mother delivers head. some comments
- My God, what a case! Unbelievable… Monetary damages should be
assessed at $1,000,000 minimum from each of the primary physicians,
Drs. Bank & Soto.
As to the questions:
1.) Plaintiff's prior history should not be a matter of
prejudice here. (In fact, plaintiff's attorney could I think – and
should – seek to include some specific sort of exclusionary language
in the jury instruction.)
2.) It's impossible to estimate the value sought here; not sure
I can do that.
3.) Is she entitled? As I read this, she is indeed.
4.) Pain & Suffering is almost impossible to gauge here. The
associated trauma – how do you fairly compensate someone for that?
$1,000,000 is a beginning, but even that seems terribly low.
Subject: Re: Mother delivers child's head
> 1) What bias or prejudice will Nicole face for her abortions?Totally depends upon the individual judging - there is no uniform stance
> 2) What is the full monetary value of the life of a 19-20 week oldNothing. It is not a person, it is not of any monetary value (unless you
count some kind of gruesome research).
> 3) Is Nicole is entitled to recover money for her child's death?Not for the death. There may be some criminal charge.
> 4) Is she entitled to recover for her mental pain and suffering?Probaby.
> 5) What amount of money will fairly compensate her for the experienceIs it worth more because the head fell into the toilet as opposed to the car
> after her child died where the doctor pulled the child apart, failed to
> retrieve his head and sent her home to deliver her child's head in the
seat or bed or doctor's office? I don't think so. That's just 'freak' value
for the pubic. She should be entitled to a year off and psychiatric help.
p.s. most important fact. How did the test get misread as the opposite?
p.p.s. how are other women going to find competent obstetricians?
Subject: head delivered
There will be discrimination because of the previous abortions just out of
human nature but these should have no bearing on this specific and particular
She was doing everything within her power to deliver a normal healthy baby.
<<<<<Dr. Soto advised her the fetal
fibronectin test was negative when in fact it was positive>>>
If there is proof of this positive then it should be asked what is the normal
routine to follow with a positive.
I see this as a failure and the failure to examine her at this point furthers
a vaginal examination of Nicole, he felt the legs of her child and without
notice or warning attempted to extract the child from her womb. Dr. Bank
employed such force that he literally tore Brandon's body from his head
delivering only his body leaving his head within her womb. >>>>
Without notice or explanation, this would not be considered normal procedure.
The fact that this doctor lied and left the head within her womb also
endangered her life at this point from toxicity. With these oversights proven
believe she would be entitled to fiscally compensation from such trauma on
An exact figure I am not sure of but for this pregnancy alone, yes.
The abortions don't influence me in this case. I think that not only
should both the doctors lose their licenses, but both should be
imprisoned - isn't "reckless endangerment" a felony? This woman could
I don't know about fetal life, but definitely pain and suffering, and
they should bear all costs of any mental or physical treatment the
poor woman obtains.
Subject: Re: Mother delivers child's head
This is a horrific situation. If all facts are exactly as presented, it also
is one of those cases that might be damaged by the tort reforms being
1) What bias or prejudice will Nicole face for her abortions?
The jury will need to be carefully chosen for this case. I think that
abortions, regardless of the NARAL rhetoric, have always raised eyebrows. People,
women in particular, have fought for the right to have an abortion, but the truth
is that very few women actually want one, or get one. Even "enlightened"
liberal-minded folk who may say so to the contrary, don't like to think of someone
- especially themselves or someone they are close to - having an abortion.
There is a sense of it being a 'dirty little business'. This inherent prejudice
about abortion in general, coupled with the high moral context of recent
years, and I think there will be a problem with this.
In addition, it has been my experience that men and women think of abortion
differently, and both have their biases. Men seem to fall generally into two
camps (I know this is sweeping generalization, however I do believe it has
validity) - those who fault the woman for not giving the man the right to decide if
he wanted the child or not (these men tend to be a bit older, fathers and/or
men who want to be fathers, and strong believers in father's rights - they are
also men who may tend to see the pregnant woman as a vessel for the unborn
child, instead of a fully-functional human being), and those who immediately
equate the "need" for abortion as an indication that the woman is 1) not too
smart if she can't keep herself from getting pregnant; 2) a loose woman who needs
abortions because she's gotten pregnant with the wrong man's child (i.e., not
her husband/boyfriend's); 3) or some combination of the two (usually younger,
under 40, unmarried or divorced, no children, with a negative
view of women generally).
Unless there is a justifiable medical reason for the abortions, the issue may
be the only stumbling block to receiving a favorable judgment.
2) What is the full monetary value of the life of a 19-20 week old
For me, this question is a conundrum. It is impossible for me to put a
monetary value on another's life - child or adult, and personally to do so seems
somehow to cheapen that life. I don't think I'm alone in this feeling. For that
reason, I think that the monetary award needs to soft-pedal the notion that it
is reimbursing Nicole for her dead child. Instead it needs to rather focus on
the genuine pain and suffering (will she be able to have children after this
experience? if no, is the reason physical or emotional?) of Nicole. Anyone,
especially anyone with a child, will understand the horror of the experience,
especially delivering her child's head at home. I can't even imagine the
long-term psychological effects such a nightmare is likely to have.
However, you did ask for a monetary value....assuming that the child was able
to grow up healthy and well, he could potentially have earned several million
dollars in his lifetime. I think that earning potential is the only
consideration that should be made. Anything more simply feels too much like buying a
child, and that's very mercenary.
3) Is Nicole is entitled to recover money for her child's death?
Another touchy question...Is she entitled to be paid for her child? (see
question 2) Is she entitled to receive monetary compensation (one might suggest in
lieu of criminal charges against the doctor who delivered her)? yes
My feeling is that if the recovery is seen as a punishment, since criminal
charges are apparently not going to be filed, then yes, she would definitely be
4) Is she entitled to recover for her mental pain and suffering?
Yes. I don't know what the civil law is regarding "pain and suffering", but
I'm certain that in this case at least emotional pain and suffering could be
proved. This whole experience for her must have been traumatic, but delivering
only a portion of her child at home, would be a major trauma of the kind that
can cause PTSD. Yes, I think she should be awarded a judgment for pain and
5) What amount of money will fairly compensate her for the experience
after her child died where the doctor pulled the child apart, failed to
retrieve his head and sent her home to deliver her child's head in the
I knew this was coming and I dreaded it. A million dollars is not too much
for her personal trauma. Another million (or two) as "punishment" for the two
doctors which at the very least were negligent in both their time, care and
decision-making on this high-risk pregnancy. I would ask for $5 million, and hope
this woman can sleep at night.
P.S. Are criminal charges ever brought against doctor's in a situation such
as this? Are doctor's secure from criminal charges in the practice of their
Subject: Re: head delivered
> <<<<Upon attemptingWe have been given this statement in a vacuum. We don't know what DrB was
> a vaginal examination of Nicole, he felt the legs of her child and without
> notice or warning attempted to extract the child from her womb. Dr. Bank
> employed such force that he literally tore Brandon's body from his head
> delivering only his body leaving his head within her womb. >>>>
thinking. He could have assumed that the fetus was dead (was it?) and was
to deliver her quickly (which is a safety issue). Note: if the fetus was dead
or fatally compromised, isn't it now illegal to reduce the cranium to deliver
There are so many breeches of standards in this case (if the information
provided is correct) that I barely know where to begin. Nicole's attorney should
add medical malpractice and negligence to the list. Based on what was given, I
have no doubt there were problems with the nursing staff, as well. This was a
big teaching hospital with lots of staff at many levels of education and
experience, right??? The insurance companies should just get together and start
--"NICOLE"-- is an extremely complex case, which I spent
several hours thing about, and it forced me to go back 40 years to my
obstetrics rotation. Based
on what you wrote, this is a nightmare in obstetrics. The question of
liability depends on the
fiduciary relationship between the doctors, with Dr Gold not having any
liability, Dr Soto with
mayvbe little liability, and Dr Bank liable for much, and probably criminal
charges too -- for
falsifying a medical record. Fetal death per se, is not compensible in all
However, This case is still big bucks-- big bucks
This is a complicated case; my analysis is below (in blue indented type)
Separate cases can be brought against Drs Soto (a minor contributor) and Dr
Banks, whose conduct may be criminal as well as civil—which it most certainly
was. Rare has such incompetence been the cause of such horrible effects in
medicine. Mistakes do happen, and some are expected in tough cases , and are
non-compensable (in my opinion); This is a true patient’s nightmare.
Of course, other factors, not presented, may void all or some of what
follows. I have not seen the entire record, so what follows is without any discovery
at all, except with what you wrote.
Nicole became pregnant with her 8th pregnancy.
How old is she? How old was she at her first pregnancy? What is the spacing
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
sounds like Nicole has a very good malpractice suit, not only against Dr.
Soto but everyone involved in her pregnancy including the Hospital Dr. Soto
works for. As far as the bias against Nicole for prior abortions, with a
good attorney he/she should be able to keep that out of court as
Did the fibroid tumors cause or have any thing to do with her
misscarriages?. I don't know what state this occured in, but the state of
recently changed the law and placed a $250.000 cap on wrongful death suits. I
know you say a video tape and photographs were taken, but what happened to
baby's head after it was delivered in the toilet? I believe this is a key
piece of evidence of shown to a jury. I hope Nicole gets every dollar she
deserves, however she will need extensive mental and physical treatment. I
was able to help.
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