Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [infoguys-list] Now this upsets me regardless of their reasoning !!!!

Expand Messages
  • John David Baroski
    Comedian Steve Martin used to tell people that if they got arrested for murder to just tell the judge that they forgot murder was against the law. And then
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 29, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Comedian Steve Martin used to tell people that if they got arrested for murder to just tell the judge that they forgot murder was against the law. And then say,” Well excuuuuuuse me! The fact that the excuse was so ridiculous is what made the joke funny back then. It wouldn’t be as funny now, knowing that some of these judges would see it as a valid defense and let the murderer go free.


      Baroski & Associates, Inc

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
      Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:55 PM
      To: NCISSNEWS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] Now this upsets me regardless of their reasoning !!!!

      And they worry about investigators having access !!!!
      Court allows use of fake Social Security Number
      Reverses impersonation conviction, says name actually was identification


      Posted: October 28, 2010
      8:46 pm Eastern

      The Colorado Supreme Court has reversed the conviction of a man who
      admitted using someone else's Social Security number to obtain a loan, concluding
      that the defendant wasn't really trying to assume a false identity.

      The opinion was written by Michael Bender, who was joined by Mary
      Mullarkey, Gregory Hobbs and Alex Martinez. A strongly worded dissent by Nathan
      Coats was joined by Nancy Rice and Allison Eid.

      The case involved Felix Montes-Rodriguez, who was convicted of criminal
      impersonation for using another person's Social Security number on a loan
      application at an automobile dealership.

      The ID Theft Center warns on its website, "A dishonest person who has your
      Social Security number can use it to get other personal information about
      you. Identity thieves can use your number and your good credit to apply for
      more credit in your name. Then, they use the credit cards and do not pay
      the bills. You may not find out that someone is using your number until you
      are turned down for credit or you begin to get calls from unknown creditors
      demanding payment for items you never bought."

      Center Executiver Director Jay Foley said the court was overlooking the
      fact that there may be a multitude of people with the same name. The Social
      Security number is supposed to be the distinguishing characteristic.

      "By supply either a fraudulent Social Security number or somebody else's,
      I am, in fact, identifying myself as somebody other than who I am," he

      He said it was alarming that such a result would be coming from a state
      Supreme Court.

      The Social Security Administration suggests that while it cannot fix
      problems from thieves using stolen Social Security numbers, consumers must pay
      attention to the possible problems.

      "An identity thief might also use your Social Security number to file a
      tax return in order to receive a refund. If the thief files the tax return
      before you do, the IRS will believe you already filed and received your
      refund if eligible. If your Social Security number is stolen, another individual
      may use it to get a job. That person's employer would report income earned
      to the IRS using your Social Security number, making it appear that you did
      not report all of your income on your tax return."

      Bankrate.com suggests, "The more people who see it, the more susceptible
      you are to identity theft, where you are victimized by someone fraudulently
      using your name and credit report to steal money."

      In the Colorado case, the court's slim majority concluded that criminal
      impersonation is "when one assumes a false identity or a false capacity with
      the intent to unlawfully gain a benefit."

      While Montes-Rodriguez "admitted to using the false Social Security number
      … he argued that he did not assume a false identity or capacity under the
      statute because he applied for the loan using his proper name, birth date,
      address and other identifying information."

      A jury had convicted him and a lower appeals court affirmed the result.

      But Bender explained the facts of the case: Montes-Rodriguez used another
      person's Social Security number because the car dealership required a
      number to check credit-worthiness before approving a loan. The court did not
      explain why Montes-Rodriguez did not use his own number, or whether he even had

      But the opinion notes the defendant "impliedly asserted his power or
      fitness to obtain the loan, and his ability to work legally in this country, and
      thereby repay it."

      "Although Montes-Rodriguez may have lacked the practical capacity to
      obtain a loan through Hajek Chevrolet because they could not check his credit
      without a Social Security number, he did not lack the legal capacity to
      obtain a loan," Bender wrote.

      He ordered a judgment of acquittal entered.

      Coats, Rice and Eid, however, noted that the majority was "slicing,
      dicing, parsing, distinguishing, and generally over-analyzing one short and
      relatively self-explanatory phrase."

      "The defendant's deliberate misrepresentation of the single most unique
      and important piece of identifying data for credit-transaction purposes [is]
      precisely the kind of conduct meant to be proscribed as criminal," the
      dissent said.

      "By claiming another person's Social Security number in a credit
      transaction, as the defendant did in this case, a person necessarily identifies
      himself as the person with the credit history associated with that number," the
      opinion said.

      "Where the nature of the transaction is such that a false Social Security
      number is not merely incidental but is rather the single piece of
      identifying data upon which the fraud in question depends, it cannot be assessed as
      merely 'one of many pieces of identifying information," warned the dissent.

      "For the purposes of the fraudulent transaction at issue, it is clearly
      the assumption of a false or fictitious identity."

      L-R, Front: Gregory J.Hobbs, Jr., Mary Mullarkey, Alex J. Martinez. Back:
      Nathan B. Coats, Michael L. Bender, Nancy E. Rice, Allison Eid

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.