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Flash Drive vs. CF Adapter

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  • Mitch Wolfson
    Dave, I was just curious why you chose the more expensive Flash Drive solution instead of a CF card with IDE adapter (which costs 12.90 euro here). I would not
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 7, 2006
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      Dave,

      I was just curious why you chose the more expensive Flash Drive
      solution instead of a CF card with IDE adapter (which costs 12.90 euro
      here). I would not think that performance would be the reason, so
      maybe reliability or something else?

      I built my fanless mini-ITX system shortly before you announced yours,
      but put in a 2.5" HD to allow me to possibly run more server apps in
      the future. I thought about using the CF adapter with a 2GB CF card at
      the time.

      73,
      Mitch DJØQN/K7DX

      IRLP node 5378
    • David Cameron - IRLP
      Three reasons: 1) The CF card adapter requires room. Size is a premium in these cases. 2) The combination of a CF card and the adapter is actually slightly
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 7, 2006
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        Three reasons:

        1) The CF card adapter requires room. Size is a premium in these cases.

        2) The combination of a CF card and the adapter is actually slightly more
        expensive than the IDE flash drive.

        3) The filesystem of the IDE flash drive is actually "wear sharing", in
        that the same areas of the drive are not always used for read/write.

        The software is done in such a way that the filesystem is run from RAM,
        and does not write to the card.

        A CF adapter will work fine as well.

        Dave Cameron
        VE7LTD

        On
        Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Mitch Wolfson wrote:

        > Dave,
        >
        > I was just curious why you chose the more expensive Flash Drive
        > solution instead of a CF card with IDE adapter (which costs 12.90 euro
        > here). I would not think that performance would be the reason, so
        > maybe reliability or something else?
        >
        > I built my fanless mini-ITX system shortly before you announced yours,
        > but put in a 2.5" HD to allow me to possibly run more server apps in
        > the future. I thought about using the CF adapter with a 2GB CF card at
        > the time.
        >
        > 73,
        > Mitch DJØQN/K7DX
        >
        > IRLP node 5378
        >
        >
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        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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      • Mitch Wolfson
        Thanks for the good explanation, Dave Point 3 is probably the most significant one, since a CF card is dumb in this respect. Of course, designing my own
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 7, 2006
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          Thanks for the good explanation, Dave

          Point 3 is probably the most significant one, since a CF card
          is "dumb" in this respect. Of course, designing my own system means
          I use the "generic" IRLP install O/S, so the CF card would be
          written quite often. Supposedly cards are now good for several 100k
          writes per sector, but nevertheless this ia an issue with flash in
          general.

          What does the flash drive cost, and what is the capacity? The CF
          adapter with 2GB costs about 60 euros, and the only flash drives I
          have seen till now cost more than double that with less memory.

          73,
          Mitch DJØQN/K7DX

          --- In irlp-embedded@yahoogroups.com, David Cameron - IRLP
          <dcameron@...> wrote:
          >
          > Three reasons:
          >
          > 1) The CF card adapter requires room. Size is a premium in these
          cases.
          >
          > 2) The combination of a CF card and the adapter is actually
          slightly more
          > expensive than the IDE flash drive.
          >
          > 3) The filesystem of the IDE flash drive is actually "wear
          sharing", in
          > that the same areas of the drive are not always used for
          read/write.
          >
          > The software is done in such a way that the filesystem is run from
          RAM,
          > and does not write to the card.
          >
          > A CF adapter will work fine as well.
          >
          > Dave Cameron
          > VE7LTD
          >
          > On
          > Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Mitch Wolfson wrote:
          >
          > > Dave,
          > >
          > > I was just curious why you chose the more expensive Flash Drive
          > > solution instead of a CF card with IDE adapter (which costs
          12.90 euro
          > > here). I would not think that performance would be the reason, so
          > > maybe reliability or something else?
          > >
          > > I built my fanless mini-ITX system shortly before you announced
          yours,
          > > but put in a 2.5" HD to allow me to possibly run more server
          apps in
          > > the future. I thought about using the CF adapter with a 2GB CF
          card at
          > > the time.
          > >
          > > 73,
          > > Mitch DJØQN/K7DX
          > >
          > > IRLP node 5378
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • David Cameron - IRLP
          The cost is about $40US for 128 megs... Here the CF-IDE adapter costs $20, and you can not buy a 128M CF for $20... For larger sizes, yes, CF is the way to go,
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 7, 2006
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            The cost is about $40US for 128 megs... Here the CF-IDE adapter costs
            $20, and you can not buy a 128M CF for $20... For larger sizes, yes, CF
            is the way to go, price wise only.

            I am thinking of selling an OS loaded IDE-flash for $100 US. It did take
            me 4 months of 3-4 hours a night to build it :) This will work in any
            mini-ITX machine that uses the VT1616 audio chipset.

            The embedded IRLP OS is only 34 megs with IRLP and Echolink installed.
            That size will come down a bit once I am able to get the audio files to be
            streamed across the connection.

            This loads into 256 megs of ram, as a 120 meg flash drive (so you can not
            exceed the amount of the drive when you mirror it back), and then with 16
            megs shared for video (as small as it goes), the OS just flies in the
            remaining RAM. There is NO RAM DRIVE, which is important to note, as if
            you use a RAM drive on a CF, your 100K writes will be dead, or really
            crippled, in less than 6 months.

            The way these embedded nodes run, I estimate a MTBF (mean time between
            failures) of something like 100000 hours, at which time the mobo or RAM
            will need to be replaced as well (12 years or so). I have similar Redhat
            6.2 based embedded machines that have not had a hiccup in 5 years.

            Dave Cameron
            VE7LTD



            On Thu, 7
            Sep 2006, Mitch Wolfson wrote:

            > Thanks for the good explanation, Dave
            >
            > Point 3 is probably the most significant one, since a CF card
            > is "dumb" in this respect. Of course, designing my own system means
            > I use the "generic" IRLP install O/S, so the CF card would be
            > written quite often. Supposedly cards are now good for several 100k
            > writes per sector, but nevertheless this ia an issue with flash in
            > general.
            >
            > What does the flash drive cost, and what is the capacity? The CF
            > adapter with 2GB costs about 60 euros, and the only flash drives I
            > have seen till now cost more than double that with less memory.
            >
            > 73,
            > Mitch DJØQN/K7DX
            >
            > --- In irlp-embedded@yahoogroups.com, David Cameron - IRLP
            > <dcameron@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Three reasons:
            >>
            >> 1) The CF card adapter requires room. Size is a premium in these
            > cases.
            >>
            >> 2) The combination of a CF card and the adapter is actually
            > slightly more
            >> expensive than the IDE flash drive.
            >>
            >> 3) The filesystem of the IDE flash drive is actually "wear
            > sharing", in
            >> that the same areas of the drive are not always used for
            > read/write.
            >>
            >> The software is done in such a way that the filesystem is run from
            > RAM,
            >> and does not write to the card.
            >>
            >> A CF adapter will work fine as well.
            >>
            >> Dave Cameron
            >> VE7LTD
            >>
            >> On
            >> Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Mitch Wolfson wrote:
            >>
            >>> Dave,
            >>>
            >>> I was just curious why you chose the more expensive Flash Drive
            >>> solution instead of a CF card with IDE adapter (which costs
            > 12.90 euro
            >>> here). I would not think that performance would be the reason, so
            >>> maybe reliability or something else?
            >>>
            >>> I built my fanless mini-ITX system shortly before you announced
            > yours,
            >>> but put in a 2.5" HD to allow me to possibly run more server
            > apps in
            >>> the future. I thought about using the CF adapter with a 2GB CF
            > card at
            >>> the time.
            >>>
            >>> 73,
            >>> Mitch DJØQN/K7DX
            >>>
            >>> IRLP node 5378
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
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            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
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