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Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

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  • Ricky Gurley
    ... 700 is a ... strict ... be ... were to put ... you ... concern. ... even have ... Yeah, I d agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you were a
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
      >
      > <<<< Ohhh I don't know... I think Johnston v. Fuller, 706 So. 2d
      700 is a
      > good example of how enforceable this particular tort is..... >>>>
      >
      > Rick,
      >
      > It's not so much unenforceable as only enforceable if some very
      strict
      > conditions are met. First, whatever was disseminated would have to
      be
      > without relation to legitimate public interest or concern. If I
      were to put
      > up posters in your neighborhood detailing your conviction for child
      > molestation back in 1996, regardless of how private you think that
      > information might be and how much you'd want to keep it a secret,
      you
      > wouldn't have a case as it would be a matter of legitimate public
      concern.
      > The matter could even just be somewhat news-worthy (and it doesn't
      even have
      > to be important news) and your case goes out the window.

      Yeah, I'd agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you
      were a licensed Private Investigator, and you made a false statement
      like that on this group, I would probably even have more of a case,
      If I decided to sue you for defamation of character.... There might
      be a difference between a person holding a professional license that
      indicates that he or she should be capable of determining whether or
      not this statement is true or false, and the consumer with a web page
      building company....

      On the other hand, supposing you did hold a P.I. license at one time,
      even if it was just as an intern, and now your agency license expired
      (or for whatever reason on the Florida P.I. License Database, if was
      now invalid), thereby revoking your intern's license. I still might
      have a stronger defamation case by being able to show that you should
      have been able to make a truthful determination, even more-so than
      the average consumer would.....

      Perhaps it can be said that the consumer might be afforded a greater
      defense than a licensed Private Investigator would be in this case?

      I guess the next thing I'd have to do in a case like this would be to
      look at your assets and see if it would even be worth it to sue you.
      In this case, being that one part of your income (P.I. Work) has been
      effectively canceled, and your income would probably be derived from
      building webpages now, you might not even be worth suing...

      >
      > Bob also pointed out the fundamental flaw in your case study; if I
      > inadvertently sent an e-mail to you instead of Sue Sarkis detailing
      some
      > private fact, then that's my error. I made my private fact known
      to others
      > through my own mistake - you didn't intrude on my privacy - I
      simply told
      > you about it, even if I didn't meant to.

      I think the tort law allows for you to make the mistake of sending
      the email to the wrong recipient, I believe it assigns culpability
      based on what the recipeient did with the email after receiving it. I
      also think this may be all that is required to show an overt act....



      Rick.


      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
      "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
      "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

      MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
      OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

      Phone: (888) 571-0958
      Fax: (877) 795-9800
      Cell: (573) 529-0808

      Email
      RMRI-Inc@...

      Webpage
      http://www.rmriinc.com
    • Rolingsmi@aol.com
      The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you have to prove liability and damages. Ron Oling, JD 20807 Encino Pebble San
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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        The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you
        have to prove liability and damages.

        Ron Oling, JD
        20807 Encino Pebble
        San Antonio, Texas 78259
        (210) 669-9810
        _www.costaricapi.com_ (http://www.costaricapi.com/)
        _www.investigationsatmexico.com_ (http://www.investigationsatmexico.com/)

        Your Latin American investigative source.



        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
        products.
        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Hrodey
        ... Quite true, however, since you re lettered in the law, would you not agree that the liability issue here is pretty much a non-starter? Granted these things
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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          Rolingsmi@... wrote:
          > The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you
          > have to prove liability and damages.
          >

          Quite true, however, since you're lettered in the law, would you not
          agree that the liability issue here is pretty much a non-starter?
          Granted these things are generally a a "who comes first, chicken or egg"
          in that without BOTH liability and damages we have a big fat nothing,
          but this thread started out on the worth of this disclaimer or warning
          on e-mails in general and, for me anyway, on postings to an open forum
          such as this.

          Just for the sake of argument, let's say you unintentionally copy
          something to this list that falls under attorney-client privilege.
          Whatever you post, I and several others either use to our advantage or
          mention to someone else that puts your client at a disadvantage. Okay
          we have damages to your client, who has liability besides you?<g>

          We have taken no overt action to obtain this privileged information.
          The only overt act we have committed was to act upon it.


          --

          Enjoy,

          Bob
          ________________________________________________________________
          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          email: inquiry@... or rth@...
          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
        • Jim Parker
          We re talking about invasion of privacy issues,
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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            <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to sue you for
            defamation of character.... >>>>


            We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or defamation of
            character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter has no
            relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently received
            containing private facts.

            Jim



            -----Original Message-----
            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
            Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:54 AM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
            >
            > <<<< Ohhh I don't know... I think Johnston v. Fuller, 706 So. 2d
            700 is a
            > good example of how enforceable this particular tort is..... >>>>
            >
            > Rick,
            >
            > It's not so much unenforceable as only enforceable if some very
            strict
            > conditions are met. First, whatever was disseminated would have to
            be
            > without relation to legitimate public interest or concern. If I
            were to put
            > up posters in your neighborhood detailing your conviction for child
            > molestation back in 1996, regardless of how private you think that
            > information might be and how much you'd want to keep it a secret,
            you
            > wouldn't have a case as it would be a matter of legitimate public
            concern.
            > The matter could even just be somewhat news-worthy (and it doesn't
            even have
            > to be important news) and your case goes out the window.

            Yeah, I'd agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you
            were a licensed Private Investigator, and you made a false statement
            like that on this group, I would probably even have more of a case,
            If I decided to sue you for defamation of character.... There might
            be a difference between a person holding a professional license that
            indicates that he or she should be capable of determining whether or
            not this statement is true or false, and the consumer with a web page
            building company....

            On the other hand, supposing you did hold a P.I. license at one time,
            even if it was just as an intern, and now your agency license expired
            (or for whatever reason on the Florida P.I. License Database, if was
            now invalid), thereby revoking your intern's license. I still might
            have a stronger defamation case by being able to show that you should
            have been able to make a truthful determination, even more-so than
            the average consumer would.....

            Perhaps it can be said that the consumer might be afforded a greater
            defense than a licensed Private Investigator would be in this case?

            I guess the next thing I'd have to do in a case like this would be to
            look at your assets and see if it would even be worth it to sue you.
            In this case, being that one part of your income (P.I. Work) has been
            effectively canceled, and your income would probably be derived from
            building webpages now, you might not even be worth suing...

            >
            > Bob also pointed out the fundamental flaw in your case study; if I
            > inadvertently sent an e-mail to you instead of Sue Sarkis detailing
            some
            > private fact, then that's my error. I made my private fact known
            to others
            > through my own mistake - you didn't intrude on my privacy - I
            simply told
            > you about it, even if I didn't meant to.

            I think the tort law allows for you to make the mistake of sending
            the email to the wrong recipient, I believe it assigns culpability
            based on what the recipeient did with the email after receiving it. I
            also think this may be all that is required to show an overt act....

            Rick.

            Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
            "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
            "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

            MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
            OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

            Phone: (888) 571-0958
            Fax: (877) 795-9800
            Cell: (573) 529-0808

            Email
            RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

            Webpage
            http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>
          • Ricky Gurley
            ... sue you for ... defamation of ... has no ... received ... Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably many peripheral issues worth
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
              >
              > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
              sue you for
              > defamation of character.... >>>>
              >
              >
              > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
              defamation of
              > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
              has no
              > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
              received
              > containing private facts.
              >
              > Jim

              Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
              many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
              be beneficial to the group members.

              And onto the specific topic at hand...

              I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
              contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
              client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
              email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
              unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
              a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
              email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

              I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
              referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
              email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
              client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
              admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
              still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
              to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

              Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
              it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
              scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
              for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
              or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
              think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
              are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
              their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
              we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

              On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
              are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
              think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
              place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
              in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
              without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
              messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
              determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
              confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
              the wrong person by mistake.


              Rick.


              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
              "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
              "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

              MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
              OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

              Phone: (888) 571-0958
              Fax: (877) 795-9800
              Cell: (573) 529-0808

              Email
              RMRI-Inc@...

              Webpage
              http://www.rmriinc.com
            • Bob Hrodey
              ... I think that s just so crazy. Here I am minding my own business. I open my e-mail and some wingnut has mistakenly sent me the plans of his client to buy
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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                Ricky Gurley wrote:
                > I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                > contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                > client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                > email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                > unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                > a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                > email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.
                >

                I think that's just so crazy. Here I am minding my own business. I
                open my e-mail and some wingnut has mistakenly sent me the plans of his
                client to buy a tax sale parcel for $600 knowing full well that a new
                mega-mall is coming to the area in five years. I jump on that
                information and beat him to the punch and I suddenly have liability
                greater than the nitwit who sent it to me?

                From a moral or ethical standpoint you can argue intentions all you
                want and I would likely agree with you. However, when dealing with the
                law you know that you can safely throw away common sense, and, sadly,
                many ethical and moral considerations<g>

                I see liability accruing to the unintended recipient, in the situation
                above, only in the case where the information itself becomes contraband
                by some law or the use of that information in a separate violation of
                law. For example, let's say that, the privileged communication
                mistakenly divulged to this list contained a list of names and social
                security numbers of beneficiaries to a pension fund who've gone
                missing. The fact that I have that information now is neither illegal
                (as to me) nor immoral. I didn't do a damn thing to get it and, so far,
                I've done nothing illegal. Now, if there exists a federal law stating
                that providing another individual with a SSAN not my own for ANY purpose
                is illegal, I've screwed the pooch as soon as I pass it on to another
                (as did the wingnut who sent it to me.) OTOH, if I start filling out
                credit card applications, etc. using those numbers I have obviously
                committed a crime. But merely opening my e-mail and finding them
                there? No problem for me but...


                > Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                > it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                > scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                > for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                > or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                > think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                > are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                > their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                > we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.
                >

                If I have to give something serious thought as to whether or not it
                might be illegal or a conflict of interest matter, I simply assume that
                it is and walk away from it. No sense pushing one's luck and "risking a
                lot for a little" (Thanks again, Greg Walker)


                > On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                > are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                > think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                > place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                > in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                > without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                > messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                > determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                > confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                > the wrong person by mistake.
                >

                Looks to be a Catch-22, eh? It just exemplifies how idiotic those
                warnings/disclaimers are. They are worthless - which, if you will
                recall - was the basic premise of Sue's post.


                --

                Enjoy,

                Bob
                ________________________________________________________________
                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
              • Jim Parker
                There are hundreds of them, but the issue we re discussing is
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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                  <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                  in this topic >>>>


                  There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                  legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                  error, and really, there is very little protection.


                  <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                  contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                  client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                  without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                  Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                  it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                  bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                  you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                  wanted.

                  Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                  between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                  them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.


                  <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                  email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                  without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                  Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                  recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                  It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                  if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.


                  <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                  you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                  That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                  request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                  Jim




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                  Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                  sue you for
                  > defamation of character.... >>>>
                  >
                  >
                  > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                  defamation of
                  > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                  has no
                  > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                  received
                  > containing private facts.
                  >
                  > Jim

                  Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                  many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                  be beneficial to the group members.

                  And onto the specific topic at hand...

                  I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                  contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                  client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                  email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                  unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                  a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                  email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                  I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                  referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                  email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                  client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                  admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                  still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                  to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                  Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                  it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                  scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                  for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                  or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                  think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                  are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                  their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                  we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                  On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                  are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                  think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                  place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                  in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                  without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                  messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                  determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                  confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                  the wrong person by mistake.

                  Rick.

                  Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                  "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                  "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                  MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                  OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                  Phone: (888) 571-0958
                  Fax: (877) 795-9800
                  Cell: (573) 529-0808

                  Email
                  RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                  Webpage
                  http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>
                • Vicki Siedow
                  You guys need to go Christmas shopping. Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La Crescenta, CA
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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                    You guys need to go Christmas shopping.



                    Vicki Siedow
                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                    & Legal Support Services
                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                    La Crescenta, CA 91214
                    Los Angeles County
                    CA PI License # 22852
                    800.448.6431 toll free
                    818.242.0130 local
                    818.688.3295 fax
                    <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                    <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                    Member NCISS, IWWA

                    Need economical legal help?
                    Concerned about Identity Theft?
                    Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bob Hrodey
                    ... Absolutely! For a contract you must have an offer and acceptance. This is nothing more than a request. If the warning appeared in the body of the e-mail
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Jim Parker wrote:
                      > <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                      > you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>
                      >
                      > That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                      > request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                      Absolutely! For a contract you must have an offer and acceptance. This
                      is nothing more than a request. If the warning appeared in the body of
                      the e-mail and stated something to the effect "I will share the
                      information contained within the attached zip file with you on condition
                      that you promise not to disclose it, you may open it. However, if you
                      do not intend to respect my request for confidentiality, please delete
                      it without opening it."

                      This MIGHT give you a leg to stand on. MIGHT! Again, we're assuming
                      this is an unsolicited and/or unintended e-mail received by you.

                      --

                      Enjoy,

                      Bob
                      ________________________________________________________________
                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                      email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                    • Bob Hrodey
                      ... Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last year, something in leather with studs? :-P -- Enjoy, Bob
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Vicki Siedow wrote:
                        > You guys need to go Christmas shopping.
                        >


                        Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last
                        year, something in leather with studs? :-P

                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        ________________________________________________________________
                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                      • Vicki Siedow
                        I have enough studs right here on the lists. I m off to a party, have fun, guys. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
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                          I have enough "studs" right here on the lists.



                          I'm off to a party, have fun, guys. ;)



                          Vicki Siedow
                          Siedow & Associates Investigations
                          & Legal Support Services
                          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                          La Crescenta, CA 91214
                          Los Angeles County
                          CA PI License # 22852
                          800.448.6431 toll free
                          818.242.0130 local
                          818.688.3295 fax
                          <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                          <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                          Member NCISS, IWWA

                          Need economical legal help?
                          Concerned about Identity Theft?
                          Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                          Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:53 AM
                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email



                          Vicki Siedow wrote:
                          > You guys need to go Christmas shopping.
                          >

                          Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last
                          year, something in leather with studs? :-P

                          --

                          Enjoy,

                          Bob
                          __________________________________________________________
                          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                          email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                          <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • RanchoAttySvc@aol.com
                          In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:56:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, SiedowAndAssociates@gmail.com writes: I m off to a party, have fun, guys. ;) I m addressing
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:56:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                            SiedowAndAssociates@... writes:

                            I'm off to a party, have fun, guys. ;)




                            I'm addressing Christmas cards for my dog. Only another 60 or so to go,
                            though.

                            _ "RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                            (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)

                            Michele Dawn, RPS 117
                            Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                            Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                            RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                            28465 Old Town Front St, Suite 318
                            Temecula, CA 92590
                            (951) 693-0165 or fax (951) 693-4056
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • greenwood152@aol.com
                            There s an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named BigString.com (free) that offers something all other ISP s don t; the ability to
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              There's an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named "BigString.com" (free) that offers something all other ISP's don't; the ability to recall sent email, modify sent email, send video and other attachments without limit, and most interestingly...the ability to have your email "self-destruct" after a time you determine as well as sending email that can't be forwarded or printed.


                              1st Choice Investigations, Inc.
                              Jeff Greenwood
                              Agency # A-2600445
                              954-802-0626
                              P.O. Box 540671
                              Lake Worth, FL 33454
                              greenwood152@...
                              "Discrete, Thorough, & Cost Effective"


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jim Parker <Jim@...>
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 1:34 pm
                              Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email






                              <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                              in this topic >>>>

                              There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                              legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                              error, and really, there is very little protection.

                              <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                              contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                              client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                              without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                              Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                              it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                              bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                              you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                              wanted.

                              Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                              between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                              them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.

                              <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                              email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                              without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                              Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                              recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                              It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                              if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.

                              <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                              you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                              That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                              request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                              Jim

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                              Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                              sue you for
                              > defamation of character.... >>>>
                              >
                              >
                              > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                              defamation of
                              > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                              has no
                              > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                              received
                              > containing private facts.
                              >
                              > Jim

                              Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                              many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                              be beneficial to the group members.

                              And onto the specific topic at hand...

                              I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                              contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                              client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                              email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                              unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                              a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                              email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                              I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                              referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                              email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                              client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                              admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                              still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                              to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                              Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                              it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                              scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                              for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                              or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                              think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                              are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                              their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                              we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                              On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                              are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                              think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                              place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                              in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                              without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                              messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                              determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                              confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                              the wrong person by mistake.

                              Rick.

                              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                              "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                              "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                              MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                              OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                              Phone: (888) 571-0958
                              Fax: (877) 795-9800
                              Cell: (573) 529-0808

                              Email
                              RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                              Webpage
                              http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>





                              ________________________________________________________________________
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jim Parker
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                <<<< There is an email service named "BigString.com" (free) that offers
                                something all other ISP's don't; the ability to recall sent email, modify
                                sent email, send video and other attachments without limit, and most
                                interestingly...the ability to have your email "self-destruct" after a time
                                you determine as well as sending email that can't be forwarded or printed.
                                >>>>


                                This is just an old gimmick that creates a graphic image of your message,
                                puts it on their server then sends an HTML e-mail to the recipient with the
                                image embedded in it. Most e-mail clients will not display the message if
                                you have your security configured properly or they receive messages on only
                                TXT format and most junk-mail filters will filter it out.

                                In Outlook 2007, the message looks like the below (after I retrieved it from
                                my junk-mail folder)

                                "You have received an email that cannot be displayed properly. Please enable
                                your images to view this email."

                                Not likely!

                                Jim


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of greenwood152@...
                                Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:10 PM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                There's an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named
                                "BigString.com" (free) that offers something all other ISP's don't; the
                                ability to recall sent email, modify sent email, send video and other
                                attachments without limit, and most interestingly...the ability to have your
                                email "self-destruct" after a time you determine as well as sending email
                                that can't be forwarded or printed.

                                1st Choice Investigations, Inc.
                                Jeff Greenwood
                                Agency # A-2600445
                                954-802-0626
                                P.O. Box 540671
                                Lake Worth, FL 33454
                                greenwood152@... <mailto:greenwood152%40aol.com>
                                "Discrete, Thorough, & Cost Effective"

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Jim Parker <Jim@...
                                <mailto:Jim%40FloridaDetectives.com> >
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 1:34 pm
                                Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                                in this topic >>>>

                                There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                                legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                                error, and really, there is very little protection.

                                <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                                without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                                Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                                it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                                bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                                you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                                wanted.

                                Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                                between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                                them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.

                                <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                                email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                                Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                                recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                                It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                                if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.

                                <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                                you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                                That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                                request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                                Jim

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                                sue you for
                                > defamation of character.... >>>>
                                >
                                >
                                > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                                defamation of
                                > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                                has no
                                > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                                received
                                > containing private facts.
                                >
                                > Jim

                                Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                                many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                                be beneficial to the group members.

                                And onto the specific topic at hand...

                                I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                                email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                                unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                                a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                                email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                                I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                                referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                                email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                                client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                                admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                                still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                                to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                                Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                                it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                                scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                                for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                                or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                                think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                                are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                                their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                                we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                                On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                                are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                                think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                                place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                                in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                                messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                                determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                                confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                                the wrong person by mistake.

                                Rick.

                                Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                                "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                                "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                                MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                                OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                                Phone: (888) 571-0958
                                Fax: (877) 795-9800
                                Cell: (573) 529-0808

                                Email
                                RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>
                                <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                                Webpage
                                http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com> <http://www.rmriinc.com
                                <http://www.rmriinc.com> >

                                __________________________________________________________
                                More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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