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Training VS Gifted?

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  • Leif
    You know how during surveillance you can manipulate traffic to your own benefit? IE you slow down just enough to let a car out as a spacer between you and the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 8, 2005
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      You know how during surveillance you can manipulate traffic to your
      own benefit? IE you slow down just enough to let a car out as a spacer
      between you and the subject. Or Slow down enough to make the guy
      behind you pass. I think you all get my drift. Is this a learned
      talent? I was helping a friend at another company train his newbie
      and as I was riding along Id say get in the left lane she's going to
      turn or slow down just a little here she is looking for a driveway.
      This is just normal operating stuff, I know, I don't mean to bore
      anyone. My question stems from the ability to do it. Is it something
      you pick up along the way or could it be taught? I mean, I do not
      think it could be taught practically in a 3 week course or such like.
      Does everyone do this to some extent in most all occupations? Even
      regular driving requires a certain amount of awareness of your
      surroundings. So can one assume that anyone could learn to do it for
      surveillance? With the specific desired outcome?

      Leif
      "The early bird gets the worm But the second mouse always get the
      cheese."
    • jimlyonsncis
      In my experience in life and in training for private investigators, I think the key is this job requires a great deal of situational awareness and instinct
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 8, 2005
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        In my experience in life and in training for private investigators, I
        think the key is this job requires a great deal of situational
        awareness and instinct that some people either just don't have or
        just haven't used yet.

        Situational awareness is knowing what's going on all around you, like
        knowing if one of the six cars in your line of sight can be used to
        your advantage. Instinct is picking up on subtle nuances, like an
        incremental slowdown in a moving vehicle, either conciously or
        subconciously, and knowing that it's a stimulus that requires a
        response.

        Most people I know dont' have the situational awareness to do the job
        well, but some may be trainable. Using mobile surveillance as an
        example, some people are just really crappy drivers no matter how
        hard they try and aren't fit to conduct mobile surveillance.

        A lot of people I know don't have a great deal of natural or trained
        instinct, either, which is a two-fold issue. Good investigators
        possess and refine a sense of instinct, but others have no
        instinctive abilities to refine, and some people may have good
        instincts but are self-destructive and fight their instinctual inputs.

        When it comes to trainees, I ask a few specific questions to get a
        feel for their situational awareness and instinctive abilities:

        1: Does your spouse find it irritating that you can recall an event
        or conversation very specifically days, weeks or even months
        afterwards? (Every good investigator I know says this is a real
        problem.)

        2: Have you ever noticed something significant, like a dangerous
        situation developing, well before other people around you? (This is a
        must.)

        3: How many traffic accidents have you had and how many have you
        avoided? Describe the situations. (Not all traffic accidents can be
        avoided, but I've never known a good investigator who had been at
        fault in an accident except related to an aggressive surveillance.)

        4: Do you believe in stereotypes of people, that you can tell a lot
        about a person by their facial appearance, clothing, posture, manner
        of speech, etc? Yes or no, explain it. (If they say yes, it means
        they are a student of human nature, because to be a student means to
        categorize and analyze.)

        There are many other questions and I think there are a few key ones
        that I have used before that I can't recall. It would be interesting
        to hear what others use when feeling out a potential investigator.

        (By the way, these questions also require excellent verbal skills to
        respond to. Another good test.)

        I apply these same questions to everyone, including former LEOs. This
        is the line I always draw when talking about the ex-LEO PI issue,
        that some people, even former law enforcement officers, just dont'
        have the ability to be good private investigators, even if they can
        easily obtain a license.

        Don't know if I want to open that can of worms, but it's always worth
        a poke.

        You are right: A heightened sense of situational awareness and
        instinct is required, and some people have it naturally and hone
        their skills with experience, and some people can be trained. But
        many people just will never be able to do this job because they lack
        these basic skills.

        Jim Lyons
        Superior Research Services
        Marquette, MI
      • Paul Curtis
        The question I often ask is this, If you could do anything you wanted to do without regard to obligations, resources, geography or any other external force,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 8, 2005
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          The question I often ask is this, "If you could do anything you wanted to do
          without regard to obligations, resources, geography or any other external
          force, what would you be doing?" It is one of the ways I use to determine
          what people are passionate about.



          The follow on question is simply, "Why?"



          Another thing that seems to work well is to leave them sitting in a lobby or
          ante room for a few minutes before the interview and then at some point in
          the interview explain that you need to determine how observant they are.
          Ask them to list for you the things they saw while waiting to be
          interviewed. By the way, you better know the answers before you ask the
          questions. If they use the search technique for identifying things they saw
          in the room they are way ahead of the game. If they claim experience as an
          investigator and don't use a method for recalling what they saw you probably
          have your answer. If they have no experience they still need to bring
          powers of observation and recollection with them to the job though their
          responses will probably not be as well organized as they would be with an
          experienced investigator.



          If you are given a penny for your thoughts but have to put your two cents
          in, who gets the other penny? :-)



          Paul Curtis

          Costa Mesa, CA



          _____

          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of jimlyonsncis
          Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 09:49
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Training VS Gifted?



          In my experience in life and in training for private investigators, I
          think the key is this job requires a great deal of situational
          awareness and instinct that some people either just don't have or
          just haven't used yet.

          Situational awareness is knowing what's going on all around you, like
          knowing if one of the six cars in your line of sight can be used to
          your advantage. Instinct is picking up on subtle nuances, like an
          incremental slowdown in a moving vehicle, either conciously or
          subconciously, and knowing that it's a stimulus that requires a
          response.

          Most people I know dont' have the situational awareness to do the job
          well, but some may be trainable. Using mobile surveillance as an
          example, some people are just really crappy drivers no matter how
          hard they try and aren't fit to conduct mobile surveillance.

          A lot of people I know don't have a great deal of natural or trained
          instinct, either, which is a two-fold issue. Good investigators
          possess and refine a sense of instinct, but others have no
          instinctive abilities to refine, and some people may have good
          instincts but are self-destructive and fight their instinctual inputs.

          When it comes to trainees, I ask a few specific questions to get a
          feel for their situational awareness and instinctive abilities:

          1: Does your spouse find it irritating that you can recall an event
          or conversation very specifically days, weeks or even months
          afterwards? (Every good investigator I know says this is a real
          problem.)

          2: Have you ever noticed something significant, like a dangerous
          situation developing, well before other people around you? (This is a
          must.)

          3: How many traffic accidents have you had and how many have you
          avoided? Describe the situations. (Not all traffic accidents can be
          avoided, but I've never known a good investigator who had been at
          fault in an accident except related to an aggressive surveillance.)

          4: Do you believe in stereotypes of people, that you can tell a lot
          about a person by their facial appearance, clothing, posture, manner
          of speech, etc? Yes or no, explain it. (If they say yes, it means
          they are a student of human nature, because to be a student means to
          categorize and analyze.)

          There are many other questions and I think there are a few key ones
          that I have used before that I can't recall. It would be interesting
          to hear what others use when feeling out a potential investigator.

          (By the way, these questions also require excellent verbal skills to
          respond to. Another good test.)

          I apply these same questions to everyone, including former LEOs. This
          is the line I always draw when talking about the ex-LEO PI issue,
          that some people, even former law enforcement officers, just dont'
          have the ability to be good private investigators, even if they can
          easily obtain a license.

          Don't know if I want to open that can of worms, but it's always worth
          a poke.

          You are right: A heightened sense of situational awareness and
          instinct is required, and some people have it naturally and hone
          their skills with experience, and some people can be trained. But
          many people just will never be able to do this job because they lack
          these basic skills.

          Jim Lyons
          Superior Research Services
          Marquette, MI











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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vicki Siedow
          You touched on it yourself. It is neither a natural nor a learned skill; it is simply a level of awareness. Look at the people around you when you re
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 8, 2005
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            You touched on it yourself. It is neither a natural nor a learned skill; it
            is simply a level of awareness. Look at the people around you when you're
            shopping, for instance. Some are simply "not there," zoned out. Others are
            bright and alert. Anyone can be made more or less alert and "in" the
            present time and location. Those that are really "there" will excel at
            investigations, including surveillance. The others can put on an artificial
            appearance, but will never make the grade. Look at the results, not the PR.

            Vicki Siedow
            Siedow & Associates Investigations
            & Legal Support Services
            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
            La Crescenta, CA 91214
            Los Angeles County
            800.448.6431 toll free
            818.242.0130 local
            818.688.3295 fax
            http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
            Siedow@...
            Need economical legal help?
            Concerned about Identity Theft?
            http://AreYouProtectedYet.com
            Member NCISS, IWWA


            -----Original Message-----
            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Leif
            Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:54 AM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [infoguys-list] Training VS Gifted?

            You know how during surveillance you can manipulate traffic to your
            own benefit? IE you slow down just enough to let a car out as a spacer
            between you and the subject. Or Slow down enough to make the guy
            behind you pass. I think you all get my drift. Is this a learned
            talent? I was helping a friend at another company train his newbie
            and as I was riding along Id say get in the left lane she's going to
            turn or slow down just a little here she is looking for a driveway.
            This is just normal operating stuff, I know, I don't mean to bore
            anyone. My question stems from the ability to do it. Is it something
            you pick up along the way or could it be taught? I mean, I do not
            think it could be taught practically in a 3 week course or such like.
            Does everyone do this to some extent in most all occupations? Even
            regular driving requires a certain amount of awareness of your
            surroundings. So can one assume that anyone could learn to do it for
            surveillance? With the specific desired outcome?

            Leif
            "The early bird gets the worm But the second mouse always get the
            cheese."
          • Seymour Dupa
            The other way of saying it is, What would you do if you didn t have to work for a living? ...
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 8, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              The other way of saying it is,
              "What would you do if you didn't have to work for a
              living?"

              --- Paul Curtis <pncurtis@...> wrote:

              > The question I often ask is this, "If you could do
              > anything you wanted to do
              > without regard to obligations, resources, geography
              > or any other external
              > force, what would you be doing?" It is one of the
              > ways I use to determine
              > what people are passionate about.
              >
              >
              >
              > The follow on question is simply, "Why?"
              >
              >
              >
              > Another thing that seems to work well is to leave
              > them sitting in a lobby or
              > ante room for a few minutes before the interview and
              > then at some point in
              > the interview explain that you need to determine how
              > observant they are.
              > Ask them to list for you the things they saw while
              > waiting to be
              > interviewed. By the way, you better know the
              > answers before you ask the
              > questions. If they use the search technique for
              > identifying things they saw
              > in the room they are way ahead of the game. If they
              > claim experience as an
              > investigator and don't use a method for recalling
              > what they saw you probably
              > have your answer. If they have no experience they
              > still need to bring
              > powers of observation and recollection with them to
              > the job though their
              > responses will probably not be as well organized as
              > they would be with an
              > experienced investigator.
              >
              >
              >
              > If you are given a penny for your thoughts but have
              > to put your two cents
              > in, who gets the other penny? :-)
              >
              >
              >
              > Paul Curtis
              >
              > Costa Mesa, CA
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of jimlyonsncis
              > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 09:49
              > To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Training VS Gifted?
              >
              >
              >
              > In my experience in life and in training for private
              > investigators, I
              > think the key is this job requires a great deal of
              > situational
              > awareness and instinct that some people either just
              > don't have or
              > just haven't used yet.
              >
              > Situational awareness is knowing what's going on all
              > around you, like
              > knowing if one of the six cars in your line of sight
              > can be used to
              > your advantage. Instinct is picking up on subtle
              > nuances, like an
              > incremental slowdown in a moving vehicle, either
              > conciously or
              > subconciously, and knowing that it's a stimulus that
              > requires a
              > response.
              >
              > Most people I know dont' have the situational
              > awareness to do the job
              > well, but some may be trainable. Using mobile
              > surveillance as an
              > example, some people are just really crappy drivers
              > no matter how
              > hard they try and aren't fit to conduct mobile
              > surveillance.
              >
              > A lot of people I know don't have a great deal of
              > natural or trained
              > instinct, either, which is a two-fold issue. Good
              > investigators
              > possess and refine a sense of instinct, but others
              > have no
              > instinctive abilities to refine, and some people may
              > have good
              > instincts but are self-destructive and fight their
              > instinctual inputs.
              >
              > When it comes to trainees, I ask a few specific
              > questions to get a
              > feel for their situational awareness and instinctive
              > abilities:
              >
              > 1: Does your spouse find it irritating that you can
              > recall an event
              > or conversation very specifically days, weeks or
              > even months
              > afterwards? (Every good investigator I know says
              > this is a real
              > problem.)
              >
              > 2: Have you ever noticed something significant, like
              > a dangerous
              > situation developing, well before other people
              > around you? (This is a
              > must.)
              >
              > 3: How many traffic accidents have you had and how
              > many have you
              > avoided? Describe the situations. (Not all traffic
              > accidents can be
              > avoided, but I've never known a good investigator
              > who had been at
              > fault in an accident except related to an aggressive
              > surveillance.)
              >
              > 4: Do you believe in stereotypes of people, that you
              > can tell a lot
              > about a person by their facial appearance, clothing,
              > posture, manner
              > of speech, etc? Yes or no, explain it. (If they say
              > yes, it means
              > they are a student of human nature, because to be a
              > student means to
              > categorize and analyze.)
              >
              > There are many other questions and I think there are
              > a few key ones
              > that I have used before that I can't recall. It
              > would be interesting
              > to hear what others use when feeling out a potential
              > investigator.
              >
              > (By the way, these questions also require excellent
              > verbal skills to
              > respond to. Another good test.)
              >
              > I apply these same questions to everyone, including
              > former LEOs. This
              > is the line I always draw when talking about the
              > ex-LEO PI issue,
              > that some people, even former law enforcement
              > officers, just dont'
              > have the ability to be good private investigators,
              > even if they can
              > easily obtain a license.
              >
              > Don't know if I want to open that can of worms, but
              > it's always worth
              > a poke.
              >
              > You are right: A heightened sense of situational
              > awareness and
              > instinct is required, and some people have it
              > naturally and hone
              > their skills with experience, and some people can be
              > trained. But
              > many people just will never be able to do this job
              > because they lack
              > these basic skills.
              >
              > Jim Lyons
              > Superior Research Services
              > Marquette, MI
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > <p><hr></p>
              > To subscribe, send an empty message to <a
              >
              href="mailto:infoguys-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com">infoguys-list-subscrib
              > e@yahoogroups.com</a><br/>
              > To unsubscribe, send a message to <a
              >
              href="mailto:infoguys-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">infoguys-list-unsubs
              > cribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br/>
              > <p><hr></p>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              === message truncated ===


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