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Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • suesarkis@aol.com
    Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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      Bob & Jim,

      As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
      precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

      Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
      any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
      put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
      not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
      what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
      clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
      One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
      suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
      under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
      ONLY !!!


      Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
      Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
      (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
      12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

      Business Owners
      RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
      Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
      Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
      (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
      INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


      Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
      Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
      (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
      Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

      Sincerely yours,
      Sue
      ________________________
      Sue Sarkis
      Sarkis Detective Agency


      (est. 1976)
      PI 6564
      _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

      1346 Ethel Street
      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
      818-242-2505
      818-242-9824 FAX

      "one Nation under God"

      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
      a military veteran !



      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
      products.
      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dts683
      ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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        Bob Hrodey wrote:

        > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
        > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
        > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
        > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
        > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
        > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
        > mileage, etc. NOT you.


        Bob,

        I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
        point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
        that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
        engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
        they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
        paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
        do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
        coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
        general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
        state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
        lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
        many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
        coverage.

        The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
        left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
        subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
        doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
        contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
        rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
        going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
        medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
        unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
        4%).

        I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
        ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
        say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
        say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
        these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
        just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

        I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
        states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
        all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
        ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
        accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
        national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
        state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
        local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
        normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
        get paid."


        Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
        Metro Detective Agency, LLC
        P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
        Office: (815) 787-1111
        Cellular: (815) 757-8940
        Fax: (866) 727-2051
        info@...
        http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
      • Bob Hrodey
        ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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          dts683 wrote:
          > Bob Hrodey wrote:
          >
          >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
          >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
          >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
          >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
          >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
          >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
          >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
          >>
          >
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
          > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
          > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
          > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
          > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
          > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
          > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
          > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
          >

          IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

          You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
          taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
          those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
          insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

          Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

          > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
          > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
          > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
          > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
          > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
          >

          Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
          contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
          the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
          insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
          for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


          --

          Enjoy,

          Bob
          ________________________________________________________________
          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          email: inquiry@... or rth@...
          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Parker
          Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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            Bob said:

            "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

            Then said:

            "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


            That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

            :o)



            -----Original Message-----
            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
            Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

            dts683 wrote:
            > Bob Hrodey wrote:
            >
            >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
            >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
            >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
            >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
            >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
            >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
            >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
            >>
            >
            >
            > Bob,
            >
            > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
            > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
            > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
            > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
            > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
            > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
            > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
            > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
            >

            IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

            You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
            taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
            those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
            insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

            Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

            > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
            > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
            > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
            > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
            > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
            >

            Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            __________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bob Hrodey
            ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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              Jim Parker wrote:
              > Bob said:
              >
              > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
              > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
              > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
              > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
              > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
              >
              > Then said:
              >
              > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
              > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
              > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
              > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
              > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
              >
              >
              > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
              >


              Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

              Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

              OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

              --

              Enjoy,

              Bob
              ________________________________________________________________
              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
              email: inquiry@... or rth@...
              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
            • dts683
              ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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                Bob Hrodey wrote:

                > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                for any claims too.

                > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                Office: (815) 787-1111
                Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                Fax: (866) 727-2051
                info@...
                http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
              • Vicki Siedow
                I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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                  I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                  I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                  couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                  comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                  better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                  cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                  resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                  have more successful outcomes, as well.



                  I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                  many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                  charities can be profitable.



                  I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                  in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                  Vicki Siedow
                  Siedow & Associates Investigations
                  & Legal Support Services
                  2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                  La Crescenta, CA 91214
                  Los Angeles County
                  CA PI License # 22852
                  800.448.6431 toll free
                  818.242.0130 local
                  818.688.3295 fax
                  <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                  <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                  Member NCISS, IWWA

                  Need economical legal help?
                  Concerned about Identity Theft?
                  Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                  Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Louis -
                  >
                  > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                  QUALITY
                  > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                  see such
                  > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                  practitioner having taken
                  > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                  back then.
                  > That was more than 30 years ago.
                  >
                  > You get what you pay for !!!
                  >
                  >
                  > Sincerely yours,
                  > Sue
                  > ________________________
                  > Sue Sarkis
                  > Sarkis Detective Agency

                  Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                  subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                  assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                  subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                  they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                  expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                  And I still make money off of their work.

                  I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                  offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                  they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                  rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                  reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                  you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                  are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                  the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                  only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                  likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                  At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                  that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                  to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                  perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                  potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                  reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                  sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                  or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                  overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                  effect on your reputation.

                  I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                  saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                  pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                  give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                  You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                  to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                  have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                  at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                  sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                  him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                  I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                  upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                  to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                  the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                  yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                  least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                  You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                  then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                  here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                  making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                  structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                  acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                  yourself.

                  Rick.

                  Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                  "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                  "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                  MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                  OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                  Phone: (888) 571-0958
                  Fax: (877) 795-9800
                  Cell: (573) 529-0808

                  Email
                  RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                  Webpage
                  http://www.rmriinc.com





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bob Hrodey
                  ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Vicki Siedow wrote:
                    > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                    > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                    That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                    early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                    was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                    exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                    Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                    literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                    penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                    of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                    happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                    course) brings in more business.

                    Truly strange.

                    Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                    with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                    A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                    firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                    it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                    for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                    a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                    many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                    frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                    day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                    At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                    he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                    friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                    was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                    about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                    he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                    sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                    said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                    if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                    billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                    pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                    fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                    product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                    "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                    He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                    if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                    if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                    the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                    his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                    effort to get a better rate.

                    Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                    --

                    Enjoy,

                    Bob
                    ________________________________________________________________
                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                    email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                  • suesarkis@aol.com
                    Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
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                      Folks -

                      Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                      Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                      losing my mind, I feel confident.

                      The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                      cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                      none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                      or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                      issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                      are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                      am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                      vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                      and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                      accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                      If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                      has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                      the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                      the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                      Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                      '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                      the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                      insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                      That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                      for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                      handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                      am not covered.

                      Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                      vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                      would I sue anyone?

                      One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                      intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                      have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                      should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                      violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                      Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                      Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                      and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                      walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                      insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                      pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                      harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                      yourself anyway.


                      Sincerely yours,
                      Sue
                      ________________________
                      Sue Sarkis
                      Sarkis Detective Agency

                      (est. 1976)
                      PI 6564
                      _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                      1346 Ethel Street
                      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                      818-242-2505
                      818-242-9824 FAX

                      "one Nation under God"

                      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                      a military veteran !



                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                      products.
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                    • Glad4JC@aol.com
                      Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sue,

                        I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                        me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                        going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                        gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                        would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                        am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                        insurance for that.

                        I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                        Gladys Brierley
                        Accurate Investigations
                        PO BOX 872
                        Newton County, Mississippi
                        601-480-3181 bus
                        601-683-2094 fax
                        Bus License # 1499
                        Glad4JC@...
                        Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                        _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                        _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                        (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                        Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                        services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                        interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                        extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                        cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                        my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                        _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                        (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                        _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                        (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                        )

                        _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                        (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                        This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                        Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                        or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                        please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                        interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                        In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                        suesarkis@... writes:




                        Folks -

                        Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                        Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                        wasn't
                        losing my mind, I feel confident.

                        The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                        cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                        coverage,
                        none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                        whether
                        or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                        issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                        are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                        am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                        vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                        mouth shut
                        and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                        accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                        If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                        has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                        for
                        the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                        the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                        Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                        '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                        the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                        insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                        guest.
                        That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                        for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                        handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                        well I
                        am not covered.

                        Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                        vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                        why
                        would I sue anyone?

                        One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                        intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                        CONTRACTEE,
                        have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                        should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                        invasion
                        violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                        Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                        Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                        and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                        walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                        insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                        any
                        pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                        harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                        yourself anyway.


                        Sincerely yours,
                        Sue
                        ________________________
                        Sue Sarkis
                        Sarkis Detective Agency

                        (est. 1976)
                        PI 6564
                        _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                        1346 Ethel Street
                        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                        818-242-2505
                        818-242-9824 FAX

                        "one Nation under God"

                        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                        a military veteran !

                        ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                        ***
                        products.
                        (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Glad4JC@aol.com
                        I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                          often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                          to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                          I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                          advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                          mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                          a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                          with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                          overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                          rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                          thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                          have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                          Gladys Brierley
                          Accurate Investigations
                          PO BOX 872
                          Newton County, Mississippi
                          601-480-3181 bus
                          601-683-2094 fax
                          Bus License # 1499
                          Glad4JC@...
                          Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                          _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                          _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                          (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                          Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                          services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                          interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                          extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                          cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                          my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                          _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                          (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                          _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_ (http:
                          //finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                          )

                          _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                          (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                          This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                          Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                          or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                          please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                          interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                          In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                          administrator@... writes:




                          Bob Hrodey wrote:

                          > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                          > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                          > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                          > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                          > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                          > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                          > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                          Bob,

                          I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                          point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                          that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                          engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                          they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                          paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                          do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                          coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                          general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                          state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                          lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                          many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                          coverage.

                          The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                          left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                          subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                          doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                          contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                          rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                          going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                          medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                          unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                          4%).

                          I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                          ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                          say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                          say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                          these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                          just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                          I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                          states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                          all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                          ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                          accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                          national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                          state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                          local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                          normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                          get paid."








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