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Sisenoritabonita - I believe you got the answers you purport to seek

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  • oracleintl@aol.com
    It seemed pretty clear from your prior post that you don t have the funds to hire professional help with this. Nevertheless, it sounded as if you needed
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 18, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      It seemed pretty clear from your prior post that you don't have the funds
      to hire professional help with this. Nevertheless, it sounded as if you
      needed help, and I have a lot of experience with these sorts of cases, so I
      sent you an email directly entitled Fraud In The Context of Divorce.

      In that email, on April 16, at 7:30 PM, I explained that the situation as
      you describe it is very believable to me, as I have had several cases much
      like this.

      I suggested to you that you are getting the cart before the horse in
      trying to seek recourse against the attorney who represented you - at this point.


      I explained that, in most cases, you first get the case reopened. For
      that, you need to find prima facie evidence of fraud.

      Once reopened, you find out what all the facts are and prove that you were
      defrauded. In other words, rather than proffer suspicions that your
      attorney was either bought off, or woefully incompetent, you develop enough
      information to go back and do the job correctly, which will establish whether
      you would have faired better had the attorney handled things differently.

      This is a critical component of any civil action. You must prove that the
      adverse party had a duty to do (or not do) something, the party failed to
      perform as required, and you suffered damages as a consequence.

      Suppose some super sleuth found your smoking gun -- letters retrieved from
      the trash evidencing correspondence between your attorney and your former
      husband, and a canceled check correlating to the pay off - so what? You
      might get him disbarred, but to what end?

      That does not prove that you were damaged financially.

      Instead, you look for evidence that there were undisclosed assets, or
      income not reported on the Asset Liability Spread Sheet and the Financial
      Affidavit. Mere, discrepancies won't do it - you must develop clear evidence of
      fraud. Unfortunately, this is much harder to do after your case is closed.

      If you are successful, that will allow you to reopen your case - which is
      important because you do not have third party compulsory process (subpoena
      power) until you do. Once you reopen your divorce case, you use subpoenas
      to do the job as it should have been done to begin with.

      If you make the case that the former husband defrauded you, you get that
      corrected, and then you go after the attorney who should have developed that
      information from the beginning.

      I am very fortunate, I make a very good living doing what I do, and I often
      endeavor to offer people who need, and ask for it, the benefit of my
      knowledge, training and experience for whatever it happens to be worth.

      I would have thought that you would have replied to that email.


      Good Luck

      Bill




      In a message dated 4/18/2011 3:07:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      sisenoritabonita@... writes:






      Sorry guys I never meant to cause such a frivolous uproar. I am was not
      being deceptive but didn't want to disclose who I am or where do to the
      current lawsuit going on. I was only looking for insight into whether I had
      tunnel vision. I already hired one PI who took me for $5000.00 I couldn't
      afford and found less than I did using the web. I was looking for professional
      answers from people involved in these types of things to determine whether to
      pursue it further. I don't have another $5000.00 to throw to the wind if
      no one has any idea how to prove it. Unfortunately I found none here. But I
      cast my lines everywhere. I only need to find one answer.
      Oh, to clarify, it is not the attorney I know has been paid off in the
      past. It is my ex whom I know has a past of paying off whomever he needs too.
      And I'm not from Orlando. FL has more cities than that.
      --- In _infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com_
      (mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com) , "yp_angelina_orlando_200" <sisenoritabonita@...> wrote:
      >
      > First be clear I'm not a bitter ex wanting revenge. I have a malpractice
      attorney, am suing former divorce attorney but because of events have
      strong reasons to believe he was paid off by ex (something he has done often in
      the past) or threatened.
      >
      > Anyone have skills, knowledge, know where to look or can refer someone
      able to prove this? Malpractice attorney amazed at what he did and didn't
      do. Had a reputation as excellent family lawyer. No problem proving
      malpractice but if suspicions correct want it exposed. As experts would also
      appreciate your feedback regarding if there isn't something fishy in Denmark or do
      you think I'm on the wrong path..
      >
      > Couple of many examples:
      >
      > Didn't look at, copy, discuss second set of books found, stolen from
      home days after I took them to him. Froze like deer in headlights when told
      what I had.
      > Never shown letter from ex's attorney with copies of emails obtained
      from monitoring my computer and documents stolen from my home allowing to
      continue. Said ex had right to do this when discovered later.
      > Ex tried strangling, leaving bruises around throat, arms. Recommended
      using to get him to move from home, not to call police or take pictures,
      calling it a fuss in brief letter to his attorney.
      > No discovery on LLC I found not listed on affidavit or 2 listed without
      values.
      > Went to mediation before receiving results from 4 banks supeoned.
      > Recommended against doing depositions though known undisclosed assets.
      Canceled first scheduled claiming swine flu.
      > Did not show or tell me of ex's amended affidavit claiming almost
      everything as his non-marital property filed after settlement reached day of
      mediation. Discovered when malpractice attorney obtained copies from
      courthouse. Questioned said it was handed me at mediation, Not true.
      > Went to mediation with no financials, bank balances, liabilities for
      business, main asset. Husband removed 3 weeks prior, leaving no income for my
      living. Did nothing. Pushed me to accept business without them and the home
      starting foreclosure assuring everything had to be made current and was in
      contract as I signed it.
      > Didn't address any bank accounts ex removed all funds from allowed him
      to keep all cash.
      > After settlement worked frantically assuring I gave everything agreed
      to. Tried to get me to give additional not agreed to. Nothing to obtain my
      settlement. Would look better to judge in contempt and had me making
      spreadsheets for bills, stolen equipment, unreturned business income. Later said
      would cost $8000.00 for forensic accountant, fees for both attorneys if lost,
      recommended against. Knew left with negative bank balance, $100,000 in
      undisclosed, unpaid bills, home in foreclosure. Denied saying bills had to be
      current or anything taken returned. Wasn't in contract.
      > Ex took millions. I received home in foreclosure, the business the bank
      called same week threatening foreclosure for mortgages not paid, 3 bank
      accounts totaling $176.00 overdrawn and additional $80,000 in unpaid bills and
      building violations uncorrected and obligated to pay $24,000 in taxes owed
      on husband's settlement. He didn't ask for any alimony. His advice? Move
      on with life.
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • RickyG
      I also want to add a few points here; Angelina ? Your post did seem to make a few things pretty clear. It would seem from reading your first post on this
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 18, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I also want to add a few points here; "Angelina"?

        Your post did seem to make a few things pretty clear. It would seem from reading your first post on this particular thread that times may be hard for you right now. So I think you made an intelligent decision to come onto this group and seek advice. I would like to caution you a little on your posts; if I may?. While I understand that sometimes one may want to be careful with regard to mentioning specific details about a case that they are a participant in; you will encounter some skepticism on this group if you do not identify yourself. Private Investigators learn to be inquisitive after they have been in the business long enough; and rightfully so.

        I did not try to trace your post. I saw no need to make any inquiries about you at all based on your initial post and I still don't. It was obvious that you are in Florida. I listed the city as Orlando simply because of your screen name: "yp_angelina_orlando_200" although I thought that "Orlando" could be your last name I also thought the likelihood was high that Orlando is where you are in Florida.

        There are some EXCELLENT Private Investigators on this group. Bill Branscum is one of them; you could not get better advice from a better Private Investigator than Bill Branscum. If I were you I'd take the opportunity to communicate with him. His advice is worth a whole lot more than what he is offering it to you for.

        I don't know every single Private Investigator on this group; but I do have my own personal idea of who I'd listen to for Private Investigator related advice. Sue Sarkis is a lady that I do respect, and she is a top notch Private Investigator, she was also doing P.I. work when a lot of us were wearing pajamas with rubber feet in them. Sue knows that I look up to her and respect her; and she also knows that I like to get her "riled up" every now and again. One of the reasons for that is because Sue is not a "delicate flower"; she is "thick skinned" and does not take a whole lot personally. And if she offers you some advice or your post inspires a discussion on this group; I'd listen to what she has to say also.

        Chuck Chambers and Bob Hrodey are also two other Private Investigators on this group that I'd listen to if they offer advice. These are all "Old School Private Investigators" that have been there and done that. They KNOW what is realistic in this business and what is B.S.. They are actually the only four P.I.'s on this group that I listen to and have much respect for. I am sure there are other great P.I.'s here also; I have just found in my experience that these four P.I.'s are a sure bet as being competent Private Investigators that offer effective services to their clients.

        On the other end of the spectrum there are quite a few "dipsticks" in this business too. You should be very careful of this category of P.I.; you will get "crappy" advice from them that will not benefit you, you will waste money on them, and often enough you will find that they will easily "turn on you". It really does not take much to spot these P.I.'s. It seems that one of them was already involved in this particular thread........

        I wish you lots of luck with whatever you are trying to do. If I were you I'd reach out to Bill Branscum since he seems to have extended an invitation for you to do so.

        Take care.




        Ricky Gurley.


        --
        Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. & Thoth Data Systems
        Agency License Number: 2011001124
        Private Investigator License Number: 2011001072

        Mailing Address: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
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        http://www.rmriincblog.com


        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, oracleintl@... wrote:
        >
        > It seemed pretty clear from your prior post that you don't have the funds
        > to hire professional help with this. Nevertheless, it sounded as if you
        > needed help, and I have a lot of experience with these sorts of cases, so I
        > sent you an email directly entitled Fraud In The Context of Divorce.
        >
        > In that email, on April 16, at 7:30 PM, I explained that the situation as
        > you describe it is very believable to me, as I have had several cases much
        > like this.
        >
        > I suggested to you that you are getting the cart before the horse in
        > trying to seek recourse against the attorney who represented you - at this point.
        >
        >
        > I explained that, in most cases, you first get the case reopened. For
        > that, you need to find prima facie evidence of fraud.
        >
        > Once reopened, you find out what all the facts are and prove that you were
        > defrauded. In other words, rather than proffer suspicions that your
        > attorney was either bought off, or woefully incompetent, you develop enough
        > information to go back and do the job correctly, which will establish whether
        > you would have faired better had the attorney handled things differently.
        >
        > This is a critical component of any civil action. You must prove that the
        > adverse party had a duty to do (or not do) something, the party failed to
        > perform as required, and you suffered damages as a consequence.
        >
        > Suppose some super sleuth found your smoking gun -- letters retrieved from
        > the trash evidencing correspondence between your attorney and your former
        > husband, and a canceled check correlating to the pay off - so what? You
        > might get him disbarred, but to what end?
        >
        > That does not prove that you were damaged financially.
        >
        > Instead, you look for evidence that there were undisclosed assets, or
        > income not reported on the Asset Liability Spread Sheet and the Financial
        > Affidavit. Mere, discrepancies won't do it - you must develop clear evidence of
        > fraud. Unfortunately, this is much harder to do after your case is closed.
        >
        > If you are successful, that will allow you to reopen your case - which is
        > important because you do not have third party compulsory process (subpoena
        > power) until you do. Once you reopen your divorce case, you use subpoenas
        > to do the job as it should have been done to begin with.
        >
        > If you make the case that the former husband defrauded you, you get that
        > corrected, and then you go after the attorney who should have developed that
        > information from the beginning.
        >
        > I am very fortunate, I make a very good living doing what I do, and I often
        > endeavor to offer people who need, and ask for it, the benefit of my
        > knowledge, training and experience for whatever it happens to be worth.
        >
        > I would have thought that you would have replied to that email.
        >
        >
        > Good Luck
        >
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 4/18/2011 3:07:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > sisenoritabonita@... writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Sorry guys I never meant to cause such a frivolous uproar. I am was not
        > being deceptive but didn't want to disclose who I am or where do to the
        > current lawsuit going on. I was only looking for insight into whether I had
        > tunnel vision. I already hired one PI who took me for $5000.00 I couldn't
        > afford and found less than I did using the web. I was looking for professional
        > answers from people involved in these types of things to determine whether to
        > pursue it further. I don't have another $5000.00 to throw to the wind if
        > no one has any idea how to prove it. Unfortunately I found none here. But I
        > cast my lines everywhere. I only need to find one answer.
        > Oh, to clarify, it is not the attorney I know has been paid off in the
        > past. It is my ex whom I know has a past of paying off whomever he needs too.
        > And I'm not from Orlando. FL has more cities than that.
        > --- In _infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com_
        > (mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com) , "yp_angelina_orlando_200" <sisenoritabonita@> wrote:
        > >
        > > First be clear I'm not a bitter ex wanting revenge. I have a malpractice
        > attorney, am suing former divorce attorney but because of events have
        > strong reasons to believe he was paid off by ex (something he has done often in
        > the past) or threatened.
        > >
        > > Anyone have skills, knowledge, know where to look or can refer someone
        > able to prove this? Malpractice attorney amazed at what he did and didn't
        > do. Had a reputation as excellent family lawyer. No problem proving
        > malpractice but if suspicions correct want it exposed. As experts would also
        > appreciate your feedback regarding if there isn't something fishy in Denmark or do
        > you think I'm on the wrong path..
        > >
        > > Couple of many examples:
        > >
        > > Didn't look at, copy, discuss second set of books found, stolen from
        > home days after I took them to him. Froze like deer in headlights when told
        > what I had.
        > > Never shown letter from ex's attorney with copies of emails obtained
        > from monitoring my computer and documents stolen from my home allowing to
        > continue. Said ex had right to do this when discovered later.
        > > Ex tried strangling, leaving bruises around throat, arms. Recommended
        > using to get him to move from home, not to call police or take pictures,
        > calling it a fuss in brief letter to his attorney.
        > > No discovery on LLC I found not listed on affidavit or 2 listed without
        > values.
        > > Went to mediation before receiving results from 4 banks supeoned.
        > > Recommended against doing depositions though known undisclosed assets.
        > Canceled first scheduled claiming swine flu.
        > > Did not show or tell me of ex's amended affidavit claiming almost
        > everything as his non-marital property filed after settlement reached day of
        > mediation. Discovered when malpractice attorney obtained copies from
        > courthouse. Questioned said it was handed me at mediation, Not true.
        > > Went to mediation with no financials, bank balances, liabilities for
        > business, main asset. Husband removed 3 weeks prior, leaving no income for my
        > living. Did nothing. Pushed me to accept business without them and the home
        > starting foreclosure assuring everything had to be made current and was in
        > contract as I signed it.
        > > Didn't address any bank accounts ex removed all funds from allowed him
        > to keep all cash.
        > > After settlement worked frantically assuring I gave everything agreed
        > to. Tried to get me to give additional not agreed to. Nothing to obtain my
        > settlement. Would look better to judge in contempt and had me making
        > spreadsheets for bills, stolen equipment, unreturned business income. Later said
        > would cost $8000.00 for forensic accountant, fees for both attorneys if lost,
        > recommended against. Knew left with negative bank balance, $100,000 in
        > undisclosed, unpaid bills, home in foreclosure. Denied saying bills had to be
        > current or anything taken returned. Wasn't in contract.
        > > Ex took millions. I received home in foreclosure, the business the bank
        > called same week threatening foreclosure for mortgages not paid, 3 bank
        > accounts totaling $176.00 overdrawn and additional $80,000 in unpaid bills and
        > building violations uncorrected and obligated to pay $24,000 in taxes owed
        > on husband's settlement. He didn't ask for any alimony. His advice? Move
        > on with life.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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