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Re: [j4x-owners-group] Jefa rudder bearing replacement advice

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  • William Stellin
    I don t think TPI used anti-seize on anything. But they sure used a lot of 3M 5400. Those items glued together won t come apart either. Bill Sent from my iPad
    Message 1 of 12 , May 16, 2013
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      I don't think TPI used anti-seize on anything.  But they sure used a lot of 3M 5400. Those items glued together won't come apart either.
      Bill
      Sent from my iPad

      On May 16, 2013, at 3:18 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...> wrote:

       

      Uh oh, I think TPI ran out of anti-seize the day they put my steering
      together. I can't get any of them to budge with a socket wrench. I
      will spray them all with penetrant and try an impact driver in a few
      days.

      Worst case, I think I can cut them at the center seam with a hacksaw
      and then have a machine shop somehow drill out the old ones and put
      new, bigger ones in. Of course, this is in Panama, so who knows....

      Frank

      On 5/16/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
      > Yes, the yard in Barcelona broke off the edge of the aluminum quadrant with
      > the bolt still in it.
      >
      > they welded it back together after removing the bolt.
      > They only had trouble with one of the four on each quadrant.
      > The weld was done very well and you can't tell it has been repaired.
      > I use TefGel on everything now, even though we are back in fresh water.
      > Bill
      >
      > Sent from my iPad
      >
      > On May 16, 2013, at 1:51 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Great. Did anyone have any trouble getting the stainless bolts out of
      >> the aluminum quadrants? They seem to be pretty much frozen in place.
      >> I guess this is the kind of thing that makes this a Big Job.
      >>
      >> Frank
      >>
      >> On 5/16/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
      >> > Yes at least on my boat. I had a new bearing by Jafa installed and it
      >> > uses
      >> > lip seals instead of the old Harken with a flax packing gland. I
      >> > dropped
      >> > the rudder last winter to clean the roller bearings and it was a snap.
      >> > One
      >> > bolt seems to be enough and that is all the boat ever had. The cleaning
      >> > made
      >> > a huge improvement. Steering is light as a feather now. The bearing was
      >> > installed in Barcelona in 2007 so it had gotten kinda dirty over the
      >> > years.
      >> > Bill
      >> >
      >> > Sent from my iPad
      >> >
      >> > On May 16, 2013, at 8:07 AM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...>
      >> > wrote:
      >> >
      >> >> So only the upper bearing holds the rudder in the boat?
      >> >>
      >> >> On 5/15/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
      >> >> > The bearing is held in place at the top with a bolt that goes
      >> >> > through
      >> >> > the
      >> >> > upper bearing housing which keeps it from dropping out of the boat.
      >> >> > The
      >> >> > upper bearing structure is bolted to the deck.
      >> >> > Bill
      >> >> >
      >> >> > Sent from my iPad
      >> >> >
      >> >> > On May 15, 2013, at 9:31 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...>
      >> >> > wrote:
      >> >> >
      >> >> >> I finally need to replace the lower rudder bearing on our J/40. It
      >> >> >> turns out our boat was built with a j/120 bearing, but I think that
      >> >> >> all the replacement bearings are essentially the same, other than
      >> >> >> size. I am using the jefa bearing, since the size makes it a direct
      >> >> >> replacement and because it was easiest to get it to Panama.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> I'm a little confused as to what holds the rudder in the boat. My
      >> >> >> understanding of the old bearings is that there was a race affixed
      >> >> >> to
      >> >> >> the stainless sleeve on the rudder post via set screws, and
      >> >> >> additional
      >> >> >> set screws holding the outer race to the hull. The bearing itself
      >> >> >> was
      >> >> >> such that the two halves wouldn't come apart.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> The new bearing just has a sleeve that the roller bearings ride on.
      >> >> >> That means it doesn't do anything to hold the rudder in the boat.
      >> >> >> My
      >> >> >> old top bearing will do that, but I'd like more than one point
      >> >> >> holding
      >> >> >> on. Also, if I have to replace the upper bearing, then what?
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Thanks for any advice.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Frank
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >
      >> >>
      >> >
      >>
      >

    • Frank Flannery
      Bill, We are now two weeks away from hauling to do the bearing. I am still trying to figure out how to fit the lip seals. It would seem that I need to come
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 10, 2013
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        Bill,

        We are now two weeks away from hauling to do the bearing. I am still
        trying to figure out how to fit the lip seals. It would seem that I
        need to come up with another tube with an inner diameter equal to the
        outer diameter of the lip seal. I see in your writeup that this tube
        looks integral to the bearing. Did Jefa supply this tube with the
        bearing? Mine didn't come with one.

        Thanks,
        Frank


        On 5/16/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
        > Yes at least on my boat. I had a new bearing by Jafa installed and it uses
        > lip seals instead of the old Harken with a flax packing gland. I dropped
        > the rudder last winter to clean the roller bearings and it was a snap. One
        > bolt seems to be enough and that is all the boat ever had. The cleaning made
        > a huge improvement. Steering is light as a feather now. The bearing was
        > installed in Barcelona in 2007 so it had gotten kinda dirty over the years.
        > Bill
        >
        > Sent from my iPad
        >
        > On May 16, 2013, at 8:07 AM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...> wrote:
        >
        >> So only the upper bearing holds the rudder in the boat?
        >>
        >> On 5/15/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
        >> > The bearing is held in place at the top with a bolt that goes through
        >> > the
        >> > upper bearing housing which keeps it from dropping out of the boat. The
        >> > upper bearing structure is bolted to the deck.
        >> > Bill
        >> >
        >> > Sent from my iPad
        >> >
        >> > On May 15, 2013, at 9:31 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...>
        >> > wrote:
        >> >
        >> >> I finally need to replace the lower rudder bearing on our J/40. It
        >> >> turns out our boat was built with a j/120 bearing, but I think that
        >> >> all the replacement bearings are essentially the same, other than
        >> >> size. I am using the jefa bearing, since the size makes it a direct
        >> >> replacement and because it was easiest to get it to Panama.
        >> >>
        >> >> I'm a little confused as to what holds the rudder in the boat. My
        >> >> understanding of the old bearings is that there was a race affixed to
        >> >> the stainless sleeve on the rudder post via set screws, and additional
        >> >> set screws holding the outer race to the hull. The bearing itself was
        >> >> such that the two halves wouldn't come apart.
        >> >>
        >> >> The new bearing just has a sleeve that the roller bearings ride on.
        >> >> That means it doesn't do anything to hold the rudder in the boat. My
        >> >> old top bearing will do that, but I'd like more than one point holding
        >> >> on. Also, if I have to replace the upper bearing, then what?
        >> >>
        >> >> Thanks for any advice.
        >> >>
        >> >> Frank
        >> >>
        >> >
        >>
        >
      • William Stellin
        It s been some time since our bearing was replaced, so my memory of it is a little hazy. If I recall, the tube which was supplied by Jefa and is aluminum, is
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 10, 2013
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          It's been some time since our bearing was replaced, so my memory of it is a little hazy.
          If I recall, the tube which was supplied by Jefa and is aluminum, is only used to have something the gaiter is attached to.  The lip seals are part of the bearing race, as they do not rotate.  The rudder shaft rotates inside the bearing and the fixed lip seals prevent water from getting in.  The gaiter is further safety in case some water gets past the lip seals.
          If you go into Jefa's  web site, they have an excellent piece on installation which should answer all or most of your questions.  Also they welcome calls on the telephone and will explain and help you that way as well.
          On last note.  My retro-fit was much more extensive than just removing the old bearing and replacing it with a Jefa design.  My old bearing was made by Harken and the race was different which required cutting a new and larger hole and then quite of bit of glass work inside the boat to replace structural supports for the bearing.
          Bill

          Sent from my iPad

          On Oct 10, 2013, at 2:07 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...> wrote:

           

          Bill,

          We are now two weeks away from hauling to do the bearing. I am still
          trying to figure out how to fit the lip seals. It would seem that I
          need to come up with another tube with an inner diameter equal to the
          outer diameter of the lip seal. I see in your writeup that this tube
          looks integral to the bearing. Did Jefa supply this tube with the
          bearing? Mine didn't come with one.

          Thanks,
          Frank

          On 5/16/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
          > Yes at least on my boat. I had a new bearing by Jafa installed and it uses
          > lip seals instead of the old Harken with a flax packing gland. I dropped
          > the rudder last winter to clean the roller bearings and it was a snap. One
          > bolt seems to be enough and that is all the boat ever had. The cleaning made
          > a huge improvement. Steering is light as a feather now. The bearing was
          > installed in Barcelona in 2007 so it had gotten kinda dirty over the years.
          > Bill
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On May 16, 2013, at 8:07 AM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...> wrote:
          >
          >> So only the upper bearing holds the rudder in the boat?
          >>
          >> On 5/15/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
          >> > The bearing is held in place at the top with a bolt that goes through
          >> > the
          >> > upper bearing housing which keeps it from dropping out of the boat. The
          >> > upper bearing structure is bolted to the deck.
          >> > Bill
          >> >
          >> > Sent from my iPad
          >> >
          >> > On May 15, 2013, at 9:31 PM, "Frank Flannery" <fflanner@...>
          >> > wrote:
          >> >
          >> >> I finally need to replace the lower rudder bearing on our J/40. It
          >> >> turns out our boat was built with a j/120 bearing, but I think that
          >> >> all the replacement bearings are essentially the same, other than
          >> >> size. I am using the jefa bearing, since the size makes it a direct
          >> >> replacement and because it was easiest to get it to Panama.
          >> >>
          >> >> I'm a little confused as to what holds the rudder in the boat. My
          >> >> understanding of the old bearings is that there was a race affixed to
          >> >> the stainless sleeve on the rudder post via set screws, and additional
          >> >> set screws holding the outer race to the hull. The bearing itself was
          >> >> such that the two halves wouldn't come apart.
          >> >>
          >> >> The new bearing just has a sleeve that the roller bearings ride on.
          >> >> That means it doesn't do anything to hold the rudder in the boat. My
          >> >> old top bearing will do that, but I'd like more than one point holding
          >> >> on. Also, if I have to replace the upper bearing, then what?
          >> >>
          >> >> Thanks for any advice.
          >> >>
          >> >> Frank
          >> >>
          >> >
          >>
          >

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