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RE: [iwar] RE: China virus

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  • Rob Rosenberger
    Oh, I wanted to blow the story wide open at first. I detest the Chinese regime. We off d the Rosenbergs for this kind of stuff, you know. And I certainly
    Message 1 of 253 , Apr 5, 2001
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      Oh, I wanted to blow the story wide open at first. I detest the Chinese
      regime. We off'd the Rosenbergs for this kind of stuff, you know.

      And I certainly wanted to revel in the irony. AV firms spit on people who
      distribute virus collections for profit, only to get caught distributing
      virus collections for profit -- promised by a low-tech communist regime
      known for rampant software piracy. Man, I wallow like a pig in the
      industry's sty.

      Except I couldn't nail it to an ethical violation. I detest the Chinese
      regime, but the whole thing fits the pattern of a pure marketing decision.
      China's demand for viruses, vendors' willingness to comply, CARO's desire to
      glue the AV cartel back together, and the individuals who made it all happen
      ... everything boiled down to The Almighty Dollar.

      I thought about blowing the story open (a) for the scoop and (b) to expose
      the irony. Yet if I did so, the cartel would line up as one and declare me
      the common enemy.

      On the other hand, if it festered long enough, I knew it would eventually
      wind up in the press *anyway*. Richard Clarke, General Eberhart,
      Congressman Weldon, they all fear the cyber-Chinese. You can imagine the
      smile on my face when Clarke said (and I quote) "oh shit!" upon learning of
      it. He'd only just come away from his first White House shindig with the
      antivirus industry, where he begged them for new ideas to protect the U.S.
      from Chinese viruses.

      I again thought about blowing the story open (a) for the scoop and (b) to
      make Clarke squirm. Yet again, if I did so, the cartel would line up as one
      and declare me the common enemy. On the other hand, if it continued to
      fester, I knew it would eventually wind up in the press *anyway*. Once the
      politicians know about it, it's just a matter of time...

      My silence showed the AV cartel how little I cared about their debacle from
      an ethical standpoint. And, of course, when it *did* blow up in the
      cartel's face, I could use my own silence to debunk the "omigod here comes
      the infowar" crowd. (Um, no offense.)

      Speaking of the "omigod here comes the infowar" crowd... Here's my take on
      the timeline of events:

      * 199? ???: individual AV firms start giving viruses to Chinese
      * 1999 May: U.S. blows up Chinese embassy by mistake
      * 1999 Jun: China declares cyber-war on U.S., nukes the Internet
      with AV-supplied superviruses
      * 1999 Sep: AV firms combine and start giving viruses to Chinese
      as a cartel rather than as individuals
      * 2000 Dec: White House invites AV cartel to discuss ways to stop
      China from nuking the Internet
      * 2001 Jan: White House learns AV cartel gives viruses to Chinese
      * 2001 Mar: Wall Street Journal exposes AV cartel for giving
      viruses to Chinese
      * 2001 Apr: China declares cyber-war on U.S. over EP-3, nukes
      the Internet with AV-supplied superviruses

      Well, okay, "1999 Jun" didn't happen. "2001 Apr" hasn't yet happened, but
      it MIGHT! God, I feel like I miss the Internet already. Everyone update
      your Chinese antivirus software.

      I never expected this story to blow open in the Wall Street Journal. And
      I'll tell you this: I didn't rat out the industry. Someone has bigger balls
      than mine...

      Rob

      -----Original Message-----
      From:
      sentto-279987-1092-986382505-junkmail=barnowl.com@...
      [mailto:sentto-279987-1092-986382505-junkmail=barnowl.com@...
      t.com]On Behalf Of Fred Cohen
      Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2001 6:08 AM
      To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [iwar] RE: China virus


      Where have you been Rob? You haven't posted articles on this for the
      last year? But seriously... what specific issue are you referring to
      in your point?

      FC
      Per the message sent by Rob Rosenberger:

      > Where have you been, Fred? This has been going on since 1999 and I
      learned
      > about it months ago. Didn't you see the WSJ expose on Friday? Look for
      my
      > previous iwar email...

      > Rob

      --
      Fred Cohen at Sandia National Laboratories at tel:925-294-2087
      fax:925-294-1225
      Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net - fc@... -
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      Fred Cohen - Practitioner in Residence - The University of New Haven
      This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to
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      PGP keys: https://all.net/pgpkeys.html - Have a great day!!!


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    • Glenn Williamson
      Fred and all, I understand the need for information as it relates to IWAR, but I do not see how a story that pertains to billions of burgers served at
      Message 253 of 253 , Sep 7, 2001
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        Fred and all,

        I understand the need for information as it relates to IWAR, but I do not
        see how a story that pertains to billions of burgers served at
        establishments throughout the world involves IWAR. I may be wrong, but what
        one perceives as IWAR now encompasses burger joints and how they get their
        product to market. I am not in agreement with certain companies and the way
        they conduct business, but does it relate to IWAR, unless by generating this
        information across communication channels, one considers it Information
        Warfare and gaining support for Anti-McDonald's Day.

        Ok, that was my 2 cents, I will not say they are right, no offence to
        Mcd's but there will always be people who protest. Does it = IWAR or
        Information Propaganda.

        Glenn Williamson


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Fred Cohen [mailto:fc@...]
        Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:24 PM
        To: Information Warfare Mailing List
        Subject: [iwar] news



        ___________
        September 2001


        CALL FOR ACTION ON TUESDAY OCTOBER 16th - WORLDWIDE ANTI-McDONALD'S DAY
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