Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Los Angeles, CA

Expand Messages
  • dts683
    ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
      Bob Hrodey wrote:

      > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
      > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
      > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
      > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
      > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
      > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
      > mileage, etc. NOT you.


      Bob,

      I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
      point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
      that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
      engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
      they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
      paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
      do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
      coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
      general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
      state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
      lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
      many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
      coverage.

      The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
      left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
      subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
      doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
      contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
      rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
      going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
      medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
      unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
      4%).

      I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
      ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
      say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
      say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
      these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
      just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

      I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
      states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
      all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
      ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
      accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
      national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
      state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
      local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
      normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
      get paid."


      Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
      Metro Detective Agency, LLC
      P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
      Office: (815) 787-1111
      Cellular: (815) 757-8940
      Fax: (866) 727-2051
      info@...
      http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
    • Bob Hrodey
      ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
        dts683 wrote:
        > Bob Hrodey wrote:
        >
        >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
        >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
        >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
        >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
        >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
        >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
        >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
        >>
        >
        >
        > Bob,
        >
        > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
        > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
        > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
        > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
        > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
        > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
        > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
        > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
        >

        IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

        You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
        taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
        those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
        insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

        Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
        contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
        the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
        insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
        for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

        > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
        > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
        > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
        > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
        > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
        >

        Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
        contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
        the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
        insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
        for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


        --

        Enjoy,

        Bob
        ________________________________________________________________
        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim Parker
        Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
          Bob said:

          "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

          Then said:

          "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


          That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

          :o)



          -----Original Message-----
          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

          dts683 wrote:
          > Bob Hrodey wrote:
          >
          >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
          >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
          >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
          >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
          >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
          >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
          >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
          >>
          >
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
          > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
          > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
          > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
          > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
          > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
          > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
          > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
          >

          IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

          You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
          taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
          those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
          insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

          Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

          > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
          > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
          > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
          > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
          > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
          >

          Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

          --

          Enjoy,

          Bob
          __________________________________________________________
          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
          <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Hrodey
          ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
            Jim Parker wrote:
            > Bob said:
            >
            > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
            >
            > Then said:
            >
            > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
            >
            >
            > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
            >


            Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

            Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

            OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            ________________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@... or rth@...
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
          • dts683
            ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
              Bob Hrodey wrote:

              > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
              > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
              > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
              > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
              > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

              Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
              shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
              PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
              the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
              claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
              an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
              for any claims too.

              > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

              Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
              too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
              actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
              understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
              coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
              agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
              coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
              personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
              could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


              Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
              Metro Detective Agency, LLC
              P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
              Office: (815) 787-1111
              Cellular: (815) 757-8940
              Fax: (866) 727-2051
              info@...
              http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
            • Vicki Siedow
              I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                have more successful outcomes, as well.



                I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                charities can be profitable.



                I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                Vicki Siedow
                Siedow & Associates Investigations
                & Legal Support Services
                2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                La Crescenta, CA 91214
                Los Angeles County
                CA PI License # 22852
                800.448.6431 toll free
                818.242.0130 local
                818.688.3295 fax
                <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                Member NCISS, IWWA

                Need economical legal help?
                Concerned about Identity Theft?
                Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > Louis -
                >
                > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                QUALITY
                > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                see such
                > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                practitioner having taken
                > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                back then.
                > That was more than 30 years ago.
                >
                > You get what you pay for !!!
                >
                >
                > Sincerely yours,
                > Sue
                > ________________________
                > Sue Sarkis
                > Sarkis Detective Agency

                Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                And I still make money off of their work.

                I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                effect on your reputation.

                I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                yourself.

                Rick.

                Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                Phone: (888) 571-0958
                Fax: (877) 795-9800
                Cell: (573) 529-0808

                Email
                RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                Webpage
                http://www.rmriinc.com





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bob Hrodey
                ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                  Vicki Siedow wrote:
                  > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                  > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                  That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                  early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                  was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                  exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                  Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                  literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                  penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                  of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                  happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                  course) brings in more business.

                  Truly strange.

                  Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                  with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                  A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                  firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                  it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                  for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                  a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                  many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                  frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                  day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                  At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                  he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                  friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                  was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                  about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                  he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                  sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                  said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                  if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                  billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                  pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                  fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                  product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                  "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                  He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                  if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                  if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                  the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                  his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                  effort to get a better rate.

                  Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                  --

                  Enjoy,

                  Bob
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                • suesarkis@aol.com
                  Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                    Folks -

                    Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                    Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                    losing my mind, I feel confident.

                    The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                    cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                    none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                    or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                    issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                    are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                    am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                    vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                    and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                    accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                    If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                    has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                    the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                    the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                    Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                    '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                    the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                    insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                    That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                    for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                    handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                    am not covered.

                    Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                    vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                    would I sue anyone?

                    One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                    intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                    have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                    should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                    violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                    Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                    Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                    and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                    walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                    insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                    pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                    harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                    yourself anyway.


                    Sincerely yours,
                    Sue
                    ________________________
                    Sue Sarkis
                    Sarkis Detective Agency

                    (est. 1976)
                    PI 6564
                    _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                    1346 Ethel Street
                    Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                    818-242-2505
                    818-242-9824 FAX

                    "one Nation under God"

                    If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                    a military veteran !



                    **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                    products.
                    (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Glad4JC@aol.com
                    Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                      Sue,

                      I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                      me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                      going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                      gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                      would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                      am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                      insurance for that.

                      I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                      Gladys Brierley
                      Accurate Investigations
                      PO BOX 872
                      Newton County, Mississippi
                      601-480-3181 bus
                      601-683-2094 fax
                      Bus License # 1499
                      Glad4JC@...
                      Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                      _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                      _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                      (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                      Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                      services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                      interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                      extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                      cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                      my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                      _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                      _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                      (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                      )

                      _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                      (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                      This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                      Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                      or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                      please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                      interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                      In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                      suesarkis@... writes:




                      Folks -

                      Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                      Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                      wasn't
                      losing my mind, I feel confident.

                      The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                      cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                      coverage,
                      none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                      whether
                      or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                      issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                      are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                      am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                      vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                      mouth shut
                      and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                      accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                      If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                      has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                      for
                      the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                      the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                      Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                      '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                      the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                      insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                      guest.
                      That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                      for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                      handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                      well I
                      am not covered.

                      Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                      vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                      why
                      would I sue anyone?

                      One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                      intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                      CONTRACTEE,
                      have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                      should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                      invasion
                      violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                      Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                      Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                      and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                      walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                      insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                      any
                      pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                      harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                      yourself anyway.


                      Sincerely yours,
                      Sue
                      ________________________
                      Sue Sarkis
                      Sarkis Detective Agency

                      (est. 1976)
                      PI 6564
                      _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                      1346 Ethel Street
                      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                      818-242-2505
                      818-242-9824 FAX

                      "one Nation under God"

                      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                      a military veteran !

                      ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                      ***
                      products.
                      (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                      products.
                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Glad4JC@aol.com
                      I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                        I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                        often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                        to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                        I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                        advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                        mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                        a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                        with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                        overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                        rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                        thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                        have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                        Gladys Brierley
                        Accurate Investigations
                        PO BOX 872
                        Newton County, Mississippi
                        601-480-3181 bus
                        601-683-2094 fax
                        Bus License # 1499
                        Glad4JC@...
                        Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                        _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                        _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                        (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                        Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                        services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                        interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                        extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                        cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                        my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                        _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                        (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                        _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_ (http:
                        //finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                        )

                        _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                        (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                        This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                        Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                        or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                        please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                        interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                        In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                        administrator@... writes:




                        Bob Hrodey wrote:

                        > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                        > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                        > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                        > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                        > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                        > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                        > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                        Bob,

                        I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                        point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                        that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                        engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                        they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                        paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                        do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                        coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                        general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                        state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                        lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                        many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                        coverage.

                        The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                        left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                        subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                        doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                        contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                        rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                        going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                        medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                        unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                        4%).

                        I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                        ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                        say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                        say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                        these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                        just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                        I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                        states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                        all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                        ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                        accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                        national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                        state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                        local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                        normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                        get paid."








                        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                        products.
                        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.