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Re: A "Senior Moment"

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  • Ricky Gurley
    ... shelves ... every ... involved. Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to multiply the effect of the cherry pie thefts and
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      > rmriinc@... writes:
      >
      > Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
      > the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
      > patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
      > Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
      > "Cherry Pie Bandit"?
      >
      >
      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      >
      > Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The
      shelves
      > and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if
      every
      > Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
      involved.


      Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to
      multiply the effect of the "cherry pie thefts" and assume a certain
      result from such multiplication practices..

      Our economy would be far worse than it is now if every "Cherry Pie
      Bandit" and the like were to be prosecuted at thousands of dollars per
      case for a $5.00 pie theft, our taxes would skyrocket just to pay the
      Prosecutor's Office..

      And while you are getting robbed at gunpoint, the Police Officer that
      could be saving you from this, will be at the local jail processing
      the "Cherry Pie Bandits" by the dozen..

      And the murder, rape and robbery cases, would not get as much time in
      court as the "cherry pie thefts"...

      I spoke with a friend of mine that is a deputy sheriff here in Boone
      County, and she has been with the Sheriff's Dept. for about 12 years
      now. The first thing she said about this situation is that the Officer
      was not very bright, and he is probably getting quite a bit of "flack"
      from his fellow officers for this.. The second thing that she said was
      that even in Boone County where the crime rate is really not that bad,
      it is still a foolish waste of resources to charge someone for this.
      And the third thing she said is that here in Missouri it is not
      necessary to charge in these cases, LEOs have the discretion to make
      the person go back and pay for the merchandise; whatever it may be.
      And LEOs are expected to wisely use that discretion being that
      fingerprinting someone for this alone costs more than the value of the
      pie.. Who does the cost get passed off to when there are not enough
      resources to handle the serious criminal infractions?

      So, I think that the wise use of discretion is called for in this
      scenario...


      Rick.


      RMRI, Inc.
      http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
    • suesarkis@aol.com
      Rick - sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO s and the legislature of all states. Now, let s set aside the fact that in THIS case with
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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        Rick -

        sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO's and the
        legislature
        of all states. Now, let's set aside the fact that in THIS case with the
        cherry pie
        bandit, only a fool would pursue this particular matter.

        For starters, in most states Petty Theft is not an infraction but rather a
        misdemeanor.
        In some states, enough of the misdemeanors convictions such as 3 or 4 will
        amount
        to a felony. It's commonly referred to as a "petty with a prior". I cannot
        speak about
        the sentencing laws of Missouri but I sure as heck can about CA.
        Sentencing can
        be financially stiff and then the monies are divided by a pre-set formula
        between the
        prosecutors, the LEO's, the judiciary, etc.

        Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your very
        liberal attitude
        and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime has
        gone amok?
        I don't; it's quite obvious.



        Sincerely yours,
        Sue
        ________________________
        Sue Sarkis
        Sarkis Detective Agency

        (est. 1976)
        PI 6564
        _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

        1346 Ethel Street
        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
        818-242-2505
        818-246-3001 FAX

        "one Nation under God"

        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
        a military veteran



        **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
        Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
        (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • akamscluso@aol.com
        HI My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn t find my cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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          HI

          My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn't find my
          cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
          placed it. Turns out it was in my car which Robert had taken to go get gas.
          Seeing on the caller ID it was me he picks up the phone and says Hello. Here's
          the senior moment part. I say to him, I can't find my cell, so if you see
          it anywhere in the car, let me know. He laughs and says sure will, honey. It
          wasn't til after I got t off the phone did I realize what a stupid thing I just
          did. Bless Robert's heaart, he just smiled a Sh*&^T eating grin, when he
          handed me my phone and said...The phone was in the car, dear. And nothing else
          was ever said about it.

          Sherry Howard
          Howard & Assoc
          pi#19910



          **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
          Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
          (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ricky Gurley
          ... very ... has ... We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from ... Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:

            > Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your
            very
            > liberal attitude
            > and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime
            has
            > gone amok?
            > I don't; it's quite obvious.

            We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from
            the board that this post came from:

            -----------------------------------------------------------------------
            Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
            There weren't near as many prosecutions for dumb ###### back then. You
            got in trouble and the sheriff would generally visit your parents and
            scare you into not doing that ######, whatever it was, again. Case closed.

            I think that prosecuting the cherry pie thief is just another sign of
            the times of a punitive, law and order society, that has gotten out of
            hand.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            http://board.columbiatribune.com/index.php?showtopic=6359&pid=70350&st=0&#entry70350


            And that board has about an equal amount of opinions on both sides.. I
            think it is a fair representation of how society is divided about
            issues like this one.

            I suppose on some things I have a liberal attitude and on others I
            have a conservative attitude.. But.. Those are political terms, and
            I'd at least like to believe that I am not a "political person".. I'd
            prefer to say that on some things I think common sense should be
            exercised and other things require a certain harshness..

            Here, in Missouri he'd get a fine of approximately $200.00, and he'd
            have to pay $72.00 in court costs and he'd have to pay double the cost
            for the pie; a grand total of $282.00; assuming this would be charged
            as an infraction (which in this case or any case like it, it would;
            due to the difficulty in proving intent). That would not even pay for
            two hours of a decent attorney's time, or mine for that matter..
            Summing up the average yearly income for a Prosecutor and pulling that
            down to an hourly figure, that is less than 20 hours of a Prosecutor's
            time. A Prosecutor will spend about 20 hours, maybe a little less on
            this case.. What about the filing fees? What about the processing
            expense? What about the housing expense at the jail; if even for 10
            hours? Now, since we are multiplying, multiply that cost by 10,000,
            which is a tiny figure when we consider some over-populated places
            like Los Angeles, or New York City..

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            Missouri Revised Statutes
            Chapter 560
            Fines
            Section 560.016

            Fines for misdemeanors and infractions.

            560.016. 1. Except as otherwise provided for an offense outside this
            code, a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction
            may be sentenced to pay a fine which does not exceed:

            (1) For a class A misdemeanor, one thousand dollars;

            (2) For a class B misdemeanor, five hundred dollars;

            (3) For a class C misdemeanor, three hundred dollars;

            (4) For an infraction, two hundred dollars.

            2. In lieu of a fine imposed under subsection 1, a person who has been
            convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction through which he derived
            "gain" as defined in section 560.011, may be sentenced to a fine which
            does not exceed double the amount of gain from the commission of the
            offense. An individual offender may be fined not more than twenty
            thousand dollars under this provision.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------

            To me, because I can do basic math, it just seems like it is common
            sense that these cases are "losing propositions" for EVERYONE...


            Rick.

            RMRI, Inc.
            http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
          • David O'Niell
            I think it s fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do things like this-- ... - ... --
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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              I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
              things like this--


              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
              > thought it was pretty interesting:
              >
              >
              >
              > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
              > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
              > treated differently?
              >
              > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
              > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
              > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
              > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
              >
              > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
              > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
              > to shoplift.
              >
              > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
              >
              >
              > QUOTE
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -
              > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
              > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
              >
              > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
              > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
              > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
              > jail.
              >
              > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
              > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
              > for the rest of his groceries.
              >
              > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
              > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
              >
              > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
              > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
              > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              --
              >
              > Full Story:
              > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
              >
              > Story COMMENTS here:
              > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
              >
              >
              >
              > Any thoughts?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Rick.
              >
            • Tom Eskridge
              It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest. Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the facts not
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest.
                Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the
                facts not in evidence, there is a lot of assuming going on!



                For those not educated in the area, at least in California, it is a criminal
                offense for a cop to refuse a citizens arrest, assuming there is any degree
                of reasonableness to the arrest.



                This is without even opening the argument that cops should be able to decide
                which criminal offenses are worth their effort. This is fine..until YOU'RE
                the victim..



                Tom Eskridge

                Chief Operations Officer

                High Tech Crime Institute

                13400 Wright Cir

                Tampa FL 33626

                866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                _____

                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
                Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:22 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"




                In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                rmriinc@grouply. <mailto:rmriinc%40grouply.com> com writes:

                Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                "Cherry Pie Bandit"?

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The shelves
                and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if every
                Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
                involved.
                With that in mind, you and I would then have to pay $50/pie to make up for
                the losses.

                Of course a true criminal should be prosecuted regardless of how petty.
                However, the key words are TRUE CRIMINAL.



                Sincerely yours,
                Sue
                ________________________
                Sue Sarkis
                Sarkis Detective Agency

                (est. 1976)
                PI 6564
                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

                1346 Ethel Street
                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                818-242-2505
                818-246-3001 FAX

                "one Nation under God"

                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                a military veteran

                **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                (http://food.
                <http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
                aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • suesarkis@aol.com
                Rick - For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager? If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                  Rick -

                  For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager?
                  If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                  should be using common sense.

                  The opinion from the board it posted from is ridiculous, to say the least,
                  and not only not in touch with the case at hand but not in touch with the
                  times.

                  For starters, I doubt that this 79 year old man had parents to be taken to
                  by the LEO's. That is how juveniles are usually handled, even today.
                  However, since corporal punishment by parents is a felony in many states, even that
                  doesn't work like it used to. Spare the rod; spoil the child !!!

                  As I said before, in THIS case the prosecution seems a little ridiculous
                  even with a prior because they will have a very hard time trying to prove intent
                  which I believe we agree on.

                  However, the opinion presented about the prosecutions having gotten out of
                  hand is true. However, the fault does not lie with the LEO's or the
                  prosecutors but rather with the leftist, give me something for nothing general public
                  who would sue the shit out of the LEOs/prosecutors for failing to enforce the
                  law should he then have thrown the pie in someone's face or some other absurd
                  modern day tortious act.

                  It is absolutely insane that a law has to be put on the books in all 50
                  states protecting homeowners from civil litigation from a residential burglar
                  getting injured while fleeing the home because he's being chased by a watch dog.
                  However, juries have awarded large judgments for such thieves and that is
                  all because of the leftist mentality. No two ways about it. Call it
                  political if you care to; I call it asinine.

                  By the way, perhaps Missouri might increase their criminal penalties to come
                  into touch with the times. Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                  violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence purposes.
                  Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie man is.


                  Sincerely yours,
                  Sue
                  ________________________
                  Sue Sarkis
                  Sarkis Detective Agency

                  (est. 1976)
                  PI 6564
                  _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                  1346 Ethel Street
                  Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                  818-242-2505
                  818-246-3001 FAX

                  "one Nation under God"

                  If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                  a military veteran



                  **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                  Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                  (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ricky Gurley
                  ... Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial ... purposes. ... man is. Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the conservative ... I
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Rick -
                    Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                    > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                    purposes.
                    > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                    man is.


                    Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                    "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                    Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                    else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                    Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                    off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                    have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                    I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                    here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                    And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                    should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                    guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                    I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                    being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                    And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                    victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                    Police State, if you are the Police......


                    Rick.


                    RMRI, Inc.
                    http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                  • Tom Eskridge
                    I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is being enforced against the guilty, and not the maybe guilty . Rick, I see you drank the
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                      I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                      being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".



                      Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                      crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been arrested. So
                      if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to have a
                      prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...



                      Tom Eskridge

                      Chief Operations Officer

                      High Tech Crime Institute

                      13400 Wright Cir

                      Tampa FL 33626

                      866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                      Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                      Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                      _____

                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                      Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:14 PM
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                      --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Rick -
                      Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                      > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                      purposes.
                      > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                      man is.

                      Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                      "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                      Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                      else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                      Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                      off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                      have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                      I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                      here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                      And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                      should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                      guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                      I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                      being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                      And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                      victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                      Police State, if you are the Police......

                      Rick.

                      RMRI, Inc.
                      http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                      bestcyberinvestigator.com





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ricky Gurley
                      ... arrested. So ... have a ... From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so you ll have a way to swallow your meds... An arrest and/or the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                        > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                        > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                        arrested. So
                        > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                        have a
                        > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...


                        From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                        you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                        An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                        that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                        trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                        here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                        as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                        process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                        And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                        to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                        Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                        court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                        a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                        not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                        was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                        you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                        same line of thought?


                        Rick.


                        RMRI, Inc.
                        http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                      • Salvatore F. Alioto
                        In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once arrested there are
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                          In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on
                          it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once
                          arrested there are processing option which would have had the elderly
                          gentleman released in a little over an hour. He would be fingerprinted,
                          photographed and issued a summons to appear in court on a specified date
                          to answer the charges before a judge. I don't know why it took 10 hours
                          to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                          enforcement.

                          Sal

                          ************ Discreetly Addressing Your Private Needs ************



                          Salvatore F. Alioto

                          Owner/Operator Able Shamus Investigations

                          Retired Sergeant NY City Police Department



                          Licensed by the NY State Department of State

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                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                          > thought it was pretty interesting:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                          > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                          > treated differently?
                          >
                          > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                          > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                          > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                          > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                          >
                          > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                          > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                          > to shoplift.
                          >
                          > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                          >
                          >
                          > QUOTE
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                          > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                          >
                          > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                          > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                          > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                          > jail.
                          >
                          > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                          > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                          > for the rest of his groceries.
                          >
                          > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                          > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                          >
                          > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                          > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                          > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Full Story:
                          > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
                          >
                          > Story COMMENTS here:
                          > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Any thoughts?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Rick.
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • suesarkis@aol.com
                          In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sfapi59@yahoo.com writes: I don t know why it took 10 hours to process this man. Things must
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            sfapi59@... writes:

                            I don't know why it took 10 hours
                            to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                            enforcement.



                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                            Sal -

                            I agree with your sentiment. However, depending upon where someone is
                            booked here in Los Angeles County, it could take anywhere from an hour to 48
                            hours. Los Angeles County jail is the largest jail in the world and trust me when
                            I say, those civil service employees do as little as they can for as long as
                            they can.

                            With the inmate population being static through the years, I used to be able
                            to get an inmate released within 2 hours on bond at CJ. Now with all their
                            fancy, expensive computers and such it is a minimum of 10 hours and that is
                            only if you are very, very lucky.




                            Sincerely yours,
                            Sue
                            ________________________
                            Sue Sarkis
                            Sarkis Detective Agency

                            (est. 1976)
                            PI 6564
                            _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                            1346 Ethel Street
                            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                            818-242-2505
                            818-246-3001 FAX

                            "one Nation under God"

                            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                            a military veteran



                            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • suesarkis@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rmriinc@grouply.com writes: Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                              rmriinc@... writes:

                              Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                              "conservative""conservative"<WBR>... I see nothing wrong with a "goo
                              Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                              else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                              Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                              off of his ass!


                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                              Rick -

                              Here you go again. How can you possibly construe from anything you have
                              EVER heard me say that could remotely make you think that I am a LIBERAL or
                              that I would be against caning. When Bill Clinton asked for leniency for
                              MISSOURI born and raised Michael Fay[e], I personally sent a Telex to Ong Teng
                              Cheong (????) begging that he ignore the leniency request from Mr. Liberal
                              himself. I've been to Singapore a couple of times and you can eat off their
                              sidewalks they are so clean.

                              Shoot, you get caned in Singapore for chewing gum which is outlawed. If you
                              ever travel there, don't even think of having any in your pocket.

                              The next time you refer to me with that ugly "L" word you'll get a lot more
                              than a caning.

                              Sincerely,
                              Sue



                              **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                              Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                              (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tom Eskridge
                              Rick What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its not like he s out killing 7-11 clerks. I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Rick



                                What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its' not like he's
                                out killing 7-11 clerks.



                                I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where a man sat in county
                                jail for 2 years, was found not guilty and was released from jail. Under
                                your prior post this proved that he should not have even been arrested as he
                                was "probably guilty" and not in fact guilty. Or in this case he was deemed
                                not guilty.



                                I was just pointing out how foolish your post was. How is the first
                                responder cop to know if his/her witnesses have a grudge? Witnesses lie,
                                exaggerate and make honest mistakes. How many people have you interviewed
                                who claimed they saw an accident, and you determined that what they saw was
                                the aftermath of the accident when they turned at the sound of the collision
                                and saw cars spinning about. But in their minds they saw the "accident".



                                And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found "guilty"
                                in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do you do
                                this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of arrest, then
                                I guess no one should ever be arrested.







                                Tom Eskridge

                                Chief Operations Officer

                                High Tech Crime Institute

                                13400 Wright Cir

                                Tampa FL 33626

                                866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                _____

                                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:53 PM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                                arrested. So
                                > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                                have a
                                > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...

                                From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                                you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                                An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                                that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                                trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                                here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                                as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                                process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                                And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                                to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                                Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                                court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                                a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                                not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                                was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                                you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                                same line of thought?

                                Rick.

                                RMRI, Inc.
                                http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don t forget the
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the
                                  trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't forget the
                                  vaseline....

                                  Gladys Brierley
                                  ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS
                                  PO Box 872
                                  Newton, MS 39345
                                  cell 601-480-3181
                                  bus & fax 601-683-2094
                                  Newton County Business License #1499
                                  Duns # 8082376
                                  _ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS | PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATIONS_
                                  (http://www.accurateinvestigation.com/)

                                  Member ACI, MPIA, APIA, NAIS
                                  _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                  (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/)
                                  _ProfessionalInvestigators : PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS_
                                  (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfessionalInvestigators/?yguid=8099974)












                                  **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                  Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                  (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ricky Gurley
                                  ... from the ... forget the ... Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Glad4JC@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk
                                    from the
                                    > trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't
                                    forget the
                                    > vaseline....


                                    Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the
                                    debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on harsher
                                    punishment for offenders..

                                    Rick.


                                    RMRI, Inc.
                                    http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                  • Ricky Gurley
                                    ... guilty ... you do ... arrest, then ... You re playing games ... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment until a person can go to trial and defend
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:


                                      > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                      "guilty"
                                      > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                      you do
                                      > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                      arrest, then
                                      > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                      You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                      until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                      is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                      The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                      an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                      incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                      code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                      to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                      that, Tom?

                                      Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                      this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                      have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                      there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                      to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                      discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                      is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                      certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                      been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                      inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                      and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                      But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                      accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                      is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                      been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                      to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                      Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                      incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                      (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                      guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                      would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                      post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                      have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                      treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                      jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                      punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                      molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                      what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                      the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                      And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                      was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                      referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                      never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                      I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                      your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                      conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case; Tom.



                                      Rick.

                                      RMRI, Inc.
                                      http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                    • Gary Krisulevicz
                                      All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow..... -Gary www.bartletagency.com ... From: Ricky Gurley
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow.....
                                        -Gary
                                        www.bartletagency.com



                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
                                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 7:38:32 AM
                                        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                        --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                        > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                        "guilty"
                                        > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                        you do
                                        > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                        arrest, then
                                        > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                        You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                        until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                        is not a punishment.. . At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                        The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                        an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                        incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                        code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                        to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                        that, Tom?

                                        Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                        this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                        have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                        there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                        to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                        discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                        is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                        certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                        been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                        inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                        and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                        But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                        accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                        is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                        been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                        to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                        Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                        incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                        (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                        guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                        would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                        post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                        have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                        treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                        jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                        punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                        molestation) , keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                        what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                        the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                        And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                        was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                        referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                        never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                        I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                        your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                        conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                        Rick.

                                        RMRI, Inc.
                                        http://rmriinc. bestcyberinvesti gator.com






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Tom Eskridge
                                        Dearest Rick Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the strict enforcement of the law and punishment. You seem to be melding
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dearest Rick



                                          Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the
                                          "strict enforcement of the law" and punishment. You seem to be melding them
                                          together. The cops are charged with the "enforcement of the law". Whether
                                          that enforcement is "strict", "liberal", "petty", or whatever else is in the
                                          eye of the beholder.



                                          The prosecutor is charged with prosecuting those cases in a manner that is
                                          acceptable to the community and the court is charged with applying laws and
                                          then punishment where appropriate. ( I took this directly from the opening
                                          of Law and Order)



                                          For some reason (and I'm not saying it's a bad reason) you seem to think
                                          that the "strict enforcement of the law" only applies post a proper
                                          conviction.



                                          I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most if not
                                          all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                          initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that only
                                          the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the cops
                                          enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?





                                          Tom Eskridge

                                          Chief Operations Officer

                                          High Tech Crime Institute

                                          13400 Wright Cir

                                          Tampa FL 33626

                                          866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                          Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                          Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                          _____

                                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                          On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                          Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:39 AM
                                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                          --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                          > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                          "guilty"
                                          > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                          you do
                                          > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                          arrest, then
                                          > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                          You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                          until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                          is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                          The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                          an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                          incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                          code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                          to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                          that, Tom?

                                          Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                          this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                          have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                          there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                          to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                          discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                          is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                          certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                          been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                          inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                          and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                          But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                          accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                          is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                          been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                          to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                          Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                          incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                          (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                          guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                          would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                          post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                          have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                          treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                          jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                          punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                          molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                          what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                          the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                          And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                          was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                          referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                          never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                          I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                          your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                          conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                          Rick.

                                          RMRI, Inc.
                                          http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                          bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Ricky Gurley
                                          ... if not ... only ... cops ... I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since one of the accepted definition for enforcing the law
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                            > I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most
                                            if not
                                            > all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                            > initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that
                                            only
                                            > the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the
                                            cops
                                            > enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?
                                            >


                                            I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since
                                            one of the accepted definition for "enforcing the law" is what is done
                                            by Police Officers prior to a trial.. However, let me ask you a
                                            question. If a state statute prescribes a certain punishment or a
                                            range of punishment for an offended that is found guilty, and a Judge
                                            follows that "prescription for punishment" in sentencing, is the Judge
                                            not also "enforcing the law"?

                                            And Gary, you get kudos.. It appears you are smart enough to delete
                                            posts you don't agree with, rather than complain about them on the
                                            group, and how much they are taking up your precious time. Good for
                                            you, Gary. Keep deleting those posts you don't agree with.


                                            Rick.

                                            RMRI, Inc.
                                            http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                          • bella_mafia@yahoo.com
                                            I think in this case it was a legitimate senior moment . Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of senior moments , I think it
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                              mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                               
                                              Linda Smith


                                              Bella Mafia

                                              --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...> wrote:

                                              From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...>
                                              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM






                                              I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                              things like this--

                                              --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                              > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                              > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                              > treated differently?
                                              >
                                              > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                              > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                              > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                              > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                              >
                                              > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                              > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                              > to shoplift.
                                              >
                                              > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > QUOTE
                                              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                              -
                                              > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                              > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                              >
                                              > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                              > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                              > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                              > jail.
                                              >
                                              > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                              > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                              > for the rest of his groceries.
                                              >
                                              > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                              > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                              >
                                              > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                              > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                              > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                              --
                                              >
                                              > Full Story:
                                              > http://www.sun- sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                              >
                                              > Story COMMENTS here:
                                              > http://www.topix. net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Any thoughts?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Rick.
                                              >


















                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • fjgrande@sbcglobal.net
                                              I am in total awe. Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC P.O. Box 825 Bethel, CT 06801 Office: 203.743.6455 Fax:  203.778.2415 Toll: 877.743.6455 Email
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I am in total awe.

                                                Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC
                                                P.O. Box 825
                                                Bethel, CT 06801
                                                Office: 203.743.6455
                                                Fax:  203.778.2415
                                                Toll: 877.743.6455
                                                Email info@...
                                                Web: www.checkmate-investigations.net
                                                CT Lic. #A-2192,
                                                NCISS, NAIS, CALPI
                                                When there are no more moves, CHECKMATE!
                                                WE ARE YOUR LAST
                                                MOVE!
                                                 
                                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: "bella_mafia@..." <emmylousings@...>

                                                Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:01:35
                                                To:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                                I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                                mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                                 
                                                Linda Smith

                                                Bella Mafia

                                                --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...> wrote:

                                                From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...>
                                                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                                To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM

                                                I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                                things like this--

                                                --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                                > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                                > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                                > treated differently?
                                                >
                                                > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                                > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                                > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                                > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                                >
                                                > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                                > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                                > to shoplift.
                                                >
                                                > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > QUOTE
                                                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                -
                                                > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                                > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                                >
                                                > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                                > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                                > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                                > jail.
                                                >
                                                > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                                > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                                > for the rest of his groceries.
                                                >
                                                > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                                > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                                >
                                                > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                                > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                                > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                --
                                                >
                                                > Full Story:
                                                > http://www.sun- <http://www.sun-> sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                                >
                                                > Story COMMENTS here:
                                                > http://www.topix. <http://www.topix.> net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Any thoughts?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Rick.
                                                >

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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