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Courtesy Tones again

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  • tentecorion
    I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new embedded node #4114. It s conected to a repeater via a UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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      I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new embedded node #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my local users will know if the node is connected to another node or reflector.



      Is this possible??

      Thanks in advance,

      Tom

      NJ1K
    • David Cameron (IRLP)
      A courtesy tone through a remote link radio will not tell you anything. Courtesy tones can only really be used on full duplex systems, or when connected
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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        A courtesy tone through a remote link radio will not tell you anything.
        Courtesy tones can only really be used on full duplex systems, or when
        connected directly to the repeater.

        Dave Cameron
        VE7LTD


        On 20/03/2012 7:46 PM, tentecorion wrote:
        > I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new embedded node #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my local users will know if the node is connected to another node or reflector.
        >
        >
        >
        > Is this possible??
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > NJ1K
        >
        >
      • Rick Bates
        Tom, If the node looks to the repeater like it s just another user, you could put an end of transmission tone as your link radio drops off. That would tell
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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          Tom,

           

          If the node looks to the repeater like it’s just another user, you could put an end of transmission tone as your link radio drops off.  That would tell the repeater user the source of the signal.  (Reminder, you want to filter out all tones, courtesy or otherwise into the IRLP network.)

           

          If there is a link just for the IRLP node, the controller can acknowledge input from that link (courtesy tone) while connect status is the same command that enables the repeater UHF transmitter back to the node.

           

          The answer is probably some creative programming in your existing controller.  You likely already have the tools you need for the result(s) you want.

           

          Rick wa6nhc

           


          On 20/03/2012 7:46 PM, tentecorion wrote:

          > I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new embedded node
          #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my local users will know if the node is connected to another node or reflector.
          >
          > Is this possible??

        • Mike Morris
          ... The courtesy tones are coming from your repeater controller. Unless your node is in the audio path from the repeater receiver to the repeater transmitter
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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            At 07:46 PM 03/20/12, you wrote:

            >I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new
            >embedded node #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a
            >UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my
            >local users will know if the node is connected to another
            >node or reflector.
            >
            >Is this possible??
            >
            >Thanks in advance,
            >
            >Tom
            >
            >NJ1K

            The courtesy tones are coming from your repeater controller.
            Unless your node is in the audio path from the repeater receiver
            to the repeater transmitter you can't add beeps midstream.

            Somehow you need to tell the controller that the node is
            connected or not.
            Tell us more about how the node is connected to the repeater
            and it's controller and we can make a suggestion or three.

            One trick that may work.... Do you have the control codes
            for the repeater? Can the controller change the courtesy
            tones based on DTMF commands?
            If so, have the scripts in the node send DTMF strings (yes,
            they can) to the repeater via the link radio and use that to
            change the beeps.

            I hope that explanation and trick helps...

            Mike WA6ILQ
          • tentecorion
            ... First off, yes I know the current CT comes from my repeater, I built it and own it. I currently have 4 different CT s that the repeater generates
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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              --- In irlp-embedded@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris <wa6ilq1@...> wrote:
              >
              > At 07:46 PM 03/20/12, you wrote:
              >
              > >I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new
              > >embedded node #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a
              > >UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my
              > >local users will know if the node is connected to another
              > >node or reflector.
              > >
              > >Is this possible??
              > >
              > >Thanks in advance,
              > >
              > >Tom
              > >
              > >NJ1K
              >
              > The courtesy tones are coming from your repeater controller.
              > Unless your node is in the audio path from the repeater receiver
              > to the repeater transmitter you can't add beeps midstream.
              >
              > Somehow you need to tell the controller that the node is
              > connected or not.
              > Tell us more about how the node is connected to the repeater
              > and it's controller and we can make a suggestion or three.
              >
              > One trick that may work.... Do you have the control codes
              > for the repeater? Can the controller change the courtesy
              > tones based on DTMF commands?
              > If so, have the scripts in the node send DTMF strings (yes,
              > they can) to the repeater via the link radio and use that to
              > change the beeps.
              >
              > I hope that explanation and trick helps...
              >
              > Mike WA6ILQ
              >


              First off, yes I know the "current" CT comes from my repeater, I built it and own it. I currently have 4 different CT's that the repeater generates depending on where the signal originates from and where it is directed to go. Here is an overview of how it works:

              The base repeater is a 2-meter with 2 UHF links. Port 1 is the 2-meter whick will recognise two different PL tones. Port 1 monitors both port 2 & 3 all the time. If a signal originates on poprt 1, the repeater reports the "local" CT. If it originates from port 2, it reports the "downlink" tone. If it originates on port 3, we get the IRLP CT.

              When transmitting into port 1 (2-meter), With one PL tone (the link PL), it will transmit on both port 1 and 2, and report the "uplink CT. If the "local" PL is used, it will transmit both on both port 1 and port 3 (IRLP), and it reports the "local" CT. It all works great because we know where in the network everything comes from and goes to. The problem is, users cannot automatically tell if a node or reflector is connected. Yes the can query the system with DTMF to determine if the node is connected, I want to do it automatically.

              A simple script can accomplish this. I however, am not adept at writing bash scripts. A work around can be used though. This would entail a small script (which I have written) to determine when the node is connected and turn on AUX3. AUX3 would be connected to a 555 timer circuit and turns on PTT for 250ms after cos drops. This in turn would trigger the repeater port 3 cos which in turn reports the IRLP CT from the repeater even though the local PL tone was used.

              And actually, I don't even need a tone per se, just a quick key-up of the PPT after any cos activity on the link radio.

              So, if there is indeed a CT script out there, that would be my first choice. If not, I will just build the PPT timer and call it a day.

              Thanks again in advance for all your help,


              Tom
              NJ1K
            • David McAnally
              I wrote a ctone script in the other IRLP group files section, but it has requirements that may not allow it to work on embedded nodes. However, something like
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                I wrote a ctone script in the other IRLP group files section, but it has requirements that may not allow it to work on embedded nodes. However, something like that might do what you are describing.  

                Perhaps a better solution would be to have the IRLP node modify the repeater controller tone settings when connected versus disconnected. IRLP can generate DTMF tones, or perhaps you can use the aux controls, via the cutom_on and custom_off scripts.

                -- 
                Regards,
                David McAnally


                On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:39 AM, tentecorion <nj1k@...> wrote:


                --- In irlp-embedded@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris <wa6ilq1@...> wrote:
                >
                > At 07:46 PM 03/20/12, you wrote:
                >
                > >I searched here but could not find an answer. I have a new
                > >embedded node #4114. It's conected to a repeater via a
                > >UHF link. I would to enable a courtesy tone on it so that my
                > >local users will know if the node is connected to another
                > >node or reflector.
                > >
                > >Is this possible??
                > >
                > >Thanks in advance,
                > >
                > >Tom
                > >
                > >NJ1K
                >
                > The courtesy tones are coming from your repeater controller.
                > Unless your node is in the audio path from the repeater receiver
                > to the repeater transmitter you can't add beeps midstream.
                >
                > Somehow you need to tell the controller that the node is
                > connected or not.
                > Tell us more about how the node is connected to the repeater
                > and it's controller and we can make a suggestion or three.
                >
                > One trick that may work....  Do you have the control codes
                > for the repeater?  Can the controller change the courtesy
                > tones based on DTMF commands?
                > If so, have the scripts in the node send DTMF strings (yes,
                > they can) to the repeater via the link radio and use that to
                > change the beeps.
                >
                > I hope that explanation and trick helps...
                >
                > Mike WA6ILQ
                >


                First off, yes I know the "current" CT comes from my repeater, I built it and own it.  I currently have 4 different CT's that the repeater generates depending on where the signal originates from and where it is directed to go.  Here is an overview of how it works:

                The base repeater is a 2-meter with 2 UHF links.  Port 1 is the 2-meter whick will recognise two different PL tones.  Port 1 monitors both port 2 & 3 all the time.  If a signal originates on poprt 1, the repeater reports the "local" CT.  If it originates from port 2, it reports the "downlink" tone.  If it originates on port 3, we get the IRLP CT.

                When transmitting into port 1 (2-meter), With one PL tone (the link PL), it will transmit on both port 1 and 2, and report the "uplink CT.  If the "local" PL is used, it will transmit both on both port 1 and port 3 (IRLP), and it reports the "local" CT.  It all works great because we know where in the network everything comes from and goes to.  The problem is, users cannot automatically tell if a node or reflector is connected.  Yes the can query the system with DTMF to determine if the node is connected, I want to do it automatically.

                A simple script can accomplish this.  I however, am not adept at writing bash scripts.  A work around can be used though.  This would entail a small script (which I have written) to determine when the node is connected and turn on AUX3.  AUX3 would be connected to a 555 timer circuit and turns on PTT for 250ms after cos drops.  This in turn would trigger the repeater port 3 cos which in turn reports the IRLP CT from the repeater even though the local PL tone was used.

                And actually, I don't even need a tone per se, just a quick key-up of the PPT after any cos activity on the link radio.

                So, if there is indeed a CT script out there, that would be my first choice.  If not, I will just build the PPT timer and call it a day.

                Thanks again in advance for all your help,


                Tom
                NJ1K




              • tentecorion
                Thanks again for all the replies. I looked at the ctone script but I don t know how to make it work on an ambedded node, or if it even will work. I can t
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                  Thanks again for all the replies. I looked at the ctone script but I don't know how to make it work on an ambedded node, or if it even will work. I can't read it because it's not a bash file?

                  Anyway, I already have a unique CT coming out of the repeater when the node radio unkeys, that part is fine. What I need it to do is for the node radio to send a short key-up upon drop of cos, but only when the node is connected to another node or reflector. A report back into the local system indicating the node is connected. In this way, when local users are chatting, they will have the link CT (from the repeater) and know the node is connected. From there, they will know to allow time between key-ups or disconnect before continuing their qso.

                  As already mentioned, I have no problem writing a script to turn on AUX3 when the node is connected, and wire AUX3 to to trip a "kerchunk" timer (555 timer) to send a short pulse every time the cos drops. (no, this pulse would not go into the irlp network)

                  Another solution would be to add another tone board at the repeater so local traffic wouldn't feed into the node. I would rather stay away from this solution as it makes control functions rather cumbersome.

                  The best solution of course is to write a script to do it all in the irlp software but my scripting skills are a bit lacking. That's why I came here. If nothing else, can anyone tell me how to monitor cos(in a script)? If I know that, I might be able to write my own script. Sorry, but I am a hardware guy and never liked or learned programming very well.

                  Again, thanks for any thoughts and replies....

                  Tom NJ1K
                • David Cameron (IRLP)
                  A script like the following would work, but you have to make sure it is not subject to race conditions, and may need some checks and balances put into it. This
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                    A script like the following would work, but you have to make sure it is
                    not subject to race conditions, and may need some checks and balances
                    put into it.

                    This process would also be very processor intensive if you reduce the
                    "usleep" times by too much. You would also want to use AUX1 for this -
                    not the PTT, but you likely have bridged AUX1 and the PTT per the
                    instructions.

                    #!/bin/bash

                    while [ 1 = 1 ] ; do
                    # If node is not active we skip execution until it is.
                    if [ ! -f $LOCAL/active ] ; then
                    sleep 5
                    continue
                    fi

                    if $BIN/cosstate ; then
                    # NO COS (idle)
                    usleep 500000
                    else
                    # COS is active
                    # We wait until the COS is inactive, waiting 100ms
                    while ! $BIN/cosstate ; do
                    usleep 100000
                    done
                    aux1on
                    usleep 250000
                    aux1off
                    fi

                    done



                    On 21/03/2012 12:27 PM, tentecorion wrote:
                    > Thanks again for all the replies. I looked at the ctone script but I don't know how to make it work on an ambedded node, or if it even will work. I can't read it because it's not a bash file?
                    >
                    > Anyway, I already have a unique CT coming out of the repeater when the node radio unkeys, that part is fine. What I need it to do is for the node radio to send a short key-up upon drop of cos, but only when the node is connected to another node or reflector. A report back into the local system indicating the node is connected. In this way, when local users are chatting, they will have the link CT (from the repeater) and know the node is connected. From there, they will know to allow time between key-ups or disconnect before continuing their qso.
                    >
                    > As already mentioned, I have no problem writing a script to turn on AUX3 when the node is connected, and wire AUX3 to to trip a "kerchunk" timer (555 timer) to send a short pulse every time the cos drops. (no, this pulse would not go into the irlp network)
                    >
                    > Another solution would be to add another tone board at the repeater so local traffic wouldn't feed into the node. I would rather stay away from this solution as it makes control functions rather cumbersome.
                    >
                    > The best solution of course is to write a script to do it all in the irlp software but my scripting skills are a bit lacking. That's why I came here. If nothing else, can anyone tell me how to monitor cos(in a script)? If I know that, I might be able to write my own script. Sorry, but I am a hardware guy and never liked or learned programming very well.
                    >
                    > Again, thanks for any thoughts and replies....
                    >
                    > Tom NJ1K
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • tentecorion
                    Thanks Dave, it s a start.. I ll play with it and see what shakes out.. Tom NJ1K
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                      Thanks Dave, it's a start.. I'll play with it and see what shakes out..

                      Tom

                      NJ1K
                    • tentecorion
                      Dave, I thank you again for spendin the time to put something together for me. I tried the script and it worked sometimes, and sometimes not. I made several
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 24, 2012
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                        Dave, I thank you again for spendin the time to put something together for me.

                        I tried the script and it worked sometimes, and sometimes not. I made several adjustments, sometimes to extremes but could not get it consistent. Not being a programmer, I decided to try plan "B", the 555 timer energized buy AUX3 when connected, and triggered by the cos. It works great, is very consistent and stable..

                        Now all that's left to do is package all the various interface circuits that are currently a clip lead mess onto a pc board. In the meantime, the node is up and running and everyone has said it sounds great.

                        This has been a very interesting project and I look forward to meeting up with all of you on the air.

                        Thanks again for all the help you provide here.

                        Tom NJ1K




                        --- In irlp-embedded@yahoogroups.com, "David Cameron (IRLP)" <dcameron@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A script like the following would work, but you have to make sure it is
                        > not subject to race conditions, and may need some checks and balances
                        > put into it.
                        >
                        > This process would also be very processor intensive if you reduce the
                        > "usleep" times by too much. You would also want to use AUX1 for this -
                        > not the PTT, but you likely have bridged AUX1 and the PTT per the
                        > instructions.
                        >
                        > #!/bin/bash
                        >
                        > while [ 1 = 1 ] ; do
                        > # If node is not active we skip execution until it is.
                        > if [ ! -f $LOCAL/active ] ; then
                        > sleep 5
                        > continue
                        > fi
                        >
                        > if $BIN/cosstate ; then
                        > # NO COS (idle)
                        > usleep 500000
                        > else
                        > # COS is active
                        > # We wait until the COS is inactive, waiting 100ms
                        > while ! $BIN/cosstate ; do
                        > usleep 100000
                        > done
                        > aux1on
                        > usleep 250000
                        > aux1off
                        > fi
                        >
                        > done
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 21/03/2012 12:27 PM, tentecorion wrote:
                        > > Thanks again for all the replies. I looked at the ctone script but I don't know how to make it work on an ambedded node, or if it even will work. I can't read it because it's not a bash file?
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, I already have a unique CT coming out of the repeater when the node radio unkeys, that part is fine. What I need it to do is for the node radio to send a short key-up upon drop of cos, but only when the node is connected to another node or reflector. A report back into the local system indicating the node is connected. In this way, when local users are chatting, they will have the link CT (from the repeater) and know the node is connected. From there, they will know to allow time between key-ups or disconnect before continuing their qso.
                        > >
                        > > As already mentioned, I have no problem writing a script to turn on AUX3 when the node is connected, and wire AUX3 to to trip a "kerchunk" timer (555 timer) to send a short pulse every time the cos drops. (no, this pulse would not go into the irlp network)
                        > >
                        > > Another solution would be to add another tone board at the repeater so local traffic wouldn't feed into the node. I would rather stay away from this solution as it makes control functions rather cumbersome.
                        > >
                        > > The best solution of course is to write a script to do it all in the irlp software but my scripting skills are a bit lacking. That's why I came here. If nothing else, can anyone tell me how to monitor cos(in a script)? If I know that, I might be able to write my own script. Sorry, but I am a hardware guy and never liked or learned programming very well.
                        > >
                        > > Again, thanks for any thoughts and replies....
                        > >
                        > > Tom NJ1K
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
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