut several feet from the tops of the masts (Hunters and Beneteaus--big ones) so they can clear the bridge. That has always struck me as madness, although allowing for Bill's comment that their performance was not exceptional to begin with, one might make sense of the decision. I would only make such a move if I knew that was where I was going to see my sailing days come to an end and the boat would be someone else's when she went to new places.

                On 6/13/2013 4:09 AM, rogerlowe156 wrote:
                 

                I know , unfortunately the boat yard I keep it at has a very shallow
                channel so my window to get in and out is very small .
                --- In j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com, William Stellin wrote:
                >
                > You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a
                slight ability to get into shallow water. A friend just converted a
                Catalina to shoal draft. Now that makes sense since they can't point to
                begin with.
                > Bill STellin #6
                >
                > Sent from my iPad
                >
                > On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" rogerlowe156@... wrote:
                >
                > > I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and
                wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?
                > >
                > >
                >


              • Frank Flannery
                Where are you located? I have a J40 with a shoal draft. I would be interested in swapping for a deep draft. I am assuming you have a 42. I am not sure if the
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                  Where are you located? I have a J40 with a shoal draft. I would be
                  interested in swapping for a deep draft. I am assuming you have a 42.
                  I am not sure if the keel bolts are in exactly the same places.
                  Also, we wouldn't be back in the USA until next summer.

                  Frank


                  On 6/12/13, rogerlowe156 <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:
                  > I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder
                  > if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?
                  >
                  >
                • Bill Bowers
                  If you have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal it may be play developing in the pinion. I have J42 #3 and found I could eliminate all the slack in the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                    If you have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal it may be play developing in the pinion. I have J42 #3 and found I could eliminate all the slack in the steering by removing 3 of 4 of the pinion gear spacer gaskets under the bearing plate provided to correct for gear tooth wear. It is easy to do yourself. I also replace the pinion shaft ball bearing race and bearing water seals. They are both standard US sizes. I have spare seals if you need some. Our steering is smooth and has no play. 

                    Cheers
                    Bill Bowers
                    J42 ConverJence

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:23 AM, "tony@..." <tony@...> wrote:

                     

                    Bill, the brings a question to mind.

                    For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

                    Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

                    Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

                     

                    You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
                    Bill STellin    #6

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

                     

                    I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

                  • Anthony M Iacono
                    Hi Bill, I do have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal on J42 #26. I m not aboard and will look at the manual. How did you gain access to the area in
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                      Hi Bill,
                       
                      I do have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal on J42 #26. 
                      I'm not aboard and will look at the manual. How did you gain access to the area in question. Tony 

                      From: Bill Bowers <wfb01983@...>
                      Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:59:59 -0400
                      To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                      Cc: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: [j4x-owners-group] Wheel Play

                       

                      If you have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal it may be play developing in the pinion. I have J42 #3 and found I could eliminate all the slack in the steering by removing 3 of 4 of the pinion gear spacer gaskets under the bearing plate provided to correct for gear tooth wear. It is easy to do yourself. I also replace the pinion shaft ball bearing race and bearing water seals. They are both standard US sizes. I have spare seals if you need some. Our steering is smooth and has no play. 

                      Cheers
                      Bill Bowers
                      J42 ConverJence

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:23 AM, "tony@..." <tony@...> wrote:

                       

                      Bill, the brings a question to mind.

                      For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

                      Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

                      Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

                       

                      You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
                      Bill STellin    #6

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

                       

                      I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

                    • William Stellin
                      It is interesting to hear you talk about a manual for your steering. I have no manual but would sure like to get my hands on one. Could you share yours on
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                        It is interesting to hear you talk about a manual for your steering.  I have no manual but would sure like to get my hands on one.  Could you share yours on line or some other way.
                        Thanks
                        Bill Stellin   Jaywalker #6

                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:53 AM, "Anthony M Iacono" <tony@...> wrote:

                         

                        Hi Bill,
                         
                        I do have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal on J42 #26. 
                        I'm not aboard and will look at the manual. How did you gain access to the area in question. Tony 

                        From: Bill Bowers <wfb01983@...>
                        Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:59:59 -0400
                        To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: [j4x-owners-group] Wheel Play

                         

                        If you have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal it may be play developing in the pinion. I have J42 #3 and found I could eliminate all the slack in the steering by removing 3 of 4 of the pinion gear spacer gaskets under the bearing plate provided to correct for gear tooth wear. It is easy to do yourself. I also replace the pinion shaft ball bearing race and bearing water seals. They are both standard US sizes. I have spare seals if you need some. Our steering is smooth and has no play. 

                        Cheers
                        Bill Bowers
                        J42 ConverJence

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:23 AM, "tony@..." <tony@...> wrote:

                         

                        Bill, the brings a question to mind.

                        For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

                        Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

                        Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

                         

                        You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
                        Bill STellin    #6

                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

                         

                        I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

                      • Anthony M Iacono
                        I WILL if I have one, and Im quite sure I have seen a Whitlock steering manual in the bag of manuals I have aboard. From: William Stellin
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 13, 2013
                          I WILL if I have one, and Im quite sure I have seen a Whitlock steering manual in the bag of manuals I have aboard. 

                          From: William Stellin <wstellin@...>
                          Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 14:05:19 -0400
                          To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Wheel Play

                           

                          It is interesting to hear you talk about a manual for your steering.  I have no manual but would sure like to get my hands on one.  Could you share yours on line or some other way.
                          Thanks
                          Bill Stellin   Jaywalker #6

                          Sent from my iPad

                          On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:53 AM, "Anthony M Iacono" <tony@...> wrote:

                           

                          Hi Bill,
                           
                          I do have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal on J42 #26. 
                          I'm not aboard and will look at the manual. How did you gain access to the area in question. Tony 

                          From: Bill Bowers <wfb01983@...>
                          Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:59:59 -0400
                          To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: [j4x-owners-group] Wheel Play

                           

                          If you have the Whitlock rack and pinion pedestal it may be play developing in the pinion. I have J42 #3 and found I could eliminate all the slack in the steering by removing 3 of 4 of the pinion gear spacer gaskets under the bearing plate provided to correct for gear tooth wear. It is easy to do yourself. I also replace the pinion shaft ball bearing race and bearing water seals. They are both standard US sizes. I have spare seals if you need some. Our steering is smooth and has no play. 

                          Cheers
                          Bill Bowers
                          J42 ConverJence

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:23 AM, "tony@..." <tony@...> wrote:

                           

                          Bill, the brings a question to mind.

                          For about one month this season I had to keep my boat in the marina that is  very shallow. Each tide cycle both the keel and rudder were stuck in mud. I knew the keel was in mud but had no idea the rudder was stuck until I pulled the boat for another reason and saw the Mudline about eight or 12 inches up From the bottom of the rudder 

                          Occasionally there would be some wave action and the boat would move But the keel and rudder would be stuck

                          Then This week I started my passage from Maryland to Newport and for the first time I noticed a slight play in the wheel. It is not much may be a Quarter of an inch. Do you think the boat being pushed from side to side while the rudder was stuck could have somehow damaged the steering Mechanism or rudder Assembly ?

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:53 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

                           

                          You will lose all that makes a J a J. Not worth it in my eye to gain a slight ability to get into shallow water.  A friend just converted a Catalina to shoal draft.  Now that makes sense since they can't point to begin with.
                          Bill STellin    #6

                          Sent from my iPad

                          On Jun 12, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "rogerlowe156" <rogerlowe156@...> wrote:

                           

                          I'm thinking about converting from a deep draft to a shoal draft and wonder if anyone has done it and who originally manufactured the keels?

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