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Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

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  • inty_michael
    ... Is it somehow possible to make The Dreadnaught Factor running on a PAL console using the CC3?
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 1 3:48 AM
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      --- In intvprog@yahoogroups.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
      > their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
      > shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
      > PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Chad
      >
      Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
      CC3?
    • David Harley
      Which games are not PAL friendly? Is Motocross the only other one that does not work?
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1 7:10 AM
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        Which games are not PAL friendly? Is Motocross the only other one that
        does not work?


        inty_michael wrote:
        > --- In intvprog@yahoogroups.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Hi,
        >>
        >> I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
        >> their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
        >> shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
        >> PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
        >>
        >> Thanks,
        >> Chad
        >>
        >>
        > Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
        > CC3?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Joe Zbiciak
        As I recall, the Dreadnaught Factor doesn t run on PAL due to a timing bug in the game s initialization code. The CC3 faithfully reproduces actual cartridges,
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1 7:49 AM
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          As I recall, the Dreadnaught Factor doesn't run on PAL due to a timing bug in the game's initialization code.  The CC3 faithfully reproduces actual cartridges, though.  So, it won't magically fix this bug.  (In fact, this timing bug kept Dreadnaught Factor from booting on early versions of jzIntv.)

          That said, if someone comes up with a patch to fix the timing issue in its startup code, then the patch can be trivially applied to the ROM.  Once it's patched, it'll run on PAL Intys whether you're using a CC3, an Intellicart, or Kinty in PAL mode.  :-)

          I guess I should seriously consider adding a PAL mode to jzIntv, eh?

          The patch itself can be applied somewhat trivially.  The CFG parser in jzIntv supports the "[macro]" section to a limited degree.  Most importantly, it can apply the "poke" commands in that section.  I believe I apply these by default in both jzIntv and jzIntv's "bin2rom" program.

          For example, Venture won't run on an Inty 2 by default.  But, if you add these lines to Venture's CFG file, it will:

          [macro]
          @p 500C C0

          A similar mechanism could be used to patch Dreadnaught Factor once a patch is developed.

          Regards,

          --Joe
           
          --
          We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
          http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
          http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
          http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: inty_michael <gucky@...>
          To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 5:48:10 AM
          Subject: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

          --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
          > their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
          > shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
          > PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Chad
          >
          Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
          CC3?


        • Joe Zbiciak
          I believe Super Pro Football and one of the versions of Chip Shot Golf are not 100% PAL friendly. -- We sell Spatulas, and that s all!
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1 7:51 AM
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            I believe Super Pro Football and one of the versions of Chip Shot Golf are not 100% PAL friendly.
             
            --
            We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
            http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
            http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
            http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: David Harley <dharley@...>
            To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 9:10:06 AM
            Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

            Which games are not PAL friendly? Is Motocross the only other one that
            does not work?

            inty_michael wrote:

            > --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Hi,
            >>
            >> I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
            >> their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
            >> shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
            >> PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
            >>
            >> Thanks,
            >> Chad
            >>
            >>
            > Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
            > CC3?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


          • inty_michael
            ... friendly. ... Dreadnaught Factor and the Mattel version of Motocross (the Intv version is fixed) didn´t work properly on PAL consoles. I own Super Pro
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 1 9:00 AM
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              --- In intvprog@yahoogroups.com, Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@...> wrote:
              >
              > I believe Super Pro Football and one of the versions of Chip Shot Golf are not 100% PAL
              friendly.
              >

              Dreadnaught Factor and the Mattel version of Motocross (the Intv version is fixed) didn´t
              work properly on PAL consoles.
              I own Super Pro Football & Chip Shot Golf, but with these games I found nothing wrong.
              But I played them not yery often. ;-)
            • Joe Zbiciak
              Maybe the SP Football issue was an Inty 2-only issue. There was some sort of errata that the quarterback might not appear on-screen until after a hike. -- We
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 1 10:18 AM
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                Maybe the SP Football issue was an Inty 2-only issue.  There was some sort of errata that the quarterback might not appear on-screen until after a hike. 
                 
                --
                We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
                http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
                http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: inty_michael <gucky@...>
                To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 11:00:33 AM
                Subject: {Disarmed} [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@... > wrote:
                >
                > I believe Super Pro Football and one of the versions of Chip Shot Golf are not 100% PAL
                friendly.
                >

                Dreadnaught Factor and the Mattel version of Motocross (the Intv version is fixed) didn´t
                work properly on PAL consoles.
                I own Super Pro Football & Chip Shot Golf, but with these games I found nothing wrong.
                But I played them not yery often. ;-)


              • Joe Zbiciak
                All, I figured out the Dreadnaught Factor issue, but I don t yet have a fix. It appears DF uses a flag at location $102 to indicate what phase of operation
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 1 11:09 AM
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                  All,

                  I figured out the Dreadnaught Factor issue, but I don't yet have a fix.  It appears DF uses a flag at location $102 to indicate what phase of operation the main ISR loop is in.  It normally cycles between 0, 1 and 2.  There are several synchronization loops that look for $102 to hold the value 0.

                  When the game wants the ISR to "do something special," such as load a GRAM image or the like, it loads $FF into location $102, and a command elsewhere ($103, I think).  The ISR then jumps over to do the "special thing" and then resumes normal activity.  Because $FF rolls back over to $00, this all happens naturally.

                  Why does this fail on PAL?

                  The problem is that some of the commands take more than one display cycle to execute.  That's fine for the most part.  Those commands disable interrupts while they execute and enable them before they return.  It's not immediately obvious why the code should fail on PAL and work on NTSC.

                  The thing is, it's by sheer luck that the code works on NTSC, and here's why:  The CP-1600 truly ignores interrupts while they're disabled.  If an interrupt source deasserts INTRQ (that is, it stops trying to interrupt the CPU), then the CPU will not take an interrupt when interrupts get re-enabled.  The STIC only asserts INTRQ for a fixed number of cycles.  Why is this important?

                  When Dreadnaught Factor sets itself up, it copies over a GRAM image containing the graphics for the planet display, etc.  While this happens, a short loop spins looking for $102 to become 0.  When the interrupt occurs that executes the GRAM-load request, the ISR executes it and returns.  On an NTSC Inty, it happens to return when no interrupt is asserted.  Therefore this loop gets to see $102 containing 0, and life goes on.  On a PAL Inty, it just so happens to return right while the STIC is still asserting an interrupt.  So, right upon arriving back at the interrupted code, the CPU jumps right back to the interrupt handler, increments location $102 to now hold 1, and then returns.

                  Furthermore, the ISR relies on the foreground code to reset the count from 2 back to 0 each time.  I'm guessing this allows for the foreground code to get a little behind if there was a bunch of stuff it needed to catch up on, I dunno.  But, the upshot is that the count at $102 just keeps going from $1 through $FF and back to $1, never reaching 0, as far as the synchronization loop is concerned.

                  That, friends, is why Dreadnaught Factor doesn't work on PAL, and why it's lucky it works on NTSC.

                  I don't know an easy fix off the top of my head, but at least I know what the problem is.

                  Regards,

                  --Joe
                   
                  --
                  We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                  http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
                  http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
                  http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@...>
                  To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 9:49:40 AM
                  Subject: Re: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                  As I recall, the Dreadnaught Factor doesn't run on PAL due to a timing bug in the game's initialization code.  The CC3 faithfully reproduces actual cartridges, though.  So, it won't magically fix this bug.  (In fact, this timing bug kept Dreadnaught Factor from booting on early versions of jzIntv.)

                  That said, if someone comes up with a patch to fix the timing issue in its startup code, then the patch can be trivially applied to the ROM.  Once it's patched, it'll run on PAL Intys whether you're using a CC3, an Intellicart, or Kinty in PAL mode.  :-)

                  I guess I should seriously consider adding a PAL mode to jzIntv, eh?

                  The patch itself can be applied somewhat trivially.  The CFG parser in jzIntv supports the "[macro]" section to a limited degree.  Most importantly, it can apply the "poke" commands in that section.  I believe I apply these by default in both jzIntv and jzIntv's "bin2rom" program.

                  For example, Venture won't run on an Inty 2 by default.  But, if you add these lines to Venture's CFG file, it will:

                  [macro]
                  @p 500C C0

                  A similar mechanism could be used to patch Dreadnaught Factor once a patch is developed.

                  Regards,

                  --Joe
                   
                  --
                  We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                  http://spatula- city.org/ ~im14u2c/
                  http://sdk-1600. spatula-city. org/
                  http://intyos. spatula-city. org/


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: inty_michael <gucky@macnews. de>
                  To: intvprog@yahoogroup s.com
                  Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 5:48:10 AM
                  Subject: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                  --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
                  > their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
                  > shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
                  > PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Chad
                  >
                  Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
                  CC3?



                • Joe Zbiciak
                  Ok, the following .CFG file seems to make Dreadnaught Factor work for me on my hacked copy of jzIntv. (I took a stab at PAL timings that I know aren t 100%
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 1 11:33 AM
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                    Ok, the following .CFG file seems to make Dreadnaught Factor work for me on my hacked copy of jzIntv.  (I took a stab at PAL timings that I know aren't 100% right, but what the hey, eh?)

                    [mapping]
                    $0000 - $1FFF = $5000               ; map first 8k to $5000 - $6FFF

                    [memattr]
                    $D000 - $D0FF = ROM 16

                    [macro]
                    @p 5cb5 734a
                    @p d000 02b8
                    @p d001 d009
                    @p d002 0240
                    @p d003 0100
                    @p d004 0040
                    @p d005 0240
                    @p d006 0101
                    @p d007 0220
                    @p d008 72c6
                    @p d009 02b8
                    @p d00a 5ca9
                    @p d00b 0240
                    @p d00c 0100
                    @p d00d 0040
                    @p d00e 0240
                    @p d00f 0101
                    @p d010 0220
                    @p d011 bffd


                    If you use this CFG file with jzIntv's "rom2bin" utility, you'll get a .ROM file that will run on PAL.  You can use "bin2rom" to get back a pure .BIN file with the patch applied.

                    Tada,

                    --Joe
                     
                    --
                    We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                    http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
                    http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
                    http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@...>
                    To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 1:09:44 PM
                    Subject: Re: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                    All,

                    I figured out the Dreadnaught Factor issue, but I don't yet have a fix.  It appears DF uses a flag at location $102 to indicate what phase of operation the main ISR loop is in.  It normally cycles between 0, 1 and 2.  There are several synchronization loops that look for $102 to hold the value 0.

                    When the game wants the ISR to "do something special," such as load a GRAM image or the like, it loads $FF into location $102, and a command elsewhere ($103, I think).  The ISR then jumps over to do the "special thing" and then resumes normal activity.  Because $FF rolls back over to $00, this all happens naturally.

                    Why does this fail on PAL?

                    The problem is that some of the commands take more than one display cycle to execute.  That's fine for the most part.  Those commands disable interrupts while they execute and enable them before they return.  It's not immediately obvious why the code should fail on PAL and work on NTSC.

                    The thing is, it's by sheer luck that the code works on NTSC, and here's why:  The CP-1600 truly ignores interrupts while they're disabled.  If an interrupt source deasserts INTRQ (that is, it stops trying to interrupt the CPU), then the CPU will not take an interrupt when interrupts get re-enabled.  The STIC only asserts INTRQ for a fixed number of cycles.  Why is this important?

                    When Dreadnaught Factor sets itself up, it copies over a GRAM image containing the graphics for the planet display, etc.  While this happens, a short loop spins looking for $102 to become 0.  When the interrupt occurs that executes the GRAM-load request, the ISR executes it and returns.  On an NTSC Inty, it happens to return when no interrupt is asserted.  Therefore this loop gets to see $102 containing 0, and life goes on.  On a PAL Inty, it just so happens to return right while the STIC is still asserting an interrupt.  So, right upon arriving back at the interrupted code, the CPU jumps right back to the interrupt handler, increments location $102 to now hold 1, and then returns.

                    Furthermore, the ISR relies on the foreground code to reset the count from 2 back to 0 each time.  I'm guessing this allows for the foreground code to get a little behind if there was a bunch of stuff it needed to catch up on, I dunno.  But, the upshot is that the count at $102 just keeps going from $1 through $FF and back to $1, never reaching 0, as far as the synchronization loop is concerned.

                    That, friends, is why Dreadnaught Factor doesn't work on PAL, and why it's lucky it works on NTSC.

                    I don't know an easy fix off the top of my head, but at least I know what the problem is.

                    Regards,

                    --Joe
                     
                    --
                    We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                    http://spatula- city.org/ ~im14u2c/
                    http://sdk-1600. spatula-city. org/
                    http://intyos. spatula-city. org/


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@yahoo. com>
                    To: intvprog@yahoogroup s.com
                    Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 9:49:40 AM
                    Subject: Re: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                    As I recall, the Dreadnaught Factor doesn't run on PAL due to a timing bug in the game's initialization code.  The CC3 faithfully reproduces actual cartridges, though.  So, it won't magically fix this bug.  (In fact, this timing bug kept Dreadnaught Factor from booting on early versions of jzIntv.)

                    That said, if someone comes up with a patch to fix the timing issue in its startup code, then the patch can be trivially applied to the ROM.  Once it's patched, it'll run on PAL Intys whether you're using a CC3, an Intellicart, or Kinty in PAL mode.  :-)

                    I guess I should seriously consider adding a PAL mode to jzIntv, eh?

                    The patch itself can be applied somewhat trivially.  The CFG parser in jzIntv supports the "[macro]" section to a limited degree.  Most importantly, it can apply the "poke" commands in that section.  I believe I apply these by default in both jzIntv and jzIntv's "bin2rom" program.

                    For example, Venture won't run on an Inty 2 by default.  But, if you add these lines to Venture's CFG file, it will:

                    [macro]
                    @p 500C C0

                    A similar mechanism could be used to patch Dreadnaught Factor once a patch is developed.

                    Regards,

                    --Joe
                     
                    --
                    We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                    http://spatula- city.org/ ~im14u2c/
                    http://sdk-1600. spatula-city. org/
                    http://intyos. spatula-city. org/


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: inty_michael <gucky@macnews. de>
                    To: intvprog@yahoogroup s.com
                    Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 5:48:10 AM
                    Subject: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                    --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, "cschell13" <gamer@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > I need to make sure that the CC3 works with PAL Intellivisions given
                    > their different bus timings. As I'd like to save on the costs of
                    > shipping prototypes around, I'm wondering if anyone in the US has a
                    > PAL Inty in their collection and would be willing to test a CC3 for me.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Chad
                    >
                    Is it somehow possible to make "The Dreadnaught Factor" running on a PAL console using the
                    CC3?




                  • inty_michael
                    ... hacked copy of jzIntv. (I took a stab at PAL timings that I know aren t 100% right, but what the hey, eh?) ... on PAL. You can use bin2rom to get back
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 1 12:54 PM
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                      --- In intvprog@yahoogroups.com, Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ok, the following .CFG file seems to make Dreadnaught Factor work for me on my
                      hacked copy of jzIntv. (I took a stab at PAL timings that I know aren't 100% right, but what
                      the hey, eh?)
                      >
                      > [mapping]
                      > $0000 - $1FFF = $5000 ; map first 8k to $5000 - $6FFF
                      >
                      > [memattr]
                      > $D000 - $D0FF = ROM 16
                      >
                      > [macro]
                      > @p 5cb5 734a
                      > @p d000 02b8
                      > @p d001 d009
                      > @p d002 0240
                      > @p d003 0100
                      > @p d004 0040
                      > @p d005 0240
                      > @p d006 0101
                      > @p d007 0220
                      > @p d008 72c6
                      > @p d009 02b8
                      > @p d00a 5ca9
                      > @p d00b 0240
                      > @p d00c 0100
                      > @p d00d 0040
                      > @p d00e 0240
                      > @p d00f 0101
                      > @p d010 0220
                      > @p d011 bffd
                      >
                      >
                      > If you use this CFG file with jzIntv's "rom2bin" utility, you'll get a .ROM file that will run
                      on PAL. You can use "bin2rom" to get back a pure .BIN file with the patch applied.
                      >
                      > Tada,
                      >
                      > --Joe
                      >

                      Great work Joe!
                      Is there a utility for the Mac wich can handle this config?
                      Or can you send me a patched rom? I will test it then on a PAL Intellivision.

                      Thank you again for this work!
                      I wait for years to play Dreadnaught Factor properly on an PAL Inty!
                    • Joe Zbiciak
                      The Mac build of jzIntv includes these command line utilities in the bin directory. If you re not comfortable working with the command line, contact me off
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 1 4:38 PM
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                        The Mac build of jzIntv includes these command line utilities in the "bin" directory.  If you're not comfortable working with the command line, contact me off the list and I can give you step by step instructions.
                         
                        --
                        We sell Spatulas, and that's all!
                        http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/
                        http://sdk-1600.spatula-city.org/
                        http://intyos.spatula-city.org/


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: inty_michael <gucky@...>
                        To: intvprog@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 2:54:48 PM
                        Subject: [intvprog] Re: Looking for a PAL Inty in the US

                        --- In intvprog@yahoogroup s.com, Joe Zbiciak <intvnut@... > wrote:
                        >
                        > Ok, the following .CFG file seems to make Dreadnaught Factor work for me on my
                        hacked copy of jzIntv. (I took a stab at PAL timings that I know aren't 100% right, but what
                        the hey, eh?)
                        >
                        > [mapping]
                        > $0000 - $1FFF = $5000 ; map first 8k to $5000 - $6FFF
                        >
                        > [memattr]
                        > $D000 - $D0FF = ROM 16
                        >
                        > [macro]
                        > @p 5cb5 734a
                        > @p d000 02b8
                        > @p d001 d009
                        > @p d002 0240
                        > @p d003 0100
                        > @p d004 0040
                        > @p d005 0240
                        > @p d006 0101
                        > @p d007 0220
                        > @p d008 72c6
                        > @p d009 02b8
                        > @p d00a 5ca9
                        > @p d00b 0240
                        > @p d00c 0100
                        > @p d00d 0040
                        > @p d00e 0240
                        > @p d00f 0101
                        > @p d010 0220
                        > @p d011 bffd
                        >
                        >
                        > If you use this CFG file with jzIntv's "rom2bin" utility, you'll get a .ROM file that will run
                        on PAL. You can use "bin2rom" to get back a pure .BIN file with the patch applied.
                        >
                        > Tada,
                        >
                        > --Joe
                        >

                        Great work Joe!
                        Is there a utility for the Mac wich can handle this config?
                        Or can you send me a patched rom? I will test it then on a PAL Intellivision.

                        Thank you again for this work!
                        I wait for years to play Dreadnaught Factor properly on an PAL Inty!


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