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Re: [infoguys-list] A "Senior Moment"

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  • Glad4JC@aol.com
    Gladys Brierley ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS PO Box 872 Newton, MS 39345 cell 601-480-3181 bus & fax 601-683-2094 Newton County Business License #1499 Duns #
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 7, 2008
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      Gladys Brierley
      ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS
      PO Box 872
      Newton, MS 39345
      cell 601-480-3181
      bus & fax 601-683-2094
      Newton County Business License #1499
      Duns # 8082376
      _ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS | PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATIONS_
      (http://www.accurateinvestigation.com/)

      Member ACI, MPIA, APIA, NAIS
      _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
      (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/)
      _ProfessionalInvestigators : PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS_
      (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfessionalInvestigators/?yguid=8099974)












      **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
      Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ricky Gurley
      ... noticed by the ... I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
        >
        > Rick -
        >
        > The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO
        > PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been
        noticed by the
        > staff. Shoot, I've done the same thing and I'm not quite that old.
        >
        > Sue

        I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make
        concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
        plain site (in the grocery cart) goes towards showing a lack of
        "intent to deprive another person or entity of their property".

        I got some gas at a convenience store up the road from me about 4
        months ago, and I bought a bunch of snacks, drinks, and such. Well, of
        course convenience stores are "high priced" when it comes to
        groceries, and I was in a hurry to get home. Well, the clerk did NOT
        charge me for the gas. I did not think anything of it, it did not even
        register when I gave the clerk my credit card. The next day I was
        doing the books, and I caught the error. So, I called the convenience
        store, and informed the store manager that I owed them approximately
        $40.00. The store manager told me the clerk came up short that much
        and she was going to terminate his employment. I asked her to hold off
        until I got there and paid the bill The store is less than a 1/4 of a
        mile from my house. So, I drove up to the store, and I paid the
        $40.00, and I told the store manager that this was as much my fault as
        it was the clerk's, and that I thought that firing the clerk over this
        was a little harsh. The store manager apparently is not known in the
        store as being the "nicest store manager in the world"; and let me
        know in no uncertain terms that the clerk was going to lose his job.
        So, I went home, called the corporate headquarters and raised holy
        hell about this. The clerk DID keep his job. So, in my view this was
        also my fault for not paying attention and allowing this to happen.
        Thankfully I was able to rectify my mistake and keep a person from
        losing his job. Now, I am 41 years old (then I was 40. LOL.), I have
        no "memory problem excuse" (maybe in another 40 years?).

        Now, at this man's age (79 years old) I think the prudent thing to do
        is "cut him a break"; and just make him go back and pay for the pie.

        But there is another consideration here too..

        EVEN if this man had the intent to STEAL this pie.. Do we really want
        our tax dollars going towards the Police chasing "The Great Cherry Pie
        Bandit"? Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
        the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
        patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
        Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
        "Cherry Pie Bandit"? I don't know about Florida, but here in Missouri
        Law Enforcement Officers do have discretion on whether or not to
        charge for incidents like this. If the man's intent WAS to steal the
        pie, then a little "public humiliation" by making him go back and pay
        for the pie and apologize for not paying for it in the first place
        would have sufficed, in my personal opinion.

        I think the Officer that charged this offense is a "dipstick". What he
        did just does not add us to good common and/or business sense to me;
        in my personal opinion..


        Rick.
      • Gary Krisulevicz
        In Texas it would have been a Class C misdemeanor unless he has 2 prior convictions in which case it would be a felony, even for the 5 buck pie. In this story
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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          In Texas it would have been a Class C misdemeanor unless he has 2 prior convictions in which case it would be a felony, even for the 5 buck pie. In this story intent seems to be missing which is an integral part of the elements of the crime. The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the officer booking him says to me this may be more true than what we are looking at. The class C offense is a ticket-able release, to haul some old guy in for 5 bucks tells me there is a lot missing from the story. Trust me when I say this - being a retired Texas LEO - if you can get an arrest on the book without all the paperwork and procedures it takes to physically arrest him and transport - they would have given a ticket in a minute. Both count the same on the daily.
           
          Crooks come in all shapes and sizes and ages....Just my 2 cents worth.
           
          -Gary
          www.bartletagency.com



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 10:57:51 AM
          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


          --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, suesarkis@.. . wrote:
          >
          > Rick -
          >
          > The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO
          > PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been
          noticed by the
          > staff. Shoot, I've done the same thing and I'm not quite that old.
          >
          > Sue

          I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make
          concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
          plain site (in the grocery cart) goes towards showing a lack of
          "intent to deprive another person or entity of their property".

          I got some gas at a convenience store up the road from me about 4
          months ago, and I bought a bunch of snacks, drinks, and such. Well, of
          course convenience stores are "high priced" when it comes to
          groceries, and I was in a hurry to get home. Well, the clerk did NOT
          charge me for the gas. I did not think anything of it, it did not even
          register when I gave the clerk my credit card. The next day I was
          doing the books, and I caught the error. So, I called the convenience
          store, and informed the store manager that I owed them approximately
          $40.00. The store manager told me the clerk came up short that much
          and she was going to terminate his employment. I asked her to hold off
          until I got there and paid the bill The store is less than a 1/4 of a
          mile from my house. So, I drove up to the store, and I paid the
          $40.00, and I told the store manager that this was as much my fault as
          it was the clerk's, and that I thought that firing the clerk over this
          was a little harsh. The store manager apparently is not known in the
          store as being the "nicest store manager in the world"; and let me
          know in no uncertain terms that the clerk was going to lose his job.
          So, I went home, called the corporate headquarters and raised holy
          hell about this. The clerk DID keep his job. So, in my view this was
          also my fault for not paying attention and allowing this to happen.
          Thankfully I was able to rectify my mistake and keep a person from
          losing his job. Now, I am 41 years old (then I was 40. LOL.), I have
          no "memory problem excuse" (maybe in another 40 years?).

          Now, at this man's age (79 years old) I think the prudent thing to do
          is "cut him a break"; and just make him go back and pay for the pie.

          But there is another consideration here too..

          EVEN if this man had the intent to STEAL this pie.. Do we really want
          our tax dollars going towards the Police chasing "The Great Cherry Pie
          Bandit"? Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
          the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
          patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
          Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
          "Cherry Pie Bandit"? I don't know about Florida, but here in Missouri
          Law Enforcement Officers do have discretion on whether or not to
          charge for incidents like this. If the man's intent WAS to steal the
          pie, then a little "public humiliation" by making him go back and pay
          for the pie and apologize for not paying for it in the first place
          would have sufficed, in my personal opinion.

          I think the Officer that charged this offense is a "dipstick". What he
          did just does not add us to good common and/or business sense to me;
          in my personal opinion..

          Rick.






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suesarkis@aol.com
          In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rmriinc@grouply.com writes: Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing the
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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            In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            rmriinc@... writes:

            Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
            the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
            patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
            Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
            "Cherry Pie Bandit"?


            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The shelves
            and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if every
            Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost involved.
            With that in mind, you and I would then have to pay $50/pie to make up for
            the losses.

            Of course a true criminal should be prosecuted regardless of how petty.
            However, the key words are TRUE CRIMINAL.



            Sincerely yours,
            Sue
            ________________________
            Sue Sarkis
            Sarkis Detective Agency

            (est. 1976)
            PI 6564
            _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

            1346 Ethel Street
            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
            818-242-2505
            818-246-3001 FAX

            "one Nation under God"

            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
            a military veteran



            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suesarkis@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:22:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bartletagency@yahoo.com writes: The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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              In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:22:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              bartletagency@... writes:

              The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the officer
              booking him says to me this may be more true than what we are looking at.


              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              Gary -

              Since we don't know the circumstances of the previous petty, we cannot truly
              presume anything. However, I likened it to just another overzealous LEO not
              giving any consideration for Allzheimer's or even Halfzheimer's !!!
              (emphasis added, misspelling intentional)



              Sincerely yours,
              Sue
              ________________________
              Sue Sarkis
              Sarkis Detective Agency

              (est. 1976)
              PI 6564
              _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

              1346 Ethel Street
              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
              818-242-2505
              818-246-3001 FAX

              "one Nation under God"

              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
              a military veteran



              **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
              Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
              (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ricky Gurley
              ... shelves ... every ... involved. Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to multiply the effect of the cherry pie thefts and
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                > rmriinc@... writes:
                >
                > Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                > the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                > patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                > Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                > "Cherry Pie Bandit"?
                >
                >
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                > Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The
                shelves
                > and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if
                every
                > Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
                involved.


                Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to
                multiply the effect of the "cherry pie thefts" and assume a certain
                result from such multiplication practices..

                Our economy would be far worse than it is now if every "Cherry Pie
                Bandit" and the like were to be prosecuted at thousands of dollars per
                case for a $5.00 pie theft, our taxes would skyrocket just to pay the
                Prosecutor's Office..

                And while you are getting robbed at gunpoint, the Police Officer that
                could be saving you from this, will be at the local jail processing
                the "Cherry Pie Bandits" by the dozen..

                And the murder, rape and robbery cases, would not get as much time in
                court as the "cherry pie thefts"...

                I spoke with a friend of mine that is a deputy sheriff here in Boone
                County, and she has been with the Sheriff's Dept. for about 12 years
                now. The first thing she said about this situation is that the Officer
                was not very bright, and he is probably getting quite a bit of "flack"
                from his fellow officers for this.. The second thing that she said was
                that even in Boone County where the crime rate is really not that bad,
                it is still a foolish waste of resources to charge someone for this.
                And the third thing she said is that here in Missouri it is not
                necessary to charge in these cases, LEOs have the discretion to make
                the person go back and pay for the merchandise; whatever it may be.
                And LEOs are expected to wisely use that discretion being that
                fingerprinting someone for this alone costs more than the value of the
                pie.. Who does the cost get passed off to when there are not enough
                resources to handle the serious criminal infractions?

                So, I think that the wise use of discretion is called for in this
                scenario...


                Rick.


                RMRI, Inc.
                http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
              • suesarkis@aol.com
                Rick - sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO s and the legislature of all states. Now, let s set aside the fact that in THIS case with
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                  Rick -

                  sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO's and the
                  legislature
                  of all states. Now, let's set aside the fact that in THIS case with the
                  cherry pie
                  bandit, only a fool would pursue this particular matter.

                  For starters, in most states Petty Theft is not an infraction but rather a
                  misdemeanor.
                  In some states, enough of the misdemeanors convictions such as 3 or 4 will
                  amount
                  to a felony. It's commonly referred to as a "petty with a prior". I cannot
                  speak about
                  the sentencing laws of Missouri but I sure as heck can about CA.
                  Sentencing can
                  be financially stiff and then the monies are divided by a pre-set formula
                  between the
                  prosecutors, the LEO's, the judiciary, etc.

                  Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your very
                  liberal attitude
                  and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime has
                  gone amok?
                  I don't; it's quite obvious.



                  Sincerely yours,
                  Sue
                  ________________________
                  Sue Sarkis
                  Sarkis Detective Agency

                  (est. 1976)
                  PI 6564
                  _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                  1346 Ethel Street
                  Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                  818-242-2505
                  818-246-3001 FAX

                  "one Nation under God"

                  If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                  a military veteran



                  **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                  Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                  (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • akamscluso@aol.com
                  HI My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn t find my cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                    HI

                    My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn't find my
                    cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
                    placed it. Turns out it was in my car which Robert had taken to go get gas.
                    Seeing on the caller ID it was me he picks up the phone and says Hello. Here's
                    the senior moment part. I say to him, I can't find my cell, so if you see
                    it anywhere in the car, let me know. He laughs and says sure will, honey. It
                    wasn't til after I got t off the phone did I realize what a stupid thing I just
                    did. Bless Robert's heaart, he just smiled a Sh*&^T eating grin, when he
                    handed me my phone and said...The phone was in the car, dear. And nothing else
                    was ever said about it.

                    Sherry Howard
                    Howard & Assoc
                    pi#19910



                    **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                    Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                    (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ricky Gurley
                    ... very ... has ... We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from ... Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:

                      > Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your
                      very
                      > liberal attitude
                      > and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime
                      has
                      > gone amok?
                      > I don't; it's quite obvious.

                      We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from
                      the board that this post came from:

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
                      There weren't near as many prosecutions for dumb ###### back then. You
                      got in trouble and the sheriff would generally visit your parents and
                      scare you into not doing that ######, whatever it was, again. Case closed.

                      I think that prosecuting the cherry pie thief is just another sign of
                      the times of a punitive, law and order society, that has gotten out of
                      hand.
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      http://board.columbiatribune.com/index.php?showtopic=6359&pid=70350&st=0&#entry70350


                      And that board has about an equal amount of opinions on both sides.. I
                      think it is a fair representation of how society is divided about
                      issues like this one.

                      I suppose on some things I have a liberal attitude and on others I
                      have a conservative attitude.. But.. Those are political terms, and
                      I'd at least like to believe that I am not a "political person".. I'd
                      prefer to say that on some things I think common sense should be
                      exercised and other things require a certain harshness..

                      Here, in Missouri he'd get a fine of approximately $200.00, and he'd
                      have to pay $72.00 in court costs and he'd have to pay double the cost
                      for the pie; a grand total of $282.00; assuming this would be charged
                      as an infraction (which in this case or any case like it, it would;
                      due to the difficulty in proving intent). That would not even pay for
                      two hours of a decent attorney's time, or mine for that matter..
                      Summing up the average yearly income for a Prosecutor and pulling that
                      down to an hourly figure, that is less than 20 hours of a Prosecutor's
                      time. A Prosecutor will spend about 20 hours, maybe a little less on
                      this case.. What about the filing fees? What about the processing
                      expense? What about the housing expense at the jail; if even for 10
                      hours? Now, since we are multiplying, multiply that cost by 10,000,
                      which is a tiny figure when we consider some over-populated places
                      like Los Angeles, or New York City..

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Missouri Revised Statutes
                      Chapter 560
                      Fines
                      Section 560.016

                      Fines for misdemeanors and infractions.

                      560.016. 1. Except as otherwise provided for an offense outside this
                      code, a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction
                      may be sentenced to pay a fine which does not exceed:

                      (1) For a class A misdemeanor, one thousand dollars;

                      (2) For a class B misdemeanor, five hundred dollars;

                      (3) For a class C misdemeanor, three hundred dollars;

                      (4) For an infraction, two hundred dollars.

                      2. In lieu of a fine imposed under subsection 1, a person who has been
                      convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction through which he derived
                      "gain" as defined in section 560.011, may be sentenced to a fine which
                      does not exceed double the amount of gain from the commission of the
                      offense. An individual offender may be fined not more than twenty
                      thousand dollars under this provision.
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

                      To me, because I can do basic math, it just seems like it is common
                      sense that these cases are "losing propositions" for EVERYONE...


                      Rick.

                      RMRI, Inc.
                      http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                    • David O'Niell
                      I think it s fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do things like this-- ... - ... --
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                        I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                        things like this--


                        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                        > thought it was pretty interesting:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                        > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                        > treated differently?
                        >
                        > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                        > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                        > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                        > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                        >
                        > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                        > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                        > to shoplift.
                        >
                        > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                        >
                        >
                        > QUOTE
                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                        -
                        > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                        > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                        >
                        > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                        > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                        > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                        > jail.
                        >
                        > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                        > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                        > for the rest of his groceries.
                        >
                        > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                        > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                        >
                        > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                        > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                        > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                        --
                        >
                        > Full Story:
                        > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
                        >
                        > Story COMMENTS here:
                        > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Any thoughts?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Rick.
                        >
                      • Tom Eskridge
                        It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest. Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the facts not
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                          It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest.
                          Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the
                          facts not in evidence, there is a lot of assuming going on!



                          For those not educated in the area, at least in California, it is a criminal
                          offense for a cop to refuse a citizens arrest, assuming there is any degree
                          of reasonableness to the arrest.



                          This is without even opening the argument that cops should be able to decide
                          which criminal offenses are worth their effort. This is fine..until YOU'RE
                          the victim..



                          Tom Eskridge

                          Chief Operations Officer

                          High Tech Crime Institute

                          13400 Wright Cir

                          Tampa FL 33626

                          866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                          Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                          Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                          _____

                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
                          Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:22 PM
                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"




                          In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                          rmriinc@grouply. <mailto:rmriinc%40grouply.com> com writes:

                          Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                          the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                          patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                          Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                          "Cherry Pie Bandit"?

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The shelves
                          and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if every
                          Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
                          involved.
                          With that in mind, you and I would then have to pay $50/pie to make up for
                          the losses.

                          Of course a true criminal should be prosecuted regardless of how petty.
                          However, the key words are TRUE CRIMINAL.



                          Sincerely yours,
                          Sue
                          ________________________
                          Sue Sarkis
                          Sarkis Detective Agency

                          (est. 1976)
                          PI 6564
                          _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

                          1346 Ethel Street
                          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                          818-242-2505
                          818-246-3001 FAX

                          "one Nation under God"

                          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                          a military veteran

                          **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                          Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                          (http://food.
                          <http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
                          aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • suesarkis@aol.com
                          Rick - For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager? If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Rick -

                            For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager?
                            If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                            should be using common sense.

                            The opinion from the board it posted from is ridiculous, to say the least,
                            and not only not in touch with the case at hand but not in touch with the
                            times.

                            For starters, I doubt that this 79 year old man had parents to be taken to
                            by the LEO's. That is how juveniles are usually handled, even today.
                            However, since corporal punishment by parents is a felony in many states, even that
                            doesn't work like it used to. Spare the rod; spoil the child !!!

                            As I said before, in THIS case the prosecution seems a little ridiculous
                            even with a prior because they will have a very hard time trying to prove intent
                            which I believe we agree on.

                            However, the opinion presented about the prosecutions having gotten out of
                            hand is true. However, the fault does not lie with the LEO's or the
                            prosecutors but rather with the leftist, give me something for nothing general public
                            who would sue the shit out of the LEOs/prosecutors for failing to enforce the
                            law should he then have thrown the pie in someone's face or some other absurd
                            modern day tortious act.

                            It is absolutely insane that a law has to be put on the books in all 50
                            states protecting homeowners from civil litigation from a residential burglar
                            getting injured while fleeing the home because he's being chased by a watch dog.
                            However, juries have awarded large judgments for such thieves and that is
                            all because of the leftist mentality. No two ways about it. Call it
                            political if you care to; I call it asinine.

                            By the way, perhaps Missouri might increase their criminal penalties to come
                            into touch with the times. Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                            violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence purposes.
                            Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie man is.


                            Sincerely yours,
                            Sue
                            ________________________
                            Sue Sarkis
                            Sarkis Detective Agency

                            (est. 1976)
                            PI 6564
                            _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                            1346 Ethel Street
                            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                            818-242-2505
                            818-246-3001 FAX

                            "one Nation under God"

                            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                            a military veteran



                            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ricky Gurley
                            ... Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial ... purposes. ... man is. Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the conservative ... I
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                              >
                              > Rick -
                              Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                              > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                              purposes.
                              > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                              man is.


                              Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                              "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                              Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                              else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                              Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                              off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                              have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                              I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                              here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                              And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                              should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                              guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                              I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                              being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                              And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                              victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                              Police State, if you are the Police......


                              Rick.


                              RMRI, Inc.
                              http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                            • Tom Eskridge
                              I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is being enforced against the guilty, and not the maybe guilty . Rick, I see you drank the
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                                being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".



                                Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been arrested. So
                                if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to have a
                                prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...



                                Tom Eskridge

                                Chief Operations Officer

                                High Tech Crime Institute

                                13400 Wright Cir

                                Tampa FL 33626

                                866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                _____

                                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:14 PM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Rick -
                                Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                                > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                                purposes.
                                > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                                man is.

                                Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                                "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                                Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                                else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                                Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                                off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                                have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                                I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                                here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                                And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                                should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                                guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                                I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                                being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                                And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                                victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                                Police State, if you are the Police......

                                Rick.

                                RMRI, Inc.
                                http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ricky Gurley
                                ... arrested. So ... have a ... From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so you ll have a way to swallow your meds... An arrest and/or the
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                  > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                  > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                                  arrested. So
                                  > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                                  have a
                                  > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...


                                  From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                                  you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                                  An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                                  that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                                  trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                                  here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                                  as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                                  process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                                  And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                                  to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                                  Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                                  court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                                  a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                                  not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                                  was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                                  you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                                  same line of thought?


                                  Rick.


                                  RMRI, Inc.
                                  http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                • Salvatore F. Alioto
                                  In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once arrested there are
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on
                                    it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once
                                    arrested there are processing option which would have had the elderly
                                    gentleman released in a little over an hour. He would be fingerprinted,
                                    photographed and issued a summons to appear in court on a specified date
                                    to answer the charges before a judge. I don't know why it took 10 hours
                                    to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                                    enforcement.

                                    Sal

                                    ************ Discreetly Addressing Your Private Needs ************



                                    Salvatore F. Alioto

                                    Owner/Operator Able Shamus Investigations

                                    Retired Sergeant NY City Police Department



                                    Licensed by the NY State Department of State

                                    Private Investigation License # 11000101082

                                    Armed Security License # 10010514064

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                                    Proudly Serving the NY State Hudson Valley / NY City Metro / Long Island
                                    Regions

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                                    Fax # (845) 226-3629

                                    Website - http://sfapi.tripod.com/ <http://sfapi.tripod.com/>


                                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                    > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                    > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                    > treated differently?
                                    >
                                    > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                    > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                    > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                    > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                    >
                                    > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                    > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                    > to shoplift.
                                    >
                                    > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > QUOTE
                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                    > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                    >
                                    > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                    > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                    > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                    > jail.
                                    >
                                    > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                    > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                    > for the rest of his groceries.
                                    >
                                    > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                    > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                    >
                                    > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                    > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                    > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Full Story:
                                    > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
                                    >
                                    > Story COMMENTS here:
                                    > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Any thoughts?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Rick.
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • suesarkis@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sfapi59@yahoo.com writes: I don t know why it took 10 hours to process this man. Things must
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                      sfapi59@... writes:

                                      I don't know why it took 10 hours
                                      to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                                      enforcement.



                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                      Sal -

                                      I agree with your sentiment. However, depending upon where someone is
                                      booked here in Los Angeles County, it could take anywhere from an hour to 48
                                      hours. Los Angeles County jail is the largest jail in the world and trust me when
                                      I say, those civil service employees do as little as they can for as long as
                                      they can.

                                      With the inmate population being static through the years, I used to be able
                                      to get an inmate released within 2 hours on bond at CJ. Now with all their
                                      fancy, expensive computers and such it is a minimum of 10 hours and that is
                                      only if you are very, very lucky.




                                      Sincerely yours,
                                      Sue
                                      ________________________
                                      Sue Sarkis
                                      Sarkis Detective Agency

                                      (est. 1976)
                                      PI 6564
                                      _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                      1346 Ethel Street
                                      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                      818-242-2505
                                      818-246-3001 FAX

                                      "one Nation under God"

                                      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                      a military veteran



                                      **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                      Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • suesarkis@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rmriinc@grouply.com writes: Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                        rmriinc@... writes:

                                        Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                                        "conservative""conservative"<WBR>... I see nothing wrong with a "goo
                                        Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                                        else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                                        Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                                        off of his ass!


                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                        Rick -

                                        Here you go again. How can you possibly construe from anything you have
                                        EVER heard me say that could remotely make you think that I am a LIBERAL or
                                        that I would be against caning. When Bill Clinton asked for leniency for
                                        MISSOURI born and raised Michael Fay[e], I personally sent a Telex to Ong Teng
                                        Cheong (????) begging that he ignore the leniency request from Mr. Liberal
                                        himself. I've been to Singapore a couple of times and you can eat off their
                                        sidewalks they are so clean.

                                        Shoot, you get caned in Singapore for chewing gum which is outlawed. If you
                                        ever travel there, don't even think of having any in your pocket.

                                        The next time you refer to me with that ugly "L" word you'll get a lot more
                                        than a caning.

                                        Sincerely,
                                        Sue



                                        **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                        Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                        (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Tom Eskridge
                                        Rick What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its not like he s out killing 7-11 clerks. I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Rick



                                          What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its' not like he's
                                          out killing 7-11 clerks.



                                          I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where a man sat in county
                                          jail for 2 years, was found not guilty and was released from jail. Under
                                          your prior post this proved that he should not have even been arrested as he
                                          was "probably guilty" and not in fact guilty. Or in this case he was deemed
                                          not guilty.



                                          I was just pointing out how foolish your post was. How is the first
                                          responder cop to know if his/her witnesses have a grudge? Witnesses lie,
                                          exaggerate and make honest mistakes. How many people have you interviewed
                                          who claimed they saw an accident, and you determined that what they saw was
                                          the aftermath of the accident when they turned at the sound of the collision
                                          and saw cars spinning about. But in their minds they saw the "accident".



                                          And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found "guilty"
                                          in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do you do
                                          this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of arrest, then
                                          I guess no one should ever be arrested.







                                          Tom Eskridge

                                          Chief Operations Officer

                                          High Tech Crime Institute

                                          13400 Wright Cir

                                          Tampa FL 33626

                                          866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                          Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                          Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                          _____

                                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                          On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                          Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:53 PM
                                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                          --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                          > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                          > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                                          arrested. So
                                          > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                                          have a
                                          > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...

                                          From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                                          you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                                          An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                                          that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                                          trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                                          here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                                          as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                                          process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                                          And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                                          to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                                          Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                                          court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                                          a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                                          not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                                          was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                                          you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                                          same line of thought?

                                          Rick.

                                          RMRI, Inc.
                                          http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                          bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                          OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don t forget the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the
                                            trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't forget the
                                            vaseline....

                                            Gladys Brierley
                                            ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS
                                            PO Box 872
                                            Newton, MS 39345
                                            cell 601-480-3181
                                            bus & fax 601-683-2094
                                            Newton County Business License #1499
                                            Duns # 8082376
                                            _ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS | PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATIONS_
                                            (http://www.accurateinvestigation.com/)

                                            Member ACI, MPIA, APIA, NAIS
                                            _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                            (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/)
                                            _ProfessionalInvestigators : PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS_
                                            (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfessionalInvestigators/?yguid=8099974)












                                            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ricky Gurley
                                            ... from the ... forget the ... Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Glad4JC@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              > OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk
                                              from the
                                              > trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't
                                              forget the
                                              > vaseline....


                                              Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the
                                              debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on harsher
                                              punishment for offenders..

                                              Rick.


                                              RMRI, Inc.
                                              http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                            • Ricky Gurley
                                              ... guilty ... you do ... arrest, then ... You re playing games ... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment until a person can go to trial and defend
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:


                                                > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                "guilty"
                                                > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                you do
                                                > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                arrest, then
                                                > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                that, Tom?

                                                Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case; Tom.



                                                Rick.

                                                RMRI, Inc.
                                                http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                              • Gary Krisulevicz
                                                All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow..... -Gary www.bartletagency.com ... From: Ricky Gurley
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow.....
                                                  -Gary
                                                  www.bartletagency.com



                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                  From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
                                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 7:38:32 AM
                                                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                                  --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                  > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                  "guilty"
                                                  > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                  you do
                                                  > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                  arrest, then
                                                  > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                  You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                  until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                  is not a punishment.. . At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                  The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                  an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                  incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                  code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                  to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                  that, Tom?

                                                  Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                  this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                  have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                  there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                  to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                  discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                  is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                  certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                  been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                  inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                  and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                  But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                  accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                  is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                  been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                  to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                  Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                  incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                  (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                  guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                  would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                  post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                  have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                  treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                  jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                  punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                  molestation) , keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                  what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                  the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                  And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                  was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                  referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                  never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                  I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                  your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                  conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                                  Rick.

                                                  RMRI, Inc.
                                                  http://rmriinc. bestcyberinvesti gator.com






                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Tom Eskridge
                                                  Dearest Rick Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the strict enforcement of the law and punishment. You seem to be melding
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Dearest Rick



                                                    Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the
                                                    "strict enforcement of the law" and punishment. You seem to be melding them
                                                    together. The cops are charged with the "enforcement of the law". Whether
                                                    that enforcement is "strict", "liberal", "petty", or whatever else is in the
                                                    eye of the beholder.



                                                    The prosecutor is charged with prosecuting those cases in a manner that is
                                                    acceptable to the community and the court is charged with applying laws and
                                                    then punishment where appropriate. ( I took this directly from the opening
                                                    of Law and Order)



                                                    For some reason (and I'm not saying it's a bad reason) you seem to think
                                                    that the "strict enforcement of the law" only applies post a proper
                                                    conviction.



                                                    I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most if not
                                                    all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                                    initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that only
                                                    the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the cops
                                                    enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?





                                                    Tom Eskridge

                                                    Chief Operations Officer

                                                    High Tech Crime Institute

                                                    13400 Wright Cir

                                                    Tampa FL 33626

                                                    866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                                    Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                                    Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                                    _____

                                                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                                    Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:39 AM
                                                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                                    --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                    > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                    "guilty"
                                                    > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                    you do
                                                    > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                    arrest, then
                                                    > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                    You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                    until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                    is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                    The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                    an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                    incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                    code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                    to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                    that, Tom?

                                                    Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                    this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                    have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                    there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                    to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                    discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                    is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                    certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                    been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                    inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                    and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                    But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                    accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                    is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                    been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                    to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                    Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                    incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                    (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                    guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                    would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                    post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                    have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                    treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                    jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                    punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                    molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                    what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                    the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                    And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                    was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                    referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                    never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                    I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                    your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                    conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                                    Rick.

                                                    RMRI, Inc.
                                                    http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                                    bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Ricky Gurley
                                                    ... if not ... only ... cops ... I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since one of the accepted definition for enforcing the law
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                      > I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most
                                                      if not
                                                      > all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                                      > initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that
                                                      only
                                                      > the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the
                                                      cops
                                                      > enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?
                                                      >


                                                      I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since
                                                      one of the accepted definition for "enforcing the law" is what is done
                                                      by Police Officers prior to a trial.. However, let me ask you a
                                                      question. If a state statute prescribes a certain punishment or a
                                                      range of punishment for an offended that is found guilty, and a Judge
                                                      follows that "prescription for punishment" in sentencing, is the Judge
                                                      not also "enforcing the law"?

                                                      And Gary, you get kudos.. It appears you are smart enough to delete
                                                      posts you don't agree with, rather than complain about them on the
                                                      group, and how much they are taking up your precious time. Good for
                                                      you, Gary. Keep deleting those posts you don't agree with.


                                                      Rick.

                                                      RMRI, Inc.
                                                      http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                                    • bella_mafia@yahoo.com
                                                      I think in this case it was a legitimate senior moment . Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of senior moments , I think it
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                                        mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                                         
                                                        Linda Smith


                                                        Bella Mafia

                                                        --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...> wrote:

                                                        From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...>
                                                        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM






                                                        I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                                        things like this--

                                                        --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                                        > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                                        > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                                        > treated differently?
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                                        > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                                        > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                                        > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                                        >
                                                        > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                                        > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                                        > to shoplift.
                                                        >
                                                        > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > QUOTE
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                        -
                                                        > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                                        > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                                        >
                                                        > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                                        > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                                        > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                                        > jail.
                                                        >
                                                        > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                                        > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                                        > for the rest of his groceries.
                                                        >
                                                        > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                                        > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                                        >
                                                        > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                                        > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                                        > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                                        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                        --
                                                        >
                                                        > Full Story:
                                                        > http://www.sun- sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                                        >
                                                        > Story COMMENTS here:
                                                        > http://www.topix. net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Any thoughts?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Rick.
                                                        >


















                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • fjgrande@sbcglobal.net
                                                        I am in total awe. Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC P.O. Box 825 Bethel, CT 06801 Office: 203.743.6455 Fax:  203.778.2415 Toll: 877.743.6455 Email
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          I am in total awe.

                                                          Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC
                                                          P.O. Box 825
                                                          Bethel, CT 06801
                                                          Office: 203.743.6455
                                                          Fax:  203.778.2415
                                                          Toll: 877.743.6455
                                                          Email info@...
                                                          Web: www.checkmate-investigations.net
                                                          CT Lic. #A-2192,
                                                          NCISS, NAIS, CALPI
                                                          When there are no more moves, CHECKMATE!
                                                          WE ARE YOUR LAST
                                                          MOVE!
                                                           
                                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: "bella_mafia@..." <emmylousings@...>

                                                          Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:01:35
                                                          To:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                                          I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                                          mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                                           
                                                          Linda Smith

                                                          Bella Mafia

                                                          --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...> wrote:

                                                          From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...>
                                                          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                                          To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM

                                                          I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                                          things like this--

                                                          --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                                          > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                                          > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                                          > treated differently?
                                                          >
                                                          > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                                          > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                                          > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                                          > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                                          >
                                                          > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                                          > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                                          > to shoplift.
                                                          >
                                                          > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > QUOTE
                                                          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                          -
                                                          > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                                          > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                                          >
                                                          > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                                          > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                                          > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                                          > jail.
                                                          >
                                                          > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                                          > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                                          > for the rest of his groceries.
                                                          >
                                                          > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                                          > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                                          >
                                                          > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                                          > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                                          > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                                          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                          --
                                                          >
                                                          > Full Story:
                                                          > http://www.sun- <http://www.sun-> sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                                          >
                                                          > Story COMMENTS here:
                                                          > http://www.topix. <http://www.topix.> net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Any thoughts?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Rick.
                                                          >

                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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