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Re: Best Lions catchers

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  • djohnson5@kc.rr.com
    Dear Gary-san, I am glad that my book has been useful to you. You raise an interesting question. Although the Lions had many successful teams before Ito took
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 17, 2001
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      Dear Gary-san,

      I am glad that my book has been useful to you.

      You raise an interesting question. Although the Lions had many
      successful teams before Ito took over the catching duties, no Lions
      receiver won a Best Nine or Golden Glove designation until Ito
      garnered both in 1985.

      This isn't to say the Lions didn't haven't had other talented
      catchers. Dating back to the franchise's inception in 1951 (when the
      Nishitetsu Clippers merged with the Nishi-Nippon Pirates), several
      good catchers played for the Lions organization. Longtime Hankyu
      catcher Takeshi Hibino played for the Lions from 1951 to 1959,
      compiling a .235 batting average in 710 games. He was the team's
      starting catcher until 1957, when Hiromi Wada took over. Wada played
      his whole career for the Lions, compiling a .257 average in 1,565
      games from 1955 to 1972. He was the team's main catcher until 1966,
      although other catchers saw more action during two of those years.

      No other player served as the Lions main starting catcher for more
      than four seasons. Two star players caught for the Lions as they
      closed out their careers. Koichi Tabuchi mainly was a designated
      hitter when he played for the Lions from 1979 to 1984, but he caught
      25 games in 1979 and one game in 1984. Katsuya Nomura primarily was a
      catcher when he played in a total of 126 games for the Lions in 1979
      and 1980.

      --Dan(iel) Johnson



      -- In j-ball@y..., "Patrick Gary" <pwgary@h...> wrote:
      > I've been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven't posted
      anything
      > in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself.
      >
      > My name's Patrick Gary, and one of my hobbies is creating and
      playing with a
      > lot of teams using Diamond Mind Baseball. A couple of years ago I
      tried to
      > put together all-time great teams for each of the Japanese
      franchises, but
      > couldn't find enough information.
      >
      > Now with Daniel Johnson's book in hand, I've been able to make a
      pretty good
      > start at putting together something. I should have a league put
      together
      > that anyone interested can download within the next few weeks.
      >
      > However I'm running into what seems to be a fairly common problem.
      I can't
      > seem to find what position each player played. In fact I'm relying
      mostly on
      > Best Nine teams and Golden Glove awards to tell me where everyone
      played.
      > This has worked for most teams. I ran into my first big problem
      today, which
      > is trying to find a second catcher for Seibu. Obviously Tsutomu Ito
      is on
      > the team, but when I'm playing through an entire season there
      should be
      > another catcher.
      >
      > Aside from Ito, there has never been another catcher win a golden
      glove or
      > get named to a best nine team from the Lions. So, my question is,
      do any of
      > you know who the best Seibu Lions catcher before Ito was?
      >
      > Thanks for your help,
      > Pat
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
    • Patrick Gary
      I ve been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven t posted anything in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself. My name s Patrick Gary, and
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 17, 2001
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        I've been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven't posted anything
        in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself.

        My name's Patrick Gary, and one of my hobbies is creating and playing with a
        lot of teams using Diamond Mind Baseball. A couple of years ago I tried to
        put together all-time great teams for each of the Japanese franchises, but
        couldn't find enough information.

        Now with Daniel Johnson's book in hand, I've been able to make a pretty good
        start at putting together something. I should have a league put together
        that anyone interested can download within the next few weeks.

        However I'm running into what seems to be a fairly common problem. I can't
        seem to find what position each player played. In fact I'm relying mostly on
        Best Nine teams and Golden Glove awards to tell me where everyone played.
        This has worked for most teams. I ran into my first big problem today, which
        is trying to find a second catcher for Seibu. Obviously Tsutomu Ito is on
        the team, but when I'm playing through an entire season there should be
        another catcher.

        Aside from Ito, there has never been another catcher win a golden glove or
        get named to a best nine team from the Lions. So, my question is, do any of
        you know who the best Seibu Lions catcher before Ito was?

        Thanks for your help,
        Pat
        _________________________________________________________________
        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
      • aladdinsane
        Hi Pat! If you can read Japanese, you can use Pro Yakyu Kiroku Hakubutsukan, which has stats for tons of players (note: it is by no means complete, but it is
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 17, 2001
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          Hi Pat!

          If you can read Japanese, you can use Pro Yakyu Kiroku Hakubutsukan, which has stats for tons
          of players (note: it is by no means complete, but it is still very useful). You can find it at:
          http://www.lint.ne.jp/%7Elucky/brm/

          Let us know when you are done with the game and please post the URL to it. I think the level of
          interest in it will surprise you.

          And Dan, thanks for the catching rundowns for Seibu. Historical stuff like that gets my interest
          bigtime, so I really appreciate it.

          But getting back to Pat, I also recommend that you take a trip to Dan Latham's excellent site (it's
          in English) as well as look at the links posted in both the English and Japanese sections of my own
          homepage, since I think they can help you further. Good luck.
          http://home.earthlink.net/~aladdinsane/index.html


          Cheers,

          Gary
          http://home.earthlink.net/~aladdinsane/index.html
          http://www.japanesebaseball.com


          djohnson5@... wrote:

          > Dear Gary-san,
          >
          > I am glad that my book has been useful to you.
          >
          > You raise an interesting question. Although the Lions had many
          > successful teams before Ito took over the catching duties, no Lions
          > receiver won a Best Nine or Golden Glove designation until Ito
          > garnered both in 1985.
          >
          > This isn't to say the Lions didn't haven't had other talented
          > catchers. Dating back to the franchise's inception in 1951 (when the
          > Nishitetsu Clippers merged with the Nishi-Nippon Pirates), several
          > good catchers played for the Lions organization. Longtime Hankyu
          > catcher Takeshi Hibino played for the Lions from 1951 to 1959,
          > compiling a .235 batting average in 710 games. He was the team's
          > starting catcher until 1957, when Hiromi Wada took over. Wada played
          > his whole career for the Lions, compiling a .257 average in 1,565
          > games from 1955 to 1972. He was the team's main catcher until 1966,
          > although other catchers saw more action during two of those years.
          >
          > No other player served as the Lions main starting catcher for more
          > than four seasons. Two star players caught for the Lions as they
          > closed out their careers. Koichi Tabuchi mainly was a designated
          > hitter when he played for the Lions from 1979 to 1984, but he caught
          > 25 games in 1979 and one game in 1984. Katsuya Nomura primarily was a
          > catcher when he played in a total of 126 games for the Lions in 1979
          > and 1980.
          >
          > --Dan(iel) Johnson
          >
          > -
        • Robert Fitts
          Hi Pat I don t remember if we have spoken before or not but I run the APBA Japanese Baseball web page. There is an all-time great franchise disk posted there
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 18, 2001
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            Hi Pat
            I don't remember if we have spoken before or not but I run the APBA Japanese
            Baseball web page. There is an all-time great franchise disk posted there
            as well. I'm pretty busy these days but if you have questions, feel free to
            ask
            rob fitts
            www.robsjapanesecards.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Patrick Gary" <pwgary@...>
            To: <j-ball@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 9:47 PM
            Subject: [j-ball] Best Lions catchers


            > I've been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven't posted
            anything
            > in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself.
            >
            > My name's Patrick Gary, and one of my hobbies is creating and playing with
            a
            > lot of teams using Diamond Mind Baseball. A couple of years ago I tried to
            > put together all-time great teams for each of the Japanese franchises, but
            > couldn't find enough information.
            >
            > Now with Daniel Johnson's book in hand, I've been able to make a pretty
            good
            > start at putting together something. I should have a league put together
            > that anyone interested can download within the next few weeks.
            >
            > However I'm running into what seems to be a fairly common problem. I can't
            > seem to find what position each player played. In fact I'm relying mostly
            on
            > Best Nine teams and Golden Glove awards to tell me where everyone played.
            > This has worked for most teams. I ran into my first big problem today,
            which
            > is trying to find a second catcher for Seibu. Obviously Tsutomu Ito is on
            > the team, but when I'm playing through an entire season there should be
            > another catcher.
            >
            > Aside from Ito, there has never been another catcher win a golden glove or
            > get named to a best nine team from the Lions. So, my question is, do any
            of
            > you know who the best Seibu Lions catcher before Ito was?
            >
            > Thanks for your help,
            > Pat
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • jalbright@earthlink.net
            Pat: I m the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk on Rob Fitts site, with his generous help on several fronts, most notable in defensive
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 18, 2001
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              Pat:

              I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk on
              Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
              notable in defensive data. You can read at the download site
              http://www.robsjapanesecards.com/apbaFranchiseAllStars.htm how I put
              it together. My setup was a three year stretch for the franchise in
              question, and allowed a player to play for more than one franchise.
              Also, I normalized the data in my own fashion. I have a word file
              listing all the members of the twelve teams together with a few
              reserve players I put in a "minor league" which I can send you if you
              wish. If you have Baseball for Windows, feel free to download it and
              use the defensive data. If not email me, and I'll figure out how to
              get you the data for the guys on my teams.

              Jim Albright

              -- In j-ball@y..., "Patrick Gary" <pwgary@h...> wrote:
              > I've been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven't posted
              anything
              > in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself.
              >
              > My name's Patrick Gary, and one of my hobbies is creating and
              playing with a
              > lot of teams using Diamond Mind Baseball. A couple of years ago I
              tried to
              > put together all-time great teams for each of the Japanese
              franchises, but
              > couldn't find enough information.
              >
              > Now with Daniel Johnson's book in hand, I've been able to make a
              pretty good
              > start at putting together something. I should have a league put
              together
              > that anyone interested can download within the next few weeks.
              >
              > However I'm running into what seems to be a fairly common problem. I
              can't
              > seem to find what position each player played. In fact I'm relying
              mostly on
              > Best Nine teams and Golden Glove awards to tell me where everyone
              played.
              > This has worked for most teams. I ran into my first big problem
              today, which
              > is trying to find a second catcher for Seibu. Obviously Tsutomu Ito
              is on
              > the team, but when I'm playing through an entire season there should
              be
              > another catcher.
              >
              > Aside from Ito, there has never been another catcher win a golden
              glove or
              > get named to a best nine team from the Lions. So, my question is, do
              any of
              > you know who the best Seibu Lions catcher before Ito was?
              >
              > Thanks for your help,
              > Pat
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
            • jalbright@earthlink.net
              I should add that Carlos Bauer s All-Time Baseball Register would be helpful to you. ... on ... you ... posted ... I ... Ito ... should ... do
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 18, 2001
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                I should add that Carlos Bauer's All-Time Baseball Register would be
                helpful to you.

                --- In j-ball@y..., jalbright@e... wrote:
                > Pat:
                >
                > I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk
                on
                > Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
                > notable in defensive data. You can read at the download site
                > http://www.robsjapanesecards.com/apbaFranchiseAllStars.htm how I put
                > it together. My setup was a three year stretch for the franchise in
                > question, and allowed a player to play for more than one franchise.
                > Also, I normalized the data in my own fashion. I have a word file
                > listing all the members of the twelve teams together with a few
                > reserve players I put in a "minor league" which I can send you if
                you
                > wish. If you have Baseball for Windows, feel free to download it and
                > use the defensive data. If not email me, and I'll figure out how to
                > get you the data for the guys on my teams.
                >
                > Jim Albright
                >
                > -- In j-ball@y..., "Patrick Gary" <pwgary@h...> wrote:
                > > I've been lurking on this group for a long time, and haven't
                posted
                > anything
                > > in a couple of years. So let me reintroduce myself.
                > >
                > > My name's Patrick Gary, and one of my hobbies is creating and
                > playing with a
                > > lot of teams using Diamond Mind Baseball. A couple of years ago I
                > tried to
                > > put together all-time great teams for each of the Japanese
                > franchises, but
                > > couldn't find enough information.
                > >
                > > Now with Daniel Johnson's book in hand, I've been able to make a
                > pretty good
                > > start at putting together something. I should have a league put
                > together
                > > that anyone interested can download within the next few weeks.
                > >
                > > However I'm running into what seems to be a fairly common problem.
                I
                > can't
                > > seem to find what position each player played. In fact I'm relying
                > mostly on
                > > Best Nine teams and Golden Glove awards to tell me where everyone
                > played.
                > > This has worked for most teams. I ran into my first big problem
                > today, which
                > > is trying to find a second catcher for Seibu. Obviously Tsutomu
                Ito
                > is on
                > > the team, but when I'm playing through an entire season there
                should
                > be
                > > another catcher.
                > >
                > > Aside from Ito, there has never been another catcher win a golden
                > glove or
                > > get named to a best nine team from the Lions. So, my question is,
                do
                > any of
                > > you know who the best Seibu Lions catcher before Ito was?
                > >
                > > Thanks for your help,
                > > Pat
                > > _________________________________________________________________
                > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
              • Michael Westbay
                ... I was interested in getting the data there to add to my own database, but it looked like all of the necessary tools require MS Windows (which you couldn t
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 18, 2001
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                  Albright-san wrote:

                  > I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk on
                  > Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
                  > notable in defensive data. [...]
                  > [...] and I'll figure out how to
                  > get you the data for the guys on my teams.

                  I was interested in getting the data there to add to my own database, but it
                  looked like all of the necessary tools require MS Windows (which you couldn't
                  pay me to use) and didn't come with source code to tweak (I'm a programmer
                  and love Open Source - it's good for the community).

                  You wouldn't have that data in CSV (comma delimited) format would you?

                  --
                  Michael Westbay
                  Work: Beacon-IT http://www.beacon-it.co.jp/
                  Home: http://www.seaple.icc.ne.jp/~westbay
                  Commentary: http://www.japanesebaseball.com/
                • J Albright
                  Michael: The baseball for windows program allows you to print out the data, which I could then mail to you. However, since we re talking at least 50 pages,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 18, 2001
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                    Michael:

                    The baseball for windows program allows you to print out the data, which I could then mail to you.  However, since we're talking at least 50 pages, postage becomes something of an issue.  Also, obviously, I'd need your address.  If you're interested in this contact me off-list, and we'll see what we can work out.  The same would be true for my assessment of what the production would have been for the best Japanese players on a MLB stage, some of which is detailed in an article I wrote and is posted at http://www.bigbadbaseball.com/articles/albright_20000501.html
                    Let me know.

                    Jim Albright

                    Michael Westbay wrote:

                    Albright-san wrote:

                    > I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk on
                    > Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
                    > notable in defensive data.  [...]
                    > [...] and I'll figure out how to
                    > get you the data for the guys on my teams.

                    I was interested in getting the data there to add to my own database, but it
                    looked like all of the necessary tools require MS Windows (which you couldn't
                    pay me to use) and didn't come with source code to tweak (I'm a programmer
                    and love Open Source - it's good for the community).

                    You wouldn't have that data in CSV (comma delimited) format would you?

                    --
                    Michael Westbay
                    Work: Beacon-IT http://www.beacon-it.co.jp/
                    Home:           http://www.seaple.icc.ne.jp/~westbay
                    Commentary:     http://www.japanesebaseball.com/

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                  • J Albright
                    Patirick: I can try to print it to a file and get it to you that way, or mail you the 50-75 pages it will take to print it out in text. Postage may or may not
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 19, 2001
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                      Patirick:

                      I can try to print it to a file and get it to you that way, or mail you the 50-75 pages it will take to print it out in text.  Postage may or may not be an issue, but if we go that route, we can discuss it when I get your mailing address (off the group, I would suggest).  As for relievers, they didn't come in much strength until after the saves stat started to be reocrded in the 70's.  You can get the stats for leading relievers for 2000 at the NPB stats site at http://www.inter.co.jp/Baseball/index.html  There are a few, including Sasaki (now with Seattle), but not every team has had a star reliever better than their 9th or 10th best starter yet.

                      My normalization is based on taking the runs scored and runs allowed by the player's team and comparing that to the historical average for Japanese ball of 3.9 runs/game/team for the three seasons I rated the player.  I can forward a spreadsheet which has the standings, runs scored, runs allowed and adjustment factor if you wish.  Also, I don't know how DMB is set up to account for league averages, but I can send a composite season totals of AB, H, 2B, 3B, HR, SO, BB and maybe a few more stats if you want.

                      If you are interested in the exact methods of my adjustment to historical Japanese norms, I will be happy to explain them in detail off list.  I may even have an Excel spreadsheet which could be easily adapted to the purpose.  Also, for earlier seasons, you may want to consider projecting the stats to 130 games.  Anyway, let me know.

                      Unfortunately, I will be away for a week starting in a day or so, so don't worry if I don't respond quite as promptly.

                      Jim Albright

                      Patrick Gary wrote:

                      Jim,
                      I found your site a few weeks ago, but wasn't able to read the data files. I
                      don't have MS Baseball, but would love to see your data.

                      What did you do to normalize the stats? 3-year averages? Or something more,
                      like cross-era normalization?

                      Also, does anyone know where I can find good stats on relief pitching? The
                      Dimaond Mind website has the 1994-1997 Pro Yakyu seasons available for free
                      download, but outside of that, when a player wasn't eligable for an ERA
                      title, I can't find their season stats.

                      Thanks for your help,
                      P@
                      --- In j-ball@y..., jalbright@e... wrote:
                      >Pat:
                      >
                      >I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk
                      on
                      >Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
                      >notable in defensive data.  You can read at the download site
                      >http://www.robsjapanesecards.com/apbaFranchiseAllStars.htm how I put
                      >it together.  My setup was a three year stretch for the franchise in
                      >question, and allowed a player to play for more than one franchise. Also, I
                      >normalized the data in my own fashion.  I have a word file
                      >listing all the members of the twelve teams together with a few
                      >reserve players I put in a "minor league" which I can send you if
                      you
                      >wish. If you have Baseball for Windows, feel free to download it and
                      >use the defensive data.  If not email me, and I'll figure out how to
                      >get you the data for the guys on my teams.
                      >
                      >Jim Albright

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
                       

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                    • Patrick Gary
                      Jim, I found your site a few weeks ago, but wasn t able to read the data files. I don t have MS Baseball, but would love to see your data. What did you do to
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 19, 2001
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                        Jim,
                        I found your site a few weeks ago, but wasn't able to read the data files. I
                        don't have MS Baseball, but would love to see your data.

                        What did you do to normalize the stats? 3-year averages? Or something more,
                        like cross-era normalization?

                        Also, does anyone know where I can find good stats on relief pitching? The
                        Dimaond Mind website has the 1994-1997 Pro Yakyu seasons available for free
                        download, but outside of that, when a player wasn't eligable for an ERA
                        title, I can't find their season stats.

                        Thanks for your help,
                        P@
                        --- In j-ball@y..., jalbright@e... wrote:
                        >Pat:
                        >
                        >I'm the guy who put together the Japanese franchise all-stars disk
                        on
                        >Rob Fitts' site, with his generous help on several fronts, most
                        >notable in defensive data. You can read at the download site
                        >http://www.robsjapanesecards.com/apbaFranchiseAllStars.htm how I put
                        >it together. My setup was a three year stretch for the franchise in
                        >question, and allowed a player to play for more than one franchise. Also, I
                        >normalized the data in my own fashion. I have a word file
                        >listing all the members of the twelve teams together with a few
                        >reserve players I put in a "minor league" which I can send you if
                        you
                        >wish. If you have Baseball for Windows, feel free to download it and
                        >use the defensive data. If not email me, and I'll figure out how to
                        >get you the data for the guys on my teams.
                        >
                        >Jim Albright

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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