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Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42

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  • Thomas Keffer
    Hi, Ed The J/42 is a mainsail driven boat. The job of the foresail is to provide a continuous lift for the mainsail, allowing a higher angle-of-attack, not to
    Message 1 of 6 , May 13 3:33 PM
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      Hi, Ed

      The J/42 is a mainsail driven boat. The job of the foresail is to provide a continuous lift for the mainsail, allowing a higher angle-of-attack, not to provide sheer surface area. You'll be fine with the standard 100% headsail. That's what I use 90% of the time when I'm not racing, and that's in the Pacific Northwest where we suffer from light winds all summer.

      -tk



      On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Ed Cale <e.cale@...> wrote:
       

      Hi TK,
       
      Thanks for the fast response and insights.  I will certainly keep those issues in mind.  While I now live in Sonoma County, Northern California, I plan to keep the boat in New England, as the cruising is far better than on the west coast (IMHO).  As such, I won't need A/C, a watermaker, or much else to keep me happy.
       
      I do have one specific question about sails.  As I said, I will be cruising, not racing this boat, and will probably buy a new roller-furling genoa, which will be my everyday headsail.  Given that the winds are usually pretty good in New England (north of CT), I'm assuming that a, say, 120% or 130% sail would be about appropriate.  Do you disagree?  (BTW, both my wife and I are in our mid-60s and in pretty good shape.  However, we have no interest in fighting a huge, overlapping headsail.)
       
      Thanks again for your valuable insights.
       
      Ed
       
       

      From: Thomas Keffer <tkeffer@...>
      To: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42
       
      Hi, Ed (and welcome to the J/4X group).

      Mostly, the J/42 is a very well constructed boat with very few weak points. However, like all boats, they have their problem spots. Here are the three I'm aware of:
      1. Corrosion in the port fuel tank due to contact with the hull. See Dave Robinson's write up.
      2. Water ingress into the chamber under the sole of the anchor locker.
      3. Rudder bearing problems, particularly with the early boats that used Harken bearings. See Bill Stellin's write up. My boat had Tides Marine bearings and also has had some problems.
      Problems #1 and #2 are easy to spot and inexpensive to fix. Problem #3 is also easy to spot (you'll experience play or high resistance if there is a problem), but expensive to fix. 

      Of course, there are also the usual wear-and-tear problems that any competent marine survey should be able to outline.

      My personal philosophy is to look for a boat that has had minimal additions --- no genset, no A/C, no watermaker --- and keep the weight down and the performance up, but if you've browsed the message threads here you can see that many others don't agree with me! :-)

      Are you on the East Coast?

      -tk

      On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM, e.cale <e.cale@...> wrote:
       
      Hello to the members of the J-4X Group!

      I've been sailing since the 1970s, and always admired J-boats. Years ago, as a J-37 blew past me on a beat, I wanted to yell over to the skipper to turn of the engine! Of course, it wasn't on.

      Anyway, I'm now in the wonderful position of considering a J-42. I would like to know from current owners if there are any special mechanical or construction issues I should look for in evaluating a potential purchase. I will, obviously, be concerned with potential water penetration into the core, possible delamination in the hull or deck, bonding issues between bulkheads/furniture and the hull, and the condition of the engine. However, are there any particular little bugs or issues that you would recommend I check before making a commitment?

      I learned a lot from reading owners previous comments on shoal vs deep draft, and I don't have a strong commitment, either way.

      I would appreciate any recommendations which you might have.

      Thanks in advance,
      Ed Cale


      --
      Tom Keffer
      keffer@...+1 541-386-8891 (h)+1 541-490-9507 (c)
      Skype: tkeffer




      --
      Tom Keffer
      keffer@...
      +1 541-386-8891 (h)
      +1 541-490-9507 (c)
      Skype: tkeffer
    • Rod Deyo
      A few additional comments on the sails. For jibs we have a North Marathon 3DL 150% #1 and North 102% Nordac #3 with vertical battens. Sailing and cruising
      Message 2 of 6 , May 13 8:17 PM
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        A few additional comments on the sails.

         

        For jibs we have a North Marathon 3DL 150% #1 and North 102% Nordac  #3 with vertical battens. Sailing and cruising year around in Puget Sound and Canada, we encounter highly variable winds from 0-40+  knts. The 42’s do remarkably well  for a heavier boat with just the #3 in winds as low as 6-7 knts true depending on wave conditions, but below that really need a larger jib to accelerate and drive the boat to speed upwind. In anything over 10-12 knts true, the boat takes off with the #3, and its really nice being able to trim the jib flat if the winds get above 20 knts true, rather than roller-furling a larger sail. As noted, there is also a definite advantage in easier tacking with the #3 – the overlapping jib can be troublesome for smaller sail trimmers (or larger ones for that matter J).

         

        Downwind, the boat does reasonably well with the big main and winging the #3 jib in winds as low as 10-12 knts true. The larger jib  would be more effective if you don’t use a flying sail. But for any extended distance downwind in less than 14-16 knts true, we’ll usually try to fly either a symmetric or asymmetric spin since this makes a tremendous difference in boat performance. The J/42 is quite stable with its keel weight and large rudder, and if you use a sock and blanket the spin behind the main during the douse,  you can easily fly a spin in 18-25+ knts double-handed. This will get you rolling along…

         

        Rod Deyo

        J/42 Northern Lights

        Seattle, WA

         

        From: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Keffer
        Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:33 PM
        To: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42

         

         

        Hi, Ed

         

        The J/42 is a mainsail driven boat. The job of the foresail is to provide a continuous lift for the mainsail, allowing a higher angle-of-attack, not to provide sheer surface area. You'll be fine with the standard 100% headsail. That's what I use 90% of the time when I'm not racing, and that's in the Pacific Northwest where we suffer from light winds all summer.

         

        -tk

         

         

        On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Ed Cale <e.cale@...> wrote:

         

        Hi TK,

         

        Thanks for the fast response and insights.  I will certainly keep those issues in mind.  While I now live in Sonoma County, Northern California, I plan to keep the boat in New England, as the cruising is far better than on the west coast (IMHO).  As such, I won't need A/C, a watermaker, or much else to keep me happy.

         

        I do have one specific question about sails.  As I said, I will be cruising, not racing this boat, and will probably buy a new roller-furling genoa, which will be my everyday headsail.  Given that the winds are usually pretty good in New England (north of CT), I'm assuming that a, say, 120% or 130% sail would be about appropriate.  Do you disagree?  (BTW, both my wife and I are in our mid-60s and in pretty good shape.  However, we have no interest in fighting a huge, overlapping headsail.)

         

        Thanks again for your valuable insights.

         

        Ed

         

         

         

        From: Thomas Keffer <tkeffer@...>
        To: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42

         

        Hi, Ed (and welcome to the J/4X group).

         

        Mostly, the J/42 is a very well constructed boat with very few weak points. However, like all boats, they have their problem spots. Here are the three I'm aware of:

        1. Corrosion in the port fuel tank due to contact with the hull. See Dave Robinson's write up.
        2. Water ingress into the chamber under the sole of the anchor locker.
        3. Rudder bearing problems, particularly with the early boats that used Harken bearings. See Bill Stellin's write up. My boat had Tides Marine bearings and also has had some problems.

        Problems #1 and #2 are easy to spot and inexpensive to fix. Problem #3 is also easy to spot (you'll experience play or high resistance if there is a problem), but expensive to fix. 

         

        Of course, there are also the usual wear-and-tear problems that any competent marine survey should be able to outline.

         

        My personal philosophy is to look for a boat that has had minimal additions --- no genset, no A/C, no watermaker --- and keep the weight down and the performance up, but if you've browsed the message threads here you can see that many others don't agree with me! :-)

         

        Are you on the East Coast?

         

        -tk

         

        On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM, e.cale <e.cale@...> wrote:

         

        Hello to the members of the J-4X Group!

        I've been sailing since the 1970s, and always admired J-boats. Years ago, as a J-37 blew past me on a beat, I wanted to yell over to the skipper to turn of the engine! Of course, it wasn't on.

        Anyway, I'm now in the wonderful position of considering a J-42. I would like to know from current owners if there are any special mechanical or construction issues I should look for in evaluating a potential purchase. I will, obviously, be concerned with potential water penetration into the core, possible delamination in the hull or deck, bonding issues between bulkheads/furniture and the hull, and the condition of the engine. However, are there any particular little bugs or issues that you would recommend I check before making a commitment?

        I learned a lot from reading owners previous comments on shoal vs deep draft, and I don't have a strong commitment, either way.

        I would appreciate any recommendations which you might have.

        Thanks in advance,
        Ed Cale

         

        --

        Tom Keffer

        keffer@...+1 541-386-8891 (h)+1 541-490-9507 (c)

        Skype: tkeffer



         

        --

        Tom Keffer

        keffer@...
        +1 541-386-8891 (h)
        +1 541-490-9507 (c)

        Skype: tkeffer

      • Frank Flannery
        I would have to second Rod s recommendations. our boat is a 40, but they have almost the same hull and rig, so I imagine they are similar enough to compare. We
        Message 3 of 6 , May 15 8:09 PM
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          I would have to second Rod's recommendations. our boat is a 40, but
          they have almost the same hull and rig, so I imagine they are similar
          enough to compare.

          We have the 100% jib up about 95% of the time. It's great upwind down
          to about 9 kts and deeper downwind in 11. We generally are sailing in
          some seas, which means you need a little more wind than you would in
          the calmer waters we've experienced in the PNW or New England summer.

          However, the boat is absolutely amazing to sail with our 140% jib in
          lighter winds. When we were in Maine for a summer, we used the 140%
          the whole time. Occasionally, we were in up to 20 kts, but never
          upwind. Usually it was closer to 8kts, which meant typically 6+ kts
          of boatspeed.

          I've contemplated the idea of a second forestay immediately inside the
          first stay in order to have two jibs available. This would be a
          solent rig, not a cutter. I'm not sure what the engineering would
          involve, but the anchor chain area is already tight and there would be
          a host of other problems I'm sure. I can always dream....

          Frank


          On 5/13/13, Rod Deyo <roddeyo@...> wrote:
          >
          > A few additional comments on the sails.
          >
          > For jibs we have a North Marathon 3DL 150% #1 and North 102% Nordac #3 with
          > vertical battens. Sailing and cruising year around in Puget Sound and
          > Canada, we encounter highly variable winds from 0-40+ knts. The 42's do
          > remarkably well for a heavier boat with just the #3 in winds as low as 6-7
          > knts true depending on wave conditions, but below that really need a larger
          > jib to accelerate and drive the boat to speed upwind. In anything over 10-12
          > knts true, the boat takes off with the #3, and its really nice being able to
          > trim the jib flat if the winds get above 20 knts true, rather than
          > roller-furling a larger sail. As noted, there is also a definite advantage
          > in easier tacking with the #3 - the overlapping jib can be troublesome for
          > smaller sail trimmers (or larger ones for that matter :)).
          >
          > Downwind, the boat does reasonably well with the big main and winging the #3
          > jib in winds as low as 10-12 knts true. The larger jib would be more
          > effective if you don't use a flying sail. But for any extended distance
          > downwind in less than 14-16 knts true, we'll usually try to fly either a
          > symmetric or asymmetric spin since this makes a tremendous difference in
          > boat performance. The J/42 is quite stable with its keel weight and large
          > rudder, and if you use a sock and blanket the spin behind the main during
          > the douse, you can easily fly a spin in 18-25+ knts double-handed. This
          > will get you rolling along...
          >
          > Rod Deyo
          > J/42 Northern Lights
          > Seattle, WA
          >
          > From: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Keffer
          > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:33 PM
          > To: j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42
          >
          >
          > Hi, Ed
          >
          > The J/42 is a mainsail driven boat. The job of the foresail is to provide a
          > continuous lift for the mainsail, allowing a higher angle-of-attack, not to
          > provide sheer surface area. You'll be fine with the standard 100% headsail.
          > That's what I use 90% of the time when I'm not racing, and that's in the
          > Pacific Northwest where we suffer from light winds all summer.
          >
          > -tk
          >
          >
          > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Ed Cale
          > <e.cale@...<mailto:e.cale@...>> wrote:
          >
          > Hi TK,
          >
          > Thanks for the fast response and insights. I will certainly keep those
          > issues in mind. While I now live in Sonoma County, Northern California, I
          > plan to keep the boat in New England, as the cruising is far better than on
          > the west coast (IMHO). As such, I won't need A/C, a watermaker, or much
          > else to keep me happy.
          >
          > I do have one specific question about sails. As I said, I will be cruising,
          > not racing this boat, and will probably buy a new roller-furling genoa,
          > which will be my everyday headsail. Given that the winds are usually pretty
          > good in New England (north of CT), I'm assuming that a, say, 120% or 130%
          > sail would be about appropriate. Do you disagree? (BTW, both my wife and I
          > are in our mid-60s and in pretty good shape. However, we have no interest
          > in fighting a huge, overlapping headsail.)
          >
          > Thanks again for your valuable insights.
          >
          > Ed
          >
          >
          >
          > From: Thomas Keffer <tkeffer@...<mailto:tkeffer@...>>
          > To:
          > j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com<mailto:j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:53 PM
          > Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] Thinking of Buying J-42
          >
          > Hi, Ed (and welcome to the J/4X group).
          >
          > Mostly, the J/42 is a very well constructed boat with very few weak points.
          > However, like all boats, they have their problem spots. Here are the three
          > I'm aware of:
          >
          > 1. Corrosion in the port fuel tank due to contact with the hull. See Dave
          > Robinson's write
          > up<http://www.sailingsource.com/j42class/Tips/StarbirdSept2007.htm>.
          > 2. Water ingress into the chamber under the sole of the anchor locker.
          > 3. Rudder bearing problems, particularly with the early boats that used
          > Harken bearings. See Bill Stellin's write
          > up<http://www.sailingsource.com/j42class/Tips/JaywalkerApr2007.htm>. My boat
          > had Tides Marine bearings and also has had some problems.
          > Problems #1 and #2 are easy to spot and inexpensive to fix. Problem #3 is
          > also easy to spot (you'll experience play or high resistance if there is a
          > problem), but expensive to fix.
          >
          > Of course, there are also the usual wear-and-tear problems that any
          > competent marine survey should be able to outline.
          >
          > My personal philosophy is to look for a boat that has had minimal additions
          > --- no genset, no A/C, no watermaker --- and keep the weight down and the
          > performance up, but if you've browsed the message threads here you can see
          > that many others don't agree with me! :-)
          >
          > Are you on the East Coast?
          >
          > -tk
          >
          > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM, e.cale
          > <e.cale@...<mailto:e.cale@...>> wrote:
          >
          > Hello to the members of the J-4X Group!
          >
          > I've been sailing since the 1970s, and always admired J-boats. Years ago, as
          > a J-37 blew past me on a beat, I wanted to yell over to the skipper to turn
          > of the engine! Of course, it wasn't on.
          >
          > Anyway, I'm now in the wonderful position of considering a J-42. I would
          > like to know from current owners if there are any special mechanical or
          > construction issues I should look for in evaluating a potential purchase. I
          > will, obviously, be concerned with potential water penetration into the
          > core, possible delamination in the hull or deck, bonding issues between
          > bulkheads/furniture and the hull, and the condition of the engine. However,
          > are there any particular little bugs or issues that you would recommend I
          > check before making a commitment?
          >
          > I learned a lot from reading owners previous comments on shoal vs deep
          > draft, and I don't have a strong commitment, either way.
          >
          > I would appreciate any recommendations which you might have.
          >
          > Thanks in advance,
          > Ed Cale
          >
          > --
          > Tom Keffer
          > keffer@...<mailto:keffer@...>+1
          > 541-386-8891<tel:%2B1%20541-386-8891> (h)+1
          > 541-490-9507<tel:%2B1%20541-490-9507> (c)
          > Skype: tkeffer
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Tom Keffer
          > keffer@...<mailto:keffer@...>
          > +1 541-386-8891 (h)
          > +1 541-490-9507 (c)
          > Skype: tkeffer
          >
          >
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