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Built-in double ovens

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  • Myron & Marilyn Weintraub
    I am looking for a new oven and am considering getting a built-in double oven rather than two separate built-in ovens. Does anyone have any experience /
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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      I am looking for a new oven and am considering getting a built-in double oven rather than two separate built-in ovens. Does anyone have any experience / recommendations / warnings? The double oven I've seen (only online, haven't been to the stores yet) is from Sauter. I'm not really familiar with the brand except to recognize the name. I saw some cryptic warning on another website (importers from the US) about steering clear of Sauter built-in ovens, but there was no reason given. I've searched the archives of this group and saw some discussion of built-in ovens, but double ovens weren't specifically mentioned. If no one has information specific to double ovens, does anyone have any general recommendations on brands to steer clear of or brands that are highly recommended? In the archives, I saw some favorable discussion of Siemens. I currently have a Bosch single oven and have been satisfied with it, but I do want to look at all my options.

      Any and all comments welcomed! Thank you!
      Marilyn Weintraub

    • Karen Eisenberg
      I am currently dealing with the same decision. What I have heard -- and much of this is just hearsay, I haven t had time yet to do much independent research
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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        I am currently dealing with the same decision.  What I have heard -- and much of this is just hearsay, I haven't had time yet to do much independent research -- is that 1) the double oven is a bit smaller than two ovens, but not much, so you don't save much space vs. buying two ovens; 2) the double oven is at least as expensive as two totally separate ovens; 3) the double unit has one smaller oven, so you have to decide that you can deal with one unit that is about two-thirds the size of an already-smallish oven; 4) you can't use both parts of it at the same time; and 5) some poskim question its kashrut, assuming that you use one section for meat and one for dairy. 
         
        I'd really like to hear from other people on this because as I said I need to make this decision soon myself.  I have a GE 30 inch stove that I brought from the US and I am considering selling it when I renovate my new kitchen and putting in a double oven and separate cooktop. 
         
        Karen Eisenberg

         
        On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Myron & Marilyn Weintraub <mplusm1999@...> wrote:


        I am looking for a new oven and am considering getting a built-in double oven rather than two separate built-in ovens. Does anyone have any experience / recommendations / warnings? The double oven I've seen (only online, haven't been to the stores yet) is from Sauter. I'm not really familiar with the brand except to recognize the name. I saw some cryptic warning on another website (importers from the US) about steering clear of Sauter built-in ovens, but there was no reason given. I've searched the archives of this group and saw some discussion of built-in ovens, but double ovens weren't specifically mentioned. If no one has information specific to double ovens, does anyone have any general recommendations on brands to steer clear of or brands that are highly recommended? In the archives, I saw some favorable discussion of Siemens. I currently have a Bosch single oven and have been satisfied with it, but I do want to look at all my options.

        Any and all comments welcomed! Thank you!
        Marilyn Weintraub


      • geoffrey mendelson
        ... Two caveats about selling a used stove imported from the U.S.: If it has a pilot light, you can t. It s now illegal to use in Israel. The next time you
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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          On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Karen Eisenberg wrote:
          >
          > I'd really like to hear from other people on this because as I said
          > I need to make this decision soon myself. I have a GE 30 inch stove
          > that I brought from the US and I am considering selling it when I
          > renovate my new kitchen and putting in a double oven and separate
          > cooktop.


          Two caveats about selling a used stove imported from the U.S.:

          If it has a pilot light, you can't. It's now illegal to use in Israel.
          The next time you have a gas inspection (mandatory every 5 years),
          they will refuse to give you a "license" (their word) unless you have
          the pilot light disabled.

          If it has been less than 5 years since you cleared customs for it, you
          have to pay the taxes you were excempted from at a rate of 20% off for
          each complete year since then. The age of the stove does not matter,
          it's time in the country.

          Geoff.

          --
          geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
          Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendelson@...
        • Karen Eisenberg
          Thanks, Geoff. It doesn t have a pilot light. And with all due respect, but if I sell it to one of my neighbors, how would meches ever find out? It s not
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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            Thanks, Geoff.  It doesn't have a pilot light.  And with all due respect, but if I sell it to one of my neighbors, how would meches ever find out?   It's not like a car where ownership has to be transferred etc.  I'm not looking to make a profit, just to sell it for what I paid for it.
             
            Karen

            On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:31 PM, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson@...> wrote:



            On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Karen Eisenberg wrote:
            >
            > I'd really like to hear from other people on this because as I said
            > I need to make this decision soon myself. I have a GE 30 inch stove
            > that I brought from the US and I am considering selling it when I
            > renovate my new kitchen and putting in a double oven and separate
            > cooktop.

            Two caveats about selling a used stove imported from the U.S.:

            If it has a pilot light, you can't. It's now illegal to use in Israel.
            The next time you have a gas inspection (mandatory every 5 years),
            they will refuse to give you a "license" (their word) unless you have
            the pilot light disabled.

            If it has been less than 5 years since you cleared customs for it, you
            have to pay the taxes you were excempted from at a rate of 20% off for
            each complete year since then. The age of the stove does not matter,
            it's time in the country.

            Geoff.

            --
            geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
            Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendelson@...


          • Caroline Tabach
            I have 2 separate ovens and am satisfied with this setup. It depends on your use and you should examine how you generally bake and roast etc. Since I work
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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              I have 2 separate ovens and am satisfied with this setup.
              It depends on your use and you should examine how you generally bake and roast etc.
              Since I work outside the house, I tend to do all the baking and roasting in one go. This is particularly true before festivals such as Rosh Hashana and Shavuot when both ovens run at the same time all day.
              I was told that you cannot run both at the same time (both mechanicaly and also kashrut wise), so this would not have been practical wise for me.
               
              From the kashrut point of view, if this is important to you, it is important to consult with your accepted Rabbanic authority to get guidelines about selecting the oven.
              From the point of view of being technically able to use 2 ovens at the same time, if this is something you think you will do, this is a point to check out. In addition, often both the ovens to not have the same capabilities (e.g. ,maybe both do not have a grill), so this is also something to be aware of.
               
              As to the brand, my mother has been using Sauter for years and she is very satisfied (but a single oven).


               
              On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Karen Eisenberg <kbeisenberg@...> wrote:


              I am currently dealing with the same decision. 
               

              --
              Caroline Tabach
              ctabach@...
            • alizah hochstead
              We bought two Siemmens built in ovens (not self cleaning byut I must say they are really eeasy to clean) at the advise of our salesperson. They were less exp
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 1, 2009
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                We bought two Siemmens built in ovens (not self cleaning byut I must say they are really eeasy to clean) at the advise of our salesperson. They were less exp than an approved double oven (if you get a double and care abt issues of kashrut be sure to get one that is approved by kashrut authorites) and according to several people I spoke to work much better. Well my ovens (and another friend bought at the same time) are absolutely amazing. I have never cooked in a better oven.

                Acts of Kindness Will bring Moshiach
                Menashe and Alizah Hochstead
              • geoffrey mendelson
                ... I have no idea, and frankly my dear, I don t care. I only pointed out the law, if you want to follow it or not is up to you. My expectation is that the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 2, 2009
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                  On Jul 2, 2009, at 4:03 AM, Karen Eisenberg wrote:


                  > Thanks, Geoff. It doesn't have a pilot light. And with all due
                  > respect, but if I sell it to one of my neighbors, how would meches
                  > ever find out? It's not like a car where ownership has to be
                  > transferred etc. I'm not looking to make a profit, just to sell it
                  > for what I paid for it.


                  I have no idea, and frankly my dear, I don't care. I only pointed out
                  the law, if you want to follow it or not is up to you. My expectation
                  is that the meches people, if they cared, subscribe to the various
                  "for sale" lists, and if they see a moving sale, or something that
                  looks like one, call and pretend to be an interested buyer.

                  For one item, or someone leaving without announcing it, they ignore
                  it. I do know that someone who was sent back by his company, and had a
                  commercial mover move his stuff back, was hit for meches on anything
                  he left. Since he had sold most of it by the time they contacted him,
                  he had a big bill to pay out of his pocket.

                  BTW, in a way, you are making a profit. You are selling your discount
                  as an oleh.

                  Geoff.
                  --
                  geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
                  Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendelson@...
                • Karen Eisenberg
                  Hmmm, I hadn t thought of that. I m really not trying to do anything dishonest. I couldn t decide when I moved back whether to put appliances in the lift or
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 2, 2009
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                    Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that. I'm really not trying to do anything
                    dishonest. I couldn't decide when I moved back whether to put appliances in
                    the lift or not because I would be renting at first. A friend said to me,
                    if you make a mistake, you'll be able to sell them there for what you paid
                    for them, even if you use them for a year or two. That made sense so I took
                    the risk. Now I want a different stove/oven setup

                    It's too bad you can't sell a stove passport-to-passport!

                    Karen

                    On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:13 AM, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson@...> wrote:

                    > I have no idea, and frankly my dear, I don't care. I only pointed out
                    > the law, if you want to follow it or not is up to you. My expectation
                    > is that the meches people, if they cared, subscribe to the various
                    > "for sale" lists, and if they see a moving sale, or something that
                    > looks like one, call and pretend to be an interested buyer.
                    >
                    > For one item, or someone leaving without announcing it, they ignore
                    > it. I do know that someone who was sent back by his company, and had a
                    > commercial mover move his stuff back, was hit for meches on anything
                    > he left. Since he had sold most of it by the time they contacted him,
                    > he had a big bill to pay out of his pocket.
                    >
                    > BTW, in a way, you are making a profit. You are selling your discount
                    > as an oleh.
                  • geoffrey mendelson
                    ... You can, but the buyer has to give up a lift for each transaction. E.g. if you sell them a stove it counts as a lift. If you sell them a container full of
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 2, 2009
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                      On Jul 2, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Karen Eisenberg wrote:


                      > It's too bad you can't sell a stove passport-to-passport!
                      >


                      You can, but the buyer has to give up a lift for each transaction.
                      E.g. if you sell them a stove it counts as a lift. If you sell them a
                      container full of stuff at the same time, it counts as a lift. If you
                      sell them a stove today, and next week they come back and buy a
                      dishwasher it counts as two lifts.

                      I remember the days when people brought in a Camcorder and sold it at
                      enough profit to pay for the airfare. It was smuggling and they took
                      the risk of being prosecuted if they were caught. The buyer took the
                      risk that it would work and continue to do so, there was obviously no
                      warranty.

                      Geoff.


                      --
                      geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
                      Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendelson@...
                    • ncoom
                      Or just transferring it to her next oven. Lighten up. shalom, ncoom Things Are Gonna Change ncoom@shilo.org.il
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 2, 2009
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                        Or just transferring it to her next oven. Lighten up.

                        shalom,
                        ncoom

                        Things Are Gonna Change
                        ncoom@...



                        On Jul 2, 2009, at 10:13 AM, geoffrey mendelson wrote:

                        > BTW, in a way, you are making a profit. You are selling your discount
                        > as an oleh.
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