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could Mr. Scott be saved?

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  • Jurydoctor@aol.com
    Mr. S. was married and had a 10 year daughter when he died. On 3-22-98 Mr. Scott, a 33 year old, 245 pound security guard who was 5 6 went to the emergency
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 1, 2004
      Mr. S. was married and had a 10 year daughter when he died.
      On 3-22-98 Mr. Scott, a 33 year old, 245 pound security guard who was 5'6
      went to the emergency room at Sands Hospital complaining of upper abdominal
      pain and nausea.


      The hospital did an ultrasound of his abdomen and told him he was fine and
      was given pepcid.

      Several weeks later, Mr. S went back to the hospital this time with
      terrible chest pains, and shortness of breath. Several tests were done at the
      hospital to determine whether Mr. S was having a heart attack.

      The tests, including an x-ray, stress test, EKG, cardiac enzymes all came
      back normal. An echocardiogram was not done and the cardiologist never asked
      the
      patient to follow up with him. After being discharged Mr. S still felt
      horrible. He continued to have chest pain and shortness of breath.Mr. S
      called his
      primary care physician(PCP) who did not call back the cardiologist but
      instead
      called a gastroenteroligist.


      Mr. S had told PCP what had happened at Sands hospital and advised him of his
      complaints. The PCP believed that Mr. S had a complete cardiology work-up at
      Sands Hospital but did not have the records at the time of making the
      referral to the gastroenterologist

      .The gastro was told by PCP that a complete cardiac work up was done at
      Sandler. The gastro performed tests and found that Mr. S did have some acid
      refux
      and a small hernia but it could not be the cause of all Mr. S's complaints.
      Several months went by and now Mr. S was short of breath, fatigued, loss of
      balance and dizzy. He went back to Sands hospital. Sands told him they
      didn't know
      what was going on, all of his tests were normal.


      Sands' ER doctors did not call in a cardiology consult despite the fact that
      many of his symptoms were cardiac in nature.

      Mr. Scott called back his PCP and went to see him. He told him of his
      complaints and of the fact that he was also unable to sleep. The cardiologist
      referred him to a neurologist. the neurologist did a brain MRI and he told
      Mr. S he
      was normal.


      By this time Mr. S was not able to work or drive. The PCP put him on anti
      depressants, Mr. S told him he wasn't' depressed. In December of the same
      year, Mr. Scott went back to the hospital and told them of his shortness of
      breath and his upper abdominal pain. Sands' ER doctors told him his was fine
      and to
      take some more pepcid.

      An EKG was done during this visit which showed an old heart attack.

      3 days later Mr. S died of an enlarged heart caused by heart disease.

      The radiologists were sued along with PCP, the cardiologist, and the ER docs.

      Plaintiff's experts will testify that :
      1. the heart condition could have been diagnosed by a simple echocardiogram.
      2.the heart was enlarged on x-ray.
      3. the cardiologist should have advised patient to do echo and follow up
      studies since he only did part of the workup in the hospital.
      4. The ER docs should have called in a cardiologist in September and
      December.
      Mr. S could have been saved if treated with medicines.
      5. The Medical examiner at autopsy found the heart to be enlarged.
      CT-scan showed
      that the heart wall muscles are enlarged. This was confirmed by
      autopsy.

      defense's experts will say:
      1. The radiologists state that the heart is not enlarged. (see plaintiff's
      point # 5)
      A CT-scan can't accurately determine muscle size and therefore the doctor did
      not fall below the standard of care.


      The way you measure a heart on x-ray is by using a simple formula. If the
      heart size is greater than 50% of the chest cavity it considered enlarged.
      Our
      expert opines that it is about 55%. Their experts state that it greater than
      50%
      however argue that you also have to look at the overall heart size not just
      the width and therefore it is not enlarged.



      2. The defendant's cardiologist argues that all the cardiologist was supposed
      to do in the hospital was rule out whether the patient was having a heart
      attack at the time. He is not required to do all testing in an emergency
      setting.
      Had anyone told him that he was having continuing symptoms he would have done
      more tests. This doctor had not instructed him to return if he had additional
      symptoms and did not schedule any follow up appointments. The discharge
      printed form given by the hospital tells him to follow up with the
      cardiologist but
      the cardiologist specifically told him not to follow up with him. this is not
      disputed by the cardiologist. The cardiologist will by inference argue that
      the other medical providers should have alerted him to the continued cardiac
      symptoms.

      3. The ER physicians will argue that since the x-ray came back normal in
      September they had no reason to believe there was a cardiac problem. Also his
      problem also resolved during the visits. In September they thought his
      problems
      were neurological since he also complained of loss of balance. In September
      the
      ER docs did nothing to figure out his reason for shortness of breath which is
      a major cardiac symptom. Also they called the primary care physician and told
      of his symptoms and it was the PCPs job to make the appropriate referal.The
      main argument for the ER physicians is that the patients condition was not
      life
      threatening and they didn't see reason to admit. They also feel that his
      upper
      abdominal complaints were most likely related to his acid reflex and hiatal
      hernia.
      The PCP says he made multiple referrals to initially the cardiologist and
      then to a gastroenterolgist then neurologist and he acted appropriately.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • karousel
      First of all, you have to start out with the scientific theory of cause and effect . The effect are the symptoms presenting themselves (upper abdominal
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 1, 2004
        First of all, you have to start out with the scientific theory of "cause and
        effect". The "effect" are the symptoms presenting themselves (upper
        abdominal pain and nausea) and the "cause" is what the emergency room has to
        determine and stabilize.

        I am not a doctor, but

        (1) I do know there are many conditions that can cause upper abdominal pain
        and nausea.

        (2) Also, I am not familiar with what many tests can determine. For
        example, an ultrasound of the abdominal area may not show something that a
        CT scan or MRI of the abdominal area can show.

        >>>> The hospital did an ultrasound of his abdomen and told him he was fine
        and was given pepcid. <<<
        This test indicated there was no problem (that can be determined from that
        TYPE of test) coming from the abdominal area. OK. Then why give him pepcid
        and send him home? The ultrasound apparently was not the appropriate test
        to diagnose his symptoms - but OK, they were able to eliminate one of the
        very many possibilities. They still have not determined what the man's
        problem is...and sent him home.



        >>>> Several weeks later, Mr. S went back to the hospital this time with
        terrible chest pains, and shortness of breath. Several tests were done at
        the hospital to determine whether Mr. S was having a heart attack.
        The tests, including an x-ray, stress test, EKG, cardiac enzymes all came
        back normal. An echocardiogram was not done and the cardiologist never asked
        the patient to follow up with him. After being discharged Mr. S still felt
        horrible. He continued to have chest pain and shortness of breath.<<<

        Mr. S. should have never been discharged from the hospital. He should have
        been admitted and testing should have continued until his problem was
        diagnosed. Chest pains and shortness of breath are life-threatening
        symptoms. An echocardiogram should have been done and the cardiologist
        should have followed up with him.

        This scenario only mentions specific tests,. However, only another doctor
        can be more specific as they would know what OTHER tests are available to
        rule out specific problems. If there are other diagnostic tests available
        and those other tests were not ordered, then there is negligence.


        >>>He continued to have chest pain and shortness of breath.Mr. S called his
        primary care physician(PCP) who did not call back the cardiologist but
        instead called a gastroenteroligist.<<<

        The PCP should have an idea of the many conditions that would cause the
        symptoms Mr. S. had. He should have known that there were other tests
        available to check for other heart CONDITIONS. A heart attack is one of
        MANY heart conditions although it should have been re-checked. He, too,
        IMO, was negligent.


        >>> The PCP believed that Mr. S had a complete cardiology work-up at Sands
        Hospital but did not have the records at the time of making the referral to
        the gastroenterologist <<<

        He ASS-U-MEd incorrectly. The tests Mr. S. DID have is NOT a complete
        cardiac work-up. He made decisions that were not based on his patient's
        medical records - which he did not have possession of. The PCP could have
        easily called Sands Hospital and had the records faxed to him so he could
        make an educated decision - not a poor presumption.


        >>>> Several months went by and now Mr. S was short of breath, fatigued,
        loss of balance and dizzy. He went back to Sands hospital. Sands told him
        they didn't know what was going on, all of his tests were normal. <<<
        Negligence/malpractice. Were these tests current tests done with this new
        ER visit? Whatever tests were "normal", obviously not the appropriate tests
        to diagnose an ongoing problem that is life threatening in nature. Hello!
        Anyone home? They should have pursued it, obviously. They should have
        gotten their heads out of their ........ and should have done work-ups in
        other areas. With the symptoms possibly being cardiac, Mr. S. should have
        received all tests available and exhausted them all to determine there was
        NOTHING wrong with his heart and simultaneously, should have been tested in
        other areas where his symptoms could be produced by other organs or
        conditions.


        An MRI of the brain is OK, as long as it would have been done simultaneously
        with other tests.


        >>>> An EKG was done during this visit which showed an old heart attack.<<<
        It has to be determined if the original EKG could have missed a heart attack
        (when he was first complaining of the symptoms) or if this occurred SINCE
        then, and obviously missed during his subsequent doctor/ER visits because it
        was assumed it wasn't his heart. (negligence)


        >>>> By this time Mr. S was not able to work or drive. The PCP put him on
        anti depressants, Mr. S told him he wasn't' depressed. In December of the
        same year, Mr. Scott went back to the hospital and told them of his
        shortness of breath and his upper abdominal pain. Sands' ER doctors told him
        his was fine and to take some more pepcid.<<<

        Sure, when in doubt - when you can't or don't figure out what is wrong with
        a patient, call it DEPRESSION, fill him up with pills and what the heck,
        some pepcid too.


        >>>> defense's experts will say:
        > A CT-scan can't accurately determine muscle size and therefore the doctor
        did not fall below the standard of care.<<<
        No, but other tests can. And omission is what killed this poor man.


        >>>> 2. The defendant's cardiologist argues that all the cardiologist was
        supposed to do in the hospital was rule out whether the patient was having a
        heart attack at the time. He is not required to do all testing in an
        emergency setting. <<<
        It is true that he is not required to do all testing in an emergency
        setting. However, the symptoms were strong enough to require a different
        evaluation. He should not have been sent home and should have been admitted
        to the hospital from the onset.

        I believe all doctors are culpable.

        wjf






        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Jurydoctor@...>
        To: <infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: <Attorney-InformationExchange@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 12:15 PM
        Subject: [infoguys-list] could Mr. Scott be saved?


        > Mr. S. was married and had a 10 year daughter when he died.
        > On 3-22-98 Mr. Scott, a 33 year old, 245 pound security guard who was 5'6
        > went to the emergency room at Sands Hospital complaining of upper
        abdominal
        > pain and nausea.
        >
        >
        > The hospital did an ultrasound of his abdomen and told him he was fine and
        > was given pepcid.
        >
        > Several weeks later, Mr. S went back to the hospital this time with
        > terrible chest pains, and shortness of breath. Several tests were done at
        the
        > hospital to determine whether Mr. S was having a heart attack.
        >
        > The tests, including an x-ray, stress test, EKG, cardiac enzymes all came
        > back normal. An echocardiogram was not done and the cardiologist never
        asked
        > the
        > patient to follow up with him. After being discharged Mr. S still felt
        > horrible. He continued to have chest pain and shortness of breath.Mr. S
        > called his
        > primary care physician(PCP) who did not call back the cardiologist but
        > instead
        > called a gastroenteroligist.
        >
        >
        > Mr. S had told PCP what had happened at Sands hospital and advised him of
        his
        > complaints. The PCP believed that Mr. S had a complete cardiology work-up
        at
        > Sands Hospital but did not have the records at the time of making the
        > referral to the gastroenterologist
        >
        > .The gastro was told by PCP that a complete cardiac work up was done at
        > Sandler. The gastro performed tests and found that Mr. S did have some
        acid
        > refux
        > and a small hernia but it could not be the cause of all Mr. S's
        complaints.
        > Several months went by and now Mr. S was short of breath, fatigued, loss
        of
        > balance and dizzy. He went back to Sands hospital. Sands told him they
        > didn't know
        > what was going on, all of his tests were normal.
        >
        >
        > Sands' ER doctors did not call in a cardiology consult despite the fact
        that
        > many of his symptoms were cardiac in nature.
        >
        > Mr. Scott called back his PCP and went to see him. He told him of his
        > complaints and of the fact that he was also unable to sleep. The
        cardiologist
        > referred him to a neurologist. the neurologist did a brain MRI and he told
        > Mr. S he
        > was normal.
        >
        >
        > By this time Mr. S was not able to work or drive. The PCP put him on anti
        > depressants, Mr. S told him he wasn't' depressed. In December of the
        same
        > year, Mr. Scott went back to the hospital and told them of his shortness
        of
        > breath and his upper abdominal pain. Sands' ER doctors told him his was
        fine
        > and to
        > take some more pepcid.
        >
        > An EKG was done during this visit which showed an old heart attack.
        >
        > 3 days later Mr. S died of an enlarged heart caused by heart disease.
        >
        > The radiologists were sued along with PCP, the cardiologist, and the ER
        docs.
        >
        > Plaintiff's experts will testify that :
        > 1. the heart condition could have been diagnosed by a simple
        echocardiogram.
        > 2.the heart was enlarged on x-ray.
        > 3. the cardiologist should have advised patient to do echo and follow up
        > studies since he only did part of the workup in the hospital.
        > 4. The ER docs should have called in a cardiologist in September and
        > December.
        > Mr. S could have been saved if treated with medicines.
        > 5. The Medical examiner at autopsy found the heart to be enlarged.
        > CT-scan showed
        > that the heart wall muscles are enlarged. This was confirmed by
        > autopsy.
        >
        > defense's experts will say:
        > 1. The radiologists state that the heart is not enlarged. (see
        plaintiff's
        > point # 5)
        > A CT-scan can't accurately determine muscle size and therefore the doctor
        did
        > not fall below the standard of care.
        >
        >
        > The way you measure a heart on x-ray is by using a simple formula. If the
        > heart size is greater than 50% of the chest cavity it considered enlarged.
        > Our
        > expert opines that it is about 55%. Their experts state that it greater
        than
        > 50%
        > however argue that you also have to look at the overall heart size not
        just
        > the width and therefore it is not enlarged.
        >
        >
        >
        > 2. The defendant's cardiologist argues that all the cardiologist was
        supposed
        > to do in the hospital was rule out whether the patient was having a heart
        > attack at the time. He is not required to do all testing in an emergency
        > setting.
        > Had anyone told him that he was having continuing symptoms he would have
        done
        > more tests. This doctor had not instructed him to return if he had
        additional
        > symptoms and did not schedule any follow up appointments. The discharge
        > printed form given by the hospital tells him to follow up with the
        > cardiologist but
        > the cardiologist specifically told him not to follow up with him. this is
        not
        > disputed by the cardiologist. The cardiologist will by inference argue
        that
        > the other medical providers should have alerted him to the continued
        cardiac
        > symptoms.
        >
        > 3. The ER physicians will argue that since the x-ray came back normal in
        > September they had no reason to believe there was a cardiac problem. Also
        his
        > problem also resolved during the visits. In September they thought his
        > problems
        > were neurological since he also complained of loss of balance. In
        September
        > the
        > ER docs did nothing to figure out his reason for shortness of breath which
        is
        > a major cardiac symptom. Also they called the primary care physician and
        told
        > of his symptoms and it was the PCPs job to make the appropriate
        referal.The
        > main argument for the ER physicians is that the patients condition was not
        > life
        > threatening and they didn't see reason to admit. They also feel that his
        > upper
        > abdominal complaints were most likely related to his acid reflex and
        hiatal
        > hernia.
        > The PCP says he made multiple referrals to initially the cardiologist and
        > then to a gastroenterolgist then neurologist and he acted appropriately.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > <p><hr></p>
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