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Re: [infoguys-list] Confidentiality Messages in Email

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  • Bob Hrodey
    ... That s kind of the argument here, Miriam. Take this very post of yours and put some personal secret in it and post it on this list. Then explain what
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
      Ettisch-Enchelmaier GmbH wrote:
      > Tele or e-communications are -at least in Germany- regarded as con-
      > fidential under the telecommunication laws.
      >
      > Even without the addition of stating that an email is confidential
      > it is still confidential. If one sends an email to a group, one
      > cannot rely that it remains confidential still it is only intended
      > to the recipients, i.e. the group to which it is sent.
      >

      That's kind of the argument here, Miriam. Take this very post of yours
      and put some personal "secret" in it and post it on this list. Then
      explain what recourse you have under German, US, or any applicable law
      when someone - perhaps a list member or even someone who finds it in the
      archives in a web search - uses that information in a way that you don't
      agree with.

      > It is like a letter. If you open a letter by mistake sent to someone
      > else, you still cannot use the contents and distribute it.
      >
      > It remains confidential under the postal laws.
      >
      > Even husband is not suppose to open his wife's letters.

      Not to muddy the water here but the laws regarding mail here in theUS
      and, presumably other countries, change dramatically once the mail is
      delivered and received by the recipient. Under the law, mail in transit
      and not yet received is afforded the utmost protection. Mail received
      by the addressee and locked up in a drawer has less but is still treated
      as private. Mail left laying on a table in the public library or coffee
      shop has almost no expectation of privacy but we were talking about
      electronic communications specifically those posted to lists. So...


      --

      Enjoy,

      Bob
      ________________________________________________________________
      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
      email: inquiry@... or rth@...
      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
    • Ricky Gurley
      ... 700 is a ... strict ... be ... were to put ... you ... concern. ... even have ... Yeah, I d agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you were a
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
        >
        > <<<< Ohhh I don't know... I think Johnston v. Fuller, 706 So. 2d
        700 is a
        > good example of how enforceable this particular tort is..... >>>>
        >
        > Rick,
        >
        > It's not so much unenforceable as only enforceable if some very
        strict
        > conditions are met. First, whatever was disseminated would have to
        be
        > without relation to legitimate public interest or concern. If I
        were to put
        > up posters in your neighborhood detailing your conviction for child
        > molestation back in 1996, regardless of how private you think that
        > information might be and how much you'd want to keep it a secret,
        you
        > wouldn't have a case as it would be a matter of legitimate public
        concern.
        > The matter could even just be somewhat news-worthy (and it doesn't
        even have
        > to be important news) and your case goes out the window.

        Yeah, I'd agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you
        were a licensed Private Investigator, and you made a false statement
        like that on this group, I would probably even have more of a case,
        If I decided to sue you for defamation of character.... There might
        be a difference between a person holding a professional license that
        indicates that he or she should be capable of determining whether or
        not this statement is true or false, and the consumer with a web page
        building company....

        On the other hand, supposing you did hold a P.I. license at one time,
        even if it was just as an intern, and now your agency license expired
        (or for whatever reason on the Florida P.I. License Database, if was
        now invalid), thereby revoking your intern's license. I still might
        have a stronger defamation case by being able to show that you should
        have been able to make a truthful determination, even more-so than
        the average consumer would.....

        Perhaps it can be said that the consumer might be afforded a greater
        defense than a licensed Private Investigator would be in this case?

        I guess the next thing I'd have to do in a case like this would be to
        look at your assets and see if it would even be worth it to sue you.
        In this case, being that one part of your income (P.I. Work) has been
        effectively canceled, and your income would probably be derived from
        building webpages now, you might not even be worth suing...

        >
        > Bob also pointed out the fundamental flaw in your case study; if I
        > inadvertently sent an e-mail to you instead of Sue Sarkis detailing
        some
        > private fact, then that's my error. I made my private fact known
        to others
        > through my own mistake - you didn't intrude on my privacy - I
        simply told
        > you about it, even if I didn't meant to.

        I think the tort law allows for you to make the mistake of sending
        the email to the wrong recipient, I believe it assigns culpability
        based on what the recipeient did with the email after receiving it. I
        also think this may be all that is required to show an overt act....



        Rick.


        Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
        "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
        "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

        MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
        OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

        Phone: (888) 571-0958
        Fax: (877) 795-9800
        Cell: (573) 529-0808

        Email
        RMRI-Inc@...

        Webpage
        http://www.rmriinc.com
      • Rolingsmi@aol.com
        The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you have to prove liability and damages. Ron Oling, JD 20807 Encino Pebble San
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
          The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you
          have to prove liability and damages.

          Ron Oling, JD
          20807 Encino Pebble
          San Antonio, Texas 78259
          (210) 669-9810
          _www.costaricapi.com_ (http://www.costaricapi.com/)
          _www.investigationsatmexico.com_ (http://www.investigationsatmexico.com/)

          Your Latin American investigative source.



          **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
          products.
          (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Hrodey
          ... Quite true, however, since you re lettered in the law, would you not agree that the liability issue here is pretty much a non-starter? Granted these things
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
            Rolingsmi@... wrote:
            > The hard part in this case would be to prove the damages. In Civil cases you
            > have to prove liability and damages.
            >

            Quite true, however, since you're lettered in the law, would you not
            agree that the liability issue here is pretty much a non-starter?
            Granted these things are generally a a "who comes first, chicken or egg"
            in that without BOTH liability and damages we have a big fat nothing,
            but this thread started out on the worth of this disclaimer or warning
            on e-mails in general and, for me anyway, on postings to an open forum
            such as this.

            Just for the sake of argument, let's say you unintentionally copy
            something to this list that falls under attorney-client privilege.
            Whatever you post, I and several others either use to our advantage or
            mention to someone else that puts your client at a disadvantage. Okay
            we have damages to your client, who has liability besides you?<g>

            We have taken no overt action to obtain this privileged information.
            The only overt act we have committed was to act upon it.


            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            ________________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@... or rth@...
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
          • Jim Parker
            We re talking about invasion of privacy issues,
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
              <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to sue you for
              defamation of character.... >>>>


              We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or defamation of
              character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter has no
              relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently received
              containing private facts.

              Jim



              -----Original Message-----
              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
              Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:54 AM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
              >
              > <<<< Ohhh I don't know... I think Johnston v. Fuller, 706 So. 2d
              700 is a
              > good example of how enforceable this particular tort is..... >>>>
              >
              > Rick,
              >
              > It's not so much unenforceable as only enforceable if some very
              strict
              > conditions are met. First, whatever was disseminated would have to
              be
              > without relation to legitimate public interest or concern. If I
              were to put
              > up posters in your neighborhood detailing your conviction for child
              > molestation back in 1996, regardless of how private you think that
              > information might be and how much you'd want to keep it a secret,
              you
              > wouldn't have a case as it would be a matter of legitimate public
              concern.
              > The matter could even just be somewhat news-worthy (and it doesn't
              even have
              > to be important news) and your case goes out the window.

              Yeah, I'd agree with that.. However, lets say for example, if you
              were a licensed Private Investigator, and you made a false statement
              like that on this group, I would probably even have more of a case,
              If I decided to sue you for defamation of character.... There might
              be a difference between a person holding a professional license that
              indicates that he or she should be capable of determining whether or
              not this statement is true or false, and the consumer with a web page
              building company....

              On the other hand, supposing you did hold a P.I. license at one time,
              even if it was just as an intern, and now your agency license expired
              (or for whatever reason on the Florida P.I. License Database, if was
              now invalid), thereby revoking your intern's license. I still might
              have a stronger defamation case by being able to show that you should
              have been able to make a truthful determination, even more-so than
              the average consumer would.....

              Perhaps it can be said that the consumer might be afforded a greater
              defense than a licensed Private Investigator would be in this case?

              I guess the next thing I'd have to do in a case like this would be to
              look at your assets and see if it would even be worth it to sue you.
              In this case, being that one part of your income (P.I. Work) has been
              effectively canceled, and your income would probably be derived from
              building webpages now, you might not even be worth suing...

              >
              > Bob also pointed out the fundamental flaw in your case study; if I
              > inadvertently sent an e-mail to you instead of Sue Sarkis detailing
              some
              > private fact, then that's my error. I made my private fact known
              to others
              > through my own mistake - you didn't intrude on my privacy - I
              simply told
              > you about it, even if I didn't meant to.

              I think the tort law allows for you to make the mistake of sending
              the email to the wrong recipient, I believe it assigns culpability
              based on what the recipeient did with the email after receiving it. I
              also think this may be all that is required to show an overt act....

              Rick.

              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
              "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
              "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

              MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
              OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

              Phone: (888) 571-0958
              Fax: (877) 795-9800
              Cell: (573) 529-0808

              Email
              RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

              Webpage
              http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>
            • Ricky Gurley
              ... sue you for ... defamation of ... has no ... received ... Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably many peripheral issues worth
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                >
                > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                sue you for
                > defamation of character.... >>>>
                >
                >
                > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                defamation of
                > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                has no
                > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                received
                > containing private facts.
                >
                > Jim

                Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                be beneficial to the group members.

                And onto the specific topic at hand...

                I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                the wrong person by mistake.


                Rick.


                Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                Phone: (888) 571-0958
                Fax: (877) 795-9800
                Cell: (573) 529-0808

                Email
                RMRI-Inc@...

                Webpage
                http://www.rmriinc.com
              • Bob Hrodey
                ... I think that s just so crazy. Here I am minding my own business. I open my e-mail and some wingnut has mistakenly sent me the plans of his client to buy
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                  Ricky Gurley wrote:
                  > I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                  > contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                  > client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                  > email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                  > unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                  > a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                  > email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.
                  >

                  I think that's just so crazy. Here I am minding my own business. I
                  open my e-mail and some wingnut has mistakenly sent me the plans of his
                  client to buy a tax sale parcel for $600 knowing full well that a new
                  mega-mall is coming to the area in five years. I jump on that
                  information and beat him to the punch and I suddenly have liability
                  greater than the nitwit who sent it to me?

                  From a moral or ethical standpoint you can argue intentions all you
                  want and I would likely agree with you. However, when dealing with the
                  law you know that you can safely throw away common sense, and, sadly,
                  many ethical and moral considerations<g>

                  I see liability accruing to the unintended recipient, in the situation
                  above, only in the case where the information itself becomes contraband
                  by some law or the use of that information in a separate violation of
                  law. For example, let's say that, the privileged communication
                  mistakenly divulged to this list contained a list of names and social
                  security numbers of beneficiaries to a pension fund who've gone
                  missing. The fact that I have that information now is neither illegal
                  (as to me) nor immoral. I didn't do a damn thing to get it and, so far,
                  I've done nothing illegal. Now, if there exists a federal law stating
                  that providing another individual with a SSAN not my own for ANY purpose
                  is illegal, I've screwed the pooch as soon as I pass it on to another
                  (as did the wingnut who sent it to me.) OTOH, if I start filling out
                  credit card applications, etc. using those numbers I have obviously
                  committed a crime. But merely opening my e-mail and finding them
                  there? No problem for me but...


                  > Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                  > it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                  > scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                  > for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                  > or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                  > think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                  > are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                  > their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                  > we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.
                  >

                  If I have to give something serious thought as to whether or not it
                  might be illegal or a conflict of interest matter, I simply assume that
                  it is and walk away from it. No sense pushing one's luck and "risking a
                  lot for a little" (Thanks again, Greg Walker)


                  > On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                  > are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                  > think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                  > place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                  > in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                  > without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                  > messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                  > determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                  > confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                  > the wrong person by mistake.
                  >

                  Looks to be a Catch-22, eh? It just exemplifies how idiotic those
                  warnings/disclaimers are. They are worthless - which, if you will
                  recall - was the basic premise of Sue's post.


                  --

                  Enjoy,

                  Bob
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                • Jim Parker
                  There are hundreds of them, but the issue we re discussing is
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                    <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                    in this topic >>>>


                    There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                    legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                    error, and really, there is very little protection.


                    <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                    contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                    client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                    without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                    Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                    it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                    bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                    you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                    wanted.

                    Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                    between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                    them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.


                    <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                    email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                    without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                    Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                    recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                    It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                    if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.


                    <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                    you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                    That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                    request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                    Jim




                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                    Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                    sue you for
                    > defamation of character.... >>>>
                    >
                    >
                    > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                    defamation of
                    > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                    has no
                    > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                    received
                    > containing private facts.
                    >
                    > Jim

                    Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                    many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                    be beneficial to the group members.

                    And onto the specific topic at hand...

                    I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                    contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                    client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                    email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                    unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                    a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                    email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                    I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                    referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                    email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                    client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                    admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                    still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                    to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                    Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                    it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                    scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                    for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                    or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                    think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                    are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                    their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                    we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                    On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                    are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                    think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                    place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                    in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                    without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                    messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                    determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                    confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                    the wrong person by mistake.

                    Rick.

                    Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                    "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                    "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                    MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                    OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                    Phone: (888) 571-0958
                    Fax: (877) 795-9800
                    Cell: (573) 529-0808

                    Email
                    RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                    Webpage
                    http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>
                  • Vicki Siedow
                    You guys need to go Christmas shopping. Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La Crescenta, CA
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                      You guys need to go Christmas shopping.



                      Vicki Siedow
                      Siedow & Associates Investigations
                      & Legal Support Services
                      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                      La Crescenta, CA 91214
                      Los Angeles County
                      CA PI License # 22852
                      800.448.6431 toll free
                      818.242.0130 local
                      818.688.3295 fax
                      <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                      <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                      Member NCISS, IWWA

                      Need economical legal help?
                      Concerned about Identity Theft?
                      Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bob Hrodey
                      ... Absolutely! For a contract you must have an offer and acceptance. This is nothing more than a request. If the warning appeared in the body of the e-mail
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                        Jim Parker wrote:
                        > <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                        > you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>
                        >
                        > That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                        > request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                        Absolutely! For a contract you must have an offer and acceptance. This
                        is nothing more than a request. If the warning appeared in the body of
                        the e-mail and stated something to the effect "I will share the
                        information contained within the attached zip file with you on condition
                        that you promise not to disclose it, you may open it. However, if you
                        do not intend to respect my request for confidentiality, please delete
                        it without opening it."

                        This MIGHT give you a leg to stand on. MIGHT! Again, we're assuming
                        this is an unsolicited and/or unintended e-mail received by you.

                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        ________________________________________________________________
                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                      • Bob Hrodey
                        ... Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last year, something in leather with studs? :-P -- Enjoy, Bob
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                          Vicki Siedow wrote:
                          > You guys need to go Christmas shopping.
                          >


                          Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last
                          year, something in leather with studs? :-P

                          --

                          Enjoy,

                          Bob
                          ________________________________________________________________
                          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                          email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                        • Vicki Siedow
                          I have enough studs right here on the lists. I m off to a party, have fun, guys. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                            I have enough "studs" right here on the lists.



                            I'm off to a party, have fun, guys. ;)



                            Vicki Siedow
                            Siedow & Associates Investigations
                            & Legal Support Services
                            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                            La Crescenta, CA 91214
                            Los Angeles County
                            CA PI License # 22852
                            800.448.6431 toll free
                            818.242.0130 local
                            818.688.3295 fax
                            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                            Member NCISS, IWWA

                            Need economical legal help?
                            Concerned about Identity Theft?
                            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                            Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:53 AM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email



                            Vicki Siedow wrote:
                            > You guys need to go Christmas shopping.
                            >

                            Heading out to do some of that shortly. What do you want? Same as last
                            year, something in leather with studs? :-P

                            --

                            Enjoy,

                            Bob
                            __________________________________________________________
                            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                            email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • RanchoAttySvc@aol.com
                            In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:56:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, SiedowAndAssociates@gmail.com writes: I m off to a party, have fun, guys. ;) I m addressing
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                              In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:56:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                              SiedowAndAssociates@... writes:

                              I'm off to a party, have fun, guys. ;)




                              I'm addressing Christmas cards for my dog. Only another 60 or so to go,
                              though.

                              _ "RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                              (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)

                              Michele Dawn, RPS 117
                              Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                              Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                              RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                              28465 Old Town Front St, Suite 318
                              Temecula, CA 92590
                              (951) 693-0165 or fax (951) 693-4056
                              CAPPS NCISS NAPPS NAIS CAJP
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                              products.
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • greenwood152@aol.com
                              There s an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named BigString.com (free) that offers something all other ISP s don t; the ability to
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                                There's an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named "BigString.com" (free) that offers something all other ISP's don't; the ability to recall sent email, modify sent email, send video and other attachments without limit, and most interestingly...the ability to have your email "self-destruct" after a time you determine as well as sending email that can't be forwarded or printed.


                                1st Choice Investigations, Inc.
                                Jeff Greenwood
                                Agency # A-2600445
                                954-802-0626
                                P.O. Box 540671
                                Lake Worth, FL 33454
                                greenwood152@...
                                "Discrete, Thorough, & Cost Effective"


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Jim Parker <Jim@...>
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 1:34 pm
                                Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email






                                <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                                in this topic >>>>

                                There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                                legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                                error, and really, there is very little protection.

                                <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                                without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                                Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                                it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                                bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                                you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                                wanted.

                                Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                                between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                                them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.

                                <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                                email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                                Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                                recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                                It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                                if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.

                                <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                                you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                                That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                                request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                                Jim

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                                sue you for
                                > defamation of character.... >>>>
                                >
                                >
                                > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                                defamation of
                                > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                                has no
                                > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                                received
                                > containing private facts.
                                >
                                > Jim

                                Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                                many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                                be beneficial to the group members.

                                And onto the specific topic at hand...

                                I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                                email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                                unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                                a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                                email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                                I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                                referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                                email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                                client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                                admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                                still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                                to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                                Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                                it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                                scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                                for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                                or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                                think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                                are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                                their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                                we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                                On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                                are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                                think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                                place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                                in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                                messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                                determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                                confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                                the wrong person by mistake.

                                Rick.

                                Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                                "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                                "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                                MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                                OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                                Phone: (888) 571-0958
                                Fax: (877) 795-9800
                                Cell: (573) 529-0808

                                Email
                                RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                                Webpage
                                http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com>





                                ________________________________________________________________________
                                More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Jim Parker
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
                                  <<<< There is an email service named "BigString.com" (free) that offers
                                  something all other ISP's don't; the ability to recall sent email, modify
                                  sent email, send video and other attachments without limit, and most
                                  interestingly...the ability to have your email "self-destruct" after a time
                                  you determine as well as sending email that can't be forwarded or printed.
                                  >>>>


                                  This is just an old gimmick that creates a graphic image of your message,
                                  puts it on their server then sends an HTML e-mail to the recipient with the
                                  image embedded in it. Most e-mail clients will not display the message if
                                  you have your security configured properly or they receive messages on only
                                  TXT format and most junk-mail filters will filter it out.

                                  In Outlook 2007, the message looks like the below (after I retrieved it from
                                  my junk-mail folder)

                                  "You have received an email that cannot be displayed properly. Please enable
                                  your images to view this email."

                                  Not likely!

                                  Jim


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of greenwood152@...
                                  Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:10 PM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                  There's an easy way around this issue. There is an email service named
                                  "BigString.com" (free) that offers something all other ISP's don't; the
                                  ability to recall sent email, modify sent email, send video and other
                                  attachments without limit, and most interestingly...the ability to have your
                                  email "self-destruct" after a time you determine as well as sending email
                                  that can't be forwarded or printed.

                                  1st Choice Investigations, Inc.
                                  Jeff Greenwood
                                  Agency # A-2600445
                                  954-802-0626
                                  P.O. Box 540671
                                  Lake Worth, FL 33454
                                  greenwood152@... <mailto:greenwood152%40aol.com>
                                  "Discrete, Thorough, & Cost Effective"

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Jim Parker <Jim@...
                                  <mailto:Jim%40FloridaDetectives.com> >
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 1:34 pm
                                  Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                  <<<< I think there are probably many "peripheral issues" worth discussing
                                  in this topic >>>>

                                  There are hundreds of them, but the issue we're discussing is what you can
                                  legally do with the contents of a communication that was sent to you in
                                  error, and really, there is very little protection.

                                  <<<< I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                  contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                  client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that email
                                  without having some liablity for doing so. >>>>

                                  Why? If you sent me a message that was intended for your attorney, then
                                  it's you who has broken the attorney-client privilege, not me. I'm not
                                  bound in any way to any confidentiality agreements that might exist between
                                  you and your attorney. I could even give it to your opposing attorney if I
                                  wanted.

                                  Much the same as if an opposing attorney subpoenaed your communications
                                  between you and your own attorney, and you comply with the subpoena and sent
                                  them those communications, that's your problem, not the opposing attorney's.

                                  <<<< If you place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the
                                  email in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                  without knowing if it was intended for them or not. >>>>

                                  Not at all; you have given notice to the recipient (even the wrong
                                  recipient) that the contents are confidential and must be treated as such.
                                  It's still relatively weightless though, but slightly more enforceable than
                                  if the recipient were notified AFTER they read the message.

                                  <<<< "Once you have read this email, if you determine that it is not for
                                  you, please delete it and keep it confidential" >>>>

                                  That's not a confidentiality agreement; it's nothing more than a polite
                                  request and could not possibly be considered a binding contract.

                                  Jim

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                  On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                  Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:10 PM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Confidentiality Messages in Email

                                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > <<<< I would probably even have more of a case, If I decided to
                                  sue you for
                                  > defamation of character.... >>>>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > We're talking about invasion of privacy issues, not libel or
                                  defamation of
                                  > character. They are two entirely separate things and the latter
                                  has no
                                  > relevance to what you can do with an e-mail that you inadvertently
                                  received
                                  > containing private facts.
                                  >
                                  > Jim

                                  Yes... True to topic.. However, I think there are probably
                                  many "peripheral issues" worth discussing in this topic, if it is to
                                  be beneficial to the group members.

                                  And onto the specific topic at hand...

                                  I am not so sure that a person that receives a message in error
                                  contianing classified information (information protected by attorney -
                                  client privilege for example)can do whatever they wish with that
                                  email without having some liablity for doing so. I think that the
                                  unintentional act of sending an email to the wrong person, is less of
                                  a consideration than what the unintended recipient that received the
                                  email did with it and what their intentions were when they did it.

                                  I think it may be fair to make a distinction here also. If we are
                                  referring to a criminal case in which the sender erroneously sent an
                                  email to the recipient that may have been protected by attorney -
                                  client privilege, even though this email may be used in court,
                                  admitted as evidence in court, and even used against the sender, this
                                  still does not necessarily absolve the recipient that used this email
                                  to the detriment of the sender of any and all civil liability.

                                  Ultimately, I think in these cases, in our current political climate,
                                  it may be smart to err on the side of caution. In any of these
                                  scenarios that we have mentioned, there are tremendous costs involved
                                  for both parties. Why would anyone want to risk having to spend 25K
                                  or more on an attorney just to defend against cases like these? I
                                  think that although some things may seem "clever" at the time they
                                  are being done, we should probably step back and try to assess
                                  their "butt biting potential" before we do them. These scenarios that
                                  we are discussing seem worthy of that consideration.

                                  On a side note, the mentioning of how these confidentiality messages
                                  are placed at the bottom of the email is kinda funny. But, when you
                                  think about it, that is probably the appropriate place for it. If you
                                  place it at the top, you have placed the person receiving the email
                                  in the curious position of wondering if they shoulod read it or not
                                  without knowing if it was intended for them or not. I think these
                                  messages are trying to say: "Once you have read this email, if you
                                  determine that it is not for you, please delete it and keep it
                                  confidential". For whatever that is worth, when you send an email to
                                  the wrong person by mistake.

                                  Rick.

                                  Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                                  "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                                  "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                                  MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                                  OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                                  Phone: (888) 571-0958
                                  Fax: (877) 795-9800
                                  Cell: (573) 529-0808

                                  Email
                                  RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>
                                  <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                                  Webpage
                                  http://www.rmriinc.com <http://www.rmriinc.com> <http://www.rmriinc.com
                                  <http://www.rmriinc.com> >

                                  __________________________________________________________
                                  More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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                                  lcmp00050000000003>

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