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A "Senior Moment"

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  • Ricky Gurley
    Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I thought it was pretty interesting: When senior citizens break the law with minor
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 7, 2008
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      Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
      thought it was pretty interesting:



      When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
      be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
      treated differently?

      I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
      was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
      my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
      citizens should be treated in similar situations.

      Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
      and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
      to shoplift.

      What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?


      QUOTE
      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
      for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.

      Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
      apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
      and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
      jail.

      His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
      that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
      for the rest of his groceries.

      His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
      Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.

      Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
      before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
      the latest incident a misunderstanding.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------

      Full Story:
      http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story

      Story COMMENTS here:
      http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU



      Any thoughts?




      Rick.
    • Glad4JC@aol.com
      Gladys Brierley ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS PO Box 872 Newton, MS 39345 cell 601-480-3181 bus & fax 601-683-2094 Newton County Business License #1499 Duns #
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 7, 2008
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        Gladys Brierley
        ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS
        PO Box 872
        Newton, MS 39345
        cell 601-480-3181
        bus & fax 601-683-2094
        Newton County Business License #1499
        Duns # 8082376
        _ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS | PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATIONS_
        (http://www.accurateinvestigation.com/)

        Member ACI, MPIA, APIA, NAIS
        _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
        (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/)
        _ProfessionalInvestigators : PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS_
        (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfessionalInvestigators/?yguid=8099974)












        **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
        Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suesarkis@aol.com
        Rick - The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been noticed by the
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 7, 2008
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          Rick -

          The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO
          PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been noticed by the
          staff. Shoot, I've done the same thing and I'm not quite that old.

          Sue



          **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
          Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
          (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ricky Gurley
          ... noticed by the ... I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
            >
            > Rick -
            >
            > The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO
            > PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been
            noticed by the
            > staff. Shoot, I've done the same thing and I'm not quite that old.
            >
            > Sue

            I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make
            concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
            plain site (in the grocery cart) goes towards showing a lack of
            "intent to deprive another person or entity of their property".

            I got some gas at a convenience store up the road from me about 4
            months ago, and I bought a bunch of snacks, drinks, and such. Well, of
            course convenience stores are "high priced" when it comes to
            groceries, and I was in a hurry to get home. Well, the clerk did NOT
            charge me for the gas. I did not think anything of it, it did not even
            register when I gave the clerk my credit card. The next day I was
            doing the books, and I caught the error. So, I called the convenience
            store, and informed the store manager that I owed them approximately
            $40.00. The store manager told me the clerk came up short that much
            and she was going to terminate his employment. I asked her to hold off
            until I got there and paid the bill The store is less than a 1/4 of a
            mile from my house. So, I drove up to the store, and I paid the
            $40.00, and I told the store manager that this was as much my fault as
            it was the clerk's, and that I thought that firing the clerk over this
            was a little harsh. The store manager apparently is not known in the
            store as being the "nicest store manager in the world"; and let me
            know in no uncertain terms that the clerk was going to lose his job.
            So, I went home, called the corporate headquarters and raised holy
            hell about this. The clerk DID keep his job. So, in my view this was
            also my fault for not paying attention and allowing this to happen.
            Thankfully I was able to rectify my mistake and keep a person from
            losing his job. Now, I am 41 years old (then I was 40. LOL.), I have
            no "memory problem excuse" (maybe in another 40 years?).

            Now, at this man's age (79 years old) I think the prudent thing to do
            is "cut him a break"; and just make him go back and pay for the pie.

            But there is another consideration here too..

            EVEN if this man had the intent to STEAL this pie.. Do we really want
            our tax dollars going towards the Police chasing "The Great Cherry Pie
            Bandit"? Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
            the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
            patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
            Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
            "Cherry Pie Bandit"? I don't know about Florida, but here in Missouri
            Law Enforcement Officers do have discretion on whether or not to
            charge for incidents like this. If the man's intent WAS to steal the
            pie, then a little "public humiliation" by making him go back and pay
            for the pie and apologize for not paying for it in the first place
            would have sufficed, in my personal opinion.

            I think the Officer that charged this offense is a "dipstick". What he
            did just does not add us to good common and/or business sense to me;
            in my personal opinion..


            Rick.
          • Gary Krisulevicz
            In Texas it would have been a Class C misdemeanor unless he has 2 prior convictions in which case it would be a felony, even for the 5 buck pie. In this story
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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              In Texas it would have been a Class C misdemeanor unless he has 2 prior convictions in which case it would be a felony, even for the 5 buck pie. In this story intent seems to be missing which is an integral part of the elements of the crime. The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the officer booking him says to me this may be more true than what we are looking at. The class C offense is a ticket-able release, to haul some old guy in for 5 bucks tells me there is a lot missing from the story. Trust me when I say this - being a retired Texas LEO - if you can get an arrest on the book without all the paperwork and procedures it takes to physically arrest him and transport - they would have given a ticket in a minute. Both count the same on the daily.
               
              Crooks come in all shapes and sizes and ages....Just my 2 cents worth.
               
              -Gary
              www.bartletagency.com



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2008 10:57:51 AM
              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


              --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, suesarkis@.. . wrote:
              >
              > Rick -
              >
              > The fact that he paid for the rest of the groceries indicates to me NO
              > PREMEDITATION. He knew full well that the pie might have been
              noticed by the
              > staff. Shoot, I've done the same thing and I'm not quite that old.
              >
              > Sue

              I completely agree.. I also think that the point that you make
              concerning his purchase of the other groceries and the pie being in
              plain site (in the grocery cart) goes towards showing a lack of
              "intent to deprive another person or entity of their property".

              I got some gas at a convenience store up the road from me about 4
              months ago, and I bought a bunch of snacks, drinks, and such. Well, of
              course convenience stores are "high priced" when it comes to
              groceries, and I was in a hurry to get home. Well, the clerk did NOT
              charge me for the gas. I did not think anything of it, it did not even
              register when I gave the clerk my credit card. The next day I was
              doing the books, and I caught the error. So, I called the convenience
              store, and informed the store manager that I owed them approximately
              $40.00. The store manager told me the clerk came up short that much
              and she was going to terminate his employment. I asked her to hold off
              until I got there and paid the bill The store is less than a 1/4 of a
              mile from my house. So, I drove up to the store, and I paid the
              $40.00, and I told the store manager that this was as much my fault as
              it was the clerk's, and that I thought that firing the clerk over this
              was a little harsh. The store manager apparently is not known in the
              store as being the "nicest store manager in the world"; and let me
              know in no uncertain terms that the clerk was going to lose his job.
              So, I went home, called the corporate headquarters and raised holy
              hell about this. The clerk DID keep his job. So, in my view this was
              also my fault for not paying attention and allowing this to happen.
              Thankfully I was able to rectify my mistake and keep a person from
              losing his job. Now, I am 41 years old (then I was 40. LOL.), I have
              no "memory problem excuse" (maybe in another 40 years?).

              Now, at this man's age (79 years old) I think the prudent thing to do
              is "cut him a break"; and just make him go back and pay for the pie.

              But there is another consideration here too..

              EVEN if this man had the intent to STEAL this pie.. Do we really want
              our tax dollars going towards the Police chasing "The Great Cherry Pie
              Bandit"? Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
              the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
              patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
              Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
              "Cherry Pie Bandit"? I don't know about Florida, but here in Missouri
              Law Enforcement Officers do have discretion on whether or not to
              charge for incidents like this. If the man's intent WAS to steal the
              pie, then a little "public humiliation" by making him go back and pay
              for the pie and apologize for not paying for it in the first place
              would have sufficed, in my personal opinion.

              I think the Officer that charged this offense is a "dipstick". What he
              did just does not add us to good common and/or business sense to me;
              in my personal opinion..

              Rick.






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • suesarkis@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rmriinc@grouply.com writes: Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing the
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                rmriinc@... writes:

                Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                "Cherry Pie Bandit"?


                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The shelves
                and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if every
                Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost involved.
                With that in mind, you and I would then have to pay $50/pie to make up for
                the losses.

                Of course a true criminal should be prosecuted regardless of how petty.
                However, the key words are TRUE CRIMINAL.



                Sincerely yours,
                Sue
                ________________________
                Sue Sarkis
                Sarkis Detective Agency

                (est. 1976)
                PI 6564
                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                1346 Ethel Street
                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                818-242-2505
                818-246-3001 FAX

                "one Nation under God"

                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                a military veteran



                **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • suesarkis@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:22:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bartletagency@yahoo.com writes: The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                  In a message dated 6/8/2008 8:22:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                  bartletagency@... writes:

                  The fact that the story mentions he has stolen before and the officer
                  booking him says to me this may be more true than what we are looking at.


                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  Gary -

                  Since we don't know the circumstances of the previous petty, we cannot truly
                  presume anything. However, I likened it to just another overzealous LEO not
                  giving any consideration for Allzheimer's or even Halfzheimer's !!!
                  (emphasis added, misspelling intentional)



                  Sincerely yours,
                  Sue
                  ________________________
                  Sue Sarkis
                  Sarkis Detective Agency

                  (est. 1976)
                  PI 6564
                  _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                  1346 Ethel Street
                  Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                  818-242-2505
                  818-246-3001 FAX

                  "one Nation under God"

                  If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                  a military veteran



                  **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                  Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                  (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ricky Gurley
                  ... shelves ... every ... involved. Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to multiply the effect of the cherry pie thefts and
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                    > rmriinc@... writes:
                    >
                    > Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                    > the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                    > patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                    > Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                    > "Cherry Pie Bandit"?
                    >
                    >
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    >
                    > Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The
                    shelves
                    > and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if
                    every
                    > Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
                    involved.


                    Well, I think it is fair to put this into context, if we are going to
                    multiply the effect of the "cherry pie thefts" and assume a certain
                    result from such multiplication practices..

                    Our economy would be far worse than it is now if every "Cherry Pie
                    Bandit" and the like were to be prosecuted at thousands of dollars per
                    case for a $5.00 pie theft, our taxes would skyrocket just to pay the
                    Prosecutor's Office..

                    And while you are getting robbed at gunpoint, the Police Officer that
                    could be saving you from this, will be at the local jail processing
                    the "Cherry Pie Bandits" by the dozen..

                    And the murder, rape and robbery cases, would not get as much time in
                    court as the "cherry pie thefts"...

                    I spoke with a friend of mine that is a deputy sheriff here in Boone
                    County, and she has been with the Sheriff's Dept. for about 12 years
                    now. The first thing she said about this situation is that the Officer
                    was not very bright, and he is probably getting quite a bit of "flack"
                    from his fellow officers for this.. The second thing that she said was
                    that even in Boone County where the crime rate is really not that bad,
                    it is still a foolish waste of resources to charge someone for this.
                    And the third thing she said is that here in Missouri it is not
                    necessary to charge in these cases, LEOs have the discretion to make
                    the person go back and pay for the merchandise; whatever it may be.
                    And LEOs are expected to wisely use that discretion being that
                    fingerprinting someone for this alone costs more than the value of the
                    pie.. Who does the cost get passed off to when there are not enough
                    resources to handle the serious criminal infractions?

                    So, I think that the wise use of discretion is called for in this
                    scenario...


                    Rick.


                    RMRI, Inc.
                    http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                  • suesarkis@aol.com
                    Rick - sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO s and the legislature of all states. Now, let s set aside the fact that in THIS case with
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                      Rick -

                      sorry but I strongly disagree and so do the courts, most LEO's and the
                      legislature
                      of all states. Now, let's set aside the fact that in THIS case with the
                      cherry pie
                      bandit, only a fool would pursue this particular matter.

                      For starters, in most states Petty Theft is not an infraction but rather a
                      misdemeanor.
                      In some states, enough of the misdemeanors convictions such as 3 or 4 will
                      amount
                      to a felony. It's commonly referred to as a "petty with a prior". I cannot
                      speak about
                      the sentencing laws of Missouri but I sure as heck can about CA.
                      Sentencing can
                      be financially stiff and then the monies are divided by a pre-set formula
                      between the
                      prosecutors, the LEO's, the judiciary, etc.

                      Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your very
                      liberal attitude
                      and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime has
                      gone amok?
                      I don't; it's quite obvious.



                      Sincerely yours,
                      Sue
                      ________________________
                      Sue Sarkis
                      Sarkis Detective Agency

                      (est. 1976)
                      PI 6564
                      _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                      1346 Ethel Street
                      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                      818-242-2505
                      818-246-3001 FAX

                      "one Nation under God"

                      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                      a military veteran



                      **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                      Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • akamscluso@aol.com
                      HI My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn t find my cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                        HI

                        My favorite senior moment (and Im not yet quite a senior).I couldn't find my
                        cell phone, so I called the number to see if I could hear where I might have
                        placed it. Turns out it was in my car which Robert had taken to go get gas.
                        Seeing on the caller ID it was me he picks up the phone and says Hello. Here's
                        the senior moment part. I say to him, I can't find my cell, so if you see
                        it anywhere in the car, let me know. He laughs and says sure will, honey. It
                        wasn't til after I got t off the phone did I realize what a stupid thing I just
                        did. Bless Robert's heaart, he just smiled a Sh*&^T eating grin, when he
                        handed me my phone and said...The phone was in the car, dear. And nothing else
                        was ever said about it.

                        Sherry Howard
                        Howard & Assoc
                        pi#19910



                        **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                        Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                        (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ricky Gurley
                        ... very ... has ... We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from ... Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:

                          > Take a look around at the nation about you. Then think about your
                          very
                          > liberal attitude
                          > and that of the deputy sheriff you spoke with. You wonder why crime
                          has
                          > gone amok?
                          > I don't; it's quite obvious.

                          We are probably hopelessly divided here... Here is one opinion from
                          the board that this post came from:

                          -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Law enforcement used to use their resources a little more wisely.
                          There weren't near as many prosecutions for dumb ###### back then. You
                          got in trouble and the sheriff would generally visit your parents and
                          scare you into not doing that ######, whatever it was, again. Case closed.

                          I think that prosecuting the cherry pie thief is just another sign of
                          the times of a punitive, law and order society, that has gotten out of
                          hand.
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          http://board.columbiatribune.com/index.php?showtopic=6359&pid=70350&st=0&#entry70350


                          And that board has about an equal amount of opinions on both sides.. I
                          think it is a fair representation of how society is divided about
                          issues like this one.

                          I suppose on some things I have a liberal attitude and on others I
                          have a conservative attitude.. But.. Those are political terms, and
                          I'd at least like to believe that I am not a "political person".. I'd
                          prefer to say that on some things I think common sense should be
                          exercised and other things require a certain harshness..

                          Here, in Missouri he'd get a fine of approximately $200.00, and he'd
                          have to pay $72.00 in court costs and he'd have to pay double the cost
                          for the pie; a grand total of $282.00; assuming this would be charged
                          as an infraction (which in this case or any case like it, it would;
                          due to the difficulty in proving intent). That would not even pay for
                          two hours of a decent attorney's time, or mine for that matter..
                          Summing up the average yearly income for a Prosecutor and pulling that
                          down to an hourly figure, that is less than 20 hours of a Prosecutor's
                          time. A Prosecutor will spend about 20 hours, maybe a little less on
                          this case.. What about the filing fees? What about the processing
                          expense? What about the housing expense at the jail; if even for 10
                          hours? Now, since we are multiplying, multiply that cost by 10,000,
                          which is a tiny figure when we consider some over-populated places
                          like Los Angeles, or New York City..

                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Missouri Revised Statutes
                          Chapter 560
                          Fines
                          Section 560.016

                          Fines for misdemeanors and infractions.

                          560.016. 1. Except as otherwise provided for an offense outside this
                          code, a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction
                          may be sentenced to pay a fine which does not exceed:

                          (1) For a class A misdemeanor, one thousand dollars;

                          (2) For a class B misdemeanor, five hundred dollars;

                          (3) For a class C misdemeanor, three hundred dollars;

                          (4) For an infraction, two hundred dollars.

                          2. In lieu of a fine imposed under subsection 1, a person who has been
                          convicted of a misdemeanor or infraction through which he derived
                          "gain" as defined in section 560.011, may be sentenced to a fine which
                          does not exceed double the amount of gain from the commission of the
                          offense. An individual offender may be fined not more than twenty
                          thousand dollars under this provision.
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------

                          To me, because I can do basic math, it just seems like it is common
                          sense that these cases are "losing propositions" for EVERYONE...


                          Rick.

                          RMRI, Inc.
                          http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                        • David O'Niell
                          I think it s fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do things like this-- ... - ... --
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
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                            I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                            things like this--


                            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                            > thought it was pretty interesting:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                            > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                            > treated differently?
                            >
                            > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                            > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                            > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                            > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                            >
                            > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                            > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                            > to shoplift.
                            >
                            > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                            >
                            >
                            > QUOTE
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -
                            > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                            > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                            >
                            > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                            > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                            > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                            > jail.
                            >
                            > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                            > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                            > for the rest of his groceries.
                            >
                            > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                            > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                            >
                            > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                            > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                            > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            --
                            >
                            > Full Story:
                            > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
                            >
                            > Story COMMENTS here:
                            > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Any thoughts?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Rick.
                            >
                          • Tom Eskridge
                            It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest. Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the facts not
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              It is also possible that the victim demanded and made a citizens arrest.
                              Then with priors, the cop had a felon and had no real choice. With all the
                              facts not in evidence, there is a lot of assuming going on!



                              For those not educated in the area, at least in California, it is a criminal
                              offense for a cop to refuse a citizens arrest, assuming there is any degree
                              of reasonableness to the arrest.



                              This is without even opening the argument that cops should be able to decide
                              which criminal offenses are worth their effort. This is fine..until YOU'RE
                              the victim..



                              Tom Eskridge

                              Chief Operations Officer

                              High Tech Crime Institute

                              13400 Wright Cir

                              Tampa FL 33626

                              866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                              Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                              Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                              _____

                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
                              Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:22 PM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"




                              In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:58:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                              rmriinc@grouply. <mailto:rmriinc%40grouply.com> com writes:

                              Do we really want an Officer off of the street and processing
                              the "Cherry Pie Bandit" at the local county jail; when he could be
                              patrolling for more serious infractions? Do we really want our
                              Prosecutor spending thousands of tax payer dollars on prosecuting the
                              "Cherry Pie Bandit"?

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                              Rick - The answer to that question is an unequivocal YES !!!! The shelves
                              and freezers would be wiped bare from every store in this nation if every
                              Tom, Dick and Harry knew they wouldn't be prosecuted due to the cost
                              involved.
                              With that in mind, you and I would then have to pay $50/pie to make up for
                              the losses.

                              Of course a true criminal should be prosecuted regardless of how petty.
                              However, the key words are TRUE CRIMINAL.



                              Sincerely yours,
                              Sue
                              ________________________
                              Sue Sarkis
                              Sarkis Detective Agency

                              (est. 1976)
                              PI 6564
                              _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

                              1346 Ethel Street
                              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                              818-242-2505
                              818-246-3001 FAX

                              "one Nation under God"

                              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                              a military veteran

                              **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                              Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                              (http://food.
                              <http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>
                              aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • suesarkis@aol.com
                              Rick - For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager? If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Rick -

                                For starters, what caused the arrest? Was it the store owner or manager?
                                If so, the police had no choice. However, even they (store owner/manager)
                                should be using common sense.

                                The opinion from the board it posted from is ridiculous, to say the least,
                                and not only not in touch with the case at hand but not in touch with the
                                times.

                                For starters, I doubt that this 79 year old man had parents to be taken to
                                by the LEO's. That is how juveniles are usually handled, even today.
                                However, since corporal punishment by parents is a felony in many states, even that
                                doesn't work like it used to. Spare the rod; spoil the child !!!

                                As I said before, in THIS case the prosecution seems a little ridiculous
                                even with a prior because they will have a very hard time trying to prove intent
                                which I believe we agree on.

                                However, the opinion presented about the prosecutions having gotten out of
                                hand is true. However, the fault does not lie with the LEO's or the
                                prosecutors but rather with the leftist, give me something for nothing general public
                                who would sue the shit out of the LEOs/prosecutors for failing to enforce the
                                law should he then have thrown the pie in someone's face or some other absurd
                                modern day tortious act.

                                It is absolutely insane that a law has to be put on the books in all 50
                                states protecting homeowners from civil litigation from a residential burglar
                                getting injured while fleeing the home because he's being chased by a watch dog.
                                However, juries have awarded large judgments for such thieves and that is
                                all because of the leftist mentality. No two ways about it. Call it
                                political if you care to; I call it asinine.

                                By the way, perhaps Missouri might increase their criminal penalties to come
                                into touch with the times. Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                                violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence purposes.
                                Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie man is.


                                Sincerely yours,
                                Sue
                                ________________________
                                Sue Sarkis
                                Sarkis Detective Agency

                                (est. 1976)
                                PI 6564
                                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                1346 Ethel Street
                                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                818-242-2505
                                818-246-3001 FAX

                                "one Nation under God"

                                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                a military veteran



                                **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ricky Gurley
                                ... Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial ... purposes. ... man is. Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the conservative ... I
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Rick -
                                  Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                                  > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                                  purposes.
                                  > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                                  man is.


                                  Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                                  "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                                  Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                                  else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                                  Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                                  off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                                  have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                                  I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                                  here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                                  And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                                  should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                                  guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                                  I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                                  being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                                  And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                                  victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                                  Police State, if you are the Police......


                                  Rick.


                                  RMRI, Inc.
                                  http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                • Tom Eskridge
                                  I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is being enforced against the guilty, and not the maybe guilty . Rick, I see you drank the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                                    being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".



                                    Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                    crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been arrested. So
                                    if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to have a
                                    prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...



                                    Tom Eskridge

                                    Chief Operations Officer

                                    High Tech Crime Institute

                                    13400 Wright Cir

                                    Tampa FL 33626

                                    866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                    Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                    Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                    _____

                                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                    Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:14 PM
                                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                    --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Rick -
                                    Prosecuting for what might appear to be trivial
                                    > violations of the law are done for recidivism and deterrence
                                    purposes.
                                    > Lawbreakers are lawbreakers. However, I don't think the cherry pie
                                    man is.

                                    Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                                    "conservative"... I see nothing wrong with a "good old fashioned
                                    Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                                    else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                                    Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                                    off of his ass! Had this happened to me, I am sure that I would not
                                    have gotten in as much trouble as I did when I was a younger man.. Now
                                    I am not saying this is applicable in the situation we are discussing
                                    here, but for the purpose of deterring crime, it IS applicable.

                                    And, while I am at it.. The castle doctrine is a VERY fine thing.. It
                                    should be even more liberal than what it is.. This would make the "bad
                                    guys" think a little more about invading someone's home..

                                    I have no problem with a strict enforcement code, as long as it is
                                    being enforced against the guilty, and not the "maybe guilty".

                                    And Thomas Eskridge. just as sure as it would be fine until I am the
                                    victim remember this; there is absolutely NOTHING bad at all about a
                                    Police State, if you are the Police......

                                    Rick.

                                    RMRI, Inc.
                                    http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                    bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Ricky Gurley
                                    ... arrested. So ... have a ... From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so you ll have a way to swallow your meds... An arrest and/or the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                      > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                      > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                                      arrested. So
                                      > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                                      have a
                                      > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...


                                      From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                                      you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                                      An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                                      that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                                      trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                                      here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                                      as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                                      process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                                      And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                                      to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                                      Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                                      court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                                      a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                                      not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                                      was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                                      you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                                      same line of thought?


                                      Rick.


                                      RMRI, Inc.
                                      http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                    • Salvatore F. Alioto
                                      In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once arrested there are
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        In New York, in a shoplifting situation if the store manager insists on
                                        it the police officer is obligated to make an arrest, however, once
                                        arrested there are processing option which would have had the elderly
                                        gentleman released in a little over an hour. He would be fingerprinted,
                                        photographed and issued a summons to appear in court on a specified date
                                        to answer the charges before a judge. I don't know why it took 10 hours
                                        to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                                        enforcement.

                                        Sal

                                        ************ Discreetly Addressing Your Private Needs ************



                                        Salvatore F. Alioto

                                        Owner/Operator Able Shamus Investigations

                                        Retired Sergeant NY City Police Department



                                        Licensed by the NY State Department of State

                                        Private Investigation License # 11000101082

                                        Armed Security License # 10010514064

                                        Notary Public Commission # 01AL6083412



                                        Proudly Serving the NY State Hudson Valley / NY City Metro / Long Island
                                        Regions

                                        Phone # (845) 656-4027

                                        Fax # (845) 226-3629

                                        Website - http://sfapi.tripod.com/ <http://sfapi.tripod.com/>


                                        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                        > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                        > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                        > treated differently?
                                        >
                                        > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                        > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                        > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                        > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                        >
                                        > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                        > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                        > to shoplift.
                                        >
                                        > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > QUOTE
                                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                        > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                        >
                                        > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                        > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                        > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                        > jail.
                                        >
                                        > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                        > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                        > for the rest of his groceries.
                                        >
                                        > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                        > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                        >
                                        > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                        > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                        > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Full Story:
                                        > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-530pie,0,2371195.story
                                        >
                                        > Story COMMENTS here:
                                        > http://www.topix.net/forum/source/south-fl...EASAK4QEEUVLLJU
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Any thoughts?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Rick.
                                        >




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • suesarkis@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sfapi59@yahoo.com writes: I don t know why it took 10 hours to process this man. Things must
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          In a message dated 6/8/2008 7:26:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                          sfapi59@... writes:

                                          I don't know why it took 10 hours
                                          to process this man. Things must be very different in Florida law
                                          enforcement.



                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                          Sal -

                                          I agree with your sentiment. However, depending upon where someone is
                                          booked here in Los Angeles County, it could take anywhere from an hour to 48
                                          hours. Los Angeles County jail is the largest jail in the world and trust me when
                                          I say, those civil service employees do as little as they can for as long as
                                          they can.

                                          With the inmate population being static through the years, I used to be able
                                          to get an inmate released within 2 hours on bond at CJ. Now with all their
                                          fancy, expensive computers and such it is a minimum of 10 hours and that is
                                          only if you are very, very lucky.




                                          Sincerely yours,
                                          Sue
                                          ________________________
                                          Sue Sarkis
                                          Sarkis Detective Agency

                                          (est. 1976)
                                          PI 6564
                                          _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                          1346 Ethel Street
                                          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                          818-242-2505
                                          818-246-3001 FAX

                                          "one Nation under God"

                                          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                          a military veteran



                                          **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                          Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                          (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • suesarkis@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rmriinc@grouply.com writes: Now see, here is where you are the liberal and I am the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 8, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In a message dated 6/8/2008 4:14:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                            rmriinc@... writes:

                                            Now see, here is where you are the "liberal" and I am the
                                            "conservative""conservative"<WBR>... I see nothing wrong with a "goo
                                            Singaporian caning" for the TRUE thief that has no regard for someone
                                            else's property.. Wanna decrease recidivism and deter such behavior?
                                            Take the offender to the court house, draw a crowd and take some skin
                                            off of his ass!


                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                            Rick -

                                            Here you go again. How can you possibly construe from anything you have
                                            EVER heard me say that could remotely make you think that I am a LIBERAL or
                                            that I would be against caning. When Bill Clinton asked for leniency for
                                            MISSOURI born and raised Michael Fay[e], I personally sent a Telex to Ong Teng
                                            Cheong (????) begging that he ignore the leniency request from Mr. Liberal
                                            himself. I've been to Singapore a couple of times and you can eat off their
                                            sidewalks they are so clean.

                                            Shoot, you get caned in Singapore for chewing gum which is outlawed. If you
                                            ever travel there, don't even think of having any in your pocket.

                                            The next time you refer to me with that ugly "L" word you'll get a lot more
                                            than a caning.

                                            Sincerely,
                                            Sue



                                            **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                            Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                            (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Tom Eskridge
                                            Rick What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its not like he s out killing 7-11 clerks. I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Rick



                                              What in my post makes you think I have a problem with OJ? Its' not like he's
                                              out killing 7-11 clerks.



                                              I was simply pointing out a high profile case, where a man sat in county
                                              jail for 2 years, was found not guilty and was released from jail. Under
                                              your prior post this proved that he should not have even been arrested as he
                                              was "probably guilty" and not in fact guilty. Or in this case he was deemed
                                              not guilty.



                                              I was just pointing out how foolish your post was. How is the first
                                              responder cop to know if his/her witnesses have a grudge? Witnesses lie,
                                              exaggerate and make honest mistakes. How many people have you interviewed
                                              who claimed they saw an accident, and you determined that what they saw was
                                              the aftermath of the accident when they turned at the sound of the collision
                                              and saw cars spinning about. But in their minds they saw the "accident".



                                              And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found "guilty"
                                              in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do you do
                                              this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of arrest, then
                                              I guess no one should ever be arrested.







                                              Tom Eskridge

                                              Chief Operations Officer

                                              High Tech Crime Institute

                                              13400 Wright Cir

                                              Tampa FL 33626

                                              866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                              Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                              Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                              _____

                                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                              On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                              Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:53 PM
                                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                              --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                              > Rick, I see you drank the Kool Aid..As OJ Simpson is "not guilty" of the
                                              > crime of double homicide, he obviously should have never been
                                              arrested. So
                                              > if "only the guilty" are arrested, there is really no good reason to
                                              have a
                                              > prosecution. Street justice.I love the idea...

                                              From the looks of your post you should get some Kool Aid Tom; so
                                              you'll have a way to swallow your meds...

                                              An arrest and/or the incarceration of a person is not a punishment,
                                              that is why a person is free to make bail in most cases before the
                                              trial.... Because they are innocent until proven guilty... My point
                                              here is that I have no problem with a strict enforcement of the law,
                                              as long as the person it is being applied to has been granted due
                                              process, has been to court, and is proven guilty and convicted...

                                              And OJ Simpson is NOT guilty of the crime of double homicide according
                                              to the Judicial Standards that YOU swore to uphold when you were a
                                              Police Officer; Tom! He was never PROVEN guilty of the crime in a
                                              court of law... Let me ask you something Tom, why is it when there is
                                              a possibility that an innocent man went to prison for a murder he did
                                              not commit, the common saying is that "The Jury did their job and this
                                              was their verdict, and that is good enough for me", but when someone
                                              you perceive as guilty is acquitted you are not so willing to use the
                                              same line of thought?

                                              Rick.

                                              RMRI, Inc.
                                              http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                              bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                              OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don t forget the
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk from the
                                                trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't forget the
                                                vaseline....

                                                Gladys Brierley
                                                ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS
                                                PO Box 872
                                                Newton, MS 39345
                                                cell 601-480-3181
                                                bus & fax 601-683-2094
                                                Newton County Business License #1499
                                                Duns # 8082376
                                                _ACCURATE INVESTIGATIONS | PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATIONS_
                                                (http://www.accurateinvestigation.com/)

                                                Member ACI, MPIA, APIA, NAIS
                                                _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                                (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/)
                                                _ProfessionalInvestigators : PROFESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS_
                                                (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfessionalInvestigators/?yguid=8099974)












                                                **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                                                Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                                                (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Ricky Gurley
                                                ... from the ... forget the ... Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Glad4JC@... wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > OK Sue & Rick, get back into your corners and get some pep talk
                                                  from the
                                                  > trainer....remember to use the cut guy, and for goodness sake don't
                                                  forget the
                                                  > vaseline....


                                                  Gladys, you are too late.. I think Sue and I have dispensed with the
                                                  debate and found common ground... We both seem to agree on harsher
                                                  punishment for offenders..

                                                  Rick.


                                                  RMRI, Inc.
                                                  http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                                • Ricky Gurley
                                                  ... guilty ... you do ... arrest, then ... You re playing games ... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment until a person can go to trial and defend
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:


                                                    > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                    "guilty"
                                                    > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                    you do
                                                    > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                    arrest, then
                                                    > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                    You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                    until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                    is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                    The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                    an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                    incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                    code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                    to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                    that, Tom?

                                                    Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                    this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                    have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                    there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                    to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                    discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                    is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                    certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                    been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                    inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                    and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                    But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                    accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                    is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                    been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                    to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                    Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                    incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                    (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                    guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                    would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                    post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                    have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                    treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                    jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                    punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                    molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                    what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                    the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                    And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                    was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                    referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                    never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                    I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                    your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                    conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case; Tom.



                                                    Rick.

                                                    RMRI, Inc.
                                                    http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                                  • Gary Krisulevicz
                                                    All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow..... -Gary www.bartletagency.com ... From: Ricky Gurley
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      All I can say is thank god for the ability for multiple message deletes on this thing. Wow.....
                                                      -Gary
                                                      www.bartletagency.com



                                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                                      From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
                                                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Monday, June 9, 2008 7:38:32 AM
                                                      Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                                      --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                      > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                      "guilty"
                                                      > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                      you do
                                                      > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                      arrest, then
                                                      > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                      You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                      until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                      is not a punishment.. . At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                      The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                      an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                      incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                      code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                      to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                      that, Tom?

                                                      Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                      this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                      have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                      there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                      to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                      discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                      is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                      certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                      been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                      inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                      and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                      But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                      accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                      is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                      been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                      to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                      Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                      incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                      (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                      guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                      would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                      post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                      have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                      treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                      jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                      punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                      molestation) , keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                      what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                      the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                      And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                      was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                      referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                      never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                      I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                      your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                      conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                                      Rick.

                                                      RMRI, Inc.
                                                      http://rmriinc. bestcyberinvesti gator.com






                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Tom Eskridge
                                                      Dearest Rick Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the strict enforcement of the law and punishment. You seem to be melding
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Dearest Rick



                                                        Perhaps I am playing with semantics..or perhaps your confused between the
                                                        "strict enforcement of the law" and punishment. You seem to be melding them
                                                        together. The cops are charged with the "enforcement of the law". Whether
                                                        that enforcement is "strict", "liberal", "petty", or whatever else is in the
                                                        eye of the beholder.



                                                        The prosecutor is charged with prosecuting those cases in a manner that is
                                                        acceptable to the community and the court is charged with applying laws and
                                                        then punishment where appropriate. ( I took this directly from the opening
                                                        of Law and Order)



                                                        For some reason (and I'm not saying it's a bad reason) you seem to think
                                                        that the "strict enforcement of the law" only applies post a proper
                                                        conviction.



                                                        I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most if not
                                                        all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                                        initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that only
                                                        the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the cops
                                                        enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?





                                                        Tom Eskridge

                                                        Chief Operations Officer

                                                        High Tech Crime Institute

                                                        13400 Wright Cir

                                                        Tampa FL 33626

                                                        866-279-6295/813-854-2223

                                                        Retired Redondo Beach CA PD Lieutenant

                                                        Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business



                                                        _____

                                                        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                                        On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                                        Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:39 AM
                                                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"



                                                        --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                        > And again in this post, you demand that the person has to be found
                                                        "guilty"
                                                        > in order to justify "strict enforcement of the law".How the heck do
                                                        you do
                                                        > this. And as no one can guarantee a conviction at the point of
                                                        arrest, then
                                                        > I guess no one should ever be arrested.

                                                        You're "playing games"... The fact is, that arrest and and detainment
                                                        until a person can go to trial and defend their self against charges
                                                        is not a punishment... At least that is the Judicial System's view...
                                                        The fact is that in most cases (barring capitol cases), a person has
                                                        an opportunity to make bail and get out of jail, if they are
                                                        incarcerated before they go to trial. So, yes I agree with a strict
                                                        code of enforcement after a trial has been had and the person is found
                                                        to be guilty in a court of law. What is so hard to understand about
                                                        that, Tom?

                                                        Do you not understand the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? Is
                                                        this a new concept for you? Law Enforcement has to do it's job. They
                                                        have to patrol for and investigate crime. In doing so, if they find
                                                        there is evidence that a crime has been committed they are obligated
                                                        to take action. I see nothing wrong with giving Law Enforcement some
                                                        discretion on minor crimes, like criminal infractions. However, there
                                                        is CERTAINLY a need to give arrest power to Law Enforcement, and
                                                        certainly a need to insure the appearance of the defendant once he has
                                                        been arrested and charged. Again, this is not punishment. Is it
                                                        inconvenient for the person that is not guilty (after he goes to court
                                                        and proves it, Tom)? YES! Is being arrested and jailed pleasant? NO!
                                                        But these are part of a necessary process in order to hold criminals
                                                        accountable for the crimes they commit. Still, after all of that, it
                                                        is NOT punishment, at that point in time before trial no Judgment has
                                                        been passed, and the defendant, in most cases is given an opportunity
                                                        to free himself and return to his everyday life until he can go to trial.

                                                        Ideally, the THIEF would be arrested for theft, booked, and then
                                                        incarcerated until he could make bail. This is not a punishment
                                                        (AGAIN, Tom). And then he would go to trial, and if he is found not
                                                        guilty, then he would go home, and if he is found guilty, then he
                                                        would be taken to the courthouse steps with a crowd in tow, tied to a
                                                        post, have his pants pulled down, have his ass bared to the crowd, and
                                                        have someone take some skin off of his ass, given the proper medical
                                                        treatment if it is needed, and allowed to recuperate in the county
                                                        jail, and then sent home (Ohh, and by the way Tom, NOW that's
                                                        punishment). In the case of heinous crimes (murder, rape, child
                                                        molestation), keep the pants up and use bullets LIBERALLY! That is
                                                        what I personally believe would be an effective deterrent to some of
                                                        the STUPID crimes we are seeing these days.

                                                        And Sue, my sincerest apologies.. I had heard that the word "Liberal"
                                                        was a bad word and many people have great disdain towards being
                                                        referred to as that, but I never knew it was that bad.. I promise to
                                                        never call you the "L" word again. ;o)

                                                        I think you are either trying to play semantic games, or you have lost
                                                        your perspective on the sequence of events that occur from arrest to
                                                        conviction or exoneration (whichever is the case) in a criminal case.

                                                        Rick.

                                                        RMRI, Inc.
                                                        http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com>
                                                        bestcyberinvestigator.com





                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Ricky Gurley
                                                        ... if not ... only ... cops ... I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since one of the accepted definition for enforcing the law
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:

                                                          > I do not need an ethics lesson from you. In fact I agree with most
                                                          if not
                                                          > all of your statements. As you sometimes do, you have spun off from your
                                                          > initial post, where I pointed out the weaknesses in your belief that
                                                          only
                                                          > the truly guilty should face "strict enforcement of the law". As the
                                                          cops
                                                          > enforce the law, again I ask, how is this accomplished?
                                                          >


                                                          I realize what you are asking now.. And a good point, I suppose, since
                                                          one of the accepted definition for "enforcing the law" is what is done
                                                          by Police Officers prior to a trial.. However, let me ask you a
                                                          question. If a state statute prescribes a certain punishment or a
                                                          range of punishment for an offended that is found guilty, and a Judge
                                                          follows that "prescription for punishment" in sentencing, is the Judge
                                                          not also "enforcing the law"?

                                                          And Gary, you get kudos.. It appears you are smart enough to delete
                                                          posts you don't agree with, rather than complain about them on the
                                                          group, and how much they are taking up your precious time. Good for
                                                          you, Gary. Keep deleting those posts you don't agree with.


                                                          Rick.

                                                          RMRI, Inc.
                                                          http://rmriinc.bestcyberinvestigator.com
                                                        • bella_mafia@yahoo.com
                                                          I think in this case it was a legitimate senior moment . Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of senior moments , I think it
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                                            mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                                             
                                                            Linda Smith


                                                            Bella Mafia

                                                            --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...> wrote:

                                                            From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigations@...>
                                                            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM






                                                            I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                                            things like this--

                                                            --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                                            > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                                            > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                                            > treated differently?
                                                            >
                                                            > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                                            > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                                            > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                                            > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                                            >
                                                            > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                                            > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                                            > to shoplift.
                                                            >
                                                            > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > QUOTE
                                                            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                            -
                                                            > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                                            > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                                            >
                                                            > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                                            > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                                            > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                                            > jail.
                                                            >
                                                            > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                                            > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                                            > for the rest of his groceries.
                                                            >
                                                            > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                                            > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                                            >
                                                            > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                                            > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                                            > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                                            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                            --
                                                            >
                                                            > Full Story:
                                                            > http://www.sun- sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                                            >
                                                            > Story COMMENTS here:
                                                            > http://www.topix. net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Any thoughts?
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Rick.
                                                            >


















                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • fjgrande@sbcglobal.net
                                                            I am in total awe. Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC P.O. Box 825 Bethel, CT 06801 Office: 203.743.6455 Fax:  203.778.2415 Toll: 877.743.6455 Email
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              I am in total awe.

                                                              Frank M. Grande CheckMate Investigations LLC
                                                              P.O. Box 825
                                                              Bethel, CT 06801
                                                              Office: 203.743.6455
                                                              Fax:  203.778.2415
                                                              Toll: 877.743.6455
                                                              Email info@...
                                                              Web: www.checkmate-investigations.net
                                                              CT Lic. #A-2192,
                                                              NCISS, NAIS, CALPI
                                                              When there are no more moves, CHECKMATE!
                                                              WE ARE YOUR LAST
                                                              MOVE!
                                                               
                                                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              From: "bella_mafia@..." <emmylousings@...>

                                                              Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:01:35
                                                              To:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"


                                                              I think in this case it was a legitimate ''senior moment''. Unless you are a senior, and have experienced the  onset of ''senior moments'', I think it would be difficult to imagine what it would be like, to suddenly reach for a common word within your usual vocabulary, and it not "be there''. Or, to have your thoughts suddenly ''go adrift'' when you are on your way to the checkout counter in a store, and suddenly find yourself outside the store! Once I was on my way to the checkout counter in a store, and saw a clerk on my way, and stopped to inquire about an item they might have in stock. By the time I had finished talking to the clerk, I walked straight out the door of the store, totally forgetting to stop at checkout. I realized my mistake immediately out the front door, and reentered the store and explained to the cashier that I had forgotten to pay for the item, and payed. She just looked real doubtful and sour, but did not reply. I was
                                                              mortified. Senior moments occur frequently, when we are in our own homes as well. We forget what task we were doing before being interupted, for example, and go on and begin doing something else. Senior moments are embarrassing, a pain in the neck, and sometimes downright scary! ....The guy who posted that perhaps it was only a ''convenient excuse'', for a 79 year old man, will probably have his day of senior moments just like the rest of us. ''Judge not, lest ye be judged''.
                                                               
                                                              Linda Smith

                                                              Bella Mafia

                                                              --- On Sun, 6/8/08, David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...> wrote:

                                                              From: David O'Niell <oniellinvestigation <mailto:oniellinvestigations%40mac.com> s@...>
                                                              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: A "Senior Moment"
                                                              To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                                              Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 3:38 PM

                                                              I think it's fairly common that when someone begins to suffer from dementia they do
                                                              things like this--

                                                              --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@... > wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Here is a post that came up on a board that I participate on, and I
                                                              > thought it was pretty interesting:
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > When senior citizens break the law with minor infractions, should they
                                                              > be held accountable and punished like the rest of us or should they be
                                                              > treated differently?
                                                              >
                                                              > I'm posting this because I came across a story where a 79 year old man
                                                              > was accused of stealing and thrown in jail. The reader comments caught
                                                              > my attention because the story sparked a controversy about how senior
                                                              > citizens should be treated in similar situations.
                                                              >
                                                              > Some people demanded that the elderly man should have been released
                                                              > and not harassed. Others claim that he was using his age as an excuse
                                                              > to shoplift.
                                                              >
                                                              > What do you all think? Honest mistake or perfect alibi?
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > QUOTE
                                                              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                              -
                                                              > LAKE WORTH - An elderly Palm Beach County man says he forgot to pay
                                                              > for the pie that sent him to jail for 10 hours.
                                                              >
                                                              > Authorities say 79-year-old George Schwartz didn't pay for a $5.29
                                                              > apple pie at a Publix near Lake Worth in April. He was taken to jail
                                                              > and charged with retail theft, a misdemeanor punishable by 60 days in
                                                              > jail.
                                                              >
                                                              > His lawyer said Thursday that the cashier who bagged the groceries
                                                              > that day also didn't notice the pie left in the basket. Schwartz paid
                                                              > for the rest of his groceries.
                                                              >
                                                              > His attorney adds that they are trying to get the case dropped.
                                                              > Otherwise, they could go to trial in June.
                                                              >
                                                              > Managers at that Publix say in a police report that he has shoplifted
                                                              > before. But Schwartz says he has short-term memory problems and calls
                                                              > the latest incident a misunderstanding.
                                                              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                              --
                                                              >
                                                              > Full Story:
                                                              > http://www.sun- <http://www.sun-> sentinel. com/sfl-530pie, 0,2371195. story
                                                              >
                                                              > Story COMMENTS here:
                                                              > http://www.topix. <http://www.topix.> net/forum/ source/south- fl...EASAK4QEEUV LLJU
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > Any thoughts?
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > Rick.
                                                              >

                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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