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RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"

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  • Rus B. Robison
    Our handful , as you put it is just like any other 90/10 organization. 10% of the members do 90% of the work. Our 10% here feel obligated to protect the
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Our "handful", as you put it is just like any other 90/10 organization. 10%
      of the members do 90% of the work. Our 10% here feel obligated to protect
      the other 90% who, for whatever reason, did not understand the pitfalls of
      taking this type of assignment.

      Secondly, yesterday was the first time in 15 years I have seen any provider
      offer to pay hourly wages to conduct these investigations. I did, however,
      receive an e-mail last week from the bigger named provider who advertises on
      numerous lists and stated that "Sorry, no hourly pay available."

      If the big boys are not paying it, why would we expect the smaller providers
      to be any different?

      You sent me an e-mail to contact your office about the hourly pay. I sent
      you an e-mail with our rates. You sent back an e-mail saying that I did not
      contact your office. What did you think my e-mail was that I sent to you?
      If you could not realize it was a "contact", why would we expect you would
      get anything else correct?

      If you have a plan that produces regular pay for regular work on these
      events, I suggest you stop hiding behind it and let the world know. It will
      be a wonderful departure from the scams of the past where investigators are
      required to bet on the come. And I, for one, will applaud your efforts to
      make the program right when the program is properly presented.

      Rus B. Robison




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Law Offices of Attorney Services [mailto:embassyuniversal@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:13 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"


      September 2, 2003

      Dear Moderator:

      Your proposed polling of 563 group members to vote as to terminate
      our access to the list, as well as the other firms who hire private
      investigators for a variety of tasks related to signal piracy,
      process service, civil and criminal background checks, and a host of
      other assignments - seems to stem from less than a dozen critics,
      one of which has stated it is his mission to keep all private
      investigators in your group (and others) from working both on a paid
      or bounty basis as our firm and others in the past have offered. If
      you permit the few to decide on your motion, then it is of course
      your choice and we can move on.

      In reading your group mission statement and forum rules:

      "Infoguys listserve is a tool for the information professional, the
      attorney, the private investigator, and the general public."

      Answer: We have certainly abided by your mission statement.

      ------

      "It's aim is the friendly, useful, and responsible exchange of legal
      investigative information among all its list members."

      Answer:
      In the face of some comments posted board members who have been less
      than friendly, we will continue to honor your rules of exchange.
      However, one member wrote:

      ------

      "This is starting to sound like a personal vendetta (whether it is
      or not);let's educate those who have no experience to the pros and
      cons of doing so, and let them make their own individual educated
      choice."

      Answer:
      Our educational forums are at another site. If an applicant
      inquires as to the details of the agreement, they can be either
      emailed or faxed or accessed with a pass code to a website. Posting
      the full educational certifications to your group would be a
      disservice to your mission statement and agenda. But the education
      is readily available for those to make an informed decision without
      relying on an opinion posted by a handful.

      ------

      "Use the list to network, to contact a source out of your
      geographical area or out of your area of expertise. Use the list to
      find an investigator or to find a client."

      Answer:
      That is our aim.

      ------

      "Please refrain from aggressive advertising..."

      Answer:
      There has only been one other firm this year that has advertised
      openings. I believe a search under both our names will find that
      our advertising for this assignment has been once in early August,
      and one more on some groups where we posted a deadline for this
      week. Other firms in the last 5 years may have been more
      aggressive. We chose not to do so.

      ------

      Well-recognized leaders in the industry and in private investigation
      have posted signal piracy assignments to this group. A simply
      search using the keyword "piracy" will reveal the names of many who
      have endorsed these types of assignments.

      ------

      Other comments and questions posted include:

      "Does your criteria state anything about being a licensed
      investigator for membership to this list? Unless there is credible
      evidence to the contrary, I have seen nothing to indicate that the
      person posting is a licensed investigator."

      Answer:
      Private Investigators who work for law firms do not require an
      additional state license if their assignments and employment pertain
      to the law firm's clients, operating under the professional license
      of the attorney. Nearly all states that regulate private
      investigators have a minimum of 12 exemptions to licensing.
      Further, there are 6-7 states where no licensing is required on a
      state level.

      ------

      "The current poll is running at 10+ to 1 for people not making a
      dime in this endeavor."

      Answer:
      At last count, there are over 100,000 private investigators in the
      USA (both regulated and unregulated). There are 563 group members
      here. There are over 1000 private investigators and professionals
      who continually earn paychecks from our firm and others. Not
      everyone earns a check. Not everyone works bounty only. Not
      everyone works hourly. At best, the poll is skewed.

      ------

      "I have gotten as many as seven (7) violators for one event by
      myself, and made about $2,000.00 for three (3) hours of work. Since
      then most of the establishments in Atlanta are legal, and the
      benefits have dried up."

      Answer:
      Our firm does not over promote a low advertised or little-known
      event. If we do, we offer it for newcomers as a dry run training
      exercise to become familiar with the territory and suspects. For
      experienced pros, we only invite them to these less active events if
      the investigator has nothing else to do on a Saturday night for 3
      hours. We make it our business to follow the news and the
      promotion. For the bigger events, such as this coming match, it is
      not to be missed by those who know there will be thieves. Even so,
      we have had calls from the promoters for some areas where they have
      salaried investigators $100 for coverage. There may be areas that
      have "dried up" for pirates, but some of those areas are still
      salaried by the promoters to insure legal auditing.

      ------

      "there is no motivation to change by the promoter. It costs him
      nothing for us to go beat our brains out."

      Answer:
      To the contrary, investigators have been offered either a bounty
      only agreement or a salary-only for $100 with some firms. The
      determination on the bounty (for our firm) is that the investigator
      must become qualified (or trained) for the assignment before he/she
      is dispatched. For the salaried positions, it is a matter of
      applying with a resume and employment history.

      ------

      "an opening in your area for "new" investigators. These posts have
      been going on for several years and the opportunity pool gets a
      little more shallow after each event."

      Answer:
      In the last 8 years there have been a few private investigators who
      falsified their reports in order to be paid double the earnings
      through a fellow conspirator. Some firms chose to limit the areas
      of coverage to preclude such fraud. Other firms have opened up
      their territories to all interested, which may have caused too much
      coverage. Our firm employs a check and balance procedure to prevent
      fraud. Moreover, because of this procedure, we have paid bounties
      to more than one investigator who made the same hit on the same
      pirate. Therefore, our "opportunity pool" is well managed.

      ------

      Summary:

      In all fairness, we respectfully request the readers of your group
      to refrain from assuming facts based on opinion. Our participation
      with your group will remain, as it has always been, that of an
      invited guest. We will conduct ourselves with the utmost respect to
      you, the list owner, and to your members - regardless of what they
      may post in return.

      For those who are interested in interacting with seasoned
      professionals who have made consistent money with our firm, we
      invite you to contact our office directly.

      Respectfully,

      William Marshall
      Attorney Services
      National Office - Western States
      (406) 837-4432

      Office Hours:
      Monday through Friday
      9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Mountain Time







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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ronald K Widman
      I would think some of you might spend some time working instead of beating this to death. I personally don t do that kind of work but if someone else wants to
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 3, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        I would think some of you might spend some time working instead of beating this to death. I personally don't do that kind of work but if someone else wants to - it s no sweat of my nose. Those in the opposition view had the opportunity to express your opinion - now let it go - You're clogging up the emails - If you think your opinion is the only ones that count than you are a bigger problem than this issue.

        Ron Widman
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Rus B. Robison
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:40 AM
        Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"


        Our "handful", as you put it is just like any other 90/10 organization. 10%
        of the members do 90% of the work. Our 10% here feel obligated to protect
        the other 90% who, for whatever reason, did not understand the pitfalls of
        taking this type of assignment.

        Secondly, yesterday was the first time in 15 years I have seen any provider
        offer to pay hourly wages to conduct these investigations. I did, however,
        receive an e-mail last week from the bigger named provider who advertises on
        numerous lists and stated that "Sorry, no hourly pay available."

        If the big boys are not paying it, why would we expect the smaller providers
        to be any different?

        You sent me an e-mail to contact your office about the hourly pay. I sent
        you an e-mail with our rates. You sent back an e-mail saying that I did not
        contact your office. What did you think my e-mail was that I sent to you?
        If you could not realize it was a "contact", why would we expect you would
        get anything else correct?

        If you have a plan that produces regular pay for regular work on these
        events, I suggest you stop hiding behind it and let the world know. It will
        be a wonderful departure from the scams of the past where investigators are
        required to bet on the come. And I, for one, will applaud your efforts to
        make the program right when the program is properly presented.

        Rus B. Robison




        -----Original Message-----
        From: Law Offices of Attorney Services [mailto:embassyuniversal@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:13 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"


        September 2, 2003

        Dear Moderator:

        Your proposed polling of 563 group members to vote as to terminate
        our access to the list, as well as the other firms who hire private
        investigators for a variety of tasks related to signal piracy,
        process service, civil and criminal background checks, and a host of
        other assignments - seems to stem from less than a dozen critics,
        one of which has stated it is his mission to keep all private
        investigators in your group (and others) from working both on a paid
        or bounty basis as our firm and others in the past have offered. If
        you permit the few to decide on your motion, then it is of course
        your choice and we can move on.

        In reading your group mission statement and forum rules:

        "Infoguys listserve is a tool for the information professional, the
        attorney, the private investigator, and the general public."

        Answer: We have certainly abided by your mission statement.

        ------

        "It's aim is the friendly, useful, and responsible exchange of legal
        investigative information among all its list members."

        Answer:
        In the face of some comments posted board members who have been less
        than friendly, we will continue to honor your rules of exchange.
        However, one member wrote:

        ------

        "This is starting to sound like a personal vendetta (whether it is
        or not);let's educate those who have no experience to the pros and
        cons of doing so, and let them make their own individual educated
        choice."

        Answer:
        Our educational forums are at another site. If an applicant
        inquires as to the details of the agreement, they can be either
        emailed or faxed or accessed with a pass code to a website. Posting
        the full educational certifications to your group would be a
        disservice to your mission statement and agenda. But the education
        is readily available for those to make an informed decision without
        relying on an opinion posted by a handful.

        ------

        "Use the list to network, to contact a source out of your
        geographical area or out of your area of expertise. Use the list to
        find an investigator or to find a client."

        Answer:
        That is our aim.

        ------

        "Please refrain from aggressive advertising..."

        Answer:
        There has only been one other firm this year that has advertised
        openings. I believe a search under both our names will find that
        our advertising for this assignment has been once in early August,
        and one more on some groups where we posted a deadline for this
        week. Other firms in the last 5 years may have been more
        aggressive. We chose not to do so.

        ------

        Well-recognized leaders in the industry and in private investigation
        have posted signal piracy assignments to this group. A simply
        search using the keyword "piracy" will reveal the names of many who
        have endorsed these types of assignments.

        ------

        Other comments and questions posted include:

        "Does your criteria state anything about being a licensed
        investigator for membership to this list? Unless there is credible
        evidence to the contrary, I have seen nothing to indicate that the
        person posting is a licensed investigator."

        Answer:
        Private Investigators who work for law firms do not require an
        additional state license if their assignments and employment pertain
        to the law firm's clients, operating under the professional license
        of the attorney. Nearly all states that regulate private
        investigators have a minimum of 12 exemptions to licensing.
        Further, there are 6-7 states where no licensing is required on a
        state level.

        ------

        "The current poll is running at 10+ to 1 for people not making a
        dime in this endeavor."

        Answer:
        At last count, there are over 100,000 private investigators in the
        USA (both regulated and unregulated). There are 563 group members
        here. There are over 1000 private investigators and professionals
        who continually earn paychecks from our firm and others. Not
        everyone earns a check. Not everyone works bounty only. Not
        everyone works hourly. At best, the poll is skewed.

        ------

        "I have gotten as many as seven (7) violators for one event by
        myself, and made about $2,000.00 for three (3) hours of work. Since
        then most of the establishments in Atlanta are legal, and the
        benefits have dried up."

        Answer:
        Our firm does not over promote a low advertised or little-known
        event. If we do, we offer it for newcomers as a dry run training
        exercise to become familiar with the territory and suspects. For
        experienced pros, we only invite them to these less active events if
        the investigator has nothing else to do on a Saturday night for 3
        hours. We make it our business to follow the news and the
        promotion. For the bigger events, such as this coming match, it is
        not to be missed by those who know there will be thieves. Even so,
        we have had calls from the promoters for some areas where they have
        salaried investigators $100 for coverage. There may be areas that
        have "dried up" for pirates, but some of those areas are still
        salaried by the promoters to insure legal auditing.

        ------

        "there is no motivation to change by the promoter. It costs him
        nothing for us to go beat our brains out."

        Answer:
        To the contrary, investigators have been offered either a bounty
        only agreement or a salary-only for $100 with some firms. The
        determination on the bounty (for our firm) is that the investigator
        must become qualified (or trained) for the assignment before he/she
        is dispatched. For the salaried positions, it is a matter of
        applying with a resume and employment history.

        ------

        "an opening in your area for "new" investigators. These posts have
        been going on for several years and the opportunity pool gets a
        little more shallow after each event."

        Answer:
        In the last 8 years there have been a few private investigators who
        falsified their reports in order to be paid double the earnings
        through a fellow conspirator. Some firms chose to limit the areas
        of coverage to preclude such fraud. Other firms have opened up
        their territories to all interested, which may have caused too much
        coverage. Our firm employs a check and balance procedure to prevent
        fraud. Moreover, because of this procedure, we have paid bounties
        to more than one investigator who made the same hit on the same
        pirate. Therefore, our "opportunity pool" is well managed.

        ------

        Summary:

        In all fairness, we respectfully request the readers of your group
        to refrain from assuming facts based on opinion. Our participation
        with your group will remain, as it has always been, that of an
        invited guest. We will conduct ourselves with the utmost respect to
        you, the list owner, and to your members - regardless of what they
        may post in return.

        For those who are interested in interacting with seasoned
        professionals who have made consistent money with our firm, we
        invite you to contact our office directly.

        Respectfully,

        William Marshall
        Attorney Services
        National Office - Western States
        (406) 837-4432

        Office Hours:
        Monday through Friday
        9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Mountain Time







        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        ADVERTISEMENT




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      • iaoa7@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/2/2003 2:49:09 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I do totally agree with you. Andrew G Astro Legal Services [Non-text portions of this message
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 3, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 9/2/2003 2:49:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
          rbr@... writes:


          > Sometimes, on the rarest of occasions, we will actually serve some
          > ourselves. We charge a regular hourly rate or $100 whichever is greater.
          > We charge by the trip and waiting time if necessary.

          I do totally agree with you.
          Andrew G
          Astro Legal Services


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rus B. Robison
          Hi Andrew, I learned a few decades ago that all I have to sell is my time and expertise. Since time waits for no one, I have to charge it immediately. There
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Andrew,

            I learned a few decades ago that all I have to sell is my time and
            expertise. Since time waits for no one, I have to charge it immediately.
            There are others who do not share my sentiments and run all over
            helter-skelter for $35. That's fine, if it's what you want to do.

            Some folks work hard...some folks work smart. I hope I am in the "work
            smart" category.

            Let me share a great "Okie" story with you.

            An old bull and a young bull were standing on top of a hill looking down on
            a meadow full of heifers.

            The young bull said. "Why don't we run down the hill, jump the fence and
            have sex with one of those heifers?"

            The old bull replied, "Well, son, why don't we walk down the hill, crawl
            under the fence and have sex with ALL of them?"

            Would you rather be the young bull or the old bull?

            Rus
            -----Original Message-----
            From: iaoa7@... [mailto:iaoa7@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:16 AM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Hello group "Moderator Question"


            In a message dated 9/2/2003 2:49:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
            rbr@... writes:


            > Sometimes, on the rarest of occasions, we will actually serve some
            > ourselves. We charge a regular hourly rate or $100 whichever is
            greater.
            > We charge by the trip and waiting time if necessary.

            I do totally agree with you.
            Andrew G
            Astro Legal Services


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • jrm1@optonline.net
            I d like to second that. John Misak USU / JRM ... From: R Cooper [mailto:coop_37411@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:34 PM To:
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 3, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              I'd like to second that.

              John Misak
              USU / JRM

              -----Original Message-----
              From: R Cooper [mailto:coop_37411@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:34 PM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Hello group "Moderator Question"


              I must have received 50 e mails
              today about the fight. I could
              care less. If you have the ability
              to stop them. It would be nice.

              Thank you,

              Ric Cooper

              A1 Action Investigations
              Chattanooga, Tn.


              --- Ed Prevost <eprevost@...> wrote:
              > I vote to terminate their membership in this group.
              > They have the ability to
              > form their own yahoo group and do as they wish, but
              > I agree we should not
              > allow them to mock our profession by their cons.
              >
              > Still there are people out there serving process for
              > $15-$20 a pop. Ever
              > wonder what would happen in our civil courts if
              > process was not served?
              >
              > Ed Prevost
              > Private Investigator-Serving South Louisiana
              > LA Lic: 1472-050895-LA
              > ofc-985-727-9109
              > cel- 504-376-4011
              > toll free vmail/fax-877-808-7179
              > PO Box 1178, Mandeville, La. 70470-1178 eprevost@...
              > ###.neworleanspi.com Team Member of MissingKIN
              > "Dedicated to finding missing and abducted children"
              > Web: ####***www.MissingKIN.com
              >
              >
              > > WOW what a day. I would like input on the
              > Message "Investigative
              > > Assignment: Delahoya v. Mosley; 9/13/03" I can
              > stop letting them
              > > post or keep letting them post. I can do nothing
              > without support from
              > > the group. My email is leif@... OR
              > infoguys-list-
              > > owner@yahoogroups.com I am only one person and As
              > many of you know
              > > I am more than willing to accept and follow group
              > opinion. I am not
              > > able to please everyone but I will take the advice
              > of anyone who will
              > > offer it.
              > > leif
              > >
              > > PS. Nothing changes unless we change it as a
              > group.
              >
              >
              >
              >


              =====
              Ric Cooper

              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
              ####***sitebuilder.yahoo.com



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            • Tina Elkins
              I do not agree with closing the list, as there are several lists just for PI s now. I have one of them. Having the ability to ask for assistance is necessary
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 4, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I do not agree with closing the list, as there are several lists just
                for PI's now. I have one of them.

                Having the ability to ask for assistance is necessary for the public.
                If we close all forums, then how will Lawyers, general public, etc. look
                for assistance in areas outside of their homebase?

                Just my 2 cents worth.

                Tina
                --
                Tina Elkins, LPI

                T.A.M.A. Investigations, Inc.
                Agency License #1807
                P.O. Box 1064
                Snellville, GA 30078

                Office: 770-682-4376
                Fax: 770-682-0052
                E-mail: tamainv@...
                http://www.ga-pi.com

                AOL Instant Messenger: tamainv2

                Associations: GAPPI, IPAG, NAIS, USPSA, ACI, IWWA

                This e-mail communication is not intended as and should not be
                interpreted as legal advice or a legal opinion. Do not act or
                rely upon the information in this communication without seeking the
                advice of an attorney. All information in this email
                is copyrighted as of the writing of the material.
              • Tina Elkins
                Doing these fights is a WASTE of a PI s time. You do not make money unless you are paid hourly. If the company is not willing to pay an hourly rate don t do
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 4, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Doing these fights is a WASTE of a PI's time. You do not make money
                  unless you are paid hourly. If the company is not willing to pay an
                  hourly rate don't do it.

                  Sometimes these companies, accidentally (so they say), assign more than
                  one investigator to an area.

                  IF YOU DON'T GET PAID HOURLY, don't do IT. You are wasting your time,
                  if you don't have anything better to do, consider working on your
                  marketing, to increase your work load.

                  Tina Elkins

                  "Rus B. Robison" wrote:
                  >
                  > Our "handful", as you put it is just like any other 90/10
                  > organization. 10%
                  > of the members do 90% of the work. Our 10% here feel obligated to
                  > protect
                  > the other 90% who, for whatever reason, did not understand the
                  > pitfalls of
                  > taking this type of assignment.
                  >
                  > Secondly, yesterday was the first time in 15 years I have seen any
                  > provider
                  > offer to pay hourly wages to conduct these investigations. I did,
                  > however,
                  > receive an e-mail last week from the bigger named provider who
                  > advertises on
                  > numerous lists and stated that "Sorry, no hourly pay available."
                  >
                  > If the big boys are not paying it, why would we expect the smaller
                  > providers
                  > to be any different?
                  >
                  > You sent me an e-mail to contact your office about the hourly pay. I
                  > sent
                  > you an e-mail with our rates. You sent back an e-mail saying that I
                  > did not
                  > contact your office. What did you think my e-mail was that I sent to
                  > you?
                  > If you could not realize it was a "contact", why would we expect you
                  > would
                  > get anything else correct?
                  >
                  > If you have a plan that produces regular pay for regular work on these
                  > events, I suggest you stop hiding behind it and let the world know.
                  > It will
                  > be a wonderful departure from the scams of the past where
                  > investigators are
                  > required to bet on the come. And I, for one, will applaud your efforts
                  > to
                  > make the program right when the program is properly presented.
                  >
                  > Rus B. Robison
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Law Offices of Attorney Services
                  > [mailto:embassyuniversal@...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:13 PM
                  > To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"
                  >
                  > September 2, 2003
                  >
                  > Dear Moderator:
                  >
                  > Your proposed polling of 563 group members to vote as to terminate
                  > our access to the list, as well as the other firms who hire private
                  > investigators for a variety of tasks related to signal piracy,
                  > process service, civil and criminal background checks, and a host of
                  > other assignments - seems to stem from less than a dozen critics,
                  > one of which has stated it is his mission to keep all private
                  > investigators in your group (and others) from working both on a paid
                  > or bounty basis as our firm and others in the past have offered. If
                  > you permit the few to decide on your motion, then it is of course
                  > your choice and we can move on.
                  >
                  > In reading your group mission statement and forum rules:
                  >
                  > "Infoguys listserve is a tool for the information professional, the
                  > attorney, the private investigator, and the general public."
                  >
                  > Answer: We have certainly abided by your mission statement.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "It's aim is the friendly, useful, and responsible exchange of legal
                  > investigative information among all its list members."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > In the face of some comments posted board members who have been less
                  > than friendly, we will continue to honor your rules of exchange.
                  > However, one member wrote:
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "This is starting to sound like a personal vendetta (whether it is
                  > or not);let's educate those who have no experience to the pros and
                  > cons of doing so, and let them make their own individual educated
                  > choice."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > Our educational forums are at another site. If an applicant
                  > inquires as to the details of the agreement, they can be either
                  > emailed or faxed or accessed with a pass code to a website. Posting
                  > the full educational certifications to your group would be a
                  > disservice to your mission statement and agenda. But the education
                  > is readily available for those to make an informed decision without
                  > relying on an opinion posted by a handful.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "Use the list to network, to contact a source out of your
                  > geographical area or out of your area of expertise. Use the list to
                  > find an investigator or to find a client."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > That is our aim.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "Please refrain from aggressive advertising..."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > There has only been one other firm this year that has advertised
                  > openings. I believe a search under both our names will find that
                  > our advertising for this assignment has been once in early August,
                  > and one more on some groups where we posted a deadline for this
                  > week. Other firms in the last 5 years may have been more
                  > aggressive. We chose not to do so.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > Well-recognized leaders in the industry and in private investigation
                  > have posted signal piracy assignments to this group. A simply
                  > search using the keyword "piracy" will reveal the names of many who
                  > have endorsed these types of assignments.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > Other comments and questions posted include:
                  >
                  > "Does your criteria state anything about being a licensed
                  > investigator for membership to this list? Unless there is credible
                  > evidence to the contrary, I have seen nothing to indicate that the
                  > person posting is a licensed investigator."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > Private Investigators who work for law firms do not require an
                  > additional state license if their assignments and employment pertain
                  > to the law firm's clients, operating under the professional license
                  > of the attorney. Nearly all states that regulate private
                  > investigators have a minimum of 12 exemptions to licensing.
                  > Further, there are 6-7 states where no licensing is required on a
                  > state level.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "The current poll is running at 10+ to 1 for people not making a
                  > dime in this endeavor."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > At last count, there are over 100,000 private investigators in the
                  > USA (both regulated and unregulated). There are 563 group members
                  > here. There are over 1000 private investigators and professionals
                  > who continually earn paychecks from our firm and others. Not
                  > everyone earns a check. Not everyone works bounty only. Not
                  > everyone works hourly. At best, the poll is skewed.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "I have gotten as many as seven (7) violators for one event by
                  > myself, and made about $2,000.00 for three (3) hours of work. Since
                  > then most of the establishments in Atlanta are legal, and the
                  > benefits have dried up."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > Our firm does not over promote a low advertised or little-known
                  > event. If we do, we offer it for newcomers as a dry run training
                  > exercise to become familiar with the territory and suspects. For
                  > experienced pros, we only invite them to these less active events if
                  > the investigator has nothing else to do on a Saturday night for 3
                  > hours. We make it our business to follow the news and the
                  > promotion. For the bigger events, such as this coming match, it is
                  > not to be missed by those who know there will be thieves. Even so,
                  > we have had calls from the promoters for some areas where they have
                  > salaried investigators $100 for coverage. There may be areas that
                  > have "dried up" for pirates, but some of those areas are still
                  > salaried by the promoters to insure legal auditing.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "there is no motivation to change by the promoter. It costs him
                  > nothing for us to go beat our brains out."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > To the contrary, investigators have been offered either a bounty
                  > only agreement or a salary-only for $100 with some firms. The
                  > determination on the bounty (for our firm) is that the investigator
                  > must become qualified (or trained) for the assignment before he/she
                  > is dispatched. For the salaried positions, it is a matter of
                  > applying with a resume and employment history.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > "an opening in your area for "new" investigators. These posts have
                  > been going on for several years and the opportunity pool gets a
                  > little more shallow after each event."
                  >
                  > Answer:
                  > In the last 8 years there have been a few private investigators who
                  > falsified their reports in order to be paid double the earnings
                  > through a fellow conspirator. Some firms chose to limit the areas
                  > of coverage to preclude such fraud. Other firms have opened up
                  > their territories to all interested, which may have caused too much
                  > coverage. Our firm employs a check and balance procedure to prevent
                  > fraud. Moreover, because of this procedure, we have paid bounties
                  > to more than one investigator who made the same hit on the same
                  > pirate. Therefore, our "opportunity pool" is well managed.
                  >
                  > ------
                  >
                  > Summary:
                  >
                  > In all fairness, we respectfully request the readers of your group
                  > to refrain from assuming facts based on opinion. Our participation
                  > with your group will remain, as it has always been, that of an
                  > invited guest. We will conduct ourselves with the utmost respect to
                  > you, the list owner, and to your members - regardless of what they
                  > may post in return.
                  >
                  > For those who are interested in interacting with seasoned
                  > professionals who have made consistent money with our firm, we
                  > invite you to contact our office directly.
                  >
                  > Respectfully,
                  >
                  > William Marshall
                  > Attorney Services
                  > National Office - Western States
                  > (406) 837-4432
                  >
                  > Office Hours:
                  > Monday through Friday
                  > 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Mountain Time
                  >
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                  > <p><hr></p>
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                  --
                  Tina Elkins, LPI

                  T.A.M.A. Investigations, Inc.
                  Agency License #1807
                  P.O. Box 1064
                  Snellville, GA 30078

                  Office: 770-682-4376
                  Fax: 770-682-0052
                  E-mail: tamainv@...
                  http://www.ga-pi.com

                  AOL Instant Messenger: tamainv2

                  Associations: GAPPI, IPAG, NAIS, USPSA, ACI, IWWA

                  This e-mail communication is not intended as and should not be
                  interpreted as legal advice or a legal opinion. Do not act or
                  rely upon the information in this communication without seeking the
                  advice of an attorney. All information in this email
                  is copyrighted as of the writing of the material.
                • Rus B. Robison
                  Thanks, Tina, I am putting you on the greatest list with Sue and Vicki. Rus ... From: Tina Elkins [mailto:tamainv@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 4, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks, Tina,

                    I am putting you on the "greatest" list with Sue and Vicki.

                    Rus

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Tina Elkins [mailto:tamainv@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:52 AM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Hello group "Moderator Question"


                    Doing these fights is a WASTE of a PI's time. You do not make money
                    unless you are paid hourly. If the company is not willing to pay an
                    hourly rate don't do it.

                    Sometimes these companies, accidentally (so they say), assign more than
                    one investigator to an area.

                    IF YOU DON'T GET PAID HOURLY, don't do IT. You are wasting your time,
                    if you don't have anything better to do, consider working on your
                    marketing, to increase your work load.

                    Tina Elkins



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Leif
                    Hello, I am still seeking articles to put up at www.infoguys.com I have had one offer and was hoping for more. The one I got was great I would like to give the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 10, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello, I am still seeking articles to put up at www.infoguys.com I
                      have had one offer and was hoping for more. The one I got was great I
                      would like to give the person credit BUT they have asked that I not
                      so great job you know who you are. Feel free to contact me with ideas
                      short stories of surveillance, the worst apprentice you ever had. A
                      bad day on the road (or in the office) generally information that I
                      can put up at www.infoguys.com (HMM information at www.infoguys.com
                      what a concept) Thanks
                      leif@...
                      www.infoguys.com
                      860.628.2075
                      The Spy Shop
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