Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [infoguys-list] The Great Cell Phone Debate Questions.....

Expand Messages
  • oracleintl@aol.com
    Hi Rick, I wish I had the free time to go round,and round, and round . . . but I don t. I think my answers have been responsive to your questions, and I do
    Message 1 of 7 , May 8, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Rick,

      I wish I had the free time to go round,and round, and round . . . but I
      don't.

      I think my answers have been responsive to your questions, and I do not
      think there has been anything equivocal about them.

      If pretexting bank records was clearly illegal prior to GLB, why do we have
      GLB? The answer is, because it was not clearly illegal (See US v Mitchell
      Miller), and still is not necessarily illegal as GLB provides specific
      exemptions.

      If pretexting bank records was not clearly illegal prior to GLB, buying
      those records from an info broker would not have been clearly illegal even
      assuming that the buyer knew how they were obtained.

      Since info brokers closely guard their secrets, it's pretty hard to make the
      case that the purchaser of these records knew how they were being obtained,
      but as I said, absent clear guidance as to the legal issue, there was still no
      criminal case to be made. In support of that assertion, I invite anyone to
      point me to a case where someone was prosecuted for purchasing bank records
      from an info broker prior to GLB.

      That's why we have GLB.

      Similarly, assuming that brokers illegally obtained telephone toll records,
      the consumer who purchased phone toll records from a broker may not have had
      any idea how they were obtained. There is a scienter requirement for most
      criminal acts unless they are categorized as strict liability offenses - such as
      statutory rape, or speeding.

      As for the notion that evidence must be obtained legally to be admissible,
      that is simply ridiculous. Laying the foundation for admission does not mean
      one must prove that the documents were obtained legally. Obviously, the
      evidence should have been obtained legally, but unlawfully obtained evidence is
      frequently admitted.

      For one thing, the rules are dramatically different for law enforcement
      (government) and private parties. There is no general Exclusionary Rule
      applicable to private parties, even in criminal cases. If I am burglarizing your
      house and find your stash of pedophile vids where you taped yourself with
      neighborhood kids, I can turn them over to the cops and you can bet your ass they
      will be admissible - anyone who says otherwise obviously has no clue.

      For another thing, the rules vary according to use. Evidence that may not
      be admissible in the presentation of one's case, may very well be admissible
      in impeachment. A statement unlawfully obtained by the cops is a prime
      example. If you want to keep your mouth shut at trial, they may not be able to use
      it, but if you take the stand and tell a profoundly different story, it may
      very well come in.

      Also, if I buy phone toll records from Joe Schmoe who assures me that they
      were lawfully obtained from your trash, and it turns out that Schmoe got them
      from your trash can as it sat by your house as opposed to curbside, I would
      expect to be able to use them as evidence. You might have a sustainable civil
      action against Schmoe, but it is up to the discretion of the Court as to
      whether or not the evidence comes in, and absent wrongdoing on my part, I would
      expect to use the evidence - the foundation being that I bought them from
      Schmoe and Schmoe's testimony as to where he got them if the Court did not find
      them to be self-authenticating.


      Further, if the cops seek to introduce evidence in a criminal trial against
      you in the form of phone toll records that were ostensibly lawfully obtained
      from your criminal cohort's trash, and it turns out that they got them from
      their trash can as it sat by their house as opposed to curbside, although
      those records might well be excludable at trial against the cohort, I would
      expect the evidence to be admissible AGAINST YOU as you have no standing to object
      to the violation of a third party's rights.

      In any event, private action or government prosecution, the Court may permit
      the introduction of otherwise excludable evidence in rebuttal of perjury, or
      when justice otherwise demands it.

      I'll leave it to you to do your own research as I have a living to make.

      Bill E. Branscum, Investigator
      Oracle International
      _http://www.fraudsandscams.com/_ (http://www.fraudsandscams.com/)
      _http://www.oracleinternational.com/_ (http://www.oracleinternational.com/)
      PO Box 10728
      Naples, FL 34101
      (239) 304-1639
      (239) 304-1640 Fax




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ricky Gurley
      ... You seem to be doing a pretty good job of it, Bill.. But I am glad that you are so busy that you can t seem to squeeze in 5 minutes to make a post, or does
      Message 2 of 7 , May 8, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, oracleintl@... wrote:
        >
        > Hi Rick,
        >
        > I wish I had the free time to go round,and round, and round . . .

        You seem to be doing a pretty good job of it, Bill.. But I am glad
        that you are so busy that you can't seem to squeeze in 5 minutes to
        make a post, or does it just take longer for you to type up a
        post? ;o). You're probably just in high demand, these days....

        I just wanted to nail down some of your opinions on this topic.. To
        be honest, I am not as worried about admissibility issues with cell
        phone records, as I am the future of being able to get them at
        all... I will be the first to admit that in the past I have used
        cell phone records, and never have I had to bring them into court
        for any reason. Of course though, I am not going to be a hypocrite
        and lie and say that I have never used them, because they are such a
        political hot topic nowadays...

        The discussion on "rules of evidence" has been educational, though..
        I have learned that there really is not many "hard and fast rules"
        in court, it is all up to the Judge and the attitude of the court
        can sometimes be "geographical" or some might
        say "jurisdictional".... There are some courts here in Missouri that
        you can get away with things in that you may not ever dream about
        doing in other courts here in Missouri...



        Rick.


        RMRI, Inc
        Columbia, Missouri
        (888) 571-0958
      • oracleintl@aol.com
        In a message dated 5/8/2006 2:01:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmriinc@yahoo.com writes: You seem to be doing a pretty good job of it, Bill.. But I am glad
        Message 3 of 7 , May 8, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 5/8/2006 2:01:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          rmriinc@... writes:

          You seem to be doing a pretty good job of it, Bill.. But I am glad
          that you are so busy that you can't seem to squeeze in 5 minutes to
          make a post, or does it just take longer for you to type up a
          post? ;o). You're probably just in high demand, these days....




          Yep, I suppose that's true but it is easy to be in high demand when one's
          competition so frequently has no clue.

          ; )

          Bill E. Branscum, Investigator
          Oracle International
          _http://www.fraudsandscams.com/_ (http://www.fraudsandscams.com/)
          _http://www.oracleinternational.com/_ (http://www.oracleinternational.com/)
          PO Box 10728
          Naples, FL 34101
          (239) 304-1639
          (239) 304-1640 Fax



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ricky Gurley
          ... when one s ... You were blessed by the P.I. Gods , Bill..... You are certainly a fortunate one. Some of us have to struggle to attain only a modicum of
          Message 4 of 7 , May 8, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            > Yep, I suppose that's true but it is easy to be in high demand
            when one's
            > competition so frequently has no clue.

            You were blessed by the "P.I. Gods", Bill..... You are certainly a
            fortunate one. Some of us have to struggle to attain only a modicum
            of your knowledge.... Thank you for being our guiding
            inspiration.....

            LOL.



            Rick.


            RMRI, Inc.
            Columbia, Missouri
            (888) 571-0958
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.