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Re: [j4x-owners-group] electrical issues on J/42

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  • tony@shanomet.com
    Thank you Bill. Always Sage advise. Tony Sent from my iPhone
    Message 1 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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      Thank you Bill. Always Sage advise. Tony

      Sent from my iPhone

      On May 12, 2013, at 1:25 PM, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:

       

      With a link device you can see the battery state and amp usage no matter what is running or off.
      That is the beauty of the monitor.  If you see amps going out and you think everything is turned off, something is not.  It also monitors amps going in from chargers wind machines and solar panels.  I feel it is one of the most  necessary instruments on the boat.
      Bill Stellin  #6

      Sent from my iPad

      On May 12, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Anthony M Iacono" <tony@...> wrote:

       

      Thanks:
      I looked at the Link 2000 on line. It looks "similar" to what I have in attached photo, but provides more data. I assume you must have your inverter/charger on to read the amp usage. I most often sail with it off. Is there a way or can you determine the amp hour use and battery state  with the inverter/charger in the off position?  Tony

      From: John Burnett <jlb@...>
      Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 18:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
      To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] electrical issues on J/42

       

      You won't get the batteries fully charged running the engine ( unless you run it a very long time or have lithium batteries).
      The alternator (MC-512 really) will very the current to the batteries while it charges.   Also as the batteries "fill up"
      less current is sent to them.  An ampmeter which computes amp hours left
      will give you a better idea how the alternator is doing.  We have a link-2000 for the house banks and a link 10 for the engine.
      They both compute amp hours, though not perfectly.

      In recent years I give the batteries a vacation once a month.  We tie up to a dock and use shore power to get them
      completely charged.   The alternative is running the engine or genset a very long time.  Not too pleasant.

      I am putting 200 watts of solar on the bimini this spring.  We will see how many fewer hours we run the genset.

      cheers,
      John


      From: "tony@..." <tony@...>
      To: "j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com" <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 1:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] electrical issues on J/42

       
      Thanks Tom. Could be short runtime but I assume a hour 2 Times a day should be enough. It was when I first got the boat.  On the other hand I do have a lot more things on the boat that power now. 

      You mentioned setting, I wonder if there is an amount of output from the alternator which is "within range". Does anyone have any ideas on where I may be able to find out that information? 

      I recognize I am quite sophomoric when it comes to electrical issues. Its a result of never fully paying attention when my father tried desperately to teach me. Now I wish that I had.

      Tony
      Sent from my iPhone

      On May 2, 2013, at 4:19 PM, Thomas Keffer <tkeffer@...> wrote:

       
      If you're on the hook a lot, then it's entirely possible your alternator isn't fully charging the battery. It could be a wrong setting, corrosion in the field line or, most likely, that it's just not getting enough run time!

      -tk


      On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Anthony M Iacono <tony@...> wrote:
       
      [Attachment(s) from Anthony M Iacono included below]
      Thank you Tom,
      As a bit more info; I've been having the problem since the time I rarely get a shore charge. The last 6 weeks in the islands I was anchoring a lot, then in Newport where I live, I'm on a ball. So mostly I use the alternator to charge. The batteires are in a series, the Charger/inverter is a "10" it takes up a lot of the closet. I'll have to see if it could be mounted behind the door. Thanks

      Tony
      From: Thomas Keffer <tkeffer@...>
      Reply-To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:34:36 -0700
      To: <j4x-owners-group@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [j4x-owners-group] electrical issues on J/42

       
      Hi, Tony

      An ammeter / accurate voltmeter is essential for diagnosing these kinds of problems.

      The problem is likely one of three things:
      1. A bad battery. Unlikely as you have replaced them so many times. 
      2. Charging system not working properly. Seeing as how you have both a shore charger and an alternator, it's hard to see how both would go bad, but I suppose it's possible.
      3. Equipment drawing more amps than you think. Logic would lead you to this conclusion. I have a pretty similar setup except for a B&G autopilot, and it draws 3.5 amps when the pilot is idling to about 7 when it's active. It's not clear from your letter whether you have one or two 88 Ah batteries, but either way, you should be good for 10+ hours.
      In any case, it will be impossible to tell the difference between #2 and #3 without that ammeter!

      If you don't want to do a full install of an ammeter, you could get a clip-on style. Sears offers some pretty inexpensive ones, like this.

      -tk

      On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Anthony M Iacono <tony@...> wrote:
       
      Looking for some insight; 

      Over the past 4 seasons I've had to purchase new batteries three times. Each time I get Deka 700 MCA 505 CCA 88  amp hours at 20 hours Gel.
      It seems they run out too quickly on passages, sometimes nice wind, sailing 4 or so hours and the 'low voltage' signal comes on the B&G. One passage in 2010 I only got 45 min of sailing in before the signal, and the batteries were a year old. I realize I should be conservative with the  'toys' that is a Furono Auto helm, a RayMarine (upgraded for a Northstar last year) at the helm and Nav Table and the B&G, plus radio.
      I saw some conversation within our group awhle back about installing an amp meter. Good idea? Since I'm not strong on the subject, I have asked the Yard to check the output of the Alternator when the engine is running at about 1,500 RPM and to compare that to shore power charging to see of both are 'within specs' but I have no idea what in spec is?
      This is what I have: 
      Balmar alternator 14volts 100 Amps
      Balmr MC 512 regulator programmed  to Gel 
      Xantrex 10 (1000 watt 50 amp inverter charger  programmed to gel)
      The batteirs are set so two are house one starter. 
      Any thoughts on what I should do to test my system,  the value of an Amp meter, what I/the yard should look for. 
      Tony/Affinity 26







      --
      Tom Keffer
      keffer@...
      +1 541-386-8891 (h)
      +1 541-490-9507 (c)
      Skype: tkeffer



      --
      Tom Keffer
      keffer@...
      +1 541-386-8891 (h)
      +1 541-490-9507 (c)
      Skype: tkeffer


    • Frank Flannery
      To clarify, the link 2000 (or 1000 etc) comes with a shunt that you install on the battery ground cable just before the battery. Some additional wires come
      Message 2 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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        To clarify, the link 2000 (or 1000 etc) comes with a shunt that you
        install on the battery ground cable just before the battery. Some
        additional wires come off this shunt and run to the monitor. It may
        be advisable to buy the special wire bundle with the monitor if you
        have a long run, as if you have two banks, it is something like 8
        wires and they must be twisted together. For one bank, I think it is
        still 6 wires. Somehow the shunt magically measures the amp usage. I
        guess it probably isn't magic, but it works well.

        Frank

        On 5/12/13, William Stellin <wstellin@...> wrote:
        > With a link device you can see the battery state and amp usage no matter
        > what is running or off.
        > That is the beauty of the monitor. If you see amps going out and you think
        > everything is turned off, something is not. It also monitors amps going in
        > from chargers wind machines and solar panels. I feel it is one of the most
        > necessary instruments on the boat.
        > Bill Stellin #6
        >
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