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RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02

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  • Gerri Edler
    As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman s Association, Local 152, (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL. In June of 1998 the NIPA
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 3, 2005
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      As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152, (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

      In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime, anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

      We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

      In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the fan.

      1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida. Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received restitution).

      2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL. She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

      3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme. He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).

      After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000; AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

      It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


      Gerri Edler, LPI
      Lic# 5922-111704-LA
      Black Horse Agency LLC
      PO Box 60279
      Lafayette, LA 70596
      Email:gerri@...
    • Vicki Siedow
      It sure sounds like you didn t get a good explanation of the plan. It s also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will drawn, a
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
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        It sure sounds like you didn't get a good explanation of the plan. It's
        also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will
        drawn, a contract reviewed, a letter of phone call on their behalf, etc? As
        I've said, it's heavily on the preventive side. It does cover a number of
        hours if YOU ARE SUED IN CIVIL COURT. It is defensive. It does not cover
        hours if you want to bring suit. They will advise you, write a letter, etc.
        but not represent at no cost you in a civil suit that you bring. They do
        not want to be in the position of siging up a bunch of people who then
        proceed to file one frivolous suit after another. It would be foolhardy and
        irresponsible.

        They also do not cover most criminal, drug or alchohol related matters.
        They do not want to have a bunch of gangsters sign up and proceed to raise
        heck, knowing that they have free legal help to get them off. They DO cover
        work related criminal, which is most of what a PI will need. They also
        cover from start to finish all non alchohol related accidental deaths by
        vehicle. We recently had a cop who was driving home from a long shift, hit
        someone and killed them. The case went for months, and all was covered.

        PPL is a very conservative and responsible group. They are absolutely anal
        about doing things legally and correctly. They do not want to encourage
        more frivolous lawsuits or cirme, so they took care to exclude those areas
        of coverage that they thought could be abused. It's true that it doesn't
        cover everything, but there is a very good reason for that, I think. It
        does cover a whole heck of a lot for a measly $26 a month for a couple and
        their kids. If you do the Will alone you've saved money. I can show you
        mountains of success stories, some of them mine. My PPL attorneys have
        saved me a ton of money and time.

        Let me think. For example, they've reviewed my contracts, advised me on
        many cases, helped me collect money owed me, helped me get my city to change
        their housing contracts, handle a towed car, a tree falling on a house,
        complete divorce papers, dissolving a disputed Corp. Sort out my mortgage
        bank on numerous occasions when they mess up my account and ignore me
        (that's a whole epic in itself, that bank is absolutely psychotic)

        The company was started by a man who sold insurance. He was in an accident
        in which someone died. Even though the other driver was cited at the scene,
        they sued him in civil court, and it cost him everything he had to defend
        himself. He had medical and auto insurance, but they don't cover this sort
        of case. He decided to fill in that gap. Similar plans have been popular
        for years in parts of Europe. Being an Insurance man, he adapted it and
        brought it here. No one should ever say that it does everything, it does
        not, but it does do an excellent job of keeping people out of legal trouble
        and helping them out of a jam here and there. It is not designed for
        criminals or to encourage litigation. Your members should have used the
        plan for what it was designed. I'm very sorry that whomever explained the
        plan did not apparently make it clear, although the member packages you all
        received should have handled that.

        So in the examples you relate:

        1) "Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue
        the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an
        attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. "

        That's correct, PPL does not represent you in a civil suit that you bring.
        They do offer a 25% discount off the normal rates for anything that's not
        otherwise covered, criminal, etc. included. They do advise you on how to
        handle it, and will write one letter per matter, in this instance demanding
        restitution. Additional letters and calls are available inexpensively.
        I've had them write letters for me, and all have gotten results.

        2) "She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off
        duty and alcohol was involved. "

        That's correct. The exclusions include drugs and alchohol, and on this plan
        (Law Officers) administrative discipline for off-duty occurrances.

        3) "disciplinary action is not covered"

        Actually, I don't see that exact exclusion. I'd need to know more about
        this instance. The main exclusion clause that applies in your instances is
        this:

        "Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
        this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
        any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
        chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
        other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
        active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
        separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
        conditions are not covered. "

        This is the description of the plan that I'm guessing you had.

        Expanded Law Officers Legal Plan

        Preventive Legal Services
        Toll Free Phone Consultations with your Provider Lawyer

        This plan offers, unlimited telephone access to your Provider Law Firm for
        personal and business advice when you enroll. Call the toll-free number
        during business hours when you have a non-emergency legal problem or
        question.


        Phone Calls and Letters...

        A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you
        want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when
        that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject
        related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two
        business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for
        same subject at 25% discount.


        Contract and Document Review...

        You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten
        pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one
        business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will
        analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.


        Wills for You and Your Family...


        A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one
        that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates.
        Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20.
        Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation
        Up to 10 hours of legal consultation, advice and representation for 2
        administrative inquiries or investigations per membership year; up to 5
        hours of assistance per occurrence.

        Advice, counsel, and representation by your Provider Lawyer for one
        pre-termination hearing each membership year -- at no additional cost.

        24 hour Toll-free telephone access to your provider lawyer in the event of
        an emergency arising from your direct employment responsibilities while on
        active duty as a law enforcement officer.

        Your Provider Lawyer will also help with post-termination hearings (before a
        review board or arbitrator) as described below. (Additional preparation time
        is covered under your 25% discount.)

        1st member year: 60 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
        including 2.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

        2nd year renewal: 120 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
        including 3 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

        3rd year renewal: 180 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
        including 3.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

        4th year renewal: 240 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
        including 4 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

        5th year renewal: 300 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
        including 4.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.


        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        Trial Defense Services
        You and your spouse also have coverage for representation by your Provider
        Lawyer if either of you are named defendant or respondent in a covered civil
        or job-related criminal action filed in court. Hours available for
        representation increase each membership year.

        1st member year:
        75 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 17.5 hours
        of pre-trial time.

        2nd year renewal:
        140 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 23 hours of
        pre-trial time.

        3rd year renewal:
        205 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 28.5 hours
        of pre-trial time.

        4th year renewal:
        270 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 34 hours of
        pre-trial time.

        5th year renewal:
        335 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 39.5 hours
        of pre-trial time.

        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        Motor Vehicle Related Services
        It's your worst nightmare - a tragic accident resulting in loss of life,
        especially in the line of duty. If you are driving a vehicle, with the
        express consent and permission of the owner of the vehicle, and you are
        involved in an accident that results in your being criminally charged with
        manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or vehicular
        homicide, you will be entitled to defense of the charge by your provider
        lawyer in the court of original jurisdiction.

        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        IRS Audit Legal Services
        Pre-Paid Legal takes the bite out of an IRS audit with up to 50 hours of
        professional services for either you, your spouse, or your dependent
        children when notified in writing of an IRS audit, or requested to appear at
        the IRS about your tax return.
        Your 50 hours break down to:

        One hour for consultation, advice, assistance when notified of an audit.

        2.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached in 30 days.
        Available for representation, negotiations, conferences, telephone
        conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.

        46.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached without
        litigation and the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax, and sue the
        IRS.

        Coverage begins with the return due on April 15 of the year your membership
        is effective. Services under this benefit available through your Provider
        Lawyer.


        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        Other Legal Services
        Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her
        standard or corporate hourly rate for you or your spouse should you need
        legal assistance or litigation services not otherwise covered by this
        membership. Your Provider Lawyer must have five days notice prior to court
        representation. Telephone advice is available immediately.

        * Additional Information & Exclusions


        Additional Information & Exclusions:

        Due to regulatory requirements, benefits and rates vary in certain states
        and provinces. The information contained on this material is for
        illustrative purposes only and is not a contract. It is intended to provide
        a general overview of plan coverage; only a plan contract can give actual
        terms, coverage, amounts, conditions and exclusions.

        Phone Consultation: Nevada residents limited to 50 hours of telephone
        consultation per year.

        Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is
        available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

        Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal
        documents reviewed per year.

        Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A
        standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no
        additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared
        for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.

        Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
        this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
        any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
        chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
        other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
        active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
        separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
        conditions are not covered.

        Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and
        spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other
        divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related
        matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an
        accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a
        commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this
        benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional
        exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having
        criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner,
        management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement
        with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge.
        Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the
        lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your
        membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or
        foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your
        Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed
        after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred
        member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in
        which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also,
        this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal.
        Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim
        or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without
        merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or
        decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or
        defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal
        will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides
        their professional services.

        Motor Vehicle Related Services: Benefits are available 15 days after
        enrollment. Not covered are pre-existing conditions, charges related to
        DUI/DWI or drug related matters, matters arising from the use of a
        commercial vehicle with more than 2 axles, hit and run related charges, or
        charges where the covered person is driving without a valid operator's
        license.

        IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment,
        attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus
        curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns,
        payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or
        portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing
        conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment,
        and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due
        on April 15th of the first membership year.

        Other Legal Services: The standard hourly rate discount for law enforcement
        matters may differ from the standard hourly rate discount offered for
        non-law enforcement related assistance due to the complexity and lawyer
        specialization needed in law enforcement cases. A retainer may be required
        before services are rendered under this benefit.


        Vicki Siedow
        Siedow & Associates Investigations
        & Custom Legal Support Services
        2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
        La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
        818-242-0130
        800-448-6431
        818-688-3295 fax
        Siedow@...
        http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
        CA Lic. PI #22852
        Member NCISS
        Need economical legal help?
        http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gerri Edler [mailto:gedler@...]
        Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:01 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



        As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152,
        (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

        In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by
        PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give
        police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on
        or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE
        ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime,
        anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

        We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one
        needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

        In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police
        department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the
        fan.

        1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida.
        Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge
        and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered
        that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to
        room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking
        for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer
        requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL
        offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's
        choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received
        restitution).

        2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They
        had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a
        scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It
        was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL.
        She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty
        and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

        3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded
        a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme.
        He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not
        covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).


        After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000;
        AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot
        about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we
        wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters
        to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

        It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a
        shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A
        local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


        Gerri Edler, LPI
        Lic# 5922-111704-LA
        Black Horse Agency LLC
        PO Box 60279
        Lafayette, LA 70596
        Email:gerri@...

        --
        No virus found in this outgoing message.
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      • grubiopi@aol.com
        I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can argue
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can argue effectively for either. Eventually though, it becomes opointless to keep arguing the same points. If you are for, more power to you, if you are against it so be it. I just do not understand why after so any postings it is still being debated. I am sure in some instances it may very well be beneficial to some and others it is a waste of time. Either way, let's move on already.

          Gilbert Rubio
          Global Security & Investigations
          www.global007.com
          Houston, Texas
          (713)725-1527

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...>
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:11:45 -0700
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




          It sure sounds like you didn't get a good explanation of the plan. It's
          also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will
          drawn, a contract reviewed, a letter of phone call on their behalf, etc? As
          I've said, it's heavily on the preventive side. It does cover a number of
          hours if YOU ARE SUED IN CIVIL COURT. It is defensive. It does not cover
          hours if you want to bring suit. They will advise you, write a letter, etc.
          but not represent at no cost you in a civil suit that you bring. They do
          not want to be in the position of siging up a bunch of people who then
          proceed to file one frivolous suit after another. It would be foolhardy and
          irresponsible.

          They also do not cover most criminal, drug or alchohol related matters.
          They do not want to have a bunch of gangsters sign up and proceed to raise
          heck, knowing that they have free legal help to get them off. They DO cover
          work related criminal, which is most of what a PI will need. They also
          cover from start to finish all non alchohol related accidental deaths by
          vehicle. We recently had a cop who was driving home from a long shift, hit
          someone and killed them. The case went for months, and all was covered.

          PPL is a very conservative and responsible group. They are absolutely anal
          about doing things legally and correctly. They do not want to encourage
          more frivolous lawsuits or cirme, so they took care to exclude those areas
          of coverage that they thought could be abused. It's true that it doesn't
          cover everything, but there is a very good reason for that, I think. It
          does cover a whole heck of a lot for a measly $26 a month for a couple and
          their kids. If you do the Will alone you've saved money. I can show you
          mountains of success stories, some of them mine. My PPL attorneys have
          saved me a ton of money and time.

          Let me think. For example, they've reviewed my contracts, advised me on
          many cases, helped me collect money owed me, helped me get my city to change
          their housing contracts, handle a towed car, a tree falling on a house,
          complete divorce papers, dissolving a disputed Corp. Sort out my mortgage
          bank on numerous occasions when they mess up my account and ignore me
          (that's a whole epic in itself, that bank is absolutely psychotic)

          The company was started by a man who sold insurance. He was in an accident
          in which someone died. Even though the other driver was cited at the scene,
          they sued him in civil court, and it cost him everything he had to defend
          himself. He had medical and auto insurance, but they don't cover this sort
          of case. He decided to fill in that gap. Similar plans have been popular
          for years in parts of Europe. Being an Insurance man, he adapted it and
          brought it here. No one should ever say that it does everything, it does
          not, but it does do an excellent job of keeping people out of legal trouble
          and helping them out of a jam here and there. It is not designed for
          criminals or to encourage litigation. Your members should have used the
          plan for what it was designed. I'm very sorry that whomever explained the
          plan did not apparently make it clear, although the member packages you all
          received should have handled that.

          So in the examples you relate:

          1) "Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue
          the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an
          attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. "

          That's correct, PPL does not represent you in a civil suit that you bring.
          They do offer a 25% discount off the normal rates for anything that's not
          otherwise covered, criminal, etc. included. They do advise you on how to
          handle it, and will write one letter per matter, in this instance demanding
          restitution. Additional letters and calls are available inexpensively.
          I've had them write letters for me, and all have gotten results.

          2) "She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off
          duty and alcohol was involved. "

          That's correct. The exclusions include drugs and alchohol, and on this plan
          (Law Officers) administrative discipline for off-duty occurrances.

          3) "disciplinary action is not covered"

          Actually, I don't see that exact exclusion. I'd need to know more about
          this instance. The main exclusion clause that applies in your instances is
          this:

          "Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
          this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
          any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
          chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
          other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
          active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
          separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
          conditions are not covered. "

          This is the description of the plan that I'm guessing you had.

          Expanded Law Officers Legal Plan

          Preventive Legal Services
          Toll Free Phone Consultations with your Provider Lawyer

          This plan offers, unlimited telephone access to your Provider Law Firm for
          personal and business advice when you enroll. Call the toll-free number
          during business hours when you have a non-emergency legal problem or
          question.


          Phone Calls and Letters...

          A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you
          want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when
          that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject
          related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two
          business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for
          same subject at 25% discount.


          Contract and Document Review...

          You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten
          pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one
          business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will
          analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.


          Wills for You and Your Family...


          A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one
          that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates.
          Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20.
          Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation
          Up to 10 hours of legal consultation, advice and representation for 2
          administrative inquiries or investigations per membership year; up to 5
          hours of assistance per occurrence.

          Advice, counsel, and representation by your Provider Lawyer for one
          pre-termination hearing each membership year -- at no additional cost.

          24 hour Toll-free telephone access to your provider lawyer in the event of
          an emergency arising from your direct employment responsibilities while on
          active duty as a law enforcement officer.

          Your Provider Lawyer will also help with post-termination hearings (before a
          review board or arbitrator) as described below. (Additional preparation time
          is covered under your 25% discount.)

          1st member year: 60 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
          including 2.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

          2nd year renewal: 120 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
          including 3 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

          3rd year renewal: 180 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
          including 3.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

          4th year renewal: 240 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
          including 4 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

          5th year renewal: 300 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
          including 4.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.


          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          Trial Defense Services
          You and your spouse also have coverage for representation by your Provider
          Lawyer if either of you are named defendant or respondent in a covered civil
          or job-related criminal action filed in court. Hours available for
          representation increase each membership year.

          1st member year:
          75 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 17.5 hours
          of pre-trial time.

          2nd year renewal:
          140 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 23 hours of
          pre-trial time.

          3rd year renewal:
          205 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 28.5 hours
          of pre-trial time.

          4th year renewal:
          270 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 34 hours of
          pre-trial time.

          5th year renewal:
          335 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 39.5 hours
          of pre-trial time.

          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          Motor Vehicle Related Services
          It's your worst nightmare - a tragic accident resulting in loss of life,
          especially in the line of duty. If you are driving a vehicle, with the
          express consent and permission of the owner of the vehicle, and you are
          involved in an accident that results in your being criminally charged with
          manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or vehicular
          homicide, you will be entitled to defense of the charge by your provider
          lawyer in the court of original jurisdiction.

          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          IRS Audit Legal Services
          Pre-Paid Legal takes the bite out of an IRS audit with up to 50 hours of
          professional services for either you, your spouse, or your dependent
          children when notified in writing of an IRS audit, or requested to appear at
          the IRS about your tax return.
          Your 50 hours break down to:

          One hour for consultation, advice, assistance when notified of an audit.

          2.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached in 30 days.
          Available for representation, negotiations, conferences, telephone
          conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.

          46.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached without
          litigation and the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax, and sue the
          IRS.

          Coverage begins with the return due on April 15 of the year your membership
          is effective. Services under this benefit available through your Provider
          Lawyer.


          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          Other Legal Services
          Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her
          standard or corporate hourly rate for you or your spouse should you need
          legal assistance or litigation services not otherwise covered by this
          membership. Your Provider Lawyer must have five days notice prior to court
          representation. Telephone advice is available immediately.

          * Additional Information & Exclusions


          Additional Information & Exclusions:

          Due to regulatory requirements, benefits and rates vary in certain states
          and provinces. The information contained on this material is for
          illustrative purposes only and is not a contract. It is intended to provide
          a general overview of plan coverage; only a plan contract can give actual
          terms, coverage, amounts, conditions and exclusions.

          Phone Consultation: Nevada residents limited to 50 hours of telephone
          consultation per year.

          Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is
          available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

          Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal
          documents reviewed per year.

          Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A
          standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no
          additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared
          for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.

          Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
          this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
          any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
          chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
          other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
          active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
          separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
          conditions are not covered.

          Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and
          spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other
          divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related
          matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an
          accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a
          commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this
          benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional
          exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having
          criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner,
          management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement
          with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge.
          Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the
          lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your
          membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or
          foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your
          Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed
          after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred
          member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in
          which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also,
          this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal.
          Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim
          or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without
          merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or
          decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or
          defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal
          will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides
          their professional services.

          Motor Vehicle Related Services: Benefits are available 15 days after
          enrollment. Not covered are pre-existing conditions, charges related to
          DUI/DWI or drug related matters, matters arising from the use of a
          commercial vehicle with more than 2 axles, hit and run related charges, or
          charges where the covered person is driving without a valid operator's
          license.

          IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment,
          attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus
          curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns,
          payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or
          portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing
          conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment,
          and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due
          on April 15th of the first membership year.

          Other Legal Services: The standard hourly rate discount for law enforcement
          matters may differ from the standard hourly rate discount offered for
          non-law enforcement related assistance due to the complexity and lawyer
          specialization needed in law enforcement cases. A retainer may be required
          before services are rendered under this benefit.


          Vicki Siedow
          Siedow & Associates Investigations
          & Custom Legal Support Services
          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
          La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
          818-242-0130
          800-448-6431
          818-688-3295 fax
          Siedow@...
          http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
          CA Lic. PI #22852
          Member NCISS
          Need economical legal help?
          http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Gerri Edler [mailto:gedler@...]
          Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:01 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



          As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152,
          (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

          In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by
          PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give
          police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on
          or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE
          ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime,
          anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

          We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one
          needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

          In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police
          department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the
          fan.

          1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida.
          Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge
          and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered
          that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to
          room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking
          for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer
          requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL
          offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's
          choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received
          restitution).

          2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They
          had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a
          scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It
          was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL.
          She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty
          and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

          3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded
          a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme.
          He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not
          covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).


          After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000;
          AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot
          about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we
          wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters
          to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

          It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a
          shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A
          local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


          Gerri Edler, LPI
          Lic# 5922-111704-LA
          Black Horse Agency LLC
          PO Box 60279
          Lafayette, LA 70596
          Email:gerri@...

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          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005








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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sherlockhomz@aol.com
          Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue debates now and then ad nauseam. Martin Lichtig NYS Licensed Private Investigator
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
            debates now and then ad nauseam.

            Martin Lichtig
            NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process Server
            #0965095
            Certified Member NYSPPA
            3874 Valleyview St.
            Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
            914-528-1875
            Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX 108XX
            and 914 & 845 Area Codes


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • twnsnd_mrk
            Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never offer any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate they have tired of?
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never
              offer any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate
              they have tired of? They just seem to want the list to stop dead in
              the water, as that's what inevitably happens in reponse to these
              whining entreaties.

              Like the doctor saud, if reading these posts hurts your heads, don't
              read them.

              My take on pre-paid legal is this: If the plan, in effect, promises
              good legal representation at highly reduced costs, it's "too good to
              be true," and therefor to be avoided.

              Mark

              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, sherlockhomz@a... wrote:
              >
              > Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
              > debates now and then ad nauseam.
              >
              > Martin Lichtig
              > NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process
              Server
              > #0965095
              > Certified Member NYSPPA
              > 3874 Valleyview St.
              > Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
              > 914-528-1875
              > Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX
              108XX
              > and 914 & 845 Area Codes
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Vicki Siedow
              I thought so, too. I checked it out, expecting the worst, and was very surprised to find that it is a good deal. Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                I thought so, too. I checked it out, expecting the worst, and was very
                surprised to find that it is a good deal.


                Vicki Siedow
                Siedow & Associates Investigations
                & Custom Legal Support Services
                2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                818-242-0130
                800-448-6431
                818-688-3295 fax
                Siedow@...
                http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                CA Lic. PI #22852
                Member NCISS
                Need economical legal help?
                http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                -----Original Message-----
                From: twnsnd_mrk [mailto:twnsnd_mrk@...]
                Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 4:17 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




                Did you ever notice that the people who want to limit debates never offer
                any subject of interest to discuss that would replace the debate they have
                tired of? They just seem to want the list to stop dead in the water, as
                that's what inevitably happens in reponse to these whining entreaties.

                Like the doctor saud, if reading these posts hurts your heads, don't read
                them.

                My take on pre-paid legal is this: If the plan, in effect, promises good
                legal representation at highly reduced costs, it's "too good to be true,"
                and therefor to be avoided.

                Mark

                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, sherlockhomz@a... wrote:
                >
                > Amen Gilbert, a number of our fellow Investigators do like to continue
                > debates now and then ad nauseam.
                >
                > Martin Lichtig
                > NYS Licensed Private Investigator #11000051467/NYC Licensed Process
                Server
                > #0965095
                > Certified Member NYSPPA
                > 3874 Valleyview St.
                > Mohegan Lake, NY 10547
                > 914-528-1875
                > Serving Westchester & Putnam Counties Zip Codes 105XX, 106XX 107XX
                108XX
                > and 914 & 845 Area Codes
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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              • John MacIntire
                Gilbert is right on! I have read and evaluated the many posts and it is beyond time to move onto other issues. Most of the posts have been detailed and
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gilbert is right on! I have read and evaluated the many posts and it is
                  beyond time to move onto other issues. Most of the posts have been detailed
                  and informative yet the personalities are taking over. Ave those posts for
                  direct contact so that the group can continue to learn and network aside
                  from the fray.

                  All the best to the group!

                  God Bless Our Troops and the United States!

                  John


                  John R.W. MacIntire, Jr.

                  President

                  MacIntire & Associates, Inc.

                  531 West Plata, Suite #200

                  Tucson, Arizona 85705

                  (800) 641-2737 / (520) 622-2737

                  (888) 882-5205 / (520) 792-2764 Fax

                  <mailto:john@...> john@...

                  <http://www.macintireandassociates.com/> www.macintireandassociates.com

                  AZ PI #8008002

                  Member: NCISS, INTELNET, AFOSISA, AALPI, ASIS



                  "Information for Peace of Mind"



                  Confidentiality Notice



                  The documents accompanying this telecopy transmission contains confidential
                  information, which is legally privileged. The information is intended only
                  for the use of the recipient. If you have received this transmission in
                  error, please notify use by telephone to coordinate the return of the
                  documents, and you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
                  distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the
                  telecopied document is strictly prohibited.



                  _____

                  From: grubiopi@... [mailto:grubiopi@...]
                  Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:37 PM
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



                  I find it amazing how much time has actually been spent discussing the same
                  topic of PPL. I have read through the pros and cons. I suppose one can
                  argue effectively for either. Eventually though, it becomes opointless to
                  keep arguing the same points. If you are for, more power to you, if you are
                  against it so be it. I just do not understand why after so any postings it
                  is still being debated. I am sure in some instances it may very well be
                  beneficial to some and others it is a waste of time. Either way, let's move
                  on already.

                  Gilbert Rubio
                  Global Security & Investigations
                  www.global007.com
                  Houston, Texas
                  (713)725-1527

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...>
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:11:45 -0700
                  Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02




                  It sure sounds like you didn't get a good explanation of the plan. It's
                  also too bad that no one used it for what it does do. No one had a Will
                  drawn, a contract reviewed, a letter of phone call on their behalf, etc? As
                  I've said, it's heavily on the preventive side. It does cover a number of
                  hours if YOU ARE SUED IN CIVIL COURT. It is defensive. It does not cover
                  hours if you want to bring suit. They will advise you, write a letter, etc.
                  but not represent at no cost you in a civil suit that you bring. They do
                  not want to be in the position of siging up a bunch of people who then
                  proceed to file one frivolous suit after another. It would be foolhardy and
                  irresponsible.

                  They also do not cover most criminal, drug or alchohol related matters.
                  They do not want to have a bunch of gangsters sign up and proceed to raise
                  heck, knowing that they have free legal help to get them off. They DO cover
                  work related criminal, which is most of what a PI will need. They also
                  cover from start to finish all non alchohol related accidental deaths by
                  vehicle. We recently had a cop who was driving home from a long shift, hit
                  someone and killed them. The case went for months, and all was covered.

                  PPL is a very conservative and responsible group. They are absolutely anal
                  about doing things legally and correctly. They do not want to encourage
                  more frivolous lawsuits or cirme, so they took care to exclude those areas
                  of coverage that they thought could be abused. It's true that it doesn't
                  cover everything, but there is a very good reason for that, I think. It
                  does cover a whole heck of a lot for a measly $26 a month for a couple and
                  their kids. If you do the Will alone you've saved money. I can show you
                  mountains of success stories, some of them mine. My PPL attorneys have
                  saved me a ton of money and time.

                  Let me think. For example, they've reviewed my contracts, advised me on
                  many cases, helped me collect money owed me, helped me get my city to change
                  their housing contracts, handle a towed car, a tree falling on a house,
                  complete divorce papers, dissolving a disputed Corp. Sort out my mortgage
                  bank on numerous occasions when they mess up my account and ignore me
                  (that's a whole epic in itself, that bank is absolutely psychotic)

                  The company was started by a man who sold insurance. He was in an accident
                  in which someone died. Even though the other driver was cited at the scene,
                  they sued him in civil court, and it cost him everything he had to defend
                  himself. He had medical and auto insurance, but they don't cover this sort
                  of case. He decided to fill in that gap. Similar plans have been popular
                  for years in parts of Europe. Being an Insurance man, he adapted it and
                  brought it here. No one should ever say that it does everything, it does
                  not, but it does do an excellent job of keeping people out of legal trouble
                  and helping them out of a jam here and there. It is not designed for
                  criminals or to encourage litigation. Your members should have used the
                  plan for what it was designed. I'm very sorry that whomever explained the
                  plan did not apparently make it clear, although the member packages you all
                  received should have handled that.

                  So in the examples you relate:

                  1) "Our officer requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue
                  the motel. PPL offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an
                  attorney of PPL's choice and they would write a letter to the motel. "

                  That's correct, PPL does not represent you in a civil suit that you bring.
                  They do offer a 25% discount off the normal rates for anything that's not
                  otherwise covered, criminal, etc. included. They do advise you on how to
                  handle it, and will write one letter per matter, in this instance demanding
                  restitution. Additional letters and calls are available inexpensively.
                  I've had them write letters for me, and all have gotten results.

                  2) "She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off
                  duty and alcohol was involved. "

                  That's correct. The exclusions include drugs and alchohol, and on this plan
                  (Law Officers) administrative discipline for off-duty occurrances.

                  3) "disciplinary action is not covered"

                  Actually, I don't see that exact exclusion. I'd need to know more about
                  this instance. The main exclusion clause that applies in your instances is
                  this:

                  "Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
                  this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
                  any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
                  chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
                  other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
                  active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
                  separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
                  conditions are not covered. "

                  This is the description of the plan that I'm guessing you had.

                  Expanded Law Officers Legal Plan

                  Preventive Legal Services
                  Toll Free Phone Consultations with your Provider Lawyer

                  This plan offers, unlimited telephone access to your Provider Law Firm for
                  personal and business advice when you enroll. Call the toll-free number
                  during business hours when you have a non-emergency legal problem or
                  question.


                  Phone Calls and Letters...

                  A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you
                  want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when
                  that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject
                  related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two
                  business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for
                  same subject at 25% discount.


                  Contract and Document Review...

                  You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten
                  pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one
                  business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will
                  analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.


                  Wills for You and Your Family...


                  A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one
                  that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates.
                  Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20.
                  Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation
                  Up to 10 hours of legal consultation, advice and representation for 2
                  administrative inquiries or investigations per membership year; up to 5
                  hours of assistance per occurrence.

                  Advice, counsel, and representation by your Provider Lawyer for one
                  pre-termination hearing each membership year -- at no additional cost.

                  24 hour Toll-free telephone access to your provider lawyer in the event of
                  an emergency arising from your direct employment responsibilities while on
                  active duty as a law enforcement officer.

                  Your Provider Lawyer will also help with post-termination hearings (before a
                  review board or arbitrator) as described below. (Additional preparation time
                  is covered under your 25% discount.)

                  1st member year: 60 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
                  including 2.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

                  2nd year renewal: 120 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
                  including 3 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

                  3rd year renewal: 180 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
                  including 3.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

                  4th year renewal: 240 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
                  including 4 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.

                  5th year renewal: 300 hours of actual hearing time at no added charge
                  including 4.5 hours of pre-hearing assistance, counsel.


                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  Trial Defense Services
                  You and your spouse also have coverage for representation by your Provider
                  Lawyer if either of you are named defendant or respondent in a covered civil
                  or job-related criminal action filed in court. Hours available for
                  representation increase each membership year.

                  1st member year:
                  75 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 17.5 hours
                  of pre-trial time.

                  2nd year renewal:
                  140 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 23 hours of
                  pre-trial time.

                  3rd year renewal:
                  205 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 28.5 hours
                  of pre-trial time.

                  4th year renewal:
                  270 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 34 hours of
                  pre-trial time.

                  5th year renewal:
                  335 hours of actual trial time at no additional charge including 39.5 hours
                  of pre-trial time.

                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  Motor Vehicle Related Services
                  It's your worst nightmare - a tragic accident resulting in loss of life,
                  especially in the line of duty. If you are driving a vehicle, with the
                  express consent and permission of the owner of the vehicle, and you are
                  involved in an accident that results in your being criminally charged with
                  manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or vehicular
                  homicide, you will be entitled to defense of the charge by your provider
                  lawyer in the court of original jurisdiction.

                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  IRS Audit Legal Services
                  Pre-Paid Legal takes the bite out of an IRS audit with up to 50 hours of
                  professional services for either you, your spouse, or your dependent
                  children when notified in writing of an IRS audit, or requested to appear at
                  the IRS about your tax return.
                  Your 50 hours break down to:

                  One hour for consultation, advice, assistance when notified of an audit.

                  2.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached in 30 days.
                  Available for representation, negotiations, conferences, telephone
                  conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.

                  46.5 hours at no added charge if settlement is not reached without
                  litigation and the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax, and sue the
                  IRS.

                  Coverage begins with the return due on April 15 of the year your membership
                  is effective. Services under this benefit available through your Provider
                  Lawyer.


                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  Other Legal Services
                  Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her
                  standard or corporate hourly rate for you or your spouse should you need
                  legal assistance or litigation services not otherwise covered by this
                  membership. Your Provider Lawyer must have five days notice prior to court
                  representation. Telephone advice is available immediately.

                  * Additional Information & Exclusions


                  Additional Information & Exclusions:

                  Due to regulatory requirements, benefits and rates vary in certain states
                  and provinces. The information contained on this material is for
                  illustrative purposes only and is not a contract. It is intended to provide
                  a general overview of plan coverage; only a plan contract can give actual
                  terms, coverage, amounts, conditions and exclusions.

                  Phone Consultation: Nevada residents limited to 50 hours of telephone
                  consultation per year.

                  Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is
                  available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

                  Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal
                  documents reviewed per year.

                  Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A
                  standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no
                  additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared
                  for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.

                  Administrative and Termination Hearing Representation: Not covered under
                  this benefit are hearings and investigations or inquiries which result from
                  any alcohol or drug-related matter or allegation involving the use of
                  chemicals. Also not covered are hearings resulting from matters arising
                  other than from the direct performance of job responsibilities while on
                  active duty, such as reduction in force or any other termination or
                  separation from service unrelated to job performance. Pre-existing
                  conditions are not covered.

                  Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and
                  spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other
                  divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related
                  matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an
                  accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a
                  commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this
                  benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional
                  exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having
                  criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner,
                  management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement
                  with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge.
                  Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the
                  lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your
                  membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or
                  foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your
                  Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed
                  after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred
                  member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in
                  which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also,
                  this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal.
                  Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim
                  or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without
                  merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or
                  decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or
                  defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal
                  will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides
                  their professional services.

                  Motor Vehicle Related Services: Benefits are available 15 days after
                  enrollment. Not covered are pre-existing conditions, charges related to
                  DUI/DWI or drug related matters, matters arising from the use of a
                  commercial vehicle with more than 2 axles, hit and run related charges, or
                  charges where the covered person is driving without a valid operator's
                  license.

                  IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment,
                  attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus
                  curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns,
                  payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or
                  portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing
                  conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment,
                  and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due
                  on April 15th of the first membership year.

                  Other Legal Services: The standard hourly rate discount for law enforcement
                  matters may differ from the standard hourly rate discount offered for
                  non-law enforcement related assistance due to the complexity and lawyer
                  specialization needed in law enforcement cases. A retainer may be required
                  before services are rendered under this benefit.


                  Vicki Siedow
                  Siedow & Associates Investigations
                  & Custom Legal Support Services
                  2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                  La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                  818-242-0130
                  800-448-6431
                  818-688-3295 fax
                  Siedow@...
                  http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                  CA Lic. PI #22852
                  Member NCISS
                  Need economical legal help?
                  http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Gerri Edler [mailto:gedler@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:01 PM
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [infoguys-list] RE: Pre-Paid Legal -- My .02



                  As the office manager for the New Iberia Policeman's Association, Local 152,
                  (www.nipoa.org), I have personal experience with PPL.

                  In June of 1998 the NIPA General Membership listened to a presentation by
                  PPL sales associates. It was impressive and sounded like it would give
                  police officers peace of mind -if they ever needed representation whether on
                  or off duty, it would be there. The presentation indicated "You need us? WE
                  ARE THERE!!" All you have to do is call. We'll come to you anytime,
                  anywhere." The membership voted YES to PPL.

                  We signed up 60-70 members and started paying the monthly bill. No one
                  needed an attorney for anything in the first 4 years.

                  In 2002, Murphy discovered that his law had somehow ignored our police
                  department for 4 years and he had some catching up to do. Then it hit the
                  fan.

                  1. A police officer and her Trooper boyfriend were vacationing in Florida.
                  Their motel room was burgled while they were at the beach. Her gun, badge
                  and $1,500 was stolen. When they reported it to the clerk they discovered
                  that the burglars had gone to the motel front desk saying, "I lost my key to
                  room xxx", and the clerk gave them another key to room xxx without asking
                  for ID. Local police did little more than write a report. Our officer
                  requested representation through PPL. She wanted to sue the motel. PPL
                  offered only a pittance of a percentage discount on an attorney of PPL's
                  choice and they would write a letter to the motel. (She never received
                  restitution).

                  2. A CID Sergeant and her subordinates were out on the town one night. They
                  had just enough alcohol to cause a very loud discussion. They created a
                  scene in the bar and the sheriff's office was called. She was fired. It
                  was extreme disciplinary action for an off duty occurrence. She called PPL.
                  She was denied representation for the disciplinary action - she was off duty
                  and alcohol was involved. (She remains fired).

                  3. A Major was suspended and demoted for the manner in which he reprimanded
                  a subordinate (it was a poor choice of words). The discipline was extreme.
                  He called PPL. He was denied representation - disciplinary action is not
                  covered. (He retired rather than remain on the job with a 2 rank demotion).


                  After more than 4 years of paying premiums, we had sent them nearly $40,000;
                  AND had not made one request for representation!! PPL didn't give a hoot
                  about helping us out when we needed it and didn't care when we said we
                  wanted to cancel the coverage. "OK, we'll send out the cancellation letters
                  to your members." *Click* [phone goes dead].

                  It's a doggone good thing none of the officers needed representation for a
                  shooting!! (Which, incidentally, happened shortly after we cancelled. A
                  local attorney took the case for $650 - officer cleared).


                  Gerri Edler, LPI
                  Lic# 5922-111704-LA
                  Black Horse Agency LLC
                  PO Box 60279
                  Lafayette, LA 70596
                  Email:gerri@...

                  --
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                  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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