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RE: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??

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  • Vicki Siedow
    Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are nothing but a collection of links you could get with Google. Also, many of those locate
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 3, 2005
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      Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are nothing
      but a collection of links you could get with Google. Also, many of those
      "locate anyone for $49.95" outfits just give you a surname search, leaving
      you with a long list of people with the same or similar name, all of which
      you must then contact to try to find your person. I have a lot of people
      come to me after wasting money on them. Let us know what you're trying to
      do, without sending any personal identifiers to the list, and we can advise
      you. We need to know what information you have, what you need to know, and
      what your reason is.


      Vicki Siedow
      Siedow & Associates Investigations
      & Custom Legal Support Services
      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
      La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
      818-242-0130
      800-448-6431
      818-688-3295 fax
      Siedow@...
      http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
      CA Lic. PI #22852
      Need economical legal help?
      http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Rebecca [mailto:weebecci@...]
      Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 1:02 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??




      Is any of this software really worth buying?
      Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it all a hoax..
      Thx
      Becca








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    • John L. Fry
      ... Becca, Simply put, no! Oh it is not a hoax, I guess you can say it does provide a sort of online directory of sources, but if you can use Google you ll
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 3, 2005
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        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca" <weebecci@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Is any of this software really worth buying?
        > Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it all
        > a hoax..
        > Thx
        > Becca

        Becca,
        Simply put, no! Oh it is not a hoax, I guess you can say it does
        provide a sort of online directory of sources, but if you can use
        Google you'll find most of that information for free.

        John Fry
        J. L. FRY RESEARCH & INVESTIGATIONS
        1001 E. WT Harris Blvd.
        Suite P-233
        Charlotte, NC 28213
      • Jim Parker
        In addition to what
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 3, 2005
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          <<< Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are
          nothing but a collection of links you could get with Google. >>>

          In addition to what Vicki said, you should also note that the advertising
          for these products is often wildly misleading.

          Claims that it will teach you how to get "FBI Files" and "Credit Reports"
          would lead people of average intelligence to believe that you can use this
          software to get these types of reports on "Anyone". The truth is (as you'll
          learn while reading the smaller print) is that it will only show you how to
          get YOUR FBI File and YOUR Credit Report, both of which can be obtained very
          easily by simply writing to the FBI and the Credit Bureaus.

          As Vicki said - Definitely a rip off!

          Jim

          =================

          JIM PARKER - Chief Investigator
          Email Tracing & Internet Fraud Specialist.
          Axis Investigative Services, Inc. (FL)
          Web: http://www.FloridaDetectives.com
          Email: Jim@...
          Florida License #: A-2000163

          Director / Team Member of MissingKIN
          "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
          Web: http://www.MissingKIN.com







          -----Original Message-----
          From: Vicki Siedow [mailto:Siedow@...]
          Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:00 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??



          Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are nothing
          but a collection of links you could get with Google. Also, many of those
          "locate anyone for $49.95" outfits just give you a surname search, leaving
          you with a long list of people with the same or similar name, all of which
          you must then contact to try to find your person. I have a lot of people
          come to me after wasting money on them. Let us know what you're trying to
          do, without sending any personal identifiers to the list, and we can advise
          you. We need to know what information you have, what you need to know, and
          what your reason is.


          Vicki Siedow
          Siedow & Associates Investigations
          & Custom Legal Support Services
          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
          La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214 818-242-0130
          800-448-6431
          818-688-3295 fax
          Siedow@...
          http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
          CA Lic. PI #22852
          Need economical legal help?
          http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Rebecca [mailto:weebecci@...]
          Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 1:02 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??




          Is any of this software really worth buying?
          Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it all a hoax..
          Thx
          Becca








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        • michelle-rhodes@sbcglobal.net
          Hello everyone, Though it is rather embarrassing, I have to add my two cents to the issue regarding Net Detective. As Jim says, the advertising for these
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 5, 2005
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            Hello everyone,

            Though it is rather embarrassing, I have to add my two cents to the issue
            regarding Net Detective. As Jim says, the advertising for these products
            is, as he so aptly puts it, "wildly misleading." The use of those words
            helped me to feel a little better about buying the useless junk--thanks for
            that, Jim. It is all a complete rip-off, indeed. I purchased it nearly a
            year ago (wow, does time fly) and have regretted it ever since. Not one
            time did it assist me in finding anyone. I couldn't even locate myself and
            know that I exist and where my residence is! HA!

            In sharing my "easy target" tendencies, it is my hope that anyone else
            considering this purchase will ignore future advertisements for these
            useless programs and save their money.

            By the way, glad that everyone seems to be in a much better mood now that a
            new year is upon us!

            Have a great day!
            Michelle Rhodes



            "Protect Your Legal Rights"
            www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/michellerhodes
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Jim Parker" <Jim@...>
            To: <infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:36 PM
            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??


            >
            >
            > <<< Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are
            > nothing but a collection of links you could get with Google. >>>
            >
            > In addition to what Vicki said, you should also note that the advertising
            > for these products is often wildly misleading.
            >
            > Claims that it will teach you how to get "FBI Files" and "Credit Reports"
            > would lead people of average intelligence to believe that you can use this
            > software to get these types of reports on "Anyone". The truth is (as
            > you'll
            > learn while reading the smaller print) is that it will only show you how
            > to
            > get YOUR FBI File and YOUR Credit Report, both of which can be obtained
            > very
            > easily by simply writing to the FBI and the Credit Bureaus.
            >
            > As Vicki said - Definitely a rip off!
            >
            > Jim
            >
            > =================
            >
            > JIM PARKER - Chief Investigator
            > Email Tracing & Internet Fraud Specialist.
            > Axis Investigative Services, Inc. (FL)
            > Web: http://www.FloridaDetectives.com
            > Email: Jim@...
            > Florida License #: A-2000163
            >
            > Director / Team Member of MissingKIN
            > "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
            > Web: http://www.MissingKIN.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Vicki Siedow [mailto:Siedow@...]
            > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:00 PM
            > To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??
            >
            >
            >
            > Definitely a rip off. Internet Detective, Net Detective, etc. are nothing
            > but a collection of links you could get with Google. Also, many of those
            > "locate anyone for $49.95" outfits just give you a surname search, leaving
            > you with a long list of people with the same or similar name, all of which
            > you must then contact to try to find your person. I have a lot of people
            > come to me after wasting money on them. Let us know what you're trying to
            > do, without sending any personal identifiers to the list, and we can
            > advise
            > you. We need to know what information you have, what you need to know,
            > and
            > what your reason is.
            >
            >
            > Vicki Siedow
            > Siedow & Associates Investigations
            > & Custom Legal Support Services
            > 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
            > La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214 818-242-0130
            > 800-448-6431
            > 818-688-3295 fax
            > Siedow@...
            > http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
            > CA Lic. PI #22852
            > Need economical legal help?
            > http://AreYouProtectedYet.com
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Rebecca [mailto:weebecci@...]
            > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 1:02 PM
            > To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [infoguys-list] Internet detective software??
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Is any of this software really worth buying?
            > Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it all a
            > hoax..
            > Thx
            > Becca
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • willgetthefacts
            I use Net Detective Basic, which has recently undergone a face- change and database update, although it s still a little behind some of the Info Brokers.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 5, 2005
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              I use Net Detective Basic, which has recently undergone a face-
              change and database update, although it's still a little behind some
              of the Info Brokers. Assuming that your subject hasn't moved in the
              past few months, it's usually good enough.

              If you're new to investigations in general, it's a treasure-trove of
              public information sources, and also lists some unlisted phone
              numbers and cellphones (although it doesn't say unlisted or cell in
              the listing.) The listings come from credit reports and other
              documents, although I don't know exactly what those sources are.

              The trick to using this type of service is to remember that some of
              it will be inaccurate, or an outright lie (almost always by the
              listee.) Case in point: I looked up the number for Time &
              Temperature in my hometown, just for kicks. It listed the correct
              company who owned it, like it should. It also listed seven people
              who could be contacted at that number, which is ridiculous.
              Creditors are just gonna have to learn to check source numbers...

              I only know about Net Detective, and it's helped me locate several
              people in the past year. I even took a test-case for a friend, just
              to see how useful it was. Let's just say her boyfriend was married,
              which is what she wanted to know, and leave it at that. "When Wife
              Meets Girlfriend" might make a good (and funny) book... Doubt I'll
              write it, though.

              Some of the Investigation software is a hoax, or at least basically
              useless. What you can do is check with the Better Business Bureau
              and see how they rate before you buy anything. Watch for the number
              of complaints, but keep in mind that if the company has resolved
              them, then it's probably an okay company. Best advice I can give,
              even for TV ads that look legit.

              Danny

              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca" <weebecci@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Is any of this software really worth buying?
              > Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it
              all
              > a hoax..
              > Thx
              > Becca
            • willgetthefacts
              For the most part, I concur. However, Net Detective has given me a few unlisted phone numbers I couldn t find anywhere else, although there are several other
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 5, 2005
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                For the most part, I concur. However, Net Detective has given me a
                few unlisted phone numbers I couldn't find anywhere else, although
                there are several other ways to get them (usually involving the
                movement of little green pieces of paper.)

                Then again, I have found many unlisted numbers through Google,
                Yahoo, etc., and have a pretty good link list of Shadow Search
                Engines available that's sometimes better.

                I only paid for Net Detective Basic, which is lifetime access for
                $30, if memory serves (or at least it was when I paid for it.) It's
                paid for itself several times over in that regard, but is severely
                limited for checking "right-now" information. If you do use this
                type of service, you still may have to do some serious legwork to
                get your info current. It varies a lot from situation to situation.

                As for Information Brokers, check to make sure what you're buying is
                what you want before you do anything. Look over any sample reports
                they offer, and make sure it contains the type of info you seek.
                Where it gets sticky is if the info you want isn't on your purchased
                report -- check the wording of the guarantee. If it doesn't, or if
                they don't have sample reports, look elsewhere, or hire a P.I.

                Danny

                > Becca,
                > Simply put, no! Oh it is not a hoax, I guess you can say it does
                > provide a sort of online directory of sources, but if you can use
                > Google you'll find most of that information for free.
              • lmjohnsonpi@xtremeinet.net
                ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  >
                  >
                  > For the most part, I concur. However, Net Detective has given me a
                  > few unlisted phone numbers I couldn't find anywhere else, although
                  > there are several other ways to get them (usually involving the
                  > movement of little green pieces of paper.)
                  >
                  > Then again, I have found many unlisted numbers through Google,
                  > Yahoo, etc., and have a pretty good link list of Shadow Search
                  > Engines available that's sometimes better.
                  >
                  > I only paid for Net Detective Basic, which is lifetime access for
                  > $30, if memory serves (or at least it was when I paid for it.) It's
                  > paid for itself several times over in that regard, but is severely
                  > limited for checking "right-now" information. If you do use
                  > this
                  > type of service, you still may have to do some serious legwork to
                  > get your info current. It varies a lot from situation to situation.
                  >
                  > As for Information Brokers, check to make sure what you're buying is
                  > what you want before you do anything. Look over any sample reports
                  > they offer, and make sure it contains the type of info you seek.
                  > Where it gets sticky is if the info you want isn't on your purchased
                  > report -- check the wording of the guarantee. If it doesn't, or if
                  > they don't have sample reports, look elsewhere, or hire a P.I.
                  >
                  > Danny
                  >
                  > > Becca,
                  > > Simply put, no! Oh it is not a hoax, I guess you can say it does
                  > > provide a sort of online directory of sources, but if you can use
                  > > Google you'll find most of that information for free.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To subscribe, send an empty message to
                  > infoguys-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Vicki Siedow
                  Are you out of your mind? It s schlock. You are not sporting a sig block, so in spite of the email addy (if I have time later I ll check) you are probably
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Are you out of your mind? It's schlock. You are not sporting a sig block,
                    so in spite of the email addy (if I have time later I'll check) you are
                    probably not a PI. If you are you're pretty uninformed. NetDetective has
                    more chargebacks than Miss Cleo. These people can Google more info than
                    that program. Are you on the NetDetective payroll?

                    Look, I help a lot of people, but GOOD GRIEF!


                    Vicki Siedow
                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                    & Custom Legal Support Services
                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                    La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                    818-242-0130
                    800-448-6431
                    818-688-3295 fax
                    Siedow@...
                    http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                    CA Lic. PI #22852
                    Need economical legal help?
                    http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: willgetthefacts [mailto:willgetthefacts@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:48 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??




                    I use Net Detective Basic, which has recently undergone a face- change and
                    database update, although it's still a little behind some of the Info
                    Brokers. Assuming that your subject hasn't moved in the past few months,
                    it's usually good enough.

                    If you're new to investigations in general, it's a treasure-trove of public
                    information sources, and also lists some unlisted phone numbers and
                    cellphones (although it doesn't say unlisted or cell in the listing.) The
                    listings come from credit reports and other documents, although I don't know
                    exactly what those sources are.

                    The trick to using this type of service is to remember that some of it will
                    be inaccurate, or an outright lie (almost always by the
                    listee.) Case in point: I looked up the number for Time & Temperature in my
                    hometown, just for kicks. It listed the correct company who owned it, like
                    it should. It also listed seven people who could be contacted at that
                    number, which is ridiculous.
                    Creditors are just gonna have to learn to check source numbers...

                    I only know about Net Detective, and it's helped me locate several people in
                    the past year. I even took a test-case for a friend, just to see how useful
                    it was. Let's just say her boyfriend was married, which is what she wanted
                    to know, and leave it at that. "When Wife Meets Girlfriend" might make a
                    good (and funny) book... Doubt I'll write it, though.

                    Some of the Investigation software is a hoax, or at least basically useless.
                    What you can do is check with the Better Business Bureau and see how they
                    rate before you buy anything. Watch for the number of complaints, but keep
                    in mind that if the company has resolved them, then it's probably an okay
                    company. Best advice I can give, even for TV ads that look legit.

                    Danny

                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca" <weebecci@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Is any of this software really worth buying?
                    > Can anyone tell e if it has actually helped any of you or is it
                    all
                    > a hoax..
                    > Thx
                    > Becca








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                  • Danny Stone
                    Vicki Siedow wrote: Are you out of your mind? It s schlock. You are not sporting a sig block, so in spite of the email addy (if I have
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...> wrote: Are you out of your mind? It's schlock. You are not sporting a sig block,
                      so in spite of the email addy (if I have time later I'll check) you are
                      probably not a PI. If you are you're pretty uninformed. NetDetective has
                      more chargebacks than Miss Cleo. These people can Google more info than
                      that program. Are you on the NetDetective payroll?

                      Look, I help a lot of people, but GOOD GRIEF!

                      Vicki:

                      I gave MY experience with it. No more, no less. JUST the facts as I have experienced them. For the record, I don't know what "program" you're talking about. I go to their Internet site, log in, look up what I want to know. I don't know a danged thing about any "program"; it's all web-based. It's not perfect, but how many times have you bought useless information from an Info Broker? Most of the info in those databases are based on what the Subject submitted, and unless the creditor (or whoever) does a real background check, it's no more useful, although the potential misinformation may be more up-to-date.

                      I don't pay them for their monthly service; I don't want a constant bill that is probably not much more accurate than what they have on file in the Basic database. Mine was a one-time fee, that lasts until I die. I don't know if they still offer that program, but they are required by my contract to give me access to the Basic database. It's that simple.

                      I also use Google, Yahoo, Lycos, and several Shadow Search Engines that can contain better information. I presume from your response that you didn't read my entire posting. I never said I RECOMMENDED NetDectective; I said if you're going to use it, it was going to contain inaccurate information. I use it first to avoid potentially wasteful time and money to an info house -- since it's already paid for, why not use it?

                      I am not a P.I.; I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a Research Specialist, to include finding skips. I bought that program 2-years ago to suppliment my other information-finding tools. It's not great, but it's not outright horrible either. Compared to some of the scams I've looked over, it's legit. I have no connection to that company, other than my access to their database.

                      Rebecca did not specifiy that she wanted answers ONLY from P.I.s -- she wanted to know people's experience with it, and I gave mine. For me, usually, it's fine. I know that it contains a lot of it is useless info. And in direct answer to her original question, no, not all of the detective "software" is a hoax. Some of NetDetective's info is outdated, but so are a lot of alleged follow-up reports creditiors submit.

                      Danny Stone
                      Research Specialist



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                    • Vicki Siedow
                      OK, if you re comparing it to Google, Lycos, etc., then it s probably about the same. The point is that these people can get the information from a search
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, if you're comparing it to Google, Lycos, etc., then it's probably about
                        the same. The point is that these people can get the information from a
                        search engine without paying for NetDetective. You said originally that it
                        was better than some databases, and I thought that you were referring to
                        professional investigative databases such as IRB, Merlin, Tracers
                        Information, etc. These databases require licensure and screening, and have
                        much more accurate information than that of the search engines. The stuff
                        you're getting on the sites it sounds like you're visiting actually doesn't
                        come from credit records, that would not be legal. It's possible that it
                        could come from mailing lists, for instance. The information we get on the
                        professional databases comes from much more than just public records. It
                        also takes a professional researcher such as yourself to make the best use
                        of any set of data. Some people might have a knock at it, but unless you
                        spend hours every day for years, and know where and how to look, you won't
                        get the best possible results.


                        Vicki Siedow
                        Siedow & Associates Investigations
                        & Custom Legal Support Services
                        2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                        La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                        818-242-0130
                        800-448-6431
                        818-688-3295 fax
                        Siedow@...
                        http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                        CA Lic. PI #22852
                        Need economical legal help?
                        http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Danny Stone [mailto:willgetthefacts@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:33 AM
                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??



                        Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...> wrote: Are you out of your mind? It's
                        schlock. You are not sporting a sig block, so in spite of the email addy (if
                        I have time later I'll check) you are probably not a PI. If you are you're
                        pretty uninformed. NetDetective has more chargebacks than Miss Cleo. These
                        people can Google more info than that program. Are you on the NetDetective
                        payroll?

                        Look, I help a lot of people, but GOOD GRIEF!

                        Vicki:

                        I gave MY experience with it. No more, no less. JUST the facts as I have
                        experienced them. For the record, I don't know what "program" you're
                        talking about. I go to their Internet site, log in, look up what I want to
                        know. I don't know a danged thing about any "program"; it's all web-based.
                        It's not perfect, but how many times have you bought useless information
                        from an Info Broker? Most of the info in those databases are based on what
                        the Subject submitted, and unless the creditor (or whoever) does a real
                        background check, it's no more useful, although the potential misinformation
                        may be more up-to-date.

                        I don't pay them for their monthly service; I don't want a constant bill
                        that is probably not much more accurate than what they have on file in the
                        Basic database. Mine was a one-time fee, that lasts until I die. I don't
                        know if they still offer that program, but they are required by my contract
                        to give me access to the Basic database. It's that simple.

                        I also use Google, Yahoo, Lycos, and several Shadow Search Engines that can
                        contain better information. I presume from your response that you didn't
                        read my entire posting. I never said I RECOMMENDED NetDectective; I said if
                        you're going to use it, it was going to contain inaccurate information. I
                        use it first to avoid potentially wasteful time and money to an info house
                        -- since it's already paid for, why not use it?

                        I am not a P.I.; I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a
                        Research Specialist, to include finding skips. I bought that program
                        2-years ago to suppliment my other information-finding tools. It's not
                        great, but it's not outright horrible either. Compared to some of the scams
                        I've looked over, it's legit. I have no connection to that company, other
                        than my access to their database.

                        Rebecca did not specifiy that she wanted answers ONLY from P.I.s -- she
                        wanted to know people's experience with it, and I gave mine. For me,
                        usually, it's fine. I know that it contains a lot of it is useless info.
                        And in direct answer to her original question, no, not all of the detective
                        "software" is a hoax. Some of NetDetective's info is outdated, but so are a
                        lot of alleged follow-up reports creditiors submit.

                        Danny Stone
                        Research Specialist



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                      • Jim Parker
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          <<<< how many times have you bought useless information from an Info
                          Broker? Most of the info in those databases are based on what the Subject
                          submitted >>>>


                          Danny,

                          I don't know what "databases" you're referring to, but the ones that most of
                          us use (for licensed investigators/law enforcement, etc. only) are NOT
                          compiled from information that the subject submits themselves.

                          From what I understand, Net Detective get their information from places like
                          InfoSpace, SwithBoard and such (mostly worthless). Our databases get their
                          information mainly from credit headers, DMV records, property records, and
                          criminal/civil court records. While not infallible, they are infinitely
                          more accurate and up-to-date.

                          Sorry, but comparing Net Detective with professional databases is like
                          comparing a Yugo with a Mercedes (although perhaps not a Rolls Royce).

                          You'll also find that the databases we use don't have any need to promote
                          their products through blatant deception and outright lies like Net
                          Detective has to, and there's a good reason for that. The reason being,
                          that the database owners market their products to professionals (LPI/LEO)
                          and are smart enough to know that they can't bullshit people who detect
                          bullshit for a living. Net Detective, on the other hand, preys on the
                          gullible and ill-informed.

                          Imagine if our database owners, like Net Detective does, claimed that their
                          product was "endorsed by the National Association of Independent Private
                          Investigators (NAIPI)". Most of us who have been in this business for any
                          length of time know that no such organization even exists (except in the
                          minds of the Net Detective people). Our databases would be out of business
                          in a week.

                          Throwing "National Association of Independent Private Investigators" into
                          Google, you would expect to hit upon their web site relatively quickly, or
                          even find a few private investigators that are members of such a prestige
                          organization, but you don't. All you get is ad after ad after ad for Net
                          Detective.

                          http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22national+association+of+independ
                          ent+private+investigators%22


                          <<< I gave MY experience with it. >>>

                          Understandable; when you have nothing of value to compare it to, it might
                          seem like a wonderful tool.


                          <<< I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a Research
                          Specialist >>>

                          Well here... study and research this:

                          http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtyp
                          e=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=net+detective


                          Jim

                          =================

                          JIM PARKER - Chief Investigator
                          Email Tracing & Internet Fraud Specialist.
                          Axis Investigative Services, Inc. (FL)
                          Web: http://www.FloridaDetectives.com
                          Email: Jim@...
                          Florida License #: A-2000163

                          Director / Team Member of MissingKIN
                          "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
                          Web: http://www.MissingKIN.com


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                          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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                        • Vicki Siedow
                          LOL, very eloquently stated, as usual. Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Custom Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            LOL, very eloquently stated, as usual. <G>


                            Vicki Siedow
                            Siedow & Associates Investigations
                            & Custom Legal Support Services
                            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                            La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                            818-242-0130
                            800-448-6431
                            818-688-3295 fax
                            Siedow@...
                            http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                            CA Lic. PI #22852
                            Need economical legal help?
                            http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Jim Parker [mailto:Jim@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:14 AM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??


                            <<< I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a Research
                            Specialist >>>

                            Well here... study and research this:

                            http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtyp
                            e=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=net+detective


                            Jim

                            =================

                            JIM PARKER - Chief Investigator
                            Email Tracing & Internet Fraud Specialist.
                            Axis Investigative Services, Inc. (FL)
                            Web: http://www.FloridaDetectives.com
                            Email: Jim@...
                            Florida License #: A-2000163

                            Director / Team Member of MissingKIN
                            "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
                            Web: http://www.MissingKIN.com

                            --
                            No virus found in this outgoing message.
                            Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                            Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
                          • michelle-rhodes@sbcglobal.net
                            Once again, I am risking ridicule and admonishment by responding to messages posted on this list--but I just can t seem to help myself. As one of the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Once again, I am risking ridicule and admonishment by responding to messages
                              posted on this list--but I just can't seem to help myself.

                              As one of the admittedly "gullible and ill-informed" who has paid for the
                              useless Net Detective junk, I loved Jim's comment and would just like to
                              thank him. Really, I am not being a smart-aleck by any means, being able to
                              laugh at myself is a skill I learned long ago. Thank you, Jim, because this
                              has been a really crappy few days in my world and I do so appreciate the
                              chance to laugh--even if it is at my own expense!

                              Michelle Rhodes
                              Not a PI, not a lawyer, not even sure where my shoes are half the time

                              "Protect Your Legal Rights"
                              www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/michellerhodes
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Jim Parker" <Jim@...>
                              To: <infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:13 PM
                              Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??


                              >
                              >
                              > <<<< how many times have you bought useless information from an Info
                              > Broker? Most of the info in those databases are based on what the Subject
                              > submitted >>>>
                              >
                              >
                              > Danny,
                              >
                              > I don't know what "databases" you're referring to, but the ones that most
                              > of
                              > us use (for licensed investigators/law enforcement, etc. only) are NOT
                              > compiled from information that the subject submits themselves.
                              >
                              > From what I understand, Net Detective get their information from places
                              > like
                              > InfoSpace, SwithBoard and such (mostly worthless). Our databases get
                              > their
                              > information mainly from credit headers, DMV records, property records, and
                              > criminal/civil court records. While not infallible, they are infinitely
                              > more accurate and up-to-date.
                              >
                              > Sorry, but comparing Net Detective with professional databases is like
                              > comparing a Yugo with a Mercedes (although perhaps not a Rolls Royce).
                              >
                              > You'll also find that the databases we use don't have any need to promote
                              > their products through blatant deception and outright lies like Net
                              > Detective has to, and there's a good reason for that. The reason being,
                              > that the database owners market their products to professionals (LPI/LEO)
                              > and are smart enough to know that they can't bullshit people who detect
                              > bullshit for a living. Net Detective, on the other hand, preys on the
                              > gullible and ill-informed.
                              >
                              > Imagine if our database owners, like Net Detective does, claimed that
                              > their
                              > product was "endorsed by the National Association of Independent Private
                              > Investigators (NAIPI)". Most of us who have been in this business for any
                              > length of time know that no such organization even exists (except in the
                              > minds of the Net Detective people). Our databases would be out of
                              > business
                              > in a week.
                              >
                              > Throwing "National Association of Independent Private Investigators" into
                              > Google, you would expect to hit upon their web site relatively quickly, or
                              > even find a few private investigators that are members of such a prestige
                              > organization, but you don't. All you get is ad after ad after ad for Net
                              > Detective.
                              >
                              > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22national+association+of+independ
                              > ent+private+investigators%22
                              >
                              >
                              > <<< I gave MY experience with it. >>>
                              >
                              > Understandable; when you have nothing of value to compare it to, it might
                              > seem like a wonderful tool.
                              >
                              >
                              > <<< I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a Research
                              > Specialist >>>
                              >
                              > Well here... study and research this:
                              >
                              > http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtyp
                              > e=0&submit2=Search%21&q5=net+detective
                              >
                              >
                              > Jim
                              >
                              > =================
                              >
                              > JIM PARKER - Chief Investigator
                              > Email Tracing & Internet Fraud Specialist.
                              > Axis Investigative Services, Inc. (FL)
                              > Web: http://www.FloridaDetectives.com
                              > Email: Jim@...
                              > Florida License #: A-2000163
                              >
                              > Director / Team Member of MissingKIN
                              > "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
                              > Web: http://www.MissingKIN.com
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                              > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > <p><hr></p>
                              > To subscribe, send an empty message to <a
                              > href="mailto:infoguys-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com">infoguys-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br/>
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                              > href="mailto:infoguys-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">infoguys-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br/>
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Alfonso V Pelote
                              I cancelled my order for Net Detective, base on what I have heard from you guys, and have experienced. I tried to look up an individual that I knew had a
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 6, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I cancelled my order for Net Detective, base on what I have heard from you guys, and have experienced.

                                I tried to look up an individual that I knew had a criminal record and who was just arrested in December.
                                They had no record of this on their system.
                                I cannot relay on no information or old, outdated information to get clients.
                                Bye< Bye Net Detective.

                                Thanks to the group for this info!

                                Alfonso V. Pelote, Case Examiner
                                Gold Dollar Investigations.


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Vicki Siedow<mailto:Siedow@...>
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com<mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:10 PM
                                Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??




                                OK, if you're comparing it to Google, Lycos, etc., then it's probably about
                                the same. The point is that these people can get the information from a
                                search engine without paying for NetDetective. You said originally that it
                                was better than some databases, and I thought that you were referring to
                                professional investigative databases such as IRB, Merlin, Tracers
                                Information, etc. These databases require licensure and screening, and have
                                much more accurate information than that of the search engines. The stuff
                                you're getting on the sites it sounds like you're visiting actually doesn't
                                come from credit records, that would not be legal. It's possible that it
                                could come from mailing lists, for instance. The information we get on the
                                professional databases comes from much more than just public records. It
                                also takes a professional researcher such as yourself to make the best use
                                of any set of data. Some people might have a knock at it, but unless you
                                spend hours every day for years, and know where and how to look, you won't
                                get the best possible results.


                                Vicki Siedow
                                Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                & Custom Legal Support Services
                                2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                                818-242-0130
                                800-448-6431
                                818-688-3295 fax
                                Siedow@...<mailto:Siedow@...>
                                http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com<http://siedow.lawandorder.com/>
                                CA Lic. PI #22852
                                Need economical legal help?
                                http://AreYouProtectedYet.com<http://areyouprotectedyet.com/>


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Danny Stone [mailto:willgetthefacts@...]
                                Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:33 AM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com<mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??



                                Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...<mailto:Siedow@...>> wrote: Are you out of your mind? It's
                                schlock. You are not sporting a sig block, so in spite of the email addy (if
                                I have time later I'll check) you are probably not a PI. If you are you're
                                pretty uninformed. NetDetective has more chargebacks than Miss Cleo. These
                                people can Google more info than that program. Are you on the NetDetective
                                payroll?

                                Look, I help a lot of people, but GOOD GRIEF!

                                Vicki:

                                I gave MY experience with it. No more, no less. JUST the facts as I have
                                experienced them. For the record, I don't know what "program" you're
                                talking about. I go to their Internet site, log in, look up what I want to
                                know. I don't know a danged thing about any "program"; it's all web-based.
                                It's not perfect, but how many times have you bought useless information
                                from an Info Broker? Most of the info in those databases are based on what
                                the Subject submitted, and unless the creditor (or whoever) does a real
                                background check, it's no more useful, although the potential misinformation
                                may be more up-to-date.

                                I don't pay them for their monthly service; I don't want a constant bill
                                that is probably not much more accurate than what they have on file in the
                                Basic database. Mine was a one-time fee, that lasts until I die. I don't
                                know if they still offer that program, but they are required by my contract
                                to give me access to the Basic database. It's that simple.

                                I also use Google, Yahoo, Lycos, and several Shadow Search Engines that can
                                contain better information. I presume from your response that you didn't
                                read my entire posting. I never said I RECOMMENDED NetDectective; I said if
                                you're going to use it, it was going to contain inaccurate information. I
                                use it first to avoid potentially wasteful time and money to an info house
                                -- since it's already paid for, why not use it?

                                I am not a P.I.; I am a P.I. student with over 20 years experience as a
                                Research Specialist, to include finding skips. I bought that program
                                2-years ago to suppliment my other information-finding tools. It's not
                                great, but it's not outright horrible either. Compared to some of the scams
                                I've looked over, it's legit. I have no connection to that company, other
                                than my access to their database.

                                Rebecca did not specifiy that she wanted answers ONLY from P.I.s -- she
                                wanted to know people's experience with it, and I gave mine. For me,
                                usually, it's fine. I know that it contains a lot of it is useless info.
                                And in direct answer to her original question, no, not all of the detective
                                "software" is a hoax. Some of NetDetective's info is outdated, but so are a
                                lot of alleged follow-up reports creditiors submit.

                                Danny Stone
                                Research Specialist



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                              • Danny Stone
                                Vicki & Jim: Okay, I will admit ignorance of the fraud counts against this company. I signed up for it on the instruction on an old client; it was one of the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                  Vicki & Jim:

                                  Okay, I will admit ignorance of the fraud counts against this company. I signed up for it on the instruction on an old client; it was one of the conditions for that assignment. Not a big deal -- I billed him for it as well, and he paid it. It was $30, and I didn't really think much about it at the time.

                                  I checked out that fraud site you sent me to, Jim; thanks for the link. I also checked with the Better Business Bureau, but the National site had zero information available (which could just be that it's not able to connect to the appropriate database for some reason.) Then I checked the BBB local to Deland, FL, and found the following:


                                  Customer Experience

                                  Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to a pattern of complaints. Although the company resolves the complaints, it has failed to correct the underlying reason for the complaints. Complaints are concerning the performance of the software, specifically stating the software, Net Detective, does not perform as represented. All complaints request a refund. There is no indication in the file, the company has taken steps to eliminate the pattern of complaints. In a letter addressed to the Bureau dated October 18, 2000, the company stated they " maintain a 100% satisfaction guarantee and we refund any and all money to any customer that expresses dissatisfaction with any product."

                                  Assuming they are granting the refunds, then local authorities up generally will leave them alone. Otherwise, they would have been shut down.

                                  > Understandable; when you have nothing of value to compare it to, it might seem like a wonderful tool.

                                  Actually, I do. In the State of Texas, in order to gain access to law enforcement tools as the ones you mentioned, you have to be a licensed attorney, bank, credit agency, law enforcement agent (police, P.I., etc.), or the government. (There may be others. Also understand this was back in 1994 to 1997, so that could have changed.) Just about any company that deals with collection can get direct access to credit reports and DMV lookups.

                                  Although I (obviously) wasn't qualified at the time to get these myself, the company I worked for could. On hard-to-find skips, we'd send them to Corporate, and they'd FAX back a lot more detailed reports about that skip than we could have ever found on our own. I don't know the source they used for these reports, but I do know that they tended to be very accurate. I also know that several P.I.s worked for the company.

                                  These days, I sub-contract out to agencies, banks, etc., and all I do is compile research and verification of their records. If I need a credit report or whatever, I have them run it, and send me addresses and phone numbers from it. I usually start with Net Detective, mostly to save expenses. Yes, there are better sources of information, and yes, their ads are misleading. But with the other tools I have on-hand, plus Net Detective, I only need a credit report (or other) 20% of the time. It saves my client money, so why not?

                                  I don't do any of the actual collections or follow-ups. (That will be changing in the next few months, however.) I just compile facts and figures. Nothing more, nothing less.

                                  At the moment, it would be a moot point to try to get my money back. I didn't really pay for it, so why bother with the time and expense? Just exactly what is my time worth? Certainly more than the $30 I didn't pay...

                                  Danny Stone
                                  Research Specialist

                                  Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...> wrote:
                                  LOL, very eloquently stated, as usual.


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                                • Vicki Siedow
                                  I understand your explanation. Unfortunately you comment at the end, At the moment, it would be a moot point to try to get my money back. I didn t really
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                    I understand your explanation. Unfortunately you comment at the end, "At
                                    the moment, it would be a moot point to try to get my money back. I didn't
                                    really pay for it, so why bother with the time and expense? Just exactly
                                    what is my time worth? Certainly more than the $30 I didn't pay..." is
                                    exactly why NetDetective can continue to mislead the public. Since they
                                    refund those who take the time to bother the law isn't bothering to go after
                                    them. And since most people share your viewpoint, probably only a very
                                    small percentage of dissatisfied customers take the time to try to get a
                                    refund.


                                    Vicki Siedow
                                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                    & Custom Legal Support Services
                                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                    La Crescenta (Los Angeles area), CA 91214
                                    818-242-0130
                                    800-448-6431
                                    818-688-3295 fax
                                    Siedow@...
                                    http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                                    CA Lic. PI #22852
                                    Need economical legal help?
                                    http://AreYouProtectedYet.com


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Danny Stone [mailto:willgetthefacts@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:57 AM
                                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Internet detective software??



                                    Vicki & Jim:

                                    Okay, I will admit ignorance of the fraud counts against this company. I
                                    signed up for it on the instruction on an old client; it was one of the
                                    conditions for that assignment. Not a big deal -- I billed him for it as
                                    well, and he paid it. It was $30, and I didn't really think much about it
                                    at the time.

                                    I checked out that fraud site you sent me to, Jim; thanks for the link. I
                                    also checked with the Better Business Bureau, but the National site had zero
                                    information available (which could just be that it's not able to connect to
                                    the appropriate database for some reason.) Then I checked the BBB local to
                                    Deland, FL, and found the following:


                                    Customer Experience

                                    Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the
                                    Bureau due to a pattern of complaints. Although the company resolves the
                                    complaints, it has failed to correct the underlying reason for the
                                    complaints. Complaints are concerning the performance of the software,
                                    specifically stating the software, Net Detective, does not perform as
                                    represented. All complaints request a refund. There is no indication in the
                                    file, the company has taken steps to eliminate the pattern of complaints. In
                                    a letter addressed to the Bureau dated October 18, 2000, the company stated
                                    they " maintain a 100% satisfaction guarantee and we refund any and all
                                    money to any customer that expresses dissatisfaction with any product."

                                    Assuming they are granting the refunds, then local authorities up generally
                                    will leave them alone. Otherwise, they would have been shut down.

                                    > Understandable; when you have nothing of value to compare it to, it might
                                    seem like a wonderful tool.

                                    Actually, I do. In the State of Texas, in order to gain access to law
                                    enforcement tools as the ones you mentioned, you have to be a licensed
                                    attorney, bank, credit agency, law enforcement agent (police, P.I., etc.),
                                    or the government. (There may be others. Also understand this was back in
                                    1994 to 1997, so that could have changed.) Just about any company that
                                    deals with collection can get direct access to credit reports and DMV
                                    lookups.

                                    Although I (obviously) wasn't qualified at the time to get these myself, the
                                    company I worked for could. On hard-to-find skips, we'd send them to
                                    Corporate, and they'd FAX back a lot more detailed reports about that skip
                                    than we could have ever found on our own. I don't know the source they used
                                    for these reports, but I do know that they tended to be very accurate. I
                                    also know that several P.I.s worked for the company.

                                    These days, I sub-contract out to agencies, banks, etc., and all I do is
                                    compile research and verification of their records. If I need a credit
                                    report or whatever, I have them run it, and send me addresses and phone
                                    numbers from it. I usually start with Net Detective, mostly to save
                                    expenses. Yes, there are better sources of information, and yes, their ads
                                    are misleading. But with the other tools I have on-hand, plus Net
                                    Detective, I only need a credit report (or other) 20% of the time. It saves
                                    my client money, so why not?

                                    I don't do any of the actual collections or follow-ups. (That will be
                                    changing in the next few months, however.) I just compile facts and
                                    figures. Nothing more, nothing less.

                                    At the moment, it would be a moot point to try to get my money back. I
                                    didn't really pay for it, so why bother with the time and expense? Just
                                    exactly what is my time worth? Certainly more than the $30 I didn't pay...

                                    Danny Stone
                                    Research Specialist

                                    Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...> wrote:
                                    LOL, very eloquently stated, as usual.



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                                  • Danny Stone
                                    Vicki: I signed up two-years ago, and I m not going to spend hours (and at least some money) chasing after thirty bucks. If it costs me more to get the refund
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 8, 2005
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                                      Vicki:

                                      I signed up two-years ago, and I'm not going to spend hours (and at least some money) chasing after thirty bucks. If it costs me more to get the refund than I spent (other than the principle behind it), what exactly do I gain? Even if I only spend two-hours on it, and no money, that's still $50 I just let go of.

                                      I do agree with what you said, but for me (and maybe only me), it suits my purposes well enough. My client insisted, and agreed to pay for it, so really, in my book, it was a freebie -- why not use it? Still, I do NOT recommend anyone else to, until (IF AND WHEN) Harris changes their advertising policies. An honest approach, properly worded without misrepresentation, would actually bring in more sales for them. If they just pushed it in genealogy circles, and made sure the customer KNEW that the information could be outdated, there would still be a lot of people that signed up, especially if it was a one-time expense. $30 to help find long-lost relatives is a good deal. (They'd have to change the name at this point; I don't think they can recover their reputation presently.)

                                      In any event, these are my thoughts on the subject. They only apply to me (and anyone else who already has it who has no real reason to get rid of it.) Yes, it's misrepresentation. No, I'm not dropping it -- I, personally, find it useful for some types of research.

                                      Danny Stone
                                      Research Specialist


                                      Vicki Siedow <Siedow@...> wrote:
                                      And since most people share your viewpoint, probably only a very
                                      small percentage of dissatisfied customers take the time to try to get a
                                      refund.

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