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Alternate XP system?

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  • Chris
    Heya and all that fun stuff. After a bit of thought, I was thinking that Harn s Blood, Sweat and Tears method of skill improvement would work well with
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 4 3:21 PM
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      Heya and all that fun stuff.

      After a bit of thought, I was thinking that Harn's "Blood, Sweat and
      Tears" method of skill improvement would work well with Ironclaw.
      With a few adaptions for the system.

      Pax Vobiscum

      With Harn, it's a percentile system where every multiple of 5 (eg: a 5
      or 0 showing on the 'Ones' die) is a critical, with success or failure
      of the die roll meaning weather it's a critical success or failure.
      (eg: if you need a 70 and you roll a 65, then you critically
      succeeded.) Furthermore, one you cirtically succeed or fail any
      skill, you can make an improvement roll to increas it. The
      improvement roll is a little complicated to explain to those that don;
      t understand Harn, but basically, if you skill is low, it's easy to
      improve and the higher it gets, the harder it is to improve.


      Now, the modified version I came up with for Ironclaw was like this:


      Blood, Sweat & Tears
      Alternate XP System

      The players recieve the standard suggested XP allotment of 1, 2 and 3
      points, but the 4th point is not given. Instead, they players make
      note of what skills they used in which they scored an Overwheamling
      Success or an Overwhealming Failure, and the skills that they scored a
      Botch in. At the end of the gaming session, they may then make one or
      more improvement rolls on those skills. Normal XP may still be spent
      on a skill that gains XP in this manner.


      Overwhelming Success or Failure: (Eureka!)
      Any skill with which at least one Overwealming Success or Failure was
      made allows for 1 improvememnt roll. The player rolls the skill dice
      only against a difficulty of 1d12 If this roll fails, then the skill
      gains 1 XP toward improvement. Only one improvement roll can be made
      for each skill no matter how many times an Overwealming Success or
      Failure is made.

      - Example: Tessa the Bat Scribe has had a great deal of sucess in
      using her Cyphering in trying to break codded messages, scoring an
      Overwealming Success. Her Cyphering skill is currently d8, so she
      rolls a 5 against the target of 1d12, which yields an 11. She fails,
      so gains 1 XP in Cyphering. She decides to add her 2 XP allotment to
      it as well, giving her a total of 3 XP toward improving it.


      Botch: (Oops...)
      If a Botch was rolled with a skill that is at Novice level (Rank 5 or
      1d12) or lower, then the player gains an automatic XP toward
      improvement. (He learns what NOT to do the hard way.) This is in
      addition to a potential skill improvement roll for an Overwealming
      Success or Failure he might have rolled in the session.
      If the Botched skill is higher than Novice (Rank 6 or 1d12+1d4) or
      higher, then the player gets an improvement roll in that skill.This is
      in addition to a potential skill improvement roll for an Overwealming
      Success or Failure he might have rolled in the session.

      - Example: Trevan, a Cat Burgalar is having a REALLY bad night. He
      firsh Overwealmingly Failed a climbing check, then Botched a Lock
      Picking skill in trying to unlock a strongbox in a building he broke
      into, jamming the lock shut for good, forcing him to leave empty
      handed. Then to add insult to injury, he Botched his Climbing skill
      while leaving. His skill in Lock Picking is only 1d8, so he gains 1
      XP in it with no roll needed. His Climbing skill is 1d12+1d6, so he
      gets 2 improvement rolls in it. One for the Botch and one for the
      Overwealming Failure. He rolls 11, 4 against 1d12, which comes up 5.
      Then he rolls a 3, 2 against a 7. He at least gains 1 XP in climbing
      for his lumps.
    • fsronce
      This seems reasonable. I might make the improvement check difficulty something like 2d10 or 2d12, though, so that it would be a little less random. Also, I d
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 4 4:40 PM
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        This seems reasonable. I might make the improvement check difficulty
        something like 2d10 or 2d12, though, so that it would be a little less
        random.

        Also, I'd consider saying that an overwhelming "failure" on an
        improvement check (meaning that your skill roll was at least 5 less than
        the result of the target roll) means that you get 2 XP instead.

        Kiz


        Chris wrote:
        > Heya and all that fun stuff.
        >
        > After a bit of thought, I was thinking that Harn's "Blood, Sweat and
        > Tears" method of skill improvement would work well with Ironclaw.
        > With a few adaptions for the system.
        >
        > Pax Vobiscum
        >
        > With Harn, it's a percentile system where every multiple of 5 (eg: a 5
        > or 0 showing on the 'Ones' die) is a critical, with success or failure
        > of the die roll meaning weather it's a critical success or failure.
        > (eg: if you need a 70 and you roll a 65, then you critically
        > succeeded.) Furthermore, one you cirtically succeed or fail any
        > skill, you can make an improvement roll to increas it. The
        > improvement roll is a little complicated to explain to those that don;
        > t understand Harn, but basically, if you skill is low, it's easy to
        > improve and the higher it gets, the harder it is to improve.
        >
        >
        > Now, the modified version I came up with for Ironclaw was like this:
        >
        >
        > Blood, Sweat & Tears
        > Alternate XP System
        >
        > The players recieve the standard suggested XP allotment of 1, 2 and 3
        > points, but the 4th point is not given. Instead, they players make
        > note of what skills they used in which they scored an Overwheamling
        > Success or an Overwhealming Failure, and the skills that they scored a
        > Botch in. At the end of the gaming session, they may then make one or
        > more improvement rolls on those skills. Normal XP may still be spent
        > on a skill that gains XP in this manner.
        >
        >
        > Overwhelming Success or Failure: (Eureka!)
        > Any skill with which at least one Overwealming Success or Failure was
        > made allows for 1 improvememnt roll. The player rolls the skill dice
        > only against a difficulty of 1d12 If this roll fails, then the skill
        > gains 1 XP toward improvement. Only one improvement roll can be made
        > for each skill no matter how many times an Overwealming Success or
        > Failure is made.
        >
        > - Example: Tessa the Bat Scribe has had a great deal of sucess in
        > using her Cyphering in trying to break codded messages, scoring an
        > Overwealming Success. Her Cyphering skill is currently d8, so she
        > rolls a 5 against the target of 1d12, which yields an 11. She fails,
        > so gains 1 XP in Cyphering. She decides to add her 2 XP allotment to
        > it as well, giving her a total of 3 XP toward improving it.
        >
        >
        > Botch: (Oops...)
        > If a Botch was rolled with a skill that is at Novice level (Rank 5 or
        > 1d12) or lower, then the player gains an automatic XP toward
        > improvement. (He learns what NOT to do the hard way.) This is in
        > addition to a potential skill improvement roll for an Overwealming
        > Success or Failure he might have rolled in the session.
        > If the Botched skill is higher than Novice (Rank 6 or 1d12+1d4) or
        > higher, then the player gets an improvement roll in that skill.This is
        > in addition to a potential skill improvement roll for an Overwealming
        > Success or Failure he might have rolled in the session.
        >
        > - Example: Trevan, a Cat Burgalar is having a REALLY bad night. He
        > firsh Overwealmingly Failed a climbing check, then Botched a Lock
        > Picking skill in trying to unlock a strongbox in a building he broke
        > into, jamming the lock shut for good, forcing him to leave empty
        > handed. Then to add insult to injury, he Botched his Climbing skill
        > while leaving. His skill in Lock Picking is only 1d8, so he gains 1
        > XP in it with no roll needed. His Climbing skill is 1d12+1d6, so he
        > gets 2 improvement rolls in it. One for the Botch and one for the
        > Overwealming Failure. He rolls 11, 4 against 1d12, which comes up 5.
        > Then he rolls a 3, 2 against a 7. He at least gains 1 XP in climbing
        > for his lumps.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        http://www.kizandjenn.com
        http://www.kizandjenn.com/art/gallery
      • Arlene Medder
        That s an interesting variant. It slows development, a little, in some ways but allows characters to develop skills that they have experienced. Is there any
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 6 11:52 AM
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          That's an interesting variant. It slows development, a little, in some
          ways but allows characters to develop skills that they have
          'experienced.'

          Is there any blood, sweat & tears rule for a skill that a Character
          attempted unskilled.

          Fosse, the bodyguard, is trying to learn how to play the flute. But
          she's unskilled but focused so she rolls a d4 (vs. difficulty 2d8).
          What a cacaphony she produces (overwhelming failure rolls a 2 vs.
          difficulty 8).

          When experience is awarded what does she roll vs. the improvement check
          of d12 (or 2d10 if we use Kiz's)
          Arlene J.


          Quoting fsronce <fsronce@...>:

          > This seems reasonable. I might make the improvement check difficulty
          > something like 2d10 or 2d12, though, so that it would be a little less
          > random.
          >
          > Also, I'd consider saying that an overwhelming "failure" on an
          > improvement check (meaning that your skill roll was at least 5 less than
          > the result of the target roll) means that you get 2 XP instead.
          >
          > Kiz
          >
          >
          > Chris wrote:
          >> Heya and all that fun stuff.
          >>
          >> After a bit of thought, I was thinking that Harn's "Blood, Sweat and
          >> Tears" method of skill improvement would work well with Ironclaw.
          >> With a few adaptions for the system.
          >>
          <snip>
        • fsronce
          ... I d probably either call it an automatic 1 or a roll 2d4, take the lowest . Kiz -- http://www.kizandjenn.com http://www.kizandjenn.com/art/gallery
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 6 9:10 PM
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            Arlene Medder wrote:
            > That's an interesting variant. It slows development, a little, in some
            > ways but allows characters to develop skills that they have
            > 'experienced.'
            >
            > Is there any blood, sweat & tears rule for a skill that a Character
            > attempted unskilled.
            >
            > Fosse, the bodyguard, is trying to learn how to play the flute. But
            > she's unskilled but focused so she rolls a d4 (vs. difficulty 2d8).
            > What a cacaphony she produces (overwhelming failure rolls a 2 vs.
            > difficulty 8).
            >
            > When experience is awarded what does she roll vs. the improvement check
            > of d12 (or 2d10 if we use Kiz's)
            > Arlene J.
            >


            I'd probably either call it an automatic 1 or a "roll 2d4, take the
            lowest".

            Kiz
            --
            http://www.kizandjenn.com
            http://www.kizandjenn.com/art/gallery
          • Ravenwood
            ... It doesn t really slow devolopment that much since they can add their normal EX award to it, but it does spread it around a lot more, so they improve a
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 7 12:35 AM
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              > That's an interesting variant. It slows development, a little, in some
              > ways but allows characters to develop skills that they have
              > 'experienced.'

              It doesn't really slow devolopment that much since they can add their
              normal EX award to it, but it does spread it around a lot more, so they
              improve a broader number of skills.

              > Is there any blood, sweat & tears rule for a skill that a Character
              > attempted unskilled.

              I should have included, yes, I'd say that 2d4, taking the lowest would
              be the best result. It would prevent a nearly guaranteed XP point each
              time an untrained skill is used.

              > When experience is awarded what does she roll vs. the improvement check
              > of d12 (or 2d10 if we use Kiz's)
              > Arlene J.

              After doing some testing, I like the 2d10 more than the 1d12. I'm
              still working on it and I'll post a revised version, with some better
              clairifications.

              > Also, I'd consider saying that an overwhelming "failure" on an
              > improvement check (meaning that your skill roll was at least 5
              > less than the result of the target roll) means that you get 2 XP
              > instead.

              I think that getting 1 xp would be good enough, even on an OF. But it
              could certainly be tried as an optional rule. (I'll included in my
              revision.)


              I'm not actually involved in an Ironclaw game at the moment, but those
              that are are quite free to give it a test and see how well it works in
              actual game play.
            • Ravenwood
              Blood, Sweat & Tears Alternate XP System (v1.1) The players receive the standard suggested XP allotment of 1, 2 and 3 points, but the 4th point is not given.
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 11 7:52 PM
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                Blood, Sweat & Tears
                Alternate XP System (v1.1)

                The players receive the standard suggested XP allotment of 1, 2 and 3
                points, but the 4th point is not given. Instead, they players make note
                of what skills they used in which they scored an Overwhelming Success or
                an Overwhelming Failure, and the skills that they scored a Botch in. At
                the end of the gaming session, they may then make one or more
                improvement rolls on those skills. Normal XP may still be spent on a
                skill that gains XP in this manner.


                Overwhelming Success or Failure: (Eureka!)
                Any skill with which at least one Overwhelming Success or Failure was
                made allows for 1 improvement roll. The player rolls the skill dice
                only against a difficulty of 2d10 If this roll fails, then the skill
                gains 1 XP toward improvement. Only one improvement roll can be made
                for each skill no matter how many times an Overwhelming Success or
                Failure is made.

                - Example:
                Tessa the Bat Scribe has had a great deal of success in using her
                Cyphering in trying to break codded messages, scoring an Overwhelming
                Success. Her Cyphering skill is currently d8, so she rolls a 5 against
                the target of 2d10, which yields a 9 and 4. She fails,so gains 1 XP in
                Cyphering. She decides to add her 2 XP allotment to it as well, giving
                her a total of 3 XP toward improving it.


                Botch: (Oops...)
                If a Botch was rolled with a skill that is at Novice level (Rank 5 or
                1d12) or lower, then the player gains an automatic XP toward
                improvement. (He learns what NOT to do the hard way.) This is in
                addition to a potential skill improvement roll for an Overwhelming
                Success or Failure he might have rolled in the session. If the Botched
                skill is higher than Novice (Rank 6 or 1d12+1d4) or higher, then the
                player gets an improvement roll in that skill. This is in addition to a
                potential skill improvement roll for an Overwhelming Success or Failure
                he might have rolled in the session.

                - Example:
                Trevan, a Cat Burglar is having a REALLY bad night. He fish
                Overwhelmingly Failed a climbing check, then Botched a Lock Picking
                skill in trying to unlock a strongbox in a building he broke into,
                jamming the lock shut for good, forcing him to leave empty handed. Then
                to add insult to injury, he Botched his Climbing skill while leaving.
                His skill in Lock Picking is only 1d8, so he gains 1 XP in it with no
                roll needed. His Climbing skill is 1d12+1d6, so he gets 2 improvement
                rolls in it. One for the Botch and one for the Overwhelming Failure.
                He rolls 11, 4 against 2d10, which comes up 5 and 3. Then he rolls a 3,
                2 against a difficulty of 7 and 2. He at least gains 1 XP in climbing
                for his lumps.


                Untrained Skill use:
                For any skill in which the player has no skill ranks, they would roll
                2d4 and choose the lowest die for tests.

                - Example:
                Fosse, the bodyguard, is trying to learn how to play the flute. But
                she's unskilled so she rolls 2d4 against a difficulty of 2d10. She's
                almost certainly going to learn something.


                OPTIONAL:
                If the player scores an Overwhelming Failure on his skill improvement
                test, they gain 2 XP toward improving the skill. This is up to the
                discretion of the Moderator, as it will increase the rate at which low
                level skills are improved.
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