Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [ishmael_discussion] Re: Sustainability

Expand Messages
  • Jim Linder
    ... If I understand what you are saying Howard, it seems to make sense. I sense that I am myself caught in the trap you mention. I would like to feel I have
    Message 1 of 51 , Mar 1, 2005
      Howard said:
      > **You seem to have one already, but like most people with a great
      > idea, you face this obstacle I've been pointing to. Namely the
      > obstacle that humans aren't listening intently to one another. Each
      > person is so attached to their own agenda that it hinders our
      > understanding of what others are saying and it hinders the possibility
      > of collaboration. But even if we do reach out to others, not everyone
      > is going to share our same enthusiasm, but they still may be able to
      > help in some smaller way. And that wouldn't be wise to dismiss as not
      > valuable.


      If I understand what you are saying Howard, it seems to make sense. I sense that I am myself
      caught in the trap you mention. I would like to feel I have an open mind, but now I don't know.

      If someone outlines an idea like complete recycling, like Ian has (and I know he has outlined so
      much more than that), if I do not feel this is the right path, what should I do? I understand
      that there is more than one way, so I try not to criticize too much. But if statements are made
      that we disagree with, should we simply hold our tongue?

      What about statements like �If everyone would just��

      I guess I just don�t get this dialogue thing. I understand the importance of listening. I
      understand the importance of completely understanding another�s viewpoint, but at some point don�t
      we need to share our own as well? I�ve read a few books on communication over the years, and
      active listening, etc.

      Can you recommend any books?

      Reading one of your follow up posts on this subject, I must admit that sometimes when statements
      are made that I can�t agree with, I simply don�t respond. I guess it is my way of avoiding
      conflict. I think I might start looking at it differently, and more as an opportunity to
      understand how another came to such a viewpoint.

      Thanks
      Jim
    • Stephen Figgins
      I think, with regards to Toby Hemmenway s article, I would guess Toby did put thought to all of these things you mention. Toby makes his living teaching and
      Message 51 of 51 , Mar 8, 2005
        I think, with regards to Toby Hemmenway's article, I would guess Toby
        did put thought to all of these things you mention. Toby makes his
        living teaching and writing about permaculture. He has usually
        impressed me with his insights.

        I think Toby just realized that the family homestead didn't work for
        him. For the things he wanted, living closer to other people would work
        better. Indeed, people have always found banding together leads to
        better chances of survival.

        I can't say whether he gives accurate figures or not. Maybe he just took
        a guess. I think his point remains, trucking the modern lifestyle out
        onto the homestead requires more resources than getting it in the
        city.

        And I also like Toby's point that you can do permaculture wherever you
        find yourself. You don't have to have the farmstead. Indeed you might
        push the revolution a bit more by doing it in the city.

        -Stephen
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.