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RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • Vicki Siedow
    Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
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      Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;)



      Vicki Siedow
      Siedow & Associates Investigations
      & Legal Support Services
      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
      La Crescenta, CA 91214
      Los Angeles County
      CA PI License # 22852
      800.448.6431 toll free
      818.242.0130 local
      818.688.3295 fax
      <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
      <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
      Member NCISS, IWWA

      Need economical legal help?
      Concerned about Identity Theft?
      Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Jim Parker
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:38 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



      <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
      They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>

      Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
      you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
      charge.

      Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

      :o)

      Jim

      -----Original Message-----
      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

      You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
      more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
      ridicolous hyperbole.

      _____

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

      Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
      > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
      you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
      isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
      to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
      >

      Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
      If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
      your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
      to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
      oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
      me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
      they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
      where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
      time for a 1-2 hours interview.

      Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
      counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
      the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
      for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

      > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
      and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
      sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
      WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
      >

      Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
      "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
      insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
      argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
      equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
      _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
      etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
      happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
      you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

      Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
      and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
      investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
      going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
      always, they can form a couple of impressions:

      a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
      it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
      help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

      or

      b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

      How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
      an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
      favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
      investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
      wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
      to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
      rate."

      > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
      California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
      them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
      >

      That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
      do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

      I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
      One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
      rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
      PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
      were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
      were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
      comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
      the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
      submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
      their money.

      My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

      Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
      they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
      where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
      a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
      compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
      property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
      $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
      $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
      statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
      heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
      was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
      crap or worse in two interviews.

      Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
      time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
      insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
      conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
      somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
      as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
      knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
      ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

      I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
      back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
      Words to live by.

      >
      > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
      but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
      are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

      They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
      poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

      --

      Enjoy,

      Bob
      __________________________________________________________
      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
      email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vicki Siedow
      Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing. I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J I know
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing.
        I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J



        I know I'm unusually agreeable tonight, but I went to the Xmas parade, and
        am in a good mood.



        Vicki Siedow
        Siedow & Associates Investigations
        & Legal Support Services
        2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
        La Crescenta, CA 91214
        Los Angeles County
        CA PI License # 22852
        800.448.6431 toll free
        818.242.0130 local
        818.688.3295 fax
        <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
        <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
        Member NCISS, IWWA

        Need economical legal help?
        Concerned about Identity Theft?
        Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



        Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
        > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
        you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
        isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
        to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
        >

        Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
        If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
        your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
        to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
        oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
        me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
        they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
        where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
        time for a 1-2 hours interview.

        Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
        counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
        the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
        for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

        > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
        and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
        sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
        WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
        >

        Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
        "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
        insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
        argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
        equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
        _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
        etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
        happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
        you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

        Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
        and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
        investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
        going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
        always, they can form a couple of impressions:

        a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
        it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
        help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

        or

        b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

        How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
        an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
        favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
        investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
        wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
        to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
        rate."

        > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
        California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
        them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
        >

        That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
        do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

        I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
        One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
        rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
        PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
        were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
        were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
        comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
        the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
        submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
        their money.

        My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

        Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
        they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
        where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
        a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
        compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
        property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
        $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
        $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
        statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
        heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
        was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
        crap or worse in two interviews.

        Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
        time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
        insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
        conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
        somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
        as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
        knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
        ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

        I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
        back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
        Words to live by.

        >
        > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
        but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
        are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

        They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
        poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

        --

        Enjoy,

        Bob
        __________________________________________________________
        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
        email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
        <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suesarkis@aol.com
        Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Bob & Jim,

          As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
          precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

          Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
          any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
          put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
          not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
          what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
          clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
          One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
          suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
          under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
          ONLY !!!


          Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
          Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
          (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
          12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

          Business Owners
          RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
          Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
          Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
          (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
          INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


          Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
          Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
          (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
          Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

          Sincerely yours,
          Sue
          ________________________
          Sue Sarkis
          Sarkis Detective Agency


          (est. 1976)
          PI 6564
          _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

          1346 Ethel Street
          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
          818-242-2505
          818-242-9824 FAX

          "one Nation under God"

          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
          a military veteran !



          **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
          products.
          (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dts683
          ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Bob Hrodey wrote:

            > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
            > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
            > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
            > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
            > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
            > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
            > mileage, etc. NOT you.


            Bob,

            I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
            point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
            that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
            engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
            they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
            paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
            do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
            coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
            general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
            state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
            lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
            many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
            coverage.

            The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
            left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
            subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
            doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
            contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
            rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
            going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
            medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
            unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
            4%).

            I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
            ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
            say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
            say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
            these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
            just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

            I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
            states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
            all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
            ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
            accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
            national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
            state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
            local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
            normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
            get paid."


            Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
            Metro Detective Agency, LLC
            P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
            Office: (815) 787-1111
            Cellular: (815) 757-8940
            Fax: (866) 727-2051
            info@...
            http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
          • Bob Hrodey
            ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              dts683 wrote:
              > Bob Hrodey wrote:
              >
              >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
              >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
              >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
              >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
              >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
              >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
              >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
              >>
              >
              >
              > Bob,
              >
              > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
              > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
              > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
              > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
              > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
              > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
              > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
              > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
              >

              IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

              You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
              taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
              those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
              insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

              Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

              > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
              > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
              > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
              > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
              > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
              >

              Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


              --

              Enjoy,

              Bob
              ________________________________________________________________
              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
              email: inquiry@... or rth@...
              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Parker
              Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Bob said:

                "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

                Then said:

                "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


                That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

                :o)



                -----Original Message-----
                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                dts683 wrote:
                > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                >
                >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                >>
                >
                >
                > Bob,
                >
                > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                >

                IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                >

                Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                --

                Enjoy,

                Bob
                __________________________________________________________
                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bob Hrodey
                ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jim Parker wrote:
                  > Bob said:
                  >
                  > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                  > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                  > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                  > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                  > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                  >
                  > Then said:
                  >
                  > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                  > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                  > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                  > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                  > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                  >
                  >
                  > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
                  >


                  Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

                  Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

                  OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

                  --

                  Enjoy,

                  Bob
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                • dts683
                  ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bob Hrodey wrote:

                    > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                    > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                    Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                    shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                    PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                    the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                    claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                    an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                    for any claims too.

                    > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                    Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                    too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                    actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                    understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                    coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                    agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                    coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                    personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                    could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                    Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                    Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                    P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                    Office: (815) 787-1111
                    Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                    Fax: (866) 727-2051
                    info@...
                    http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                  • Vicki Siedow
                    I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                      I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                      couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                      comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                      better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                      cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                      resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                      have more successful outcomes, as well.



                      I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                      many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                      charities can be profitable.



                      I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                      in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                      Vicki Siedow
                      Siedow & Associates Investigations
                      & Legal Support Services
                      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                      La Crescenta, CA 91214
                      Los Angeles County
                      CA PI License # 22852
                      800.448.6431 toll free
                      818.242.0130 local
                      818.688.3295 fax
                      <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                      <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                      Member NCISS, IWWA

                      Need economical legal help?
                      Concerned about Identity Theft?
                      Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Louis -
                      >
                      > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                      QUALITY
                      > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                      see such
                      > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                      practitioner having taken
                      > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                      back then.
                      > That was more than 30 years ago.
                      >
                      > You get what you pay for !!!
                      >
                      >
                      > Sincerely yours,
                      > Sue
                      > ________________________
                      > Sue Sarkis
                      > Sarkis Detective Agency

                      Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                      subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                      assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                      subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                      they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                      expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                      And I still make money off of their work.

                      I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                      offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                      they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                      rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                      reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                      you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                      are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                      the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                      only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                      likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                      At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                      that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                      to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                      perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                      potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                      reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                      sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                      or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                      overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                      effect on your reputation.

                      I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                      saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                      pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                      give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                      You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                      to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                      have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                      at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                      sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                      him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                      I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                      upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                      to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                      the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                      yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                      least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                      You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                      then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                      here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                      making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                      structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                      acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                      yourself.

                      Rick.

                      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                      "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                      "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                      MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                      OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                      Phone: (888) 571-0958
                      Fax: (877) 795-9800
                      Cell: (573) 529-0808

                      Email
                      RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                      Webpage
                      http://www.rmriinc.com





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bob Hrodey
                      ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Vicki Siedow wrote:
                        > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                        > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                        That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                        early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                        was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                        exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                        Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                        literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                        penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                        of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                        happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                        course) brings in more business.

                        Truly strange.

                        Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                        with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                        A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                        firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                        it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                        for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                        a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                        many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                        frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                        day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                        At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                        he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                        friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                        was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                        about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                        he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                        sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                        said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                        if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                        billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                        pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                        fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                        product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                        "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                        He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                        if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                        if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                        the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                        his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                        effort to get a better rate.

                        Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        ________________________________________________________________
                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                      • suesarkis@aol.com
                        Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Folks -

                          Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                          Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                          losing my mind, I feel confident.

                          The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                          cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                          none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                          or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                          issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                          are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                          am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                          vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                          and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                          accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                          If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                          has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                          the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                          the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                          Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                          '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                          the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                          insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                          That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                          for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                          handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                          am not covered.

                          Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                          vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                          would I sue anyone?

                          One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                          intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                          have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                          should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                          violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                          Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                          Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                          and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                          walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                          insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                          pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                          harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                          yourself anyway.


                          Sincerely yours,
                          Sue
                          ________________________
                          Sue Sarkis
                          Sarkis Detective Agency

                          (est. 1976)
                          PI 6564
                          _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                          1346 Ethel Street
                          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                          818-242-2505
                          818-242-9824 FAX

                          "one Nation under God"

                          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                          a military veteran !



                          **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                          products.
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                        • Glad4JC@aol.com
                          Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sue,

                            I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                            me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                            going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                            gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                            would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                            am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                            insurance for that.

                            I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                            Gladys Brierley
                            Accurate Investigations
                            PO BOX 872
                            Newton County, Mississippi
                            601-480-3181 bus
                            601-683-2094 fax
                            Bus License # 1499
                            Glad4JC@...
                            Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                            _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                            _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                            (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                            Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                            services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                            interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                            extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                            cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                            my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

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                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
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                            )

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                            (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                            This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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                            In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                            suesarkis@... writes:




                            Folks -

                            Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                            Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                            wasn't
                            losing my mind, I feel confident.

                            The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                            cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                            coverage,
                            none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                            whether
                            or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                            issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                            are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                            am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                            vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                            mouth shut
                            and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                            accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                            If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                            has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                            for
                            the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                            the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                            Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                            '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                            the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                            insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                            guest.
                            That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                            for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                            handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                            well I
                            am not covered.

                            Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                            vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                            why
                            would I sue anyone?

                            One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                            intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                            CONTRACTEE,
                            have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                            should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                            invasion
                            violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                            Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                            Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                            and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                            walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                            insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                            any
                            pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                            harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                            yourself anyway.


                            Sincerely yours,
                            Sue
                            ________________________
                            Sue Sarkis
                            Sarkis Detective Agency

                            (est. 1976)
                            PI 6564
                            _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                            1346 Ethel Street
                            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                            818-242-2505
                            818-242-9824 FAX

                            "one Nation under God"

                            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                            a military veteran !

                            ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                            ***
                            products.
                            (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                            (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                          • Glad4JC@aol.com
                            I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                              often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                              to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                              I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                              advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                              mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                              a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                              with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                              overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                              rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                              thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                              have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                              Gladys Brierley
                              Accurate Investigations
                              PO BOX 872
                              Newton County, Mississippi
                              601-480-3181 bus
                              601-683-2094 fax
                              Bus License # 1499
                              Glad4JC@...
                              Member NAIS, ACI, IA
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                              Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                              services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                              interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                              extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                              cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                              my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

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                              )

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                              In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                              administrator@... writes:




                              Bob Hrodey wrote:

                              > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                              > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                              > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                              > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                              > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                              > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                              > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                              Bob,

                              I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                              point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                              that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                              engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                              they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                              paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                              do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                              coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                              general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                              state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                              lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                              many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                              coverage.

                              The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                              left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                              subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                              doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                              contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                              rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                              going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                              medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                              unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                              4%).

                              I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                              ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                              say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                              say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                              these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                              just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                              I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                              states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                              all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                              ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                              accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                              national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                              state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                              local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                              normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                              get paid."








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