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Alex Jones Interviews Katherine Albrecht

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    Alex Jones Interviews Katherine Albrecht Alex Jones: Joining us is the founder and head of Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering, she is
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 22, 2003
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      Alex Jones Interviews Katherine Albrecht

      Alex Jones: Joining us is the founder and head of Consumers Against
      Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering, she is Katherine Albrecht
      and we are so honored to have you on the show. Hello Katherine, good
      to have you with us.

      Katherine Albrecht: Hello Alex, it's a pleasure to be on with you.

      AJ: We had you on just 2 weeks ago, and you're getting more and more
      documents as you're doing more and more interviews, you've been on
      all around the world. This is a big deal, I know you've got copies of
      the documents. Tell us exactly, what you have discovered are
      incredibly arrogant statements. Frankly from when you were on 3 weeks
      ago, you heard similar statements and a lot of Biblical references
      when you were up in Chicago for a big consortium meeting.

      KA: Well you know the thing that has been happening behind the scenes
      since 1999 when this Auto ID centre first got founded, and to put
      this in perspective for your listeners by the way. The Auto ID
      centre, the folks had a gaping security hole where were able to just
      go in and sell these embarrassing and confidential documents. There
      are actually, it could be argued that they are one of the most
      powerful organisations in the world right now in terms of futuristic

      AJ: Well they're connected to all the people. Wal-Mart got the
      barcodes to become universal in the 80's, they're doing it again by
      forcing all of their manufacturers to adopt this, this will become

      KA: You got it, Wal-Mart being one of the sponsors of the Auto ID
      centre, it comprised now of more than 100 different organisations,
      companies, product manufacturers and retailers all around the world.
      They have gotten together, and for the last 3 years have been meeting
      secretly behind closed doors in these meetings, having discussions.

      AJ: If that's a definition of racketeering I will say it. They are
      colluding to change industry and make us accept the new system with
      additional costs as well. This is racketeering, setting up a new
      industry and then it has the privacy implications.

      KA: The problem here is that it would be one thing if here if they
      were meeting behind closed doors to talk about, I don't know, new
      forms of fork lift or something to develop for the warehouse, but
      what they have developed is something that has the potential to
      influence every single human being on the planet.

      AJ: And they say that in their documents. Tell us about their new
      documents and how you got them, and then we're going to get Paul
      Watson's response to this.

      KA: We have, it's kind of funny, we first stumbled across this huge
      gap in their web site security back in the spring and in fact I had
      quite an astonishing time a few months ago, sitting there saying wait
      a minute, as I was looking up some standard documents and there was
      something confidential at the bottom of a number of them, and wasn't
      that strange, and as I began to open up documents on the web site I
      was astonished at how confidential these documents were. And I'm
      talking about links with emails of everyone who has participated in
      their meetings with telephones numbers…

      AJ: Corporate chieftain's home addresses.

      KA: Yeah, that level of detail.

      AJ: Department of defence goodies, in fact a Canadian researcher just
      found a bunch of NSA stuff posted, it's like their Northwood's
      documents, ever heard of Northwood's the US government terror plan
      thing that got leaked, they admit it's accurate, it talks about
      hijacking jet airliners to crash and blame on foreign enemies. The
      stuff that gets leaked by government and quasi-government. Tell us
      about the group, and exactly who's in it and what's in the documents.

      KA: Well these documents contain everything from board meetings that
      are confidential, secret PowerPoint presentations that they have
      given to say everyone from the Department of Transportation. It has
      references to meeting with Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge. It has
      references to trials; actual store level trials where they are
      putting bugging devices into actual products that people are taking
      home with them. This has been vehemently denied in the media and yet
      these internal documents openly state and specify that this is

      AJ: This is massive and you talked about the public meeting in
      Chicago, they said if we can get Homeland Security to endorse this
      for security, now they're saying they want all the cows and sheep to
      have this, federal inspectors, a whole new level of beaurocracy, a
      security clearance to have any job, I mean this is their control
      grid. Remember I talked about Ridge on C-Span last year, last time
      you were on, Katherine. I had him on tape on C-Span. I've got to dig
      the tape out. I watched this live and he was meeting with corporate
      heads and he talked about this control grid.

      KA: I think this is one of the concerns, that the companies involved
      in this will tell you that their only concern is better efficiency in
      the supply chain, that they're only worried about warehouses and
      transporting things more efficiently.

      AJ: But now they're meeting with Ridge…

      KA: Yeah, and one of things you.., let me just reread that quote that
      I mentioned last time we were on together Alex, and this is a quote
      by Larry Kellen he's a director for B2B Supply Chain Innovation for
      Proctor & Gamble. He gave a whole presentation about how item level
      tagging is going to be the future of RFID. Now item level tagging is
      actually putting gone of these tiny remote transmitter chips on every
      consumer product.

      AJ : Woven in to the clothing…

      KA: Woven into clothing or potentially pressed right into plastic

      AJ: Gillette already has it…Michelin already has it in the tyres.

      KA: Well Gillette is testing it, they putting into packaging but the
      potential is quite large that they would put this right into, I mean
      for something the packaging may as well be the product…

      AJ: Now it's in the Michelin tyre.

      KA: Yes we have seen schematic diagrams and that has been going

      AJ: Let me stop you because we have Paul Watson here and we are so
      honored to him in on, I've been jumping in a lot, just adding titbits
      and want to get into what the documents actually say in the next
      segment. Let's bring Paul Watson, our researcher from England on.
      Paul, any comments on what Katherine has been saying…

      Paul Joseph Watson: Well you mentioned the first interview with
      Katherine, and anyone and can go online and listen to that at
      PrisonPlanet.com in the audio section - the June 20 interview. But
      also we posted just yesterday a picture which one of our Prison
      Planet columnists actually took personally from Wal-Mart and it
      reads, and you can go online and see this now, "To our valued
      customers, for your protection and to bring you low prices we use
      CCTV and electronic merchandising tagging systems" and that's on
      PrisonPlanet.com right now…

      AJ: So there they are trying to push it. Katherine, what do you say
      to that?

      KA: Well you know it is true, and the problem here with Wal-Mart is
      they are putting in these hidden reader devices in shelves and in
      floor tags and we actually have a document that states this is
      happening, they have vehemently denied it and I interviewed with

      AJ: Scanning you as you walk around inside the store and you said the
      cameras watch you when you pick up the Gillette razors

      KA: Well that is one of their stated plans, and let me give you a
      list of products, I have a document right here that specifies at Wal-
      Mart in phase 3 testing, they are testing Caress Soap, Right Guard
      Aerosol deodorants, Pantene shampoo, Huggies Baby Wipes, Coca Cola 2L
      bottles, and of course Gillette products. Now when you look at this
      document that talks about Wal-Mart doing this it actually says that
      for each of these products they are doing a shelf read, now shelf
      read means actually reading the items on the shelf. This means that
      tags must be in the items themselves.

      AJ: I've got to stop you there, that's big, they're in the items
      themselves and they said they weren't doing that.

      KA: Now one of the others is a floor reader, there is a reference to
      a floor read for Coca Cola, and the question we are now raising is… I
      have in my possession right here right now a pair of shoes by a
      company called Foot Star and right on the tag it says "Attention our
      products have theft detection devices embedded which will be
      deactivated at the register or the service desk. If you combine that
      with floor readers you have the potential to read people through
      their shoes.

      AJ: After they leave. And in San Francisco they are using RFID to
      begin taxation off the toll roads, putting the entire city into toll
      roads. Stay there, riveting information, absolutely important, got to
      boycott them now before they put them in everything and there is no
      escaping it and they make it a law that every product has to have it
      unifying the supply chain. Be right back…


      AJ: These documents you've gotten Katherine are just bombshell, and
      of course you've got them and excerpts from them on your website and
      we'll talk about that in a few minutes. What else is in the
      documents, I mean not just how they are already in the shoes and
      they're going to read you. There was an article in the Washington
      Post last year that said they've got pressure plates and cameras that
      read your eye movements, how long you watch something for
      psychological algorythms to be built, psychological dossiers on us,
      that was in the Washington Post. I don't know if you saw that article
      where they admitted all this. But what about their statements about
      pacifying us and about neutralizing opposition and manipulating the
      public, can you tell us about that.

      KA: Sure, I think one of the big problems with the Auto ID centre,
      and hence the over 100 companies affiliated with it right now, is
      that they have an enormous problem with consumers right now, 78% of
      consumers they have studied in their own internal documents have
      stated that they are extremely concerned or somewhat concerned about
      privacy invasion associated with this technology, 61% are concerned
      about electromagnetic energy affecting their physical health. So
      they've got a big problem, and their big problem is called a public
      relations nightmare. They have called in heavy hitter PR firm
      Fleischman Hiller to devise a PR strategy for them, and one of the
      things, they've actually done two things, they've called in
      Fleischman Hiller to come up with a PR strategy, the second thing
      they actually say is a whole bunch of consumers all around the world,
      Japan, Germany, England, The United States, France, and what they've
      found in every case the people surveyed there did not like the
      technology, and in that particular document, Helen Deuce who is their
      researcher over there in England, she actually comes right out and
      says, well in fact at the November board meeting where all these guys
      got together again behind closed doors to talk about this, she
      presented the results of the study, and from what I have been told
      her comment was that "I have some good news and some bad news, the
      bad news is that people really don't like this technology, that's the
      result of my study, the good news is that it appears they will be
      apathetic and they will not know what to do about it unless someone
      comes along and motivates them and wakes them up."

      AJ: Exactly, people don't like the New World Order, but they also
      feel like they're alone, even though we're the majority. It's gun
      control, it's all the issues, the people want their liberties and
      their freedoms but they feel disempowered, but we really have all the
      power, that's my frustration. Paul Watson, we've really got to
      promote Caspian, and we've got to get the word out, I've been talking
      about RFID for 5 years, Texe Marrs for 8 years, people. Watson, got
      any ideas on how to get the word out on this other than this show?

      PJW: Well yeah, Katherine mentioned the fact that this same system
      has been implemented in what we call the Echelon countries,
      specifically my country, but people in this country say we haven't
      got Wal-Mart over here so they are not introducing it, but Wal-Mart
      in fact own the major supermarket store over here which is Asda, so
      it's the same system being implemented across all those countries.
      It's interesting talking about these documents that have just been
      released that lay the groundwork and the quote I read, one of the
      stories that came out today is that these companies talked about how
      they will manage the release of negative stories about RFID, which
      mirrors similar documents that came in another context about the
      European Union two years ago. The introduction of the Euro. It's the
      same agenda talking about how to manage public perception and direct

      AJ: So now they've got your direct apathy, think about how arrogant
      they are to you and your family folks. Katherine…

      KA: Let me tell you one of the ways this is actually, an element of
      their strategic plan is to encourage apathy, one of things in the
      Fleischman Hiller document, one of the many Fleischman Hiller
      documents we have obtained they actually say "emphasise in all public
      communications with the press the inevitability of this technology",
      so emphasise it's coming it's inevitable, there's nothing anybody can
      do to stop it.

      AJ: That's the same thing with the Euro.

      PJW: They use that tactic every time.

      AJ: What did the Borg say, "Resistance is futile, resistance is
      futile, resistance is futile". Lay down GI you won't be seeing your
      sweetheart, lay down Tokyo Rose said. Stay right there Katherine,
      amazing information, I want to hear more about these secret documents
      you've gotten and how they're panicking, we'll be right back.


      AJ: Talking to Katherine Albrecht, we've got my webmaster of
      PrisonPlanet.com, Paul Joseph Watson; we'll be hearing more on the
      show about his upcoming book "Order out of Chaos". We've got Joan,
      Bill and Bob and others that are holding, your calls are coming up in
      a few minutes, I am hyperventilating over this issue, this is such a
      key area in the fight for liberty, it's like open borders, gun
      control, RFID, cashless society, biometrics, these are all the top
      most important issues, strategic things to stop the globalists from
      putting in, and Paul Watson I'm giving you a mission my friend, I
      don't just want an audio file of this interview with Katherine up on
      the website, I am asking our listeners, 3 or 4 of you to do this, I
      want a transcript of this interview posted, because Greg Palast and
      others, the BBC have posted them, the transcripts of this show get
      published in major newspapers around the world, I don't know why, I
      guess interviews are so insightful with these great guests, listeners
      you know who you are, email it to Watson OK, because half the time we
      get so many thousands a day, sometimes I won't see it the first day,
      email it to tips@.... Watson, the transcript of this, where
      shall they email it to get it posted so millions of listeners can
      email it out to folks?

      PJW. They can mail it to paul@... and I'll get that.

      AJ: Alright we'll post it under the Prison Planet headline, this is
      so important, Katherine I know I'm jumping in over you, I get out of
      control on this subject it makes me so mad because I read them years
      ago saying what they would do with this, taxation, control, tracking,
      you've got the internal document. Before we go any further and we got
      these calls, who got the incredible idea at Caspian to go to the site
      to snoop around, not hack it, just look around and find their
      classified documents of this governmental quasi-private group setting
      up this racketeering takeover, how did you get in and get this, tell
      about some of the other secret documents you got?

      KA: Well let me tell you Alex, what I think one of the most
      disturbing parts of this whole thing is that here are the people who
      reassure us that we can trust them to put these tagging devices in
      everything we come in contact with, that we can trust them because
      they are going to use Internet security, and this is actually a quote
      from one of their documents, their public relations documents out to
      the public saying hey, what about security isn't that going to be an
      issue when you put RFID tags in everything and you're tracking
      everything through the internet through these massive databases,
      their response has been "you don't have to worry about that, we've
      got security under control, Internet security is very strong and very

      AJ: …as you go their website…

      KA: .. all of the data will be protected, so I go to their web site,
      you go right to the front page of Auto ID Centre.org, right there you
      will see a little search window, you can type in words you want, and
      it, well now they've cleaned it up, they've sanitized it since
      yesterday, but for many months and potentially even years you could
      type in whatever you wanted and you would get access to their
      internal documents, these people do not have a clue about security,
      they do not have the first idea about how to protect their own
      sensitive information…

      AJ: Katherine, now they're going to tie us all into this grid,
      they're the people, this same grid, these same companies, Wal-Mart
      and others that if pushed for the social security numbers as an
      identifier everywhere now, they admit that has caused the
      proliferation of identity theft, and now they're opening a bigger
      Pandora's box and they'll offer more tracking and tracing, and… I
      mean this is incredible…

      KA: I have to say the amount… I mean the idea of leaving these bozo's
      in charge of my personal data being collected on me every I went
      through RFID tags is enough to send chills down me my spine. I'm not
      just talking about massive corporations or government entities that
      might want to use it against me, but I'm talking about, you don't
      even have to be a hacker to access this kind of information, any
      criminal could go online if they had everything online and you know,
      downloaded anything that wanted about you, this is nuts, they don't
      know what they are doing, we can't trust them with our security, they
      are dangerous, they are dangerous because they don't see the future
      they are creating, they are dangerous because they don't take
      reasonable, even common sense precautions, even to protect their own
      selves, which clearly they have an interest in that.

      AJ : A criminal can also scan box cars, warehouses, homes and find
      out what you've got inside, they admit a lot of these can transmit
      over distances between 2 feet and 100 yards, this is what I've read
      in the mainstream news and remember this all come on the heels of the
      Total Information Awareness Network getting announced by the
      convicted felon Admiral Poindexter with their all seeing eye logo of
      the pyramid and the Pentagon said everything you buy, you sell, you
      email, what you say, will be put in this grand database, that's a
      quote and, now you've got Ridge and these documents meeting with
      them, you go to their public meetings and they say we've got to get
      Homeland Security to be behind this and pushing it, tell us about
      those secret documents please…

      KA: Well the quote I wanted to read to you about Larry Kellen
      said, "if we get a declaration from Homeland Security that this is
      the step that we need to take to protect the food supply, that's the
      step that will move this technology forward"…

      AJ: We're already hearing that out of Ridge.

      KA: …and that was in reference to item level tagging which means
      putting remote tracking devices on every item in the food chain.

      AJ: You said you've got shoes that already have this in it.

      KA: That is correct, I was sent these shoes by someone who purchased
      them in Hawaii of all places, she got concerned because she saw this
      tag on them and sent them to us. Now the company that manufactures
      these shoes, we've not yet by the way X-rayed the shoes to find out
      if we have a tag in there, if anyone has access to an x-ray machine
      and would like to volunteer it to us you can find us online at

      AJ: Well, you're up in Harvard country, I'm down in Texas, my dad is
      a dentist and oral surgeon, I've got skull x-rays that will scan
      those nicely.

      KA: Well hey Alex, I'll send them you're way. You can post them on
      your website, you can be the first to get the information out about
      whether we've found tracking devices in shoes or not.

      AJ: Be sure and insure that, I will call you when I get off air and
      give you the address to send it to. I will within a day of getting
      those will have them x-rayed, and then you want me to dig out with
      tweezers the chip itself and maybe scan that as well?

      KA: Well you know, it will be interesting to know what exactly they
      have put in there, and again for your listeners who may have just
      tuned in and missed that portion, I have in my possession a pair of
      size 7 Soho shoes, these are women's sandals, in an extruded, a kind
      of foam plastic, on them there is an attached tag that
      says "www.footstart.com attention our products have theft detection
      devices embedded that will be deactivated at the register or the
      service desk". That could simply be an electronic, or some other type
      of electronic article surveillance device, it could be an RFID chip,
      at this point we do not know. What we do know though is that this
      company in China has contracted with manufacturing plants in China
      and that they are putting RFID tags or RFID like devices in to China
      and importing them here. So we want to get to the bottom of that. But
      that again is a big question mark, let me get to a few things that
      are certain from this website and from the documents that we have.
      One of them, the Auto ID Centre has said going through four phases of
      testing out their RFID technology, the first and second phases are
      now complete, they are now in the middle of phase 3, and phase 3 is
      item level tagging among other things, meaning putting them into
      individual items, seeing how consumers interact with them, seeing how
      the stores and readers interact with them, seeing what happens when
      they try to read many dozens of things at a time on a shelf in a
      store. Here are the products, I hope that we do get a transcript of
      this, because I would like this to be made public. Here are the
      products that being tagged currently, it says summer of 2003:

      Proctor & Gamble is tagging Bounty Towels and Pantene Shampoo, its
      says Cape Shoe factory Iowa City DC, that means Distribution Centre.
      So Bounty Towels and Pantene Shampoo coming out of there may well be
      tagged. Gillette Mach 3 16 pack, Right Guard aerosol deodorant 10oz
      cans, that's coming out of Chicago. Unilever a major consumer
      products company produces these products that will be tagged Liquid
      All Detergent, Caress Soap, that is coming out of Baltimore. Johnson
      & Johnson is tagging Care Free, I'm not sure what Care Free is, also
      Bedtime Bath out of Olive Branch. Kraft Foods is tagging Maxwell
      House coffee and Kraft Cheese Slices out of Fort Worth and Coca Cola
      is tagging 2L bottles of Coke, and then it has a comma and it says 8
      pack tray, that is out of Cleveland Tennessee, it says bottler there.

      Now when I look at another chart from their internal documents it
      says, Caress Soap 6 pack, Pantene Shampoo 750ml bottle. On the right
      it says Wal-Mart running vertically down between all of these
      products, they are all being tested out at Wal-Mart right now. It
      says unit and case aggregate, that would mean that potentially they
      are talking about back room supplies in the warehouse, and next to it
      is the concern, the shelf read, shelf read means putting the
      individual products on the shelf and making sure you can read each
      individual product. And here's something that has me the most
      concerned, Coca Cola, it says shelf and floor read, now floor readers
      I think are one if the biggest concerns we face with this technology
      Alex, because it has already been demonstrated through research that
      has been done associated with the Auto ID Centre that these reader
      devices can be embedded into floor tiles and carpet, meaning that if,
      and by the way the read range on these, the read range really doesn't
      go down about 20-30 feet unless you put a battery in it or unless you
      hack around a little. The read range is typically about, I would say
      between 5-10 and 15 feet , in that area, but the more powerful
      devices have a shorter read range in some cases. Now if you can put
      RFID tags into shoes, and if you can get away with hiding them in
      shoes and you have radio devices in floors, then there just went away
      your read range problem of 20-30 feet to track people, you simply put
      down a mat at the entrance of your store or wherever it is you want
      to track people and you take a read right off of their shoes.

      AJ: In the Washington Post article last year, and Paul will you dig
      these up and post them in the story when we do a transcript. They
      said that pressure plates will read what you are buying, tiny
      cameras, and I know somebody at UT who works for the CIA in the
      psychology department, Department of Defence funded. It's all about
      retina readers, that read like Blade Runner type movements in the
      eyes that get your psychological read off something you read on a
      package, and it talks about scanning and tracking you and the store
      said that they already have this in the stores in New York is what
      they said, where you go in, you buy something, next time you come in
      they face scan you, they know what you bought last time, or if you're
      wearing the RFID it reactivates it and then they can custom tailor
      things to you, did you hear about that?

      KA: Well you know that's really the idea to find ways to custom
      tailor things to individuals to identity them, I have…

      AJ: …That's what they claim on the surface, yeah.

      KA: I have in my possession a prototype loyalty card that actually
      contains within it an RFID tag that can be read right for your purse,
      backpack or wallet…

      AJ: Well they had the ID in that a few years ago, where the guy, you
      they think he's stealing food, he's putting it in his jacket, he
      walks out and the security comes over and says "Sir, your receipt"

      KA: Exactly, well in that case though the reader device in the
      doorway has read the products that he's carrying and presumably also
      read some identifier of him so that those products could be deducted
      from his payment system, whatever that is.

      AJ: That's an IBM Ad for this new chip, Credit Card. Paul Watson any
      comments as to what she's saying.

      PJW: Yeah, we actually had an article on prisonplanet.com last week
      where one of these RFID tags was actually discovered in women's
      underwear, so we've got all of these products on top of each other,
      but the question now I want to put to Katherine is about Benetton,
      because we know that Katherine led a successful campaign against
      Benetton to boycott Benetton against putting RFID tags in clothes,
      but we recently had an article out of the RFID Journal which is the
      main propaganda organ of RFID where Mauro Benetton actually stated
      that his company were ongoing with the tests of RFID and that
      original back down against that successful campaign was just a

      AJ: Yeah Katherine, that question and then also the quotes here out
      of the news where you have the documents quote "neutralizing
      opposition, pacifying consumers", answer his question and then mine

      KA: Well let's see, the issue with Benetton is that Benetton I think
      was astonished at the speed and power of the firestorm that consumed
      them when they made the announcement that they were going to be
      embedding RFID remote tracking devices in clothing labels. Now that
      is absolutely over the line, I think everyone who heard the story
      agreed, they were inundated with press requests from as far away as
      Tasmania, I was on Swedish public radio, we've been featured in
      Australia, all over the world people went nuts when they heard about
      this. Now what I did not realise at the time apparently is that Mauro
      Benetton, a member of the Benetton family is also deeply involved
      with a company called Lab ID that is developing and promoting this
      label tagging technology, and so apparently our boycott against
      Benetton caused a big family rift in the Benetton family, this is
      what I have been told from inside sources, that Mauro Benetton had
      apparently put in about 15 million dollars to developing this RFID
      tag technology and investing in it, and was going to apparently use
      his families company, Benetton as one of the first examples of
      bringing it to market, and when the rest of the Benetton family had
      heard what had happened right in the middle of this firestorm, they
      said, you know what, I don't care what you have invested we are
      pulling back from this, this is dangerous, we are going to get

      AJ: I don't care if they pull back, Benetton. We must target them
      just like Smith & Wesson when they tried to do this sneaking anti-gun
      move a few years ago. I don't care if they sell it, what they do, we
      must salt the earth, anyone, Wal-Mart everyone, we must boycott them
      110%, all of them.

      KA: You know who I want to call for the biggest boycott of all
      against, is Gillette! Gillette is one of the most despicable
      companies I have ever come into contact with in working with this
      technology. I personally was in a Brockton Wal-Mart, this is another
      story I'll give you a little exclusive on here. I went into the
      Brockton Wal-Mart after reading in the Boston Globe a few weeks ago
      that they were going to begin their shelf level tagging tests the
      following week, so I drove an hour or so down there to get to this
      store, I went into this store, it was in a predominantly minority
      community, that was the first thing that struck my notice, so that
      for example if people felt that their privacy had been violated there
      wouldn't be a whole lot of Manhattan lawyers potentially shopping
      there to sue them…

      AJ: Yes, disenfranchised groups are always tested on first.

      KA: …and I had several lengthy conversations with a family who spoke
      Spanish, I'm also fluent in Spanish, they were also fluent in
      English, so we conversed in both languages about their concerns about
      this technology. I was interacting in that store, I was there for
      over two hours I spent a great deal of time in front of that shelf, I
      even purchased a disposable camera at Wal-Mart and I took photographs
      of that shelf which I now have in my possession. Now the astonishing
      thing to me is that given that there has been 110 media reports or
      Google hits on Brockton Wal-Mart and RFID, when the Brockton
      Enterprise newspaper ran a front page story on these smart shelves
      being in the Brockton store they back pedalled, they removed the
      shelf over night and they claimed they had no intention of doing any
      such tests and they did not know what she was talking about.

      AJ: That's absolutely amazing, Paul Watson comments, then we're going
      to calls…

      PJW: Yeah, we've got a big picture on PrisonPlanet.com of the 6" sign
      at Wal-Mart saying RFID is for your safety. Another thing I want to
      mention is that Katherine was talking about the Google hits on the
      term RFID, I wouldn't be surprise if they actually changed the
      terminology for that because we've seen that before with Total
      Information Awareness being changed to Talon and then Lifelog…

      AJ: We see even…

      KA: Paul, that's an excellent point can I jump in here?

      AJ: Sure.

      KA: One of things we uncovered in this strategy document by
      Fleischman Hiller was that they actually toyed around with the idea
      of calling these Green Tags, safer, better, smarter something like
      that. Actually promoting them as this wonderful thing that is somehow
      going to make the world better. And you know, I saw that and I
      thought that is really, that is such a stretch, and you know I really
      hope they do something like that because it means they would take a
      public splash, they would take this public and believe me the public
      will be on them like white on rice.

      AJ: That's really stupid because Green Tag is something even easier
      to get across to people, RFID is kind of a hard concept. I want to go
      to Joan, Bob & Bill, I going to give you each about a minute on the
      other side with our guest Katherine Albrecht, and give you out her
      web site as well, I want to thank you for joining us Paul Watson.

      PJW: OK, thanks Alex.


      AJ: Katherine, what about the website for Caspian, how can folks
      visit the website and get more informed?

      KA: You can find us online as www.nocards.org , we are "no cards"
      because we originally started fighting supermarket cards, which are
      just a drop in the bucket compared to the data you can collect with
      RFID. You can find us online there, you can also do a Google search
      under Caspian, we usually come up as the first or second hit on that
      search, you can find us there easily if you remember we are called
      Caspian. My email address is kma@....

      AJ: OK, let's take a call, quickly callers. Thanks for holding, Joan
      in Florida you're on the air.

      Joan: Hi Alex, out of the regular newspaper Tampa Tribune, "our
      opinion", it was June 15, so they can go www.tbo.com and research
      this article. "Our opinion, new science of radio tag threatens
      privacy", and it also talks in here in on this about this tag card
      could be tracked based on where and when you drive your car…

      AJ: Wow, give me that article and please email it to Katherine. So
      Tampa Tribune saying it will be used to tax cars, already happening
      with a little bit more sophisticated transponder in the San Francisco
      Bay Area. Interesting Katherine.

      KA: Yeah. Absolutely, and you know the limits that what this will be
      used for are just the limits of the human imagination, if they can
      find a reason for collecting the data, this technology will enable
      them to do it. Alex, you talk about a number of other concerns about
      illegal immigration, about police brutality and other issues, and no
      matter what your concern is, envision that the people doing the
      oppressing have access to this technology and you will see why this
      affects all of us no matter what your freedom issue or your personal
      issue, no matter what it is, RFID will take that issue and bring it
      to a whole new level of bad.

      AJ: Amazing.

      KA: I've got a document here in front of me I quickly want to tell
      you about Alex before we get off the air here. This is the Department
      of Defence applications of Auto ID, and this is a Mr Kimble from the
      Auto ID who was speaking at a meeting
      AJ: They're going to make the Iraqi's wear it!

      KA: I'd like to read you something here, Mr Kimble describes four
      projects which Department of Defence is pursuing related to Auto ID.
      Most of these are pretty innocuous, the Department of Defence needs
      to the know the location of materials at all stages of it's
      lifecycle, the final one, this is the one that the editors Mr Kimble
      knew on some future applications including a telepathy tag, such a
      tag does not exists, nor can we guess at how it might work, but the
      point is that Department of Defence is careful not to go down a
      course of action that precludes adoption of new technology when that
      technology becomes feasible. A telepathy tag, what is that?

      AJ: It's insane, really quick Bob in New York, thanks for holding.

      Bob: My training is in electronics, and there is a device called the
      Degausser, a stick or a degaussing device that's used in the picture
      tube industry or TV set industry, if you just search Degaussing coil
      on the internet I'm sure you'll be able to find it, you just can't
      use that device around any electronics or it will blast it, it will
      blast out those RFID tags.

      AJ: Thanks for your call.

      KA: Anybody listening please go to our website at www.nocards.org, we
      need you, we are organizing local chapters, join us, hit the feedback
      form and please sign up.

      AJ: Katherine, that's great, I'm going to call you after the show.

      KA: Absolutely.

      [END] *Many thanks to Martin Gammon for transcribing the interview.


      Listen to the audio file of this interview at

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