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Re: Matrix Reloaded and Ishmael

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  • frostyrush
    ... And now I am saying it s kind of like that (to me).....OK, glad you got a laugh out of it, Suze! :-) ... Well, everybody s interpretation is their own. I
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 1, 2003
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      <<<What I had to laugh at was all the people who told me to
      > see the Matrix...No one came to me & said, "its just like how mother
      > culture keeps you from seeing realty by making a 'one' way
      > to live.">>>

      And now I am saying it's kind of like that (to me).....OK, glad you
      got a laugh out of it, Suze! :-)

      <<<Just interesting that everyone wanted to claim it as their
      > own.>>>

      Well, everybody's interpretation is their own. I think Melissa makes
      a very valid point about how we frame things. I might say that there
      may be some projection. I know I was actively looking for something
      positive I could get out of it (since I was generally disappointed in
      the movie).

      I'm certainly not recommending that people go out and see Matrix
      instead of reading Daniel Quinn, and the connection I made was a
      somewhat loose one, but it was in fact the thought that crossed my
      mind when I saw that scene, and I wanted to share it.

      I imagined that others were making different interpretations,
      especially along the Eastern philosophy lines, but was unaware that
      there were those making a Judeo-Christian connection, so that is
      interesting. Thanks for sharing.
    • heretic_012
      First off, even Quinn s seen the first one :) : http://www.ishmael.org/Interaction/QandA/Detail.CFM?Record=401 I think the one of the reasons for the movies
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 5, 2003
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        First off, even Quinn's seen the first one :) :
        http://www.ishmael.org/Interaction/QandA/Detail.CFM?Record=401

        I think the one of the reasons for the movies' success is
        generally
        its vagueness. There's so much in there that can be interpreted
        every which way so it can appeal to as many people as possible. And
        I definitely think there are some parallels to Ishmaelian thinking.
        But despite those, the movies are still soaking in Mother Culture. I
        kind of just roll my eyes and groan everytime I hear Agent Smith's
        speech from the first one ("humans are a disease") along with
        the
        Architects.

        Anyway, I love the movies, and I find them particularly useful
        whenever I'm trying to explain Ishmaelian concepts to new people. I
        find myself making the most references to Morpheus in the first
        movie, either directly quoting what he says or by putting a little
        spin on it.

        Quote:
        Do you want to know what IT is? The Matrix is everywhere. It is all
        around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look
        out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it
        when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes.
        It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from
        the truth.
        Neo: What truth?
        Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born
        into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or
        touch. A prison for your mind....

        Whenever I watch either movie, I always think of "Mother Culture"
        whenever anyone says the "Matrix". The above quote, I think, is an
        easy way to explain it. My favorite though, is this:

        Quote:
        The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under
        control in order to change a human being into this.

        And instead of holding up a battery, he holds up a cog... a cog from
        the giant money machine that is our culture.

        But don't get me wrong. Even the great Morpheus himself isn't
        completely immune to the effects of Mother Culture:

        Quote:
        Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to
        survive.

        In the immortal words of Wayne and Garth: "NOT!" I shouldn't have to
        tell anyone here how blatantly wrong that quote is. The Taker culture
        may be dependent on machines now, but that's only because they
        invented all the stupid, pointless, mundane tasks that computers are
        needed to do.

        There was an article by Henry Cabot Beck in the `Daily News` a few
        weeks ago that a friend pointed out to me:

        "For many viewers, the impact of the first film... continues to
        reverberate. And it seems likely that it's two sequels... will only
        serve to expand on the ideas presented in the original.

        `The Matrix` has undeniably tapped into something unusually
        meaningful - a well of cosmic disorientation perhaps...

        Eric Davis, a contributing editor at Wired magazine... says, "As we
        engage more and more in virtual world and virtual realities, be it
        computer games, Hollywood special effects or Internet situations, we
        are inclined to ask this fundamental question: What if the entire
        world as we know it is some kind of artificial construct, an imposed
        reality? And that idea especially resonates with kids {my emphasis
        RL} who are growing up surrounded by any number of sophisticated
        simulations.
        There's a profound unhappiness at work, a feeling that there's
        something wrong with the world something amiss, and people can easily
        begin to believe that what we know is an illusion, and that there may
        be some other better world outside of it."

        My friend found this rather distressing, and although I did as well,
        I do think some good can come of it. It's more of a misdiagnosis than
        anything else, the assumption that the symptoms he describes are a
        result of "virtual world and virtual realities, be it computer games,
        Hollywood special effects or Internet situations" when it's much more
        likely to be cultural collapse that Quinn talks about.

        Quote:
        There's a profound unhappiness at work, a feeling that there's
        something wrong with the world something amiss, and people can easily
        begin to believe that what we know is an illusion, and that there may
        be some other better world outside of it.

        Spoken as a true slave to the system; that this way of life is the
        ONLY way of life. There is nothing else, no alternative. But let's
        look at that closely. How different, really, is that quote from this:

        Quote:
        You're here because you know something. What you know you can't
        explain, but you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's
        something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's
        there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad...

        Many of my friends who have read Ishmael had that feeling before. And
        for most of us, Quinn's ideas were the only ones that gave us any
        real answers. If the sentiments that the author of that article
        describes are as prevalent as he thinks, how much easier is our job
        now? How easy will it be to change those minds that are already
        searching for answers?

        With all that being said, I leave you with my favorite quote from the
        first movie:

        "I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're
        afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know
        the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end.
        I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up
        this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't
        want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world
        without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world
        where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I
        leave to you."
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