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RE: [iwar] China suspected in port deal

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  • Ozair
    Good news but I do not understand the relevance to Information Warfare. Regards, Ozair ... From: 7Pillars Partners / Cognitive Toolwerks
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2001
      Good news but I do not understand the relevance to Information Warfare.

      Regards,
      Ozair

      -----Original Message-----
      From: 7Pillars Partners / Cognitive Toolwerks
      [mailto:partners@...]
      Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:36 PM
      To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [iwar] China suspected in port deal


      China suspected in port deal
      By David R. Sands
      THE WASHINGTON TIMES
      China has clinched a deal to develop a major deep-sea commercial
      port in western Pakistan, giving Beijing a potential staging ground to
      exert influence along some of the worlds busiest shipping lanes
      flowing into and out of the Persian Gulf.
      The long-discussed project to create a major shipping station in
      the Pakistani coastal town of Gwadar opens a new front in the
      simmering rivalry between India and Pakistan and is the latest move by
      Beijing to project power throughout South Asia through a greatly
      expanded naval presence.
      Islamabad and Beijing have both denied Pakistani press reports
      that a secret understanding has been reached to allow Chinese naval
      vessels to dock at the port, which is expected to be completed in
      about six years. But both sides have talked openly of increasing
      "economic strategic ties" and the heavy Chinese involvement in the $1
      billion deal is a prime example.
      "Beijing has a history of piggybacking military cooperation onto
      commercial ventures," said Richard Fisher, an Asian specialist at the
      Jamestown Foundation. "From what we know now, this is a commercial
      deal, but it can easily set the stage for military cooperation in the
      future."
      China, which lacks a blue water port in the region, is also
      continuing its extensive aid to improve Pakistans road networks.
      Indian military analysts fear that the combination of the vastly
      improved Gwadar site and reliable overland links could give China a
      well-equipped staging ground on Indias western flank.
      Chinas role at Gwadar echoes similar concerns voiced when a Hong
      Kong firm with close ties to Chinas communist leadership won the
      leases to two ports near both ends of the Panama Canal in 1997.
      Clinton and Bush administration officials have said they have seen no
      interference by China in the operation of the canal, but a U.S.
      intelligence report in October 1999 called the leases "a potential
      threat" to U.S. interests.
      The Gwadar site also heightens the intense jockeying already
      under way among India, China and Pakistan for influence in the region.
      Pakistan staged naval exercises with Bangladesh in the Bay of
      Bengal on Indias east coast last month, followed almost immediately
      by a precedent-setting port call by three Pakistani naval vessels to
      the secretive military regime in Burma.
      The Texas-based private intelligence service Stratfor recently
      noted that Islamabad "is looking toward naval cooperation with Indias
      eastern neighbors to gain something it has not had since East Pakistan
      became Bangladesh -- the ability to flank India."
      A Pakistan Ministry of Defense source said of Gwadar: "The
      decision is a landmark as a tactical deterrent to the mighty Indian
      naval establishment in the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean."
      New Delhi has begun its own "Look to the East" campaign,
      cultivating better ties with Vietnam and Burma, while seeking its own
      flanking maneuver against Pakistan with improved relations with Iran
      and Israel.
      The United States has also made a pronounced shift toward India,
      even as Pakistans military and commercial ties to China have
      strengthened.
      The Washington Times in February reported that a CIA analysis
      has concluded Beijing continues to send "substantial" assistance to
      Pakistan for its ballistic missile program, and U.S. experts say they
      cannot rule out Chinese aid for Pakistans nuclear missile program as
      well.
      China has clashed repeatedly with the United States over Taiwan
      and with Southeast Asian nations over territorial claims in the South
      China Sea.
      In addition, Beijing has recently been courting dissident
      elements in Indonesia and island governments throughout the South
      Pacific, a direct challenge to the long-standing U.S. and Australian
      naval presence in the area.
      The Gwadar deal was formally announced during an extremely
      cordial four-day visit earlier this month by Chinese Prime Minister
      Zhu Rongji to Pakistan, a visit that produced a number of bilateral
      deals to increase cooperation in trade, rail transport and tourism.
      Pakistani Chief Executive Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who seized power
      in an October 1999 coup condemned by the United States, said: "I am
      confident that [the Zhu visit] will send out a strong signal to
      everyone of the continuing strength and durability of the multifaceted
      relationship between Pakistan and China."
      Just days after Mr. Zhu left, two Chinese naval vessels were
      received with high honors in Karachi, Pakistan, to celebrate 50 years
      of friendly relations between the two nations. Rear Adm. Zhang Yan,
      deputy commander of the North Sea China Fleet, met with top officers
      of the Pakistan navy and attended a dinner at the Pakistan Maritime
      Museum.
      A backwater fishing village with an airport but primitive road
      connections, Gwadar barely rates a mention in Pakistani tour guides.
      Plans to build a deep-sea port in the excellent and well-guarded
      harbor have foundered a number of times, most recently when an accord
      between Pakistan and Singapore announced in 1995 fell through.
      According to Pakistani press reports and the official Chinese
      Xinhua news agency, the Gwadar "megaproject" includes a deep-sea port
      and land connections to Karachi to the east and Ashgabat, the capital
      of Turkmenistan, to the northwest.
      In addition, a new dam will be built to ensure adequate water
      supplies to support an increased population and industrial activity.
      Pakistani military planners have long recognized the commercial
      and military significance of the site, which is near the mouth of the
      Gulf of Oman about 50 miles from Pakistans border with Iran. The port
      of Karachi currently handles about 98 percent of the countrys
      shipping and Pakistani military planners were stunned by the ease with
      which Indian forces bottled up the Pakistan navy in Karachi during a
      1999 standoff over Kashmir.
      Bhashyam Kasturi, writing in the September 1999 issue of the
      journal Strategic Affairs, noted that the commercial and military
      development of Gwadar would give the Pakistan navy the "capability to
      potentially choke the movement of oil and other trade" and move
      Pakistani naval assets farther away from Indian attack.
      "A single Agost 90B submarine operating out of Gwadar, armed with
      Exocet anti-ship missiles, could be an effective sea-denial platform
      in the Straits of Hormuz," Mr. Kasturi wrote.
      Indian officials privately say they are very aware of the Chinese
      activity both in Gwadar and on Indias eastern flank in the Bay of
      Bengal, both of which give Beijing the potential to influence and even
      choke off maritime trading routes critical to India and to the flow of
      oil and other goods throughout the Pacific Rim.
      The Gwadar project has remained a commercial venture, at least on
      paper, so the Indian government has not publicly aired its concerns
      about last months accords.
      But "India needs to carefully analyze whether Chinas action of
      increasing its presence in the Bay of Bengal through close links with
      [Burma] and its decision to help Pakistan with [Gwadar] are merely
      defensive or whether they are designed to assert a military presence
      encircling India," according to a recent analysis in the trade
      publication Alexanders Oil and Gas Connections.



      ------------------
      http://all.net/

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • c.b r
      hi ozair: Can you tell me which post you are refering to? I have had terrible networl problemsss so I have sent o I have written a few-one that may not have
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 1, 2001
        hi ozair: Can you tell me which post you are refering
        to? I have had terrible networl problemsss so I have
        sent o I have written a few-one that may not have
        gone online as of yet. The grand question still is
        what is INFOSEC, or IWAR and in America there is
        still matters of great consternation and terriffic
        disagrement. Even sub agencies within the defense
        infrastructure cannot agree on a definition, let alone
        how to fight it.
        It appears that you were speaking of plain and simple
        cyber "disinformatzia"- the oldest russian trick in
        the book- misdirection of your adversary. Please let
        me know if I have misunderstod. If you add these
        elements together, a yet to be defined, new and
        pernicious warfare is in the wind. It almost makes
        me long for the days of plain old cold war.
        Predicitaability was nice.


        The first order of business for all nations is to
        agree on what INFOWARFARE is and then put into action
        a very basic offensivre stratigies.
        Regards,

        Elizabeth r.

        "fastflyer28@yahoo,com-new computer inbound soon
        should improve my net ability.
        =============================
        --- Ozair <ozair_rasheed@...> wrote:
        > Good news but I do not understand the relevance to
        > Information Warfare.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Ozair
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: 7Pillars Partners / Cognitive Toolwerks
        > [mailto:partners@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:36 PM
        > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [iwar] China suspected in port deal
        >
        >
        > China suspected in port deal
        > By David R. Sands
        > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
        > China has clinched a deal to develop a major
        > deep-sea commercial
        > port in western Pakistan, giving Beijing a potential
        > staging ground to
        > exert influence along some of the worlds busiest
        > shipping lanes
        > flowing into and out of the Persian Gulf.
        > The long-discussed project to create a major
        > shipping station in
        > the Pakistani coastal town of Gwadar opens a new
        > front in the
        > simmering rivalry between India and Pakistan and is
        > the latest move by
        > Beijing to project power throughout South Asia
        > through a greatly
        > expanded naval presence.
        > Islamabad and Beijing have both denied Pakistani
        > press reports
        > that a secret understanding has been reached to
        > allow Chinese naval
        > vessels to dock at the port, which is expected to be
        > completed in
        > about six years. But both sides have talked openly
        > of increasing
        > "economic strategic ties" and the heavy Chinese
        > involvement in the $1
        > billion deal is a prime example.
        > "Beijing has a history of piggybacking military
        > cooperation onto
        > commercial ventures," said Richard Fisher, an Asian
        > specialist at the
        > Jamestown Foundation. "From what we know now, this
        > is a commercial
        > deal, but it can easily set the stage for military
        > cooperation in the
        > future."
        > China, which lacks a blue water port in the region,
        > is also
        > continuing its extensive aid to improve Pakistans
        > road networks.
        > Indian military analysts fear that the combination
        > of the vastly
        > improved Gwadar site and reliable overland links
        > could give China a
        > well-equipped staging ground on Indias western
        > flank.
        > Chinas role at Gwadar echoes similar concerns voiced
        > when a Hong
        > Kong firm with close ties to Chinas communist
        > leadership won the
        > leases to two ports near both ends of the Panama
        > Canal in 1997.
        > Clinton and Bush administration officials have said
        > they have seen no
        > interference by China in the operation of the canal,
        > but a U.S.
        > intelligence report in October 1999 called the
        > leases "a potential
        > threat" to U.S. interests.
        > The Gwadar site also heightens the intense jockeying
        > already
        > under way among India, China and Pakistan for
        > influence in the region.
        > Pakistan staged naval exercises with Bangladesh in
        > the Bay of
        > Bengal on Indias east coast last month, followed
        > almost immediately
        > by a precedent-setting port call by three Pakistani
        > naval vessels to
        > the secretive military regime in Burma.
        > The Texas-based private intelligence service
        > Stratfor recently
        > noted that Islamabad "is looking toward naval
        > cooperation with Indias
        > eastern neighbors to gain something it has not had
        > since East Pakistan
        > became Bangladesh -- the ability to flank India."
        > A Pakistan Ministry of Defense source said of
        > Gwadar: "The
        > decision is a landmark as a tactical deterrent to
        > the mighty Indian
        > naval establishment in the Arabian Sea and the
        > Indian Ocean."
        > New Delhi has begun its own "Look to the East"
        > campaign,
        > cultivating better ties with Vietnam and Burma,
        > while seeking its own
        > flanking maneuver against Pakistan with improved
        > relations with Iran
        > and Israel.
        > The United States has also made a pronounced shift
        > toward India,
        > even as Pakistans military and commercial ties to
        > China have
        > strengthened.
        > The Washington Times in February reported that a CIA
        > analysis
        > has concluded Beijing continues to send
        > "substantial" assistance to
        > Pakistan for its ballistic missile program, and U.S.
        > experts say they
        > cannot rule out Chinese aid for Pakistans nuclear
        > missile program as
        > well.
        > China has clashed repeatedly with the United States
        > over Taiwan
        > and with Southeast Asian nations over territorial
        > claims in the South
        > China Sea.
        > In addition, Beijing has recently been courting
        > dissident
        > elements in Indonesia and island governments
        > throughout the South
        > Pacific, a direct challenge to the long-standing
        > U.S. and Australian
        > naval presence in the area.
        > The Gwadar deal was formally announced during an
        > extremely
        > cordial four-day visit earlier this month by Chinese
        > Prime Minister
        > Zhu Rongji to Pakistan, a visit that produced a
        > number of bilateral
        > deals to increase cooperation in trade, rail
        > transport and tourism.
        > Pakistani Chief Executive Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who
        > seized power
        > in an October 1999 coup condemned by the United
        > States, said: "I am
        > confident that [the Zhu visit] will send out a
        > strong signal to
        > everyone of the continuing strength and durability
        > of the multifaceted
        > relationship between Pakistan and China."
        > Just days after Mr. Zhu left, two Chinese naval
        > vessels were
        > received with high honors in Karachi, Pakistan, to
        > celebrate 50 years
        > of friendly relations between the two nations. Rear
        > Adm. Zhang Yan,
        > deputy commander of the North Sea China Fleet, met
        > with top officers
        > of the Pakistan navy and attended a dinner at the
        > Pakistan Maritime
        > Museum.
        > A backwater fishing village with an airport but
        > primitive road
        > connections, Gwadar barely rates a mention in
        > Pakistani tour guides.
        > Plans to build a deep-sea port in the excellent and
        > well-guarded
        > harbor have foundered a number of times, most
        > recently when an accord
        > between Pakistan and Singapore announced in 1995
        > fell through.
        > According to Pakistani press reports and the
        > official Chinese
        > Xinhua news agency, the Gwadar "megaproject"
        > includes a deep-sea port
        > and land connections to Karachi to the east and
        > Ashgabat, the capital
        > of Turkmenistan, to the northwest.
        > In addition, a new dam will be built to ensure
        > adequate water
        > supplies to support an increased population and
        > industrial activity.
        > Pakistani military planners have long recognized the
        > commercial
        > and military significance of the site, which is near
        > the mouth of the
        > Gulf of Oman about 50 miles from Pakistans border
        > with Iran. The port
        > of Karachi currently handles about 98 percent of the
        > countrys
        > shipping and Pakistani military planners were
        > stunned by the ease with
        > which Indian forces bottled up the Pakistan navy in
        > Karachi during a
        > 1999 standoff over Kashmir.
        > Bhashyam Kasturi, writing in the September 1999
        > issue of the
        > journal Strategic Affairs, noted that the commercial
        > and military
        > development of Gwadar would give the Pakistan navy
        > the "capability to
        >
        === message truncated ===



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      • Ozair
        Elizabeth, I think I can safely speak these words about IWAR-- but Fred, do not hesitate to correct me if I am wrong--. I shall answer your questions point by
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2001
          Elizabeth,

          I think I can safely speak these words about IWAR-- but Fred, do not
          hesitate to correct me if I am wrong--. I shall answer your questions point
          by point

          Q. What post am I referring to
          The one that is showing up at the bottom of this mail.

          Comment; delayed mail
          I am sure that all posts are delivered within minutes of them being sent.

          Comment; definition of IWAR and INFOSEC
          For the purpose of this group we have defined the IWAR to be closely related
          to the hack attacks, DOS and such events happening around the world.
          Essentially, we just like to see what kind of damages are being done on the
          internet (courtesy Fred and his "news" mails, Thanks Fred). In the past I
          tried to broaden the perspective to age old art of "Deception and deceit"
          however little interest was shown. If you do happen to read all the previous
          mails of this group at the following link (you shall have to register
          yourself if you are not already a member of yahoogroups.com)
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iwar/message/497 (and related messages)
          you shall find some discussion on "what is Information Warfare". I hope this
          shall help you to understand as to why I said that this particular mail
          (scroll down to see the news item) is not part of the "IWAR" as we call it.

          Comment; "disinformation"
          I am not sure I understand your question, because some parts of your e-mail
          were missing.

          Wish: Predictability
          Predictability = stability = stagnation = boredom
          however there is a corollary as well
          Change = excitement = chaos = worries

          I however am in favor of moderation in change, for it allows one to catch
          up, enjoy life and yet adapt to the changing environment (sphere of
          operations).

          Suggestion: Agreement of Info Warfare
          I am not sure all countries can
          1. agree on what Info war is
          2. take common offensive strategies
          for the sole reason
          One man's bacon is another man's poison. Excuse the use of a cliché but it
          serves the purpose

          There shall always be enemies for anyone to know the meaning of friend,
          always shall be bad for us to appreciate good (or vice versa).


          Regards,
          Ozair


          -----Original Message-----
          From: c.b r [mailto:fastflyer28@...]
          Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 4:15 PM
          To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [iwar] China suspected in port deal




          hi ozair: Can you tell me which post you are refering
          to? I have had terrible networl problemsss so I have
          sent o I have written a few-one that may not have
          gone online as of yet. The grand question still is
          what is INFOSEC, or IWAR and in America there is
          still matters of great consternation and terriffic
          disagrement. Even sub agencies within the defense
          infrastructure cannot agree on a definition, let alone
          how to fight it.
          It appears that you were speaking of plain and simple
          cyber "disinformatzia"- the oldest russian trick in
          the book- misdirection of your adversary. Please let
          me know if I have misunderstod. If you add these
          elements together, a yet to be defined, new and
          pernicious warfare is in the wind. It almost makes
          me long for the days of plain old cold war.
          Predicitaability was nice.


          The first order of business for all nations is to
          agree on what INFOWARFARE is and then put into action
          a very basic offensivre stratigies.
          Regards,

          Elizabeth r.

          "fastflyer28@yahoo,com-new computer inbound soon
          should improve my net ability.
          =============================
          --- Ozair <ozair_rasheed@...> wrote:
          > Good news but I do not understand the relevance to
          > Information Warfare.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Ozair
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: 7Pillars Partners / Cognitive Toolwerks
          > [mailto:partners@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:36 PM
          > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [iwar] China suspected in port deal
          >
          >
          > China suspected in port deal
          > By David R. Sands
          > THE WASHINGTON TIMES
          > China has clinched a deal to develop a major
          > deep-sea commercial
          > port in western Pakistan, giving Beijing a potential
          > staging ground to
          > exert influence along some of the worlds busiest
          > shipping lanes
          > flowing into and out of the Persian Gulf.
          > The long-discussed project to create a major
          > shipping station in
          > the Pakistani coastal town of Gwadar opens a new
          > front in the
          > simmering rivalry between India and Pakistan and is
          > the latest move by
          > Beijing to project power throughout South Asia
          > through a greatly
          > expanded naval presence.
          > Islamabad and Beijing have both denied Pakistani
          > press reports
          > that a secret understanding has been reached to
          > allow Chinese naval
          > vessels to dock at the port, which is expected to be
          > completed in
          > about six years. But both sides have talked openly
          > of increasing
          > "economic strategic ties" and the heavy Chinese
          > involvement in the $1
          > billion deal is a prime example.
          > "Beijing has a history of piggybacking military
          > cooperation onto
          > commercial ventures," said Richard Fisher, an Asian
          > specialist at the
          > Jamestown Foundation. "From what we know now, this
          > is a commercial
          > deal, but it can easily set the stage for military
          > cooperation in the
          > future."
          > China, which lacks a blue water port in the region,
          > is also
          > continuing its extensive aid to improve Pakistans
          > road networks.
          > Indian military analysts fear that the combination
          > of the vastly
          > improved Gwadar site and reliable overland links
          > could give China a
          > well-equipped staging ground on Indias western
          > flank.
          > Chinas role at Gwadar echoes similar concerns voiced
          > when a Hong
          > Kong firm with close ties to Chinas communist
          > leadership won the
          > leases to two ports near both ends of the Panama
          > Canal in 1997.
          > Clinton and Bush administration officials have said
          > they have seen no
          > interference by China in the operation of the canal,
          > but a U.S.
          > intelligence report in October 1999 called the
          > leases "a potential
          > threat" to U.S. interests.
          > The Gwadar site also heightens the intense jockeying
          > already
          > under way among India, China and Pakistan for
          > influence in the region.
          > Pakistan staged naval exercises with Bangladesh in
          > the Bay of
          > Bengal on Indias east coast last month, followed
          > almost immediately
          > by a precedent-setting port call by three Pakistani
          > naval vessels to
          > the secretive military regime in Burma.
          > The Texas-based private intelligence service
          > Stratfor recently
          > noted that Islamabad "is looking toward naval
          > cooperation with Indias
          > eastern neighbors to gain something it has not had
          > since East Pakistan
          > became Bangladesh -- the ability to flank India."
          > A Pakistan Ministry of Defense source said of
          > Gwadar: "The
          > decision is a landmark as a tactical deterrent to
          > the mighty Indian
          > naval establishment in the Arabian Sea and the
          > Indian Ocean."
          > New Delhi has begun its own "Look to the East"
          > campaign,
          > cultivating better ties with Vietnam and Burma,
          > while seeking its own
          > flanking maneuver against Pakistan with improved
          > relations with Iran
          > and Israel.
          > The United States has also made a pronounced shift
          > toward India,
          > even as Pakistans military and commercial ties to
          > China have
          > strengthened.
          > The Washington Times in February reported that a CIA
          > analysis
          > has concluded Beijing continues to send
          > "substantial" assistance to
          > Pakistan for its ballistic missile program, and U.S.
          > experts say they
          > cannot rule out Chinese aid for Pakistans nuclear
          > missile program as
          > well.
          > China has clashed repeatedly with the United States
          > over Taiwan
          > and with Southeast Asian nations over territorial
          > claims in the South
          > China Sea.
          > In addition, Beijing has recently been courting
          > dissident
          > elements in Indonesia and island governments
          > throughout the South
          > Pacific, a direct challenge to the long-standing
          > U.S. and Australian
          > naval presence in the area.
          > The Gwadar deal was formally announced during an
          > extremely
          > cordial four-day visit earlier this month by Chinese
          > Prime Minister
          > Zhu Rongji to Pakistan, a visit that produced a
          > number of bilateral
          > deals to increase cooperation in trade, rail
          > transport and tourism.
          > Pakistani Chief Executive Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who
          > seized power
          > in an October 1999 coup condemned by the United
          > States, said: "I am
          > confident that [the Zhu visit] will send out a
          > strong signal to
          > everyone of the continuing strength and durability
          > of the multifaceted
          > relationship between Pakistan and China."
          > Just days after Mr. Zhu left, two Chinese naval
          > vessels were
          > received with high honors in Karachi, Pakistan, to
          > celebrate 50 years
          > of friendly relations between the two nations. Rear
          > Adm. Zhang Yan,
          > deputy commander of the North Sea China Fleet, met
          > with top officers
          > of the Pakistan navy and attended a dinner at the
          > Pakistan Maritime
          > Museum.
          > A backwater fishing village with an airport but
          > primitive road
          > connections, Gwadar barely rates a mention in
          > Pakistani tour guides.
          > Plans to build a deep-sea port in the excellent and
          > well-guarded
          > harbor have foundered a number of times, most
          > recently when an accord
          > between Pakistan and Singapore announced in 1995
          > fell through.
          > According to Pakistani press reports and the
          > official Chinese
          > Xinhua news agency, the Gwadar "megaproject"
          > includes a deep-sea port
          > and land connections to Karachi to the east and
          > Ashgabat, the capital
          > of Turkmenistan, to the northwest.
          > In addition, a new dam will be built to ensure
          > adequate water
          > supplies to support an increased population and
          > industrial activity.
          > Pakistani military planners have long recognized the
          > commercial
          > and military significance of the site, which is near
          > the mouth of the
          > Gulf of Oman about 50 miles from Pakistans border
          > with Iran. The port
          > of Karachi currently handles about 98 percent of the
          > countrys
          > shipping and Pakistani military planners were
          > stunned by the ease with
          > which Indian forces bottled up the Pakistan navy in
          > Karachi during a
          > 1999 standoff over Kashmir.
          > Bhashyam Kasturi, writing in the September 1999
          > issue of the
          > journal Strategic Affairs, noted that the commercial
          > and military
          > development of Gwadar would give the Pakistan navy
          > the "capability to
          >
          === message truncated ===



          __________________________________________________
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          ------------------
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        • Fred Cohen
          Per the message sent by Ozair: ... I think that this material is somehow related to information warfare - particularly when it has to do with how nation states
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 1, 2001
            Per the message sent by Ozair:

            ...
            > Comment; definition of IWAR and INFOSEC
            > For the purpose of this group we have defined the IWAR to be closely related
            > to the hack attacks, DOS and such events happening around the world.

            I think that this material is somehow related to information warfare -
            particularly when it has to do with how nation states are acting with
            regards to each other. Let's call it information conflict between
            nations... I do include propaganda and disinformation in my view of
            information warfare. If you want to discuss the definition, you might
            begin by looking at the information warfare archives at all.net...

            http://all.net/
            => Information Warfare
            => 1995-6 IW list
            => Refs

            This includes several definitions by different people and citations to
            related works.

            > Suggestion: Agreement of Info Warfare
            > I am not sure all countries can
            > 1. agree on what Info war is
            > 2. take common offensive strategies
            > for the sole reason
            > One man's bacon is another man's poison. Excuse the use of a clich� but it
            > serves the purpose

            Very nice subtle use of the laws of Kosher Ozair (both Moslems and Jews
            have laws against eating pork).

            ...
            FC

            --
            Fred Cohen at Sandia National Laboratories at tel:925-294-2087 fax:925-294-1225
            Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net - fc@... - tel/fax:925-454-0171
            Fred Cohen - Practitioner in Residence - The University of New Haven
            This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve.
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          • Ozair
            Very nice subtle use of the laws of Kosher Ozair (both Moslems and Jews have laws against eating pork). ... FC Never meant it along the lines you were thinking
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 3, 2001
              Very nice subtle use of the laws of Kosher Ozair (both Moslems and Jews
              have laws against eating pork).

              ...
              FC

              Never meant it along the lines you were thinking Fred. Just meant that
              not everyone can eat sushi.

              Regards,
              Ozair
            • c.b r
              shusi-why eat raw fish? I agree! BethR ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 3, 2001
                shusi-why eat raw fish? I agree! BethR
                --- Ozair <ozair_rasheed@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Very nice subtle use of the laws of Kosher Ozair
                > (both Moslems and Jews
                > have laws against eating pork).
                >
                > ...
                > FC
                >
                > Never meant it along the lines you were thinking
                > Fred. Just meant that
                > not everyone can eat sushi.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Ozair
                >
                >


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