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Re: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02

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  • grubiopi@aol.com
    I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can argue
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
      I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can argue effectively for either. Eventually though, it becomes opointless to keep arguing the same points. If you are for, more power to you, if you are against it so be it. I just do not understand why after so any postings it is still being debated. I am sure in some instances it may very well be beneficial to some and others it is a waste of time. Either way, let's move on already.

      Gilbert Rubio
      Global Security & Investigations
      www.global007.com
      Houston, Texas
      (713)725-1527

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...>
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:11:45 -0700
      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




      It sure sounds like you didn't get a good explanation of the plan. It's
      also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will
      drawn, a contract reviewed, a letter of phone call on their behalf, etc? As
      I've said, it's heavily on the preventive side. It does cover a number of
      hours if YOU ARE SUED IN CIVIL COURT. It is defensive. It does not cover
      hours if you want to bring suit. They will advise you, write a letter, etc.
      but not represent at no cost you in a civil suit that you bring. They do
      not want to be in the position of siging up a bunch of people who then
      proceed to file one frivolous suit after another. It would be foolhardy and
      irresponsible.

      They also do not cover most criminal, drug or alchohol related matters.
      They do not want to have a bunch of gangsters sign up and proceed to raise
      heck, knowing that they have free legal help to get them off. They DO cover
      work related criminal, which is most of what a PI will need. They also
      cover from start to finish all non alchohol related accidental deaths by
      vehicle. We recently had a cop who was driving home from a long shift, hit
      someone and killed them. The case went for months, and all was covered.

      PPL is a very conservative and responsible group. They are absolutely anal
      about doing things legally and correctly. They do not want to encourage
      more frivolous lawsuits or cirme, so they took care to exclude those areas
      of coverage that they thought could be abused. It's true that it doesn't
      cover everything, but there is a very good reason for that, I think. It
      does cover a whole heck of a lot for a measly $26 a month for a couple and
      their kids. If you do the Will alone you've saved money. I can show you
      mountains of success stories, some of them mine. My PPL attorneys have
      saved me a ton of money and time.

      Let me think. For example, they've reviewed my contracts, advised me on
      many cases, helped me collect money owed me, helped me get my city to change
      their housing contracts, handle a towed car, a tree falling on a house,
      complete divorce papers, dissolving a disputed Corp. Sort out my mortgage
      bank on numerous occasions when they mess up my account and ignore me
      (that's a whole epic in itself, that bank is absolutely psychotic)

      The company was started by a man who sold insurance. He was in an accident
      in which someone died. Even though the other driver was cited at the scene,
      they sued him in civil court, and it cost him everything he had to defend
      himself. He had medical and auto insurance, but they don't cover this sort
      of case. He decided to fill in that gap. Similar plans have been popular
      for years in parts of Europe. Being an Insurance man, he adapted it and
      brought it here. No one should ever say that it does everything, it does
      not, but it does do an excellent job of keeping people out of legal trouble
      and helping them out of a jam here and there. It is not designed for
      criminals or to encourage litigation. Your members should have used the
      plan for what it was designed. I'm very sorry that whomever explained the
      plan did not apparently make it clear, although the member packages you all
      received should have handled that.

      So in the examples you relate:

      1) "Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue
      the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an
      attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. "

      That's correct, PPL does not represent you in a civil suit that you bring.
      They do offer a 25% discount off the normal rates for anything that's not
      otherwise covered, criminal, etc. included. They do advise you on how to
      handle it, and will write one letter per matter, in this instance demanding
      restitution. Additional letters and calls are available inexpensively.
      I've had them write letters for me, and all have gotten results.

      2) "She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off
      duty and alcohol was involved. "

      That's correct. The exclusions include drugs and alchohol, and on this plan
      (Law Officers) administrative discipline for off-duty occurrances.

      3) "disciplinary action is not covered"

      Actually, I don't see that exact exclusion. I'd need to know more about
      this instance. The main exclusion clause that applies in your instances is
      this:

      "Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
      this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
      any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
      chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
      other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
      active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
      separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
      conditions are not covered. "

      This is the description of the plan that I'm guessing you had.

      Expanded Law Officers Legal Plan

      Preventive Legal Services
      Toll Free Phone Consultations with your Provider Lawyer

      This plan offers, unlimited telephone access to your Provider Law Firm for
      personal and business advice when you enroll. Call the toll-free number
      during business hours when you have a non-emergency legal problem or
      question.


      Phone Calls and Letters...

      A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you
      want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when
      that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject
      related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two
      business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for
      same subject at 25% discount.


      Contract and Document Review...

      You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten
      pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one
      business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will
      analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.


      Wills for You and Your Family...


      A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one
      that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates.
      Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20.
      Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation
      Up to 10 hours of legal consultation, advice and representation for 2
      administrative inquiries or investigations per membership year; up to 5
      hours of assistance per occurrence.

      Advice, counsel, and representation by your Provider Lawyer for one
      pre-termination hearing each membership year -- at no additional cost.

      24 hour Toll-free telephone access to your provider lawyer in the event of
      an emergency arising from your direct employment responsibilities while on
      active duty as a law enforcement officer.

      Your Provider Lawyer will also help with post-termination hearings (before a
      review board or arbitrator) as described below. (Additional preparation time
      is covered under your 25% discount.)

      1st member year: 60 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
      including 2.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

      2nd year renewal: 120 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
      including 3 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

      3rd year renewal: 180 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
      including 3.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

      4th year renewal: 240 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
      including 4 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

      5th year renewal: 300 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
      including 4.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.


      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      Trial Defense Services
      You and your spouse also have coverage for representation by your Provider
      Lawyer if either of you are named defendant or respondent in a covered civil
      or job-related criminal action filed in court. Hours available for
      representation increase each membership year.

      1st member year:
      75 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 17.5 hours
      of pre-trial time.

      2nd year renewal:
      140 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 23 hours of
      pre-trial time.

      3rd year renewal:
      205 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 28.5 hours
      of pre-trial time.

      4th year renewal:
      270 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 34 hours of
      pre-trial time.

      5th year renewal:
      335 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 39.5 hours
      of pre-trial time.

      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      Motor Vehicle Related Services
      It's your worst nightmare - a tragic accident resulting in loss of life,
      especially in the line of duty. If you are driving a vehicle, with the
      express consent and permission of the owner of the vehicle, and you are
      involved in an accident that results in your being criminally charged with
      manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or vehicular
      homicide, you will be entitled to defense of the charge by your provider
      lawyer in the court of original jurisdiction.

      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      IRS Audit Legal Services
      Pre-Paid Legal takes the bite out of an IRS audit with up to 50 hours of
      professional services for either you, your spouse, or your dependent
      children when notified in writing of an IRS audit, or requested to appear at
      the IRS about your tax return.
      Your 50 hours break down to:

      One hour for consultation, advice, assistance when notified of an audit.

      2.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached in 30 days.
      Available for representation, negotiations, conferences, telephone
      conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.

      46.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached without
      litigation and the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax, and sue the
      IRS.

      Coverage begins with the return due on April 15 of the year your membership
      is effective. Services under this benefit available through your Provider
      Lawyer.


      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      Other Legal Services
      Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her
      standard or corporate hourly rate for you or your spouse should you need
      legal assistance or litigation services not otherwise covered by this
      membership. Your Provider Lawyer must have five days notice prior to court
      representation. Telephone advice is available immediately.

      * Additional Information & Exclusions


      Additional Information & Exclusions:

      Due to regulatory requirements, benefits and rates vary in certain states
      and provinces. The information contained on this material is for
      illustrative purposes only and is not a contract. It is intended to provide
      a general overview of plan coverage; only a plan contract can give actual
      terms, coverage, amounts, conditions and exclusions.

      Phone Consultation: Nevada residents limited to 50 hours of telephone
      consultation per year.

      Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is
      available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

      Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal
      documents reviewed per year.

      Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A
      standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no
      additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared
      for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.

      Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
      this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
      any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
      chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
      other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
      active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
      separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
      conditions are not covered.

      Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and
      spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other
      divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related
      matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an
      accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a
      commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this
      benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional
      exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having
      criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner,
      management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement
      with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge.
      Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the
      lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your
      membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or
      foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your
      Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed
      after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred
      member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in
      which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also,
      this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal.
      Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim
      or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without
      merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or
      decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or
      defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal
      will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides
      their professional services.

      Motor Vehicle Related Services: Benefits are available 15 days after
      enrollment. Not covered are pre-existing conditions, charges related to
      DUI/DWI or drug related matters, matters arising from the use of a
      commercial vehicle with more than 2 axles, hit and run related charges, or
      charges where the covered person is driving without a valid operator's
      license.

      IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment,
      attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus
      curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns,
      payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or
      portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing
      conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment,
      and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due
      on April 15th of the first membership year.

      Other Legal Services: The standard hourly rate discount for law enforcement
      matters may differ from the standard hourly rate discount offered for
      non-law enforcement related assistance due to the complexity and lawyer
      specialization needed in law enforcement cases. A retainer may be required
      before services are rendered under this benefit.


      Vicki Siedow
      Siedow & Associates Investigations
      & Custom Legal Support Services
      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
      La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
      818-242-0130
      800-448-6431
      818-688-3295 fax
      Siedow@...
      http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
      CA Lic. PI #22852
      Member NCISS
      Need economical legal help?
      http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Gerri Edler [mailto:gedler@...]
      Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:01 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



      As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152,
      (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

      In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by
      PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give
      police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on
      or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE
      ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime,
      anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

      We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one
      needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

      In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police
      department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the
      fan.

      1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida.
      Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge
      and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered
      that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to
      room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking
      for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer
      requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL
      offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's
      choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received
      restitution).

      2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They
      had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a
      scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It
      was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL.
      She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty
      and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

      3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded
      a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme.
      He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not
      covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).


      After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000;
      AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot
      about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we
      wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters
      to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

      It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a
      shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A
      local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


      Gerri Edler, LPI
      Lic# 5922-111704-LA
      Black Horse Agency LLC
      PO Box 60279
      Lafayette, LA 70596
      Email:gerri@...

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sherlockhomz@aol.com
      Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue debates now and then ad nauseam. Martin Lichtig NYS Licensed Private Investigator
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
        Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
        debates now and then ad nauseam.

        Martin Lichtig
        NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process Server
        #0965095
        Certified Member NYSPPA
        3874 Valleyview St.
        Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
        914-528-1875
        Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX 108XX
        and 914 & 845 Area Codes


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • twnsnd_mrk
        Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never offer any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate they have tired of?
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
          Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never
          offer any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate
          they have tired of? They just seem to want the list to stop dead in
          the water, as that's what inevitably happens in reponse to these
          whining entreaties.

          Like the doctor saud, if reading these posts hurts your heads, don't
          read them.

          My take on pre-paid legal is this: If the plan, in effect, promises
          good legal representation at highly reduced costs, it's "too good to
          be true," and therefor to be avoided.

          Mark

          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, sherlockhomz@a... wrote:
          >
          > Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
          > debates now and then ad nauseam.
          >
          > Martin Lichtig
          > NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process
          Server
          > #0965095
          > Certified Member NYSPPA
          > 3874 Valleyview St.
          > Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
          > 914-528-1875
          > Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX
          108XX
          > and 914 & 845 Area Codes
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vicki Siedow
          I thought so, too. I checked it out, expecting the worst, and was very surprised to find that it is a good deal. Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
            I thought so, too. I checked it out, expecting the worst, and was very
            surprised to find that it is a good deal.


            Vicki Siedow
            Siedow & Associates Investigations
            & Custom Legal Support Services
            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
            La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
            818-242-0130
            800-448-6431
            818-688-3295 fax
            Siedow@...
            http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
            CA Lic. PI #22852
            Member NCISS
            Need economical legal help?
            http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


            -----Original Message-----
            From: twnsnd_mrk [mailto:twnsnd_mrk@...]
            Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 4:17 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




            Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never offer
            any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate they have
            tired of? They just seem to want the list to stop dead in the water, as
            that's what inevitably happens in reponse to these whining entreaties.

            Like the doctor saud, if reading these posts hurts your heads, don't read
            them.

            My take on pre-paid legal is this: If the plan, in effect, promises good
            legal representation at highly reduced costs, it's "too good to be true,"
            and therefor to be avoided.

            Mark

            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, sherlockhomz@a... wrote:
            >
            > Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
            > debates now and then ad nauseam.
            >
            > Martin Lichtig
            > NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process
            Server
            > #0965095
            > Certified Member NYSPPA
            > 3874 Valleyview St.
            > Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
            > 914-528-1875
            > Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX
            108XX
            > and 914 & 845 Area Codes
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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          • John MacIntire
            Gilbert is right on! I have read and evaluated the many posts and it is beyond time to move onto other issues. Most of the posts have been detailed and
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 5, 2005
              Gilbert is right on! I have read and evaluated the many posts and it is
              beyond time to move onto other issues. Most of the posts have been detailed
              and informative yet the personalities are taking over. Ave those posts for
              direct contact so that the group can continue to learn and network aside
              from the fray.

              All the best to the group!

              God Bless Our Troops and the United States!

              John


              John R.W. MacIntire, Jr.

              President

              MacIntire & Associates, Inc.

              531 West Plata, Suite #200

              Tucson, Arizona 85705

              (800) 641-2737 / (520) 622-2737

              (888) 882-5205 / (520) 792-2764 Fax

              <mailto:john@...> john@...

              <http://www.macintireandassociates.com/> www.macintireandassociates.com

              AZ PI #8008002

              Member: NCISS, INTELNET, AFOSISA, AALPI, ASIS



              "Information for Peace of Mind"



              Confidentiality Notice



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              From: grubiopi@... [mailto:grubiopi@...]
              Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:37 PM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



              I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same
              topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can
              argue effectively for either. Eventually though, it becomes opointless to
              keep arguing the same points. If you are for, more power to you, if you are
              against it so be it. I just do not understand why after so any postings it
              is still being debated. I am sure in some instances it may very well be
              beneficial to some and others it is a waste of time. Either way, let's move
              on already.

              Gilbert Rubio
              Global Security & Investigations
              www.global007.com
              Houston, Texas
              (713)725-1527

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...>
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:11:45 -0700
              Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




              It sure sounds like you didn't get a good explanation of the plan. It's
              also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will
              drawn, a contract reviewed, a letter of phone call on their behalf, etc? As
              I've said, it's heavily on the preventive side. It does cover a number of
              hours if YOU ARE SUED IN CIVIL COURT. It is defensive. It does not cover
              hours if you want to bring suit. They will advise you, write a letter, etc.
              but not represent at no cost you in a civil suit that you bring. They do
              not want to be in the position of siging up a bunch of people who then
              proceed to file one frivolous suit after another. It would be foolhardy and
              irresponsible.

              They also do not cover most criminal, drug or alchohol related matters.
              They do not want to have a bunch of gangsters sign up and proceed to raise
              heck, knowing that they have free legal help to get them off. They DO cover
              work related criminal, which is most of what a PI will need. They also
              cover from start to finish all non alchohol related accidental deaths by
              vehicle. We recently had a cop who was driving home from a long shift, hit
              someone and killed them. The case went for months, and all was covered.

              PPL is a very conservative and responsible group. They are absolutely anal
              about doing things legally and correctly. They do not want to encourage
              more frivolous lawsuits or cirme, so they took care to exclude those areas
              of coverage that they thought could be abused. It's true that it doesn't
              cover everything, but there is a very good reason for that, I think. It
              does cover a whole heck of a lot for a measly $26 a month for a couple and
              their kids. If you do the Will alone you've saved money. I can show you
              mountains of success stories, some of them mine. My PPL attorneys have
              saved me a ton of money and time.

              Let me think. For example, they've reviewed my contracts, advised me on
              many cases, helped me collect money owed me, helped me get my city to change
              their housing contracts, handle a towed car, a tree falling on a house,
              complete divorce papers, dissolving a disputed Corp. Sort out my mortgage
              bank on numerous occasions when they mess up my account and ignore me
              (that's a whole epic in itself, that bank is absolutely psychotic)

              The company was started by a man who sold insurance. He was in an accident
              in which someone died. Even though the other driver was cited at the scene,
              they sued him in civil court, and it cost him everything he had to defend
              himself. He had medical and auto insurance, but they don't cover this sort
              of case. He decided to fill in that gap. Similar plans have been popular
              for years in parts of Europe. Being an Insurance man, he adapted it and
              brought it here. No one should ever say that it does everything, it does
              not, but it does do an excellent job of keeping people out of legal trouble
              and helping them out of a jam here and there. It is not designed for
              criminals or to encourage litigation. Your members should have used the
              plan for what it was designed. I'm very sorry that whomever explained the
              plan did not apparently make it clear, although the member packages you all
              received should have handled that.

              So in the examples you relate:

              1) "Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue
              the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an
              attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. "

              That's correct, PPL does not represent you in a civil suit that you bring.
              They do offer a 25% discount off the normal rates for anything that's not
              otherwise covered, criminal, etc. included. They do advise you on how to
              handle it, and will write one letter per matter, in this instance demanding
              restitution. Additional letters and calls are available inexpensively.
              I've had them write letters for me, and all have gotten results.

              2) "She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off
              duty and alcohol was involved. "

              That's correct. The exclusions include drugs and alchohol, and on this plan
              (Law Officers) administrative discipline for off-duty occurrances.

              3) "disciplinary action is not covered"

              Actually, I don't see that exact exclusion. I'd need to know more about
              this instance. The main exclusion clause that applies in your instances is
              this:

              "Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
              this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
              any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
              chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
              other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
              active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
              separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
              conditions are not covered. "

              This is the description of the plan that I'm guessing you had.

              Expanded Law Officers Legal Plan

              Preventive Legal Services
              Toll Free Phone Consultations with your Provider Lawyer

              This plan offers, unlimited telephone access to your Provider Law Firm for
              personal and business advice when you enroll. Call the toll-free number
              during business hours when you have a non-emergency legal problem or
              question.


              Phone Calls and Letters...

              A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you
              want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when
              that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject
              related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two
              business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for
              same subject at 25% discount.


              Contract and Document Review...

              You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten
              pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one
              business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will
              analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.


              Wills for You and Your Family...


              A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one
              that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates.
              Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20.
              Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation
              Up to 10 hours of legal consultation, advice and representation for 2
              administrative inquiries or investigations per membership year; up to 5
              hours of assistance per occurrence.

              Advice, counsel, and representation by your Provider Lawyer for one
              pre-termination hearing each membership year -- at no additional cost.

              24 hour Toll-free telephone access to your provider lawyer in the event of
              an emergency arising from your direct employment responsibilities while on
              active duty as a law enforcement officer.

              Your Provider Lawyer will also help with post-termination hearings (before a
              review board or arbitrator) as described below. (Additional preparation time
              is covered under your 25% discount.)

              1st member year: 60 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
              including 2.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

              2nd year renewal: 120 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
              including 3 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

              3rd year renewal: 180 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
              including 3.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

              4th year renewal: 240 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
              including 4 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

              5th year renewal: 300 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
              including 4.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.


              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              Trial Defense Services
              You and your spouse also have coverage for representation by your Provider
              Lawyer if either of you are named defendant or respondent in a covered civil
              or job-related criminal action filed in court. Hours available for
              representation increase each membership year.

              1st member year:
              75 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 17.5 hours
              of pre-trial time.

              2nd year renewal:
              140 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 23 hours of
              pre-trial time.

              3rd year renewal:
              205 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 28.5 hours
              of pre-trial time.

              4th year renewal:
              270 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 34 hours of
              pre-trial time.

              5th year renewal:
              335 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 39.5 hours
              of pre-trial time.

              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              Motor Vehicle Related Services
              It's your worst nightmare - a tragic accident resulting in loss of life,
              especially in the line of duty. If you are driving a vehicle, with the
              express consent and permission of the owner of the vehicle, and you are
              involved in an accident that results in your being criminally charged with
              manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or vehicular
              homicide, you will be entitled to defense of the charge by your provider
              lawyer in the court of original jurisdiction.

              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              IRS Audit Legal Services
              Pre-Paid Legal takes the bite out of an IRS audit with up to 50 hours of
              professional services for either you, your spouse, or your dependent
              children when notified in writing of an IRS audit, or requested to appear at
              the IRS about your tax return.
              Your 50 hours break down to:

              One hour for consultation, advice, assistance when notified of an audit.

              2.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached in 30 days.
              Available for representation, negotiations, conferences, telephone
              conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.

              46.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached without
              litigation and the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax, and sue the
              IRS.

              Coverage begins with the return due on April 15 of the year your membership
              is effective. Services under this benefit available through your Provider
              Lawyer.


              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              Other Legal Services
              Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her
              standard or corporate hourly rate for you or your spouse should you need
              legal assistance or litigation services not otherwise covered by this
              membership. Your Provider Lawyer must have five days notice prior to court
              representation. Telephone advice is available immediately.

              * Additional Information & Exclusions


              Additional Information & Exclusions:

              Due to regulatory requirements, benefits and rates vary in certain states
              and provinces. The information contained on this material is for
              illustrative purposes only and is not a contract. It is intended to provide
              a general overview of plan coverage; only a plan contract can give actual
              terms, coverage, amounts, conditions and exclusions.

              Phone Consultation: Nevada residents limited to 50 hours of telephone
              consultation per year.

              Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is
              available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

              Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal
              documents reviewed per year.

              Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A
              standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no
              additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared
              for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.

              Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
              this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
              any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
              chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
              other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
              active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
              separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
              conditions are not covered.

              Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and
              spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other
              divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related
              matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an
              accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a
              commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this
              benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional
              exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having
              criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner,
              management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement
              with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge.
              Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the
              lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your
              membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or
              foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your
              Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed
              after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred
              member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in
              which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also,
              this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal.
              Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim
              or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without
              merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or
              decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or
              defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal
              will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides
              their professional services.

              Motor Vehicle Related Services: Benefits are available 15 days after
              enrollment. Not covered are pre-existing conditions, charges related to
              DUI/DWI or drug related matters, matters arising from the use of a
              commercial vehicle with more than 2 axles, hit and run related charges, or
              charges where the covered person is driving without a valid operator's
              license.

              IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment,
              attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus
              curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns,
              payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or
              portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing
              conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment,
              and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due
              on April 15th of the first membership year.

              Other Legal Services: The standard hourly rate discount for law enforcement
              matters may differ from the standard hourly rate discount offered for
              non-law enforcement related assistance due to the complexity and lawyer
              specialization needed in law enforcement cases. A retainer may be required
              before services are rendered under this benefit.


              Vicki Siedow
              Siedow & Associates Investigations
              & Custom Legal Support Services
              2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
              La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
              818-242-0130
              800-448-6431
              818-688-3295 fax
              Siedow@...
              http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
              CA Lic. PI #22852
              Member NCISS
              Need economical legal help?
              http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Gerri Edler [mailto:gedler@...]
              Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:01 PM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



              As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152,
              (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

              In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by
              PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give
              police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on
              or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE
              ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime,
              anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

              We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one
              needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

              In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police
              department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the
              fan.

              1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida.
              Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge
              and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered
              that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to
              room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking
              for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer
              requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL
              offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's
              choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received
              restitution).

              2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They
              had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a
              scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It
              was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL.
              She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty
              and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

              3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded
              a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme.
              He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not
              covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).


              After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000;
              AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot
              about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we
              wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters
              to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

              It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a
              shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A
              local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


              Gerri Edler, LPI
              Lic# 5922-111704-LA
              Black Horse Agency LLC
              PO Box 60279
              Lafayette, LA 70596
              Email:gerri@...

              --
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              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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