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Re: PC800: wheel balancing

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  • Tosh
    The No-Mar brand balancer comes with a stand which makes it very convenient. I believe it s only $100 + shipping and I ve always been happy with the results.
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 11, 2010
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      The No-Mar brand balancer comes with a stand which makes it very convenient. I believe it's only $100 + shipping and I've always been happy with the results.
    • sr139fox
      I did this same process, but I clamped the end of the axle in my workmate and put a 2X4 cut to the correct height on the other end to keep the axle level.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 11, 2010
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        I did this same process, but I clamped the end of the axle in my workmate and put a 2X4 cut to the correct height on the other end to keep the axle level. Might have to do a set up without the wheel on the axle to get the correct height of the 2X4. Put the wheel on the axle, Spun the wheel and it stopped. I was lucky and it stopped at random spots. Wheel was balanced.

        Dave P.



        --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "randiana46128" <rhayes@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "douglasvanb" <douglas.vanbossuyt@> wrote:
        > >
        > > How well do those "magic beads" work anyway? The local independent shop charges me about $25/tire to mount and balanced a tire on a rim. It would be nice to be able to swap in and out my own tires when the need arises.
        >
        >
        > Unless your shop uses some kind of dynamic spin balancer, you can do yours at home and with a little practice get as good or better results than many tire shops. Just rig up something to hold an axle suspended horizontally. You can make a double forked metal fixture, but I find that two identical milk crates with notches work well enough for the occasional balancing. Mount the tires according to the colored dots / valve stem ( varies according to brand ) Make sure wheel bearings are lubed and in good shape. Give the wheel a spin and note where it stops. Mark the top. Spin again and see if it stops in the same spot. If so, you have probably found the light part of the assembly. Repeat a few times to confirm. The closer to exactly the same stopping spot, the heavier the bottom is. If it stops in generally the same area but not exactly, its not far off. If you're lucky and it stops in completely random spots, its balanced. Add some tire weight at the top spot. Spin some more,adding and subtracting weight on the light spot, until randomness is achieved. Remount wheel, test ride, enjoy well deserved barley pop.
        >
      • eegah_yai
        I got the universal model- fits a PC800, CB250, and a Suzuki V-Strom so far. I really like it- I used to use the bike axles suspended on kitchen chair backs or
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 11, 2010
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          I got the universal model- fits a PC800, CB250, and a Suzuki V-Strom so far. I really like it- I used to use the bike axles suspended on kitchen chair backs or identical 5 gallon buckets. It is a quality item- follow the directions and don't crank the wing nuts down too hard so they don't leave indents, and it should last forever. I remember seeing a balancer made using 4 roller skate bearings and mounting them so that the ends of an axle sits between two of them on each end.

          The post about the Dyna beads clumping is what I was talking about- when removing an old tire, when mounting the new tire, and when setting the bead some sort of lubrication is used (I use silicone spray- an idea from the CB250 forum files). Whatever you use for lubrication, it is hard not to get some inside the tires, thus contaminating the beads and having them clump.

          Mike

          --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "pc800va" <pc800va@...> wrote:
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          >
          > Mike,
          > Thanks for posting that link to the WebBikeWorld balancer review.
          > Which model balancer did you get? The Marc Parnes site has one for Honda but I'd rather get the universal to use on other bikes too.
          >
          >
          > > I had bought one of these balancers and had used it before buying beads, and along with a card of self-stick 1/4 oz. weights it works great perched on two 5 gallon buckets. Highly recommended if you change your own tires. It's also kind of fun to use, and has already paid for itself.
          > > http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-wheels/balancer/
          > >
          > > Mike
          >
        • mkerr
          ... I recently changed tires on two bikes (PC800 and V-Strom, using the dyna beads by pouring them into the tires just before inflating to set the beads. So
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 12, 2010
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            --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "eegah_yai" <scrow2@...> wrote:
            >
            > I got the universal model- fits a PC800, CB250, and a Suzuki V-Strom so far. I really like it- I used to use the bike axles suspended on kitchen chair backs or identical 5 gallon buckets. It is a quality item- follow the directions and don't crank the wing nuts down too hard so they don't leave indents, and it should last forever. I remember seeing a balancer made using 4 roller skate bearings and mounting them so that the ends of an axle sits between two of them on each end.
            >
            > The post about the Dyna beads clumping is what I was talking about- when removing an old tire, when mounting the new tire, and when setting the bead some sort of lubrication is used (I use silicone spray- an idea from the CB250 forum files). Whatever you use for lubrication, it is hard not to get some inside the tires, thus contaminating the beads and having them clump.
            >
            > Mike
            >

            I recently changed tires on two bikes (PC800 and V-Strom, using the dyna beads by pouring them into the tires just before inflating to set the beads. So far, about 1500 miles later, they seem to work great and I haven't had any of the "incorrect pressure reading" problems from beads sticking in the valve stems.

            I use Tire Slick ( http://www.tireslick.com/ ), which is a professional tire lube that has no water or petroleum products. It stays where it's put on the tire beads, so clumping wasn't a problem.

            Michael
          • Alfred W
            http://www.dynabeads.co.uk 14,10 Pound 1 x 1oz Bag 1 x 2oz Bag 1 x Instructions - excl. shipping. 1 oz for front and 2 oz for back but only just. Put some
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 12, 2010
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              http://www.dynabeads.co.uk 14,10 Pound 1 x 1oz Bag 1 x 2oz Bag 1 x Instructions - excl. shipping.
              1 oz for front and 2 oz for back but only just. Put some less in back and some more up front.

              Dyna Beads website: http://www.innovativebalancing.com
              There is a list of dealers in other countries on this site.

              I am going to try them also but still wonder if I can get the 0,5 mm beads somewhere cheap for other applications like grinding or filtering. Bigger beads may damage I guess. Ceramics is self sharpening. It was advised to ask the bigger tire centers. Motor-sport businesses also sell similar products.

              They are supposed to work really well on bigger wheels, like on motorbikes and weights are attached higher, may also come loose. It works dynamically where weights are attached only ones.

              Realize however that the beads do not seem to work with driving high speeds. At 110 km/hr or so, their weight gets spread evenly due to the centrifugal force. This only applies to wheels that are not in balance and would have had a balancing problem without the beads. One may use conventional balancing together with the beads.

              It is no use at all to add them to an existing tire configuration. You do not know if any grease or water is present at the inside. Grease can be cleaned. To avoid water in a tire, something you always should, use nitrogen. The site of Dynabeads advertises this for obvious reasons. Air filling stations along the road may have lots of water in their system. I do not fill when it rains to avoid moisture.

              Among the downsides is that the tire should not be very soft on the inside. Racing tires and inner tubes are excluded for that reason. I believe to have read that a filter is not necessary for our valves.



              --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "pc800man@..." <pc800man@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am looking for info on the beads,balls or magic powder that you install in your tires to balance your wheels. The name of the product and a dealer name would be great.Thank you
              >
            • Dave
              I use airsoft BB s to balance my tires. See the photo in PC800 Darksider called balancing bb s. I purchased the heaviest, hardest, and most durable ones that I
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 12, 2010
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                I use airsoft BB's to balance my tires. See the photo in PC800 Darksider called balancing bb's. I purchased the heaviest, hardest, and most durable ones that I could find. They are made by TSD Tactical, are 6mm(about .24 caliber) and weigh .28 grams each(101/ounce). I purchased mine from pyramydair.com(888-262-4867) for $19.95 + shipping. This was for 5000 bb's which is about 49.5 ounces, hopefully enough for all my vehicles forever. They also offer them in smaller quantities at $5.95/1000. I have now ran them 12,000 + miles with good results. Changed a tire after 2,000 miles and reused them as they showed absolutely no wear. I refer to the dynabead chart for the amount to use in each tire. I just put them in the tire after mounting, but before seating the bead. They will not plug a valve stem due to their size. Enjoy fun and safe riding!! Dave "YT" Hoover(aka-shotcoy)


                --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "pc800man@..." <pc800man@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am looking for info on the beads,balls or magic powder that you install in your tires to balance your wheels. The name of the product and a dealer name would be great.Thank you
                >
              • csury@yahoo.com
                I just changed my rear tire in the driveway a few days ago, installed a BF Goodrich Radial TA 155/80-15 and balanced it using green plastic Crossman Soft-Air
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 19, 2010
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                  I just changed my rear tire in the driveway a few days ago, installed a BF Goodrich Radial TA 155/80-15 and balanced it using green plastic Crossman Soft-Air BB pellets.

                  The pellets were just $9 for 2,000 pellets, and at .12 grams per pellet, it worked out to about 550 pellets to get about 2-1/4 ounces to balance the rear tire. I fed the pellets into the tire between the rim and the tire bead after spooning the tire on the rim, and before using air to seat the bead onto the rim. If you go this route, just make sure you don't get any pellets stuck between the tire bead and the rim.

                  I thought it might have been snake oil at first, but it seems to work just fine. The ride is perfectly smooth at highway speeds, and you don't hear the pellets swirling around inside the tire. I'm happy with the results and will do the same when I change out the front tire in a few weeks.







                  --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "pc800man@..." <pc800man@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am looking for info on the beads,balls or magic powder that you install in your tires to balance your wheels. The name of the product and a dealer name would be great.Thank you
                  >
                • Alfred W
                  That is good news C. Now for the slow driving lady or guy that has a true balancing problem and is able to solves that with those beads. Such has been proven
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 20, 2010
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                    That is good news C. Now for the slow driving lady or guy that has a true balancing problem and is able to solves that with those beads. Such has been proven already (unless at great speed it works) but is nice to hear anyway. Unbalancing a wheel without beads (biets) is not to difficult by the way. I am going to try this, within 2000 miles, because the balancing weight in a tire is lower as the lead on the rim. My new tire will probably have beads that you can buy to fill teddy-bear. Are the pallets you described not light in weight, yellow and 1/2 a cm wide? For a toy gun with a spring? Shooting this is not allowed in Holland but I do have them here. It looks to be much to light in weight and just could be .12 grams. Describe what you have got. - I remember riding my small scooter and a child suddenly pointing such gun at me while his father was buying a car, me braking and two cars behind me hit one another. Everybody mad. - That is also a terrible big size. The teddy-bear filling is 1/3 to 1/2 as wide and I will take the bigger pearls out. I do not know the costs because I had the bag for free. I have a permit to collect materials in garbage. Alfred

                    --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, csury@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I just changed my rear tire in the driveway a few days ago, installed a BF Goodrich Radial TA 155/80-15 and balanced it using green plastic Crossman Soft-Air BB pellets.
                    >
                    > The pellets were just $9 for 2,000 pellets, and at .12 grams per pellet, it worked out to about 550 pellets to get about 2-1/4 ounces to balance the rear tire. I fed the pellets into the tire between the rim and the tire bead after spooning the tire on the rim, and before using air to seat the bead onto the rim. If you go this route, just make sure you don't get any pellets stuck between the tire bead and the rim.
                    >
                    > I thought it might have been snake oil at first, but it seems to work just fine. The ride is perfectly smooth at highway speeds, and you don't hear the pellets swirling around inside the tire. I'm happy with the results and will do the same when I change out the front tire in a few weeks.
                    >
                    >
                  • csury@yahoo.com
                    The BB pellets are about 6 mm in diameter, plastic, weigh .12 grams each, and are sold for guns that shoot with compressed air or CO2 cartridges. I guess they
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 20, 2010
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                      The BB pellets are about 6 mm in diameter, plastic, weigh .12 grams each, and are sold for guns that shoot with compressed air or CO2 cartridges. I guess they would also work in spring-loaded toy guns. Mine are green, but I've seen similar sold in all colours. Wiki has an article on them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft_pellets

                      I regularly travel on the highway at speeds of 130 kmph (80 mph) for long periods of time. They seem to work at that speed just as well as around town, so I guess they're good for more than slow driving ladies. I have yet to put the PC on the race track so I can't vouch for race speeds. ;-)


                      --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "Alfred W" <alfred.wams@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > That is good news C. Now for the slow driving lady or guy that has a true balancing problem and is able to solves that with those beads. Such has been proven already (unless at great speed it works) but is nice to hear anyway. Unbalancing a wheel without beads (biets) is not to difficult by the way. I am going to try this, within 2000 miles, because the balancing weight in a tire is lower as the lead on the rim. My new tire will probably have beads that you can buy to fill teddy-bear. Are the pallets you described not light in weight, yellow and 1/2 a cm wide? For a toy gun with a spring? Shooting this is not allowed in Holland but I do have them here. It looks to be much to light in weight and just could be .12 grams. Describe what you have got. - I remember riding my small scooter and a child suddenly pointing such gun at me while his father was buying a car, me braking and two cars behind me hit one another. Everybody mad. - That is also a terrible big size. The teddy-bear filling is 1/3 to 1/2 as wide and I will take the bigger pearls out. I do not know the costs because I had the bag for free. I have a permit to collect materials in garbage. Alfred
                      >
                      > --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, csury@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I just changed my rear tire in the driveway a few days ago, installed a BF Goodrich Radial TA 155/80-15 and balanced it using green plastic Crossman Soft-Air BB pellets.
                      > >
                      > > The pellets were just $9 for 2,000 pellets, and at .12 grams per pellet, it worked out to about 550 pellets to get about 2-1/4 ounces to balance the rear tire. I fed the pellets into the tire between the rim and the tire bead after spooning the tire on the rim, and before using air to seat the bead onto the rim. If you go this route, just make sure you don't get any pellets stuck between the tire bead and the rim.
                      > >
                      > > I thought it might have been snake oil at first, but it seems to work just fine. The ride is perfectly smooth at highway speeds, and you don't hear the pellets swirling around inside the tire. I'm happy with the results and will do the same when I change out the front tire in a few weeks.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Dave
                      csury: Thanks for the report on wheel balancing and the car tire. Did you have any trouble seating the bead on the car tire? How many psi did it take to seat
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 20, 2010
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                        csury: Thanks for the report on wheel balancing and the car tire. Did you have any trouble seating the bead on the car tire? How many psi did it take to seat the bead? Glad to hear you are enjoying a smooth ride. Enjoy fun & safe riding! Dave "YT" Hoover

                        --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, csury@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I just changed my rear tire in the driveway a few days ago, installed a BF Goodrich Radial TA 155/80-15 and balanced it using green plastic Crossman Soft-Air BB pellets.
                        >
                        > The pellets were just $9 for 2,000 pellets, and at .12 grams per pellet, it worked out to about 550 pellets to get about 2-1/4 ounces to balance the rear tire. I fed the pellets into the tire between the rim and the tire bead after spooning the tire on the rim, and before using air to seat the bead onto the rim. If you go this route, just make sure you don't get any pellets stuck between the tire bead and the rim.
                        >
                        > I thought it might have been snake oil at first, but it seems to work just fine. The ride is perfectly smooth at highway speeds, and you don't hear the pellets swirling around inside the tire. I'm happy with the results and will do the same when I change out the front tire in a few weeks.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "pc800man@" <pc800man@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I am looking for info on the beads,balls or magic powder that you install in your tires to balance your wheels. The name of the product and a dealer name would be great.Thank you
                        > >
                        >
                      • csury@yahoo.com
                        Seating the bead was the toughest part of the whole exercise. The tire had no problem holding air and inflating, but a foot-long part of the tire bead on each
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 20, 2010
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                          Seating the bead was the toughest part of the whole exercise. The tire had no problem holding air and inflating, but a foot-long part of the tire bead on each side of the tire just didn't want to pop over the bead seating hump on the inside of the rim. Soaping the bead and rim didn't help. I tried deflating and recentering the tire on the rim prior to reinflating, but that didn't help either.

                          My solution was to inflate the tire to about 70 pounds, pour some liquid dish soap into the part of the bead that would not seat, deflate the tire to let the soap work down a bit more between the bead and the rim hump, then reinflate to 70 pounds and wait a few minutes. After 2 repeats of this, the bead on one side of the tire was fully seated. After 2 more repeats, the tire bead on the other side of the tire suddenly popped into place, spraying dish soap all over my pants.

                          Then it was just a matter of dropping the tire pressure down to 34 psi for road use and washing off the tire and rim. All that soap on the tire made for real easy clean-up.





                          --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <shotcoy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > csury: Thanks for the report on wheel balancing and the car tire. Did you have any trouble seating the bead on the car tire? How many psi did it take to seat the bead? Glad to hear you are enjoying a smooth ride. Enjoy fun & safe riding! Dave "YT" Hoover
                        • Dave
                          csury: It sounds like wisdom, good judgement, perseverance, and patience paid off in your attempts to seat the bead on your car tire. Mine seated at 71
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 21, 2010
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                            csury: It sounds like wisdom, good judgement, perseverance, and patience paid off in your attempts to seat the bead on your car tire. Mine seated at 71 psi(after attempts at 50 & 60 psi had failed). There are many "tricks" you can use to help you get it seated. Many have used/swear by ky jelly(believe it or not) as a lubricant. We used pine-sol as a lubricant on mine. Polishing and/or buffing the rim bead also helps. Applying your choosen lubricant to both the tire and wheel surfaces also helps. Warming the tire in the hot sun(or some other safe method)can also help. Best of luck with your new tire/ride!! Enjoy fun and safe riding!! Dave "YT" Hoover

                            --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, csury@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Seating the bead was the toughest part of the whole exercise. The tire had no problem holding air and inflating, but a foot-long part of the tire bead on each side of the tire just didn't want to pop over the bead seating hump on the inside of the rim. Soaping the bead and rim didn't help. I tried deflating and recentering the tire on the rim prior to reinflating, but that didn't help either.
                            >
                            > My solution was to inflate the tire to about 70 pounds, pour some liquid dish soap into the part of the bead that would not seat, deflate the tire to let the soap work down a bit more between the bead and the rim hump, then reinflate to 70 pounds and wait a few minutes. After 2 repeats of this, the bead on one side of the tire was fully seated. After 2 more repeats, the tire bead on the other side of the tire suddenly popped into place, spraying dish soap all over my pants.
                            >
                            > Then it was just a matter of dropping the tire pressure down to 34 psi for road use and washing off the tire and rim. All that soap on the tire made for real easy clean-up.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <shotcoy@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > csury: Thanks for the report on wheel balancing and the car tire. Did you have any trouble seating the bead on the car tire? How many psi did it take to seat the bead? Glad to hear you are enjoying a smooth ride. Enjoy fun & safe riding! Dave "YT" Hoover
                            >
                          • jwswingle@aol.com
                            I m no chemist, but Pinesol may cause damage to the rubber long term. It s name says it all, it uses some of the solvent qualities of pine tar/turpentine as
                            Message 13 of 27 , Aug 22, 2010
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                              I'm no chemist, but Pinesol may cause damage to the rubber long term. It's name says it all, it uses some of the solvent qualities of pine tar/turpentine as part of its charms-and I keep Hydrocarbon chemical solvents away from my tires. KY sounds brilliant-water soluble, so it dries out, and if you've ever had any left dry somewhere, you know it acts as a glue-nurses glue small bits on their uniform hats (knowing it will come back off if re-wetted).
                              WIKI quote:
                              As of 2008, the currently available original formulation lists 8-10% pine oil, alkyl alcohol ethoxylates, sodium petroleum sulfonate and isopropanol as reportable ingredients on the material safety data sheet

                              Any chemist here who can tell if this would degrade rubber?

                              further Wiki reading makes me wonder about K-Ys use too, what with the alcohol derivatives in it...although since it is meant in most cases now to conact the most sensitive blood enriched areas of the body, it can't be too bad for rubber-or can it?
                              K-Y NG uses glycerin and hydroxyethyl cellulose as the lubricant, with chlorhexidine gluconate, glucono delta-lactone, methylparaben and sodium hydroxide as antiseptic and preservative additives. The liquid form of the product combines glycerin with propylene glycol, sorbitol, and Natrosol 250H (a brand of hydroxyethyl cellulose) for lubrication, with benzoic acid, methylparaben and sodium hydroxide as additives. An alternative glycerin-free formulation marketed as "K-Y Ultra" contains propylene glycol, sorbitol, Natrosol 250H and polysorbate 60 for lubrication, benzoic acid and methylparaben as preservatives, and vitamin E.

                              Jon








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                            • pc800va
                              If you know an electrician, ask for a handful of wire-pulling lube. It s water soluble and safe on plastic & rubber (like wire insulation). Some are snot-clear
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 22, 2010
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                                If you know an electrician, ask for a handful of wire-pulling lube. It's water soluble and safe on plastic & rubber (like wire insulation).
                                Some are snot-clear others yellow and blue.
                                Also good for de-mounting.
                              • mkerr
                                My personal favorite is Tire Slick (from tireslick.com). It works well and a gallon will probably last a lifetime. Plus they sell the applicators tire
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 23, 2010
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                                  My personal favorite is Tire Slick (from tireslick.com). It works well and a gallon will probably last a lifetime. Plus they sell the applicators tire professionals use, which makes putting slick on the tire and rim at the same time a snap.

                                  Michael Kerr

                                  --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, jwswingle@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I'm no chemist, but Pinesol may cause damage to the rubber long term. It's name says it all, it uses some of the solvent qualities of pine tar/turpentine as part of its charms-and I keep Hydrocarbon chemical solvents away from my tires. KY sounds brilliant-water soluble, so it dries out, and if you've ever had any left dry somewhere, you know it acts as a glue-nurses glue small bits on their uniform hats (knowing it will come back off if re-wetted).
                                  > WIKI quote:
                                  > As of 2008, the currently available original formulation lists 8-10% pine oil, alkyl alcohol ethoxylates, sodium petroleum sulfonate and isopropanol as reportable ingredients on the material safety data sheet
                                  >
                                  > Any chemist here who can tell if this would degrade rubber?
                                  >
                                  > further Wiki reading makes me wonder about K-Ys use too, what with the alcohol derivatives in it...although since it is meant in most cases now to conact the most sensitive blood enriched areas of the body, it can't be too bad for rubber-or can it?
                                  > K-Y NG uses glycerin and hydroxyethyl cellulose as the lubricant, with chlorhexidine gluconate, glucono delta-lactone, methylparaben and sodium hydroxide as antiseptic and preservative additives. The liquid form of the product combines glycerin with propylene glycol, sorbitol, and Natrosol 250H (a brand of hydroxyethyl cellulose) for lubrication, with benzoic acid, methylparaben and sodium hydroxide as additives. An alternative glycerin-free formulation marketed as "K-Y Ultra" contains propylene glycol, sorbitol, Natrosol 250H and polysorbate 60 for lubrication, benzoic acid and methylparaben as preservatives, and vitamin E.
                                  >
                                  > Jon
                                  >
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