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RE: [infoguys-list] Not a good thing - SUE

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    I must confess I have not read the entire thread, so if this has been covered, please don t flame me into oblivion: The major difference being the color of
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 3 8:10 AM
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      I must confess I have not read the entire thread, so if this has been
      covered, please don't flame me into oblivion:

      The major difference being the color of office.
      The judge's argument is that the officials of the government, used the power
      of their office, to obtain actions beneficial to the government. The
      problem with the statute is that it assumes that the official doing the
      "extorting" is requesting money for themselves. In the bank case, the
      officials were attempting to force money into the bank, now in exchange they
      got special issued preferred stock, only available to the U.S. Government,
      which gave the Govt a stake in the banks.
      (sounds like the mob to me).
      I don't think it will ever go anywhere because I don't think we've got a law
      on the books that covers being reverse robbed. :)
      "Stick em up and take all our money"

      :)
      Brian


      _____

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
      Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:55 AM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Not a good thing - SUE




      In a message dated 4/3/2009 5:19:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      oracleintl@aol. <mailto:oracleintl%40aol.com> com writes:

      actually wrote that the distinction between extortion and blackmail is that
      extortion is a threat to do something that would otherwise be a lawful act,
      that was a completely ridiculous thing to say, and I defy you to find one
      single source anywhere that says anything like that.

      Bill -

      I do see a difference between 18 USC §§ 872 and 873 and I truly can see
      where he was coming from. Who knows, maybe my mind is just a stupid as his
      honor. One could only hope !!!

      Doesn't this support what he said regarding the matter that he was
      discussing?

      18 USC §872
      §872. Extortion by officers or employees of the United States
      Whoever, being an officer, or employee of the United States or any
      department or agency thereof, or representing himself to be or assuming to
      act as
      such, under color or pretense of office or employment commits or attempts an
      act
      of extortion, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
      three years, or both; but if the amount so extorted or demanded does not
      exceed
      $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one
      year, or both.

      18 USC §873
      §873. Blackmail
      Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not
      informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or
      receives
      any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or
      imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

      Sincerely yours,
      Sue
      ________________________
      Sue Sarkis
      Sarkis Detective Agency

      (est. 1976)
      PI 6564
      _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

      1346 Ethel Street
      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
      818-242-2505
      818-246-3001 FAX

      "one Nation under God" and "in GOD we TRUST"

      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
      a military veteran
      **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

      less. (http://food.
      <http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001>
      aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • oracleintl@aol.com
      Hi Sue, I am not sure the federal statutes would be the best place to look if you hope to find support for that argument since their is no federal extortion
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 3 8:29 AM
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        Hi Sue,
        I am not sure the federal statutes would be the best place to look if you
        hope to find support for that argument since their is no federal extortion
        statute per se, but if you see anything in these code sections that supports the
        contention that the difference between Extortion & Blackmail is that
        Extortion relates to a threat to do something that is otherwise lawful, you are doing
        better than I am.

        § 872. Extortion by officers or employees of the United States

        Whoever, being an officer, or employee of the United States or any
        department or agency thereof, or representing himself to be or assuming to act as
        such, under color or pretense of office or employment commits or attempts an act
        of extortion, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
        three years, or both; but if the amount so extorted or demanded does not exceed
        $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one
        year, or both.



        § 873. Blackmail


        Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not
        informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives
        any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or
        imprisoned not more than one year, or both.





        For those who may find the fact that there is no federal extortion statute
        confusing, the same applies to murder -- and for the same reason. Extortion
        is a state crime, as is murder, as well as most other crimes. It becomes a
        matter of federal jurisdiction when there is a federal connection such as is
        the case in Section 872 -- the extortion is by Officers of the United States,
        related to their office.

        There are numerous and various federal offenses connected to extortion, but
        in each case (the target is the President 871, the target is a foreign
        official 878, the demand is delivered by US mail 876, etc) there is some federal
        issue involved.

        If someone walks up to you in California and verbally communicates an
        extortionate threat, it is entirely possible that there is no federal offense
        involved - unless you pay them. While payment is not actually necessary to make
        the offense of extortion complete, there is a separate federal law against
        receiving the proceeds of extortion because that implicates commerce.

        I must, however, retract my prior statement to the effect that the author of
        that ridiculous assertion is a boob. I like boobs, and I have an undying
        fondness for many of the boobs with which it has been my privilege to become
        familiar, so I shall stick with "bonehead" instead.

        Bill







        In a message dated 4/3/2009 10:58:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        suesarkis@... writes:




        In a message dated 4/3/2009 5:19:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
        _oracleintl@..._ (mailto:oracleintl@...) writes:

        actually wrote that the distinction between extortion and blackmail is that
        extortion is a threat to do something that would otherwise be a lawful act,
        that was a completely ridiculous thing to say, and I defy you to find one
        single source anywhere that says anything like that.

        Bill -

        I do see a difference between 18 USC §§ 872 and 873 and I truly can see
        where he was coming from. Who knows, maybe my mind is just a stupid as his
        honor. One could only hope !!!

        Doesn't this support what he said regarding the matter that he was
        discussing?

        18 USC §872
        §872. Extortion by officers or employees of the United States
        Whoever, being an officer, or employee of the United States or any
        department or agency thereof, or representing himself to be or assuming to
        act as
        such, under color or pretense of office or employment commits or attempts an
        act
        of extortion, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
        three years, or both; but if the amount so extorted or demanded does not
        exceed
        $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one
        year, or both.

        18 USC §873
        §873. Blackmail
        Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not
        informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or
        receives
        any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or
        imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

        Sincerely yours,
        Sue
        ________________________
        Sue Sarkis
        Sarkis Detective Agency

        (est. 1976)
        PI 6564
        _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

        1346 Ethel Street
        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
        818-242-2505
        818-246-3001 FAX

        "one Nation under God" and "in GOD we TRUST"

        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
        a military veteran
        ************************<WBR>**Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make
        dinne
        less. (_http://food.http://food.<WBhttp://food.http://food.<WBRhttp_
        (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) )

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
        less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suesarkis@aol.com
        Bill - The way I understood what he was saying and I could be very wrong is that the government said - a) if you don t let us, than, - b) we will do an
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 3 9:22 AM
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          Bill -

          The way I understood what he was saying and I could be very wrong is that
          the government said -

          a) if you don't let us, than, -

          b) we will do an audit!

          Although an audit is a perfectly lawful act and although the bank swears
          they could withstand an audit as their books are in order and they are not one
          of the banks that holds deeds, etc., the fact still remains that the bank
          feared they could not withstand the financial penalties attached to having to have
          their staff involved over such a long period of time.

          In other words, you don't have to threaten to break someone's bones or kill
          their family members, both unlawful acts, for it to be extortion. Under the
          section he was referring to it was specifically about when the government
          uses its color of authority to impose pressure.

          However, you are the former fed and neither his honor nor I am so therefore,
          I'll capitulate.

          By the way, if I led you to believe that I personally know Judge Napolitano,
          I do apologize as I don't. I've just read his books, reviewed his cases and
          listened to his interviews.


          Sue
          **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
          less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Slipinn@aol.com
          They had a saying for this back in my Police days. You might beat the rap, but you never beat the ride Chuck Chambers Co-President, Florida Association of
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 3 9:27 AM
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            They had a saying for this back in my Police days.

            "You might beat the rap, but you never beat the ride"


            Chuck Chambers
            Co-President, Florida Association of Private Investigators (FAPI)
            Charter member- FAPI
            Author- The Private Investigator's Handbook
            Recipient of the 2007 Fapi Outstanding service award
            State approved Instructor Class CC intern course-Manatee Community College

            _WWW.ChambersAgency.com_ (http://www.chambersagency.com/)
            Chambers Investigations
            606 49th st w
            Bradenton Florida 34209
            Lic.# A-0001959
            941-798-3804



            In a message dated 4/3/2009 12:25:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            suesarkis@... writes:




            Bill -

            The way I understood what he was saying and I could be very wrong is that
            the government said -

            a) if you don't let us, than, -

            b) we will do an audit!

            Although an audit is a perfectly lawful act and although the bank swears
            they could withstand an audit as their books are in order and they are not
            one
            of the banks that holds deeds, etc., the fact still remains that the bank
            feared they could not withstand the financial penalties attached to having
            to have
            their staff involved over such a long period of time.

            In other words, you don't have to threaten to break someone's bones or kill
            their family members, both unlawful acts, for it to be extortion. Under the
            section he was referring to it was specifically about when the government
            uses its color of authority to impose pressure.

            However, you are the former fed and neither his honor nor I am so therefore,
            I'll capitulate.

            By the way, if I led you to believe that I personally know Judge Napolitano,
            I do apologize as I don't. I've just read his books, reviewed his cases and
            listened to his interviews.


            Sue
            ************************<WBR>**Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make d
            less. (_http://food.http://food.<WBhttp://food.http://food.<WBRhttp_
            (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) )

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









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