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RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • Jim Parker
    Well, there s a novel
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1 10:37 PM
      <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
      They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>


      Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
      you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
      charge.

      Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

      :o)

      Jim



      -----Original Message-----
      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

      You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
      more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
      ridicolous hyperbole.

      _____

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

      Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
      > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
      you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
      isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
      to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
      >

      Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
      If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
      your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
      to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
      oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
      me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
      they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
      where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
      time for a 1-2 hours interview.

      Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
      counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
      the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
      for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

      > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
      and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
      sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
      WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
      >

      Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
      "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
      insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
      argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
      equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
      _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
      etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
      happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
      you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

      Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
      and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
      investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
      going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
      always, they can form a couple of impressions:

      a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
      it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
      help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

      or

      b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

      How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
      an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
      favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
      investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
      wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
      to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
      rate."

      > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
      California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
      them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
      >

      That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
      do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

      I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
      One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
      rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
      PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
      were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
      were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
      comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
      the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
      submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
      their money.

      My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

      Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
      they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
      where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
      a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
      compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
      property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
      $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
      $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
      statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
      heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
      was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
      crap or worse in two interviews.

      Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
      time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
      insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
      conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
      somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
      as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
      knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
      ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

      I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
      back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
      Words to live by.

      >
      > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
      but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
      are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

      They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
      poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

      --

      Enjoy,

      Bob
      __________________________________________________________
      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
      email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ricky Gurley
      ... then ... LMAO! Rick. Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/ 2101 W. Broadway
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1 10:40 PM
        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
        >
        > <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
        > They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>
        >
        >
        > Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases,
        then
        > you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
        > charge.
        >
        > Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?
        >
        > :o)
        >
        > Jim

        LMAO!


        Rick.


        Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
        Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
        Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
        2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
        Phone: (888) 571-0958
        Fax: (877) 795-9800
        Cell: (573) 529-0808
        Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
        "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

        RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
      • Vicki Siedow
        Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 1 10:50 PM
          Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;)



          Vicki Siedow
          Siedow & Associates Investigations
          & Legal Support Services
          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
          La Crescenta, CA 91214
          Los Angeles County
          CA PI License # 22852
          800.448.6431 toll free
          818.242.0130 local
          818.688.3295 fax
          <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
          <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
          Member NCISS, IWWA

          Need economical legal help?
          Concerned about Identity Theft?
          Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Jim Parker
          Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:38 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



          <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
          They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>

          Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
          you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
          charge.

          Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

          :o)

          Jim

          -----Original Message-----
          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
          Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

          You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
          more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
          ridicolous hyperbole.

          _____

          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
          Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

          Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
          > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
          you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
          isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
          to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
          >

          Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
          If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
          your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
          to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
          oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
          me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
          they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
          where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
          time for a 1-2 hours interview.

          Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
          counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
          the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
          for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

          > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
          and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
          sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
          WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
          >

          Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
          "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
          insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
          argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
          equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
          _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
          etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
          happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
          you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

          Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
          and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
          investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
          going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
          always, they can form a couple of impressions:

          a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
          it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
          help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

          or

          b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

          How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
          an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
          favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
          investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
          wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
          to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
          rate."

          > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
          California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
          them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
          >

          That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
          do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

          I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
          One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
          rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
          PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
          were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
          were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
          comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
          the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
          submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
          their money.

          My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

          Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
          they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
          where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
          a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
          compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
          property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
          $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
          $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
          statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
          heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
          was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
          crap or worse in two interviews.

          Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
          time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
          insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
          conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
          somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
          as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
          knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
          ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

          I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
          back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
          Words to live by.

          >
          > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
          but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
          are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

          They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
          poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

          --

          Enjoy,

          Bob
          __________________________________________________________
          Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
          Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
          <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
          <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
          <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
          Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vicki Siedow
          Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing. I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J I know
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 1 11:53 PM
            Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing.
            I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J



            I know I'm unusually agreeable tonight, but I went to the Xmas parade, and
            am in a good mood.



            Vicki Siedow
            Siedow & Associates Investigations
            & Legal Support Services
            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
            La Crescenta, CA 91214
            Los Angeles County
            CA PI License # 22852
            800.448.6431 toll free
            818.242.0130 local
            818.688.3295 fax
            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
            Member NCISS, IWWA

            Need economical legal help?
            Concerned about Identity Theft?
            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



            Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
            > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
            you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
            isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
            to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
            >

            Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
            If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
            your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
            to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
            oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
            me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
            they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
            where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
            time for a 1-2 hours interview.

            Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
            counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
            the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
            for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

            > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
            and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
            sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
            WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
            >

            Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
            "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
            insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
            argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
            equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
            _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
            etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
            happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
            you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

            Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
            and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
            investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
            going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
            always, they can form a couple of impressions:

            a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
            it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
            help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

            or

            b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

            How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
            an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
            favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
            investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
            wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
            to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
            rate."

            > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
            California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
            them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
            >

            That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
            do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

            I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
            One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
            rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
            PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
            were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
            were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
            comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
            the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
            submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
            their money.

            My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

            Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
            they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
            where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
            a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
            compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
            property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
            $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
            $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
            statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
            heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
            was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
            crap or worse in two interviews.

            Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
            time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
            insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
            conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
            somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
            as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
            knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
            ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

            I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
            back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
            Words to live by.

            >
            > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
            but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
            are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

            They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
            poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            __________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suesarkis@aol.com
            Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 2 12:48 AM
              Bob & Jim,

              As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
              precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

              Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
              any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
              put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
              not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
              what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
              clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
              One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
              suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
              under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
              ONLY !!!


              Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
              Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
              (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
              12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

              Business Owners
              RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
              Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
              Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
              (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
              INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


              Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
              Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
              (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
              Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

              Sincerely yours,
              Sue
              ________________________
              Sue Sarkis
              Sarkis Detective Agency


              (est. 1976)
              PI 6564
              _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

              1346 Ethel Street
              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
              818-242-2505
              818-242-9824 FAX

              "one Nation under God"

              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
              a military veteran !



              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
              products.
              (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dts683
              ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2 11:16 AM
                Bob Hrodey wrote:

                > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                > mileage, etc. NOT you.


                Bob,

                I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                coverage.

                The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                4%).

                I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                get paid."


                Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                Office: (815) 787-1111
                Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                Fax: (866) 727-2051
                info@...
                http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
              • Bob Hrodey
                ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2 11:55 AM
                  dts683 wrote:
                  > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                  >
                  >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                  >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                  >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                  >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                  >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                  >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                  >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > Bob,
                  >
                  > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                  > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                  > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                  > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                  > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                  > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                  > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                  > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                  >

                  IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                  You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                  taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                  those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                  insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                  Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                  contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                  the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                  insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                  for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                  > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                  > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                  > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                  > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                  > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                  >

                  Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                  contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                  the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                  insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                  for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


                  --

                  Enjoy,

                  Bob
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jim Parker
                  Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2 12:04 PM
                    Bob said:

                    "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

                    Then said:

                    "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


                    That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

                    :o)



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                    Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                    dts683 wrote:
                    > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                    >
                    >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                    >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                    >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                    >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                    >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                    >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                    >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > Bob,
                    >
                    > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                    > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                    > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                    > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                    > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                    > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                    > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                    > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                    >

                    IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                    You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                    taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                    those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                    insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                    > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                    > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                    > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                    > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                    > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                    >

                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                    --

                    Enjoy,

                    Bob
                    __________________________________________________________
                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                    email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                    <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bob Hrodey
                    ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2 12:12 PM
                      Jim Parker wrote:
                      > Bob said:
                      >
                      > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                      >
                      > Then said:
                      >
                      > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                      >
                      >
                      > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
                      >


                      Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

                      Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

                      OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

                      --

                      Enjoy,

                      Bob
                      ________________________________________________________________
                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                      email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                    • dts683
                      ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2 1:09 PM
                        Bob Hrodey wrote:

                        > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                        > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                        > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                        > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                        > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                        Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                        shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                        PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                        the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                        claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                        an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                        for any claims too.

                        > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                        Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                        too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                        actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                        understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                        coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                        agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                        coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                        personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                        could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                        Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                        Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                        P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                        Office: (815) 787-1111
                        Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                        Fax: (866) 727-2051
                        info@...
                        http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                      • Vicki Siedow
                        I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2 3:23 PM
                          I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                          I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                          couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                          comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                          better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                          cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                          resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                          have more successful outcomes, as well.



                          I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                          many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                          charities can be profitable.



                          I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                          in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                          Vicki Siedow
                          Siedow & Associates Investigations
                          & Legal Support Services
                          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                          La Crescenta, CA 91214
                          Los Angeles County
                          CA PI License # 22852
                          800.448.6431 toll free
                          818.242.0130 local
                          818.688.3295 fax
                          <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                          <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                          Member NCISS, IWWA

                          Need economical legal help?
                          Concerned about Identity Theft?
                          Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                          Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Louis -
                          >
                          > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                          QUALITY
                          > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                          see such
                          > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                          practitioner having taken
                          > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                          back then.
                          > That was more than 30 years ago.
                          >
                          > You get what you pay for !!!
                          >
                          >
                          > Sincerely yours,
                          > Sue
                          > ________________________
                          > Sue Sarkis
                          > Sarkis Detective Agency

                          Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                          subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                          assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                          subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                          they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                          expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                          And I still make money off of their work.

                          I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                          offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                          they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                          rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                          reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                          you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                          are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                          the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                          only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                          likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                          At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                          that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                          to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                          perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                          potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                          reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                          sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                          or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                          overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                          effect on your reputation.

                          I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                          saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                          pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                          give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                          You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                          to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                          have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                          at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                          sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                          him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                          I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                          upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                          to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                          the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                          yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                          least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                          You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                          then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                          here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                          making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                          structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                          acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                          yourself.

                          Rick.

                          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                          "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                          "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                          MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                          OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                          Phone: (888) 571-0958
                          Fax: (877) 795-9800
                          Cell: (573) 529-0808

                          Email
                          RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                          Webpage
                          http://www.rmriinc.com





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bob Hrodey
                          ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 2 4:00 PM
                            Vicki Siedow wrote:
                            > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                            > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                            That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                            early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                            was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                            exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                            Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                            literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                            penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                            of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                            happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                            course) brings in more business.

                            Truly strange.

                            Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                            with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                            A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                            firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                            it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                            for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                            a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                            many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                            frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                            day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                            At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                            he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                            friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                            was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                            about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                            he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                            sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                            said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                            if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                            billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                            pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                            fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                            product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                            "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                            He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                            if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                            if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                            the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                            his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                            effort to get a better rate.

                            Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                            --

                            Enjoy,

                            Bob
                            ________________________________________________________________
                            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                            email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                          • suesarkis@aol.com
                            Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 2 5:38 PM
                              Folks -

                              Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                              Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                              losing my mind, I feel confident.

                              The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                              cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                              none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                              or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                              issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                              are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                              am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                              vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                              and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                              accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                              If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                              has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                              the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                              the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                              Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                              '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                              the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                              insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                              That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                              for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                              handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                              am not covered.

                              Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                              vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                              would I sue anyone?

                              One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                              intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                              have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                              should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                              violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                              Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                              Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                              and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                              walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                              insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                              pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                              harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                              yourself anyway.


                              Sincerely yours,
                              Sue
                              ________________________
                              Sue Sarkis
                              Sarkis Detective Agency

                              (est. 1976)
                              PI 6564
                              _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                              1346 Ethel Street
                              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                              818-242-2505
                              818-242-9824 FAX

                              "one Nation under God"

                              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                              a military veteran !



                              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
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                            • Glad4JC@aol.com
                              Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 2 8:25 PM
                                Sue,

                                I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                                me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                                going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                                gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                                would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                                am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                                insurance for that.

                                I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                                Gladys Brierley
                                Accurate Investigations
                                PO BOX 872
                                Newton County, Mississippi
                                601-480-3181 bus
                                601-683-2094 fax
                                Bus License # 1499
                                Glad4JC@...
                                Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                )

                                _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                                interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                                In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                suesarkis@... writes:




                                Folks -

                                Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                wasn't
                                losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                                coverage,
                                none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                                whether
                                or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                                mouth shut
                                and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                                for
                                the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                                guest.
                                That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                                well I
                                am not covered.

                                Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                                why
                                would I sue anyone?

                                One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                                CONTRACTEE,
                                have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                                invasion
                                violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                                any
                                pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                yourself anyway.


                                Sincerely yours,
                                Sue
                                ________________________
                                Sue Sarkis
                                Sarkis Detective Agency

                                (est. 1976)
                                PI 6564
                                _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                                1346 Ethel Street
                                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                818-242-2505
                                818-242-9824 FAX

                                "one Nation under God"

                                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                a military veteran !

                                ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                                ***
                                products.
                                (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                products.
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 2 8:47 PM
                                  I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                                  often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                                  to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                                  I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                                  advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                                  mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                                  a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                                  with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                                  overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                                  rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                                  thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                                  have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                                  Gladys Brierley
                                  Accurate Investigations
                                  PO BOX 872
                                  Newton County, Mississippi
                                  601-480-3181 bus
                                  601-683-2094 fax
                                  Bus License # 1499
                                  Glad4JC@...
                                  Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                  _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                  _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                  Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                  services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                  interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                  extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                  cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                  my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                  _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                  _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_ (http:
                                  //finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                  )

                                  _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                  This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                  Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                  or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                  please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                                  interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                                  In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                  administrator@... writes:




                                  Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                  > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                  > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                  > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                  > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                  > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                  > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                  > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                                  Bob,

                                  I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                  point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                  that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                  engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                  they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                  paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                  do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                  coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                  general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                                  state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                                  lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                                  many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                                  coverage.

                                  The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                  left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                  subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                  doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                  contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                  rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                                  going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                                  medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                                  unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                                  4%).

                                  I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                                  ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                                  say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                                  say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                                  these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                                  just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                                  I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                                  states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                                  all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                                  ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                                  accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                                  national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                                  state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                                  local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                                  normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                                  get paid."








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