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Re: ISPLA News: TLO $109M Liabilities

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  • RickyG
    I predicted an event such as this would occur with TLO a month ago, on another group. Now that group no longer wants to discuss TLO since back then everyone
    Message 1 of 7 , May 10, 2013
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      I predicted an event such as this would occur with TLO a month ago, on another group. Now that group no longer wants to discuss TLO since back then everyone believed that what they were seeing at TLO were just "hiccups" due to their direct data providers wanting stronger agreements in place. Now the people on that group (or at least the ones that are not complete idiots), are starting to see the same writing on the wall that I saw a month ago.

      After one of the people in our industry that is known for getting the inside scoop on these issues, interviewed TLO he reported back. TLO gave him what I call "Feel Good BS", and spoke to him about how strong and stable they are, and how well they are doing. This man reported back to us all by quoting what TLO had told him, Below is an excerpt from my post on another group in response to what TLO told this man:

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      "Does anyone here actually believe that a company the size of TLO is going let the public know if it is failing or getting ready to shut down just because someone in management is asked? Companies like TLO do not let the public know about it's failings or intentions unless they have to, or unless they develop a well timed press release that allows them to maximize profits by not panicking their customers, until the last possible minute. What they do NOT do is tell anyone interviewing them that they are failing, and that they predict that they will be closed within a year, so that their customers can start "jumping ship" and looking for a more stable provider. The point here is this, we are not going to know if TLO is having critical problems that could close their doors until they want us to know. And perhaps they are doing just fine?"

      From RickyG Thu Apr, 11 2013 14:04:25
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      My thoughts are below:

      To me... A large company like TLO filing bankruptcy IS A PROBLEM....

      Perhaps nobody knows this? But a well organized corporation does not have to file bankruptcy when the CEO dies............

      Bankruptcy is filed because one can not manage their debt load with their current income and can not project that their income is going to increase enough to in the future..

      What you should be worried about is what is going to happen next......

      All I can say is; I am glad I don't rely on them for data services..

      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. & Thoth Data Systems
      Agency License Number: 2011001124

      Director of Operations: Ricky Gurley
      Private Investigator License Number: 2011001072

      Mailing Address: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
      Office Address: 1 E. Broadway Suite Z, Columbia, MO. 65203
      Direct Office Number: (573) 234-6876
      Office Phone: (573) 234-4647 Ext. 110
      Cell Phone: (573) 529-4476
      Company Toll Free Phone: (877) 571-7486
      Personal Toll Free Phone: (888) 571-0958
      Toll Free Fax: (877) 795-9800
      EMERGENCY LINE: (573) 234-4871

      RMRI, Inc. Website
      (1) http://www.rmriinc.com


      RMRI, Inc. Blog
      (1) http://rmriincblog.com/

      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Psarouthakis" <peter@...> wrote:

      > Details on the recent TLO chapter 11 bankruptcy disclose $109M debt.

      > According to a May 9 article by Paul Brinkman, the South Florida Business
      > Journal identified bankruptcy filings, which identified the following TLO
      > owners and creditors:

      > The largest claim in the bankruptcy is from Technology Investors Inc., which
      > owns 31.8 percent of TLO, at $46 million.
      >
      > Litigation from a shareholder and former TLO officer, William H. Price
      > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
      > sults?q=William%20H.%20Price> , is listed as a disputed claim of $30
      > million.

      > Other owners include, Ole Poulsen
      > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
      > sults?q=Ole%20Poulsen> , Boca Raton, 9.7 percent; William Price, Bonita
      > Springs, 13.8 percent; Jules Kroll
      > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
      > sults?q=Jules%20Kroll> , Rye, N.Y., 5.7 percent; Tom Glocer
      > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
      > sults?q=Tom%20Glocer> , New York, N.Y., 5.7 percent.
      >
      > Kroll's name is famous for a company of the same name that offers
      > investigative services for business. The business was acquired in 2010 by
      > Altegrity Inc. Glocer is the former CEO of Thomson Reuters and is on the
      > board of Merck (NYSE: MRK). Polson was also TLO's chief technology officer.

      > Wells Fargo Bank also holds debt related to bank accounts.

      > TLO subscribers should read the full article at:

      > http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/tlo-cites-109m-liabilit
      > ies-in-chapter.html?page=all

      > Bruce Hulme
      >
      > ISPLA Director of Government Affairs
      >
      > www.ISPLA.org <http://www.ispla.org/>
    • Terry Skipmax
      I know for a fact that some of the data contracts in place with Hank were not honored after his death, and the predecessors have essentially stolen the data
      Message 2 of 7 , May 10, 2013
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        I know for a fact that some of the data contracts in place with Hank were not honored after his death, and the predecessors have essentially stolen the data sets from legitimate contracts and have not paid for them.

        this practice will continue and data providers to TLO will eventually require pre-payment for the data sets and updates, which they will not do......

        Get your fresh data now.. www.skipmax.com no monthly fee.....

        Terry Sweet
        877-531-3282
        National Data Research
        DBA - SkipMax
        Terry@...

        From: RickyG
        Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:25 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: ISPLA News: TLO $109M Liabilities


        I predicted an event such as this would occur with TLO a month ago, on another group. Now that group no longer wants to discuss TLO since back then everyone believed that what they were seeing at TLO were just "hiccups" due to their direct data providers wanting stronger agreements in place. Now the people on that group (or at least the ones that are not complete idiots), are starting to see the same writing on the wall that I saw a month ago.

        After one of the people in our industry that is known for getting the inside scoop on these issues, interviewed TLO he reported back. TLO gave him what I call "Feel Good BS", and spoke to him about how strong and stable they are, and how well they are doing. This man reported back to us all by quoting what TLO had told him, Below is an excerpt from my post on another group in response to what TLO told this man:

        ----------------------------------------------------------
        "Does anyone here actually believe that a company the size of TLO is going let the public know if it is failing or getting ready to shut down just because someone in management is asked? Companies like TLO do not let the public know about it's failings or intentions unless they have to, or unless they develop a well timed press release that allows them to maximize profits by not panicking their customers, until the last possible minute. What they do NOT do is tell anyone interviewing them that they are failing, and that they predict that they will be closed within a year, so that their customers can start "jumping ship" and looking for a more stable provider. The point here is this, we are not going to know if TLO is having critical problems that could close their doors until they want us to know. And perhaps they are doing just fine?"

        From RickyG Thu Apr, 11 2013 14:04:25
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        My thoughts are below:

        To me... A large company like TLO filing bankruptcy IS A PROBLEM....

        Perhaps nobody knows this? But a well organized corporation does not have to file bankruptcy when the CEO dies............

        Bankruptcy is filed because one can not manage their debt load with their current income and can not project that their income is going to increase enough to in the future..

        What you should be worried about is what is going to happen next......

        All I can say is; I am glad I don't rely on them for data services..

        Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. & Thoth Data Systems
        Agency License Number: 2011001124

        Director of Operations: Ricky Gurley
        Private Investigator License Number: 2011001072

        Mailing Address: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
        Office Address: 1 E. Broadway Suite Z, Columbia, MO. 65203
        Direct Office Number: (573) 234-6876
        Office Phone: (573) 234-4647 Ext. 110
        Cell Phone: (573) 529-4476
        Company Toll Free Phone: (877) 571-7486
        Personal Toll Free Phone: (888) 571-0958
        Toll Free Fax: (877) 795-9800
        EMERGENCY LINE: (573) 234-4871

        RMRI, Inc. Website
        (1) http://www.rmriinc.com

        RMRI, Inc. Blog
        (1) http://rmriincblog.com/

        --- In mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com, "Peter Psarouthakis" <peter@...> wrote:

        > Details on the recent TLO chapter 11 bankruptcy disclose $109M debt.

        > According to a May 9 article by Paul Brinkman, the South Florida Business
        > Journal identified bankruptcy filings, which identified the following TLO
        > owners and creditors:

        > The largest claim in the bankruptcy is from Technology Investors Inc., which
        > owns 31.8 percent of TLO, at $46 million.
        >
        > Litigation from a shareholder and former TLO officer, William H. Price
        > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
        > sults?q=William%20H.%20Price> , is listed as a disputed claim of $30
        > million.

        > Other owners include, Ole Poulsen
        > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
        > sults?q=Ole%20Poulsen> , Boca Raton, 9.7 percent; William Price, Bonita
        > Springs, 13.8 percent; Jules Kroll
        > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
        > sults?q=Jules%20Kroll> , Rye, N.Y., 5.7 percent; Tom Glocer
        > <http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/southflorida/search/re
        > sults?q=Tom%20Glocer> , New York, N.Y., 5.7 percent.
        >
        > Kroll's name is famous for a company of the same name that offers
        > investigative services for business. The business was acquired in 2010 by
        > Altegrity Inc. Glocer is the former CEO of Thomson Reuters and is on the
        > board of Merck (NYSE: MRK). Polson was also TLO's chief technology officer.

        > Wells Fargo Bank also holds debt related to bank accounts.

        > TLO subscribers should read the full article at:

        > http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/2013/05/tlo-cites-109m-liabilit
        > ies-in-chapter.html?page=all

        > Bruce Hulme
        >
        > ISPLA Director of Government Affairs
        >
        > www.ISPLA.org <http://www.ispla.org/>





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Hrodey
        ... * *Bankruptcies come and bankruptcies go. Will TLO survive or will they become history? Stay tuned. Just because they have filed for reorganization does
        Message 3 of 7 , May 10, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          On 5/10/2013 11:25 AM, RickyG wrote:
          > I predicted an event such as this would occur with TLO a month ago, on another group. Now that group no longer wants to discuss TLO since back then everyone believed that what they were seeing at TLO were just "hiccups" due to their direct data providers wanting stronger agreements in place. Now the people on that group (or at least the ones that are not complete idiots), are starting to see the same writing on the wall that I saw a month ago.
          >
          > After one of the people in our industry that is known for getting the inside scoop on these issues, interviewed TLO he reported back. TLO gave him what I call "Feel Good BS", and spoke to him about how strong and stable they are, and how well they are doing. This man reported back to us all by quoting what TLO had told him, Below is an excerpt from my post on another group in response to what TLO told this man:
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > "Does anyone here actually believe that a company the size of TLO is going let the public know if it is failing or getting ready to shut down just because someone in management is asked? Companies like TLO do not let the public know about it's failings or intentions unless they have to, or unless they develop a well timed press release that allows them to maximize profits by not panicking their customers, until the last possible minute. What they do NOT do is tell anyone interviewing them that they are failing, and that they predict that they will be closed within a year, so that their customers can start "jumping ship" and looking for a more stable provider. The point here is this, we are not going to know if TLO is having critical problems that could close their doors until they want us to know. And perhaps they are doing just fine?"
          >
          > >From RickyG Thu Apr, 11 2013 14:04:25
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > My thoughts are below:
          >
          > To me... A large company like TLO filing bankruptcy IS A PROBLEM....
          >
          > Perhaps nobody knows this? But a well organized corporation does not have to file bankruptcy when the CEO dies............
          >
          > Bankruptcy is filed because one can not manage their debt load with their current income and can not project that their income is going to increase enough to in the future..
          >
          > What you should be worried about is what is going to happen next......
          >
          > All I can say is; I am glad I don't rely on them for data services..
          *
          *Bankruptcies come and bankruptcies go. Will TLO survive or will they
          become history? Stay tuned.

          Just because they have filed for reorganization does not mean that it's
          time to stick a fork in them. I can name a lot of businesses that have
          sought bankruptcy protection and are now just vague memories. Others
          are still around. Anybody ever hear of Chrysler?<g>

          Until and unless TLO's data turns to crap and/or they hold out their
          hands and tell us we have to by a one year subscription in order to
          access the product, I'm standing with them.

          As for relying on them for data services... Guess we need to qualify a
          statement like that, Rick. I do RELY on TLO but they are not my sole
          supplier. Like you, I have access to quite a number of database
          providers and sources and I use them all as the case requires. Anyone
          who relies SOLELY on TLO or any other single source.... Well, they are
          idiots and just waiting for a call from Charles Darwin asking them to
          join him in the great beyond.<g>

          It costs us nothing to ride this one out. Bailing from TLO will
          certainly not help their situation, staying with them until such time as
          their product deteriorates does not harm us.
          ***
          *
          --
          Enjoy,

          /Bob/
          ________________________________________________________________
          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, & P.A.W.L.I.
          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          email: inquiry@... or rth@...
          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • RickyG
          Please forgive me Bob, I don t know how to snip this post in such a way that the reader wont miss some information that they may need if they are just coming
          Message 4 of 7 , May 10, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Please forgive me Bob, I don't know how to snip this post in such a way that the reader wont miss some information that they may need if they are just coming in and decide to just read this post. I know you like "snipped for relevance" posts. LOL.

            I don't disagree with anything you wrote in your post. I'd add that it is people like you that stay with companies that are showing signs of having problems that allow these companies to endure and succeed. If TLO makes it through, I hope they are as loyal to you as you are to them.

            Bankruptcy is not a sign of "definite death to come", but it is problematic. It does cause people to lose faith in the company that is filing. It can cause investors to rethink or pull out altogether. It can cause customers to "jump ship". And overall, it just puts a business under a certain cloud that just does not bode well with potential investors and customers.

            You are absolutely correct as a customer, it costs nothing to ride it out and see where it goes. And as the intelligent PI that you are, if they shut down tomorrow it would not hurt you one bit because you have other data providers that you can use for a "back-up" for lack of a better word. But it is going to be pretty bad for the idiots that rely solely on TLO if TLO can not whither this storm. By the way, have you ever asked yourself if smart people should be so mean to idiots; I mean do you really think the idiots can help being idiots?

            Shoot me a private email Bob, and I'll recommend a database that I use that I really like. It does cost a bit more than the rest, but the information on it and the options for it are pretty accurate, up-to-date and impressive. You may have already heard of them or even be using them, too.

            Take care, Bob.


            Rick.

            Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. & Thoth Data Systems
            Agency License Number: 2011001124

            Director of Operations: Ricky Gurley
            Private Investigator License Number: 2011001072

            Mailing Address: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
            Office Address: 1 E. Broadway Suite Z, Columbia, MO. 65203
            Direct Office Number: (573) 234-6876
            Office Phone: (573) 234-4647 Ext. 110
            Cell Phone: (573) 529-4476
            Company Toll Free Phone: (877) 571-7486
            Personal Toll Free Phone: (888) 571-0958
            Toll Free Fax: (877) 795-9800
            EMERGENCY LINE: (573) 234-4871

            RMRI, Inc. Website
            (1) http://www.rmriinc.com


            RMRI, Inc. Blog
            (1) http://rmriincblog.com/



            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hrodey <rth@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 5/10/2013 11:25 AM, RickyG wrote:
            > > I predicted an event such as this would occur with TLO a month ago, on another group. Now that group no longer wants to discuss TLO since back then everyone believed that what they were seeing at TLO were just "hiccups" due to their direct data providers wanting stronger agreements in place. Now the people on that group (or at least the ones that are not complete idiots), are starting to see the same writing on the wall that I saw a month ago.
            > >
            > > After one of the people in our industry that is known for getting the inside scoop on these issues, interviewed TLO he reported back. TLO gave him what I call "Feel Good BS", and spoke to him about how strong and stable they are, and how well they are doing. This man reported back to us all by quoting what TLO had told him, Below is an excerpt from my post on another group in response to what TLO told this man:
            > >
            > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > "Does anyone here actually believe that a company the size of TLO is going let the public know if it is failing or getting ready to shut down just because someone in management is asked? Companies like TLO do not let the public know about it's failings or intentions unless they have to, or unless they develop a well timed press release that allows them to maximize profits by not panicking their customers, until the last possible minute. What they do NOT do is tell anyone interviewing them that they are failing, and that they predict that they will be closed within a year, so that their customers can start "jumping ship" and looking for a more stable provider. The point here is this, we are not going to know if TLO is having critical problems that could close their doors until they want us to know. And perhaps they are doing just fine?"
            > >
            > > >From RickyG Thu Apr, 11 2013 14:04:25
            > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > My thoughts are below:
            > >
            > > To me... A large company like TLO filing bankruptcy IS A PROBLEM....
            > >
            > > Perhaps nobody knows this? But a well organized corporation does not have to file bankruptcy when the CEO dies............
            > >
            > > Bankruptcy is filed because one can not manage their debt load with their current income and can not project that their income is going to increase enough to in the future..
            > >
            > > What you should be worried about is what is going to happen next......
            > >
            > > All I can say is; I am glad I don't rely on them for data services..
            > *
            > *Bankruptcies come and bankruptcies go. Will TLO survive or will they
            > become history? Stay tuned.
            >
            > Just because they have filed for reorganization does not mean that it's
            > time to stick a fork in them. I can name a lot of businesses that have
            > sought bankruptcy protection and are now just vague memories. Others
            > are still around. Anybody ever hear of Chrysler?<g>
            >
            > Until and unless TLO's data turns to crap and/or they hold out their
            > hands and tell us we have to by a one year subscription in order to
            > access the product, I'm standing with them.
            >
            > As for relying on them for data services... Guess we need to qualify a
            > statement like that, Rick. I do RELY on TLO but they are not my sole
            > supplier. Like you, I have access to quite a number of database
            > providers and sources and I use them all as the case requires. Anyone
            > who relies SOLELY on TLO or any other single source.... Well, they are
            > idiots and just waiting for a call from Charles Darwin asking them to
            > join him in the great beyond.<g>
            >
            > It costs us nothing to ride this one out. Bailing from TLO will
            > certainly not help their situation, staying with them until such time as
            > their product deteriorates does not harm us.
            > ***
            > *
            > --
            > Enjoy,
            >
            > /Bob/
            > ________________________________________________________________
            > Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            > Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            > Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, & P.A.W.L.I.
            > Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            > email: inquiry@... or rth@...
            > Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Bob Hrodey
            ... And I don t disagree with anything you re posting either. It s all true. My point was that as users or consumers we really need to plot our actions
            Message 5 of 7 , May 10, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              On 5/10/2013 12:01 PM, RickyG wrote:
              > Please forgive me Bob, I don't know how to snip this post in such a way that the reader wont miss some information that they may need if they are just coming in and decide to just read this post. I know you like "snipped for relevance" posts. LOL.
              >
              > I don't disagree with anything you wrote in your post. I'd add that it is people like you that stay with companies that are showing signs of having problems that allow these companies to endure and succeed. If TLO makes it through, I hope they are as loyal to you as you are to them.
              >
              > Bankruptcy is not a sign of "definite death to come", but it is problematic. It does cause people to lose faith in the company that is filing. It can cause investors to rethink or pull out altogether. It can cause customers to "jump ship". And overall, it just puts a business under a certain cloud that just does not bode well with potential investors and customers.

              And I don't disagree with anything you're posting either. It's all
              true. My point was that as "users" or "consumers" we really need to
              plot our actions based not on the herd mentality or thinking like
              suppliers or investors but simply as consumers who have access to a good
              product (so far). As an investor, I'd be a lot more concerned with the
              announcement that I am as a consumer which is, quite frankly, not at
              all. TLO will survive or TLO will fail. Nothing that I do or say will
              alter their course. What will be will be. (Cue Doris Day, stage left<g>)

              I'm just pointing out that in our case, while sometimes abandoning a
              sinking ship is a wise move, it makes no more sense here than it would
              if you were standing on the tenth floor of a concrete building and told
              that a waste basket was on fire on the ninth floor and that the fire
              department was there putting it out. Wouldn't make much sense to jump
              out of that 10th floor window.



              >
              > You are absolutely correct as a customer, it costs nothing to ride it out and see where it goes. And as the intelligent PI that you are, if they shut down tomorrow it would not hurt you one bit because you have other data providers that you can use for a "back-up" for lack of a better word. But it is going to be pretty bad for the idiots that rely solely on TLO if TLO can not whither this storm. By the way, have you ever asked yourself if smart people should be so mean to idiots; I mean do you really think the idiots can help being idiots?

              As the saying goes, "ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever."
              Idiots are idiots are idiots. They are doomed to be what they are and
              can be cured, I think, only by Darwin<g>

              --
              Enjoy,

              /Bob/
              ________________________________________________________________
              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, & P.A.W.L.I.
              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
              email: inquiry@... or rth@...
              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob Hrodey
              ... And the mystery guest is....?:-D -- Enjoy, /Bob/ ________________________________________________________________ Hrodey & Associates Established
              Message 6 of 7 , May 10, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                On 5/10/2013 12:01 PM, RickyG wrote:

                > Shoot me a private email Bob, and I'll recommend a database that I use that I really like. It does cost a bit more than the rest, but the information on it and the options for it are pretty accurate, up-to-date and impressive. You may have already heard of them or even be using them, too.

                And the mystery guest is....?:-D


                --
                Enjoy,

                /Bob/
                ________________________________________________________________
                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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