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Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • Ricky Gurley
    ... Yep Robert, YOU ARE THE MAN ! The rest of us are just poor, pacer driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the Government Cheese
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Johnson" <contact@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
      > more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
      > ridicolous hyperbole.


      Yep Robert, YOU ARE "THE MAN"! The rest of us are just poor, pacer
      driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the
      Government Cheese Line on Wednesdays, and at the Salvation Army on
      Mondays, looking for Hawaiian Shirts so we can try to look like Magnum
      P.I.! We aspire to be as successful as you, Robert...

      Maybe you would like to give a webinar on success in the P.I. Business
      so we can all learn to be so successful like you?

      Rick.


      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
      Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
      Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
      2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
      Phone: (888) 571-0958
      Fax: (877) 795-9800
      Cell: (573) 529-0808
      Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
      "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

      RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
    • Jim Parker
      Well, there s a novel
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
        They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>


        Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
        you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
        charge.

        Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

        :o)

        Jim



        -----Original Message-----
        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

        You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
        more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
        ridicolous hyperbole.

        _____

        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
        On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

        Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
        > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
        you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
        isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
        to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
        >

        Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
        If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
        your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
        to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
        oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
        me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
        they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
        where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
        time for a 1-2 hours interview.

        Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
        counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
        the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
        for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

        > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
        and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
        sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
        WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
        >

        Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
        "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
        insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
        argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
        equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
        _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
        etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
        happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
        you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

        Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
        and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
        investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
        going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
        always, they can form a couple of impressions:

        a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
        it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
        help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

        or

        b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

        How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
        an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
        favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
        investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
        wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
        to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
        rate."

        > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
        California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
        them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
        >

        That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
        do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

        I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
        One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
        rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
        PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
        were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
        were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
        comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
        the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
        submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
        their money.

        My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

        Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
        they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
        where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
        a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
        compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
        property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
        $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
        $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
        statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
        heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
        was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
        crap or worse in two interviews.

        Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
        time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
        insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
        conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
        somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
        as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
        knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
        ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

        I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
        back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
        Words to live by.

        >
        > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
        but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
        are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

        They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
        poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

        --

        Enjoy,

        Bob
        __________________________________________________________
        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
        email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
        <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
        <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ricky Gurley
        ... then ... LMAO! Rick. Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/ 2101 W. Broadway
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
          >
          > <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
          > They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>
          >
          >
          > Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases,
          then
          > you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
          > charge.
          >
          > Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?
          >
          > :o)
          >
          > Jim

          LMAO!


          Rick.


          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
          Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
          Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
          2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
          Phone: (888) 571-0958
          Fax: (877) 795-9800
          Cell: (573) 529-0808
          Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
          "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

          RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
        • Vicki Siedow
          Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;)



            Vicki Siedow
            Siedow & Associates Investigations
            & Legal Support Services
            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
            La Crescenta, CA 91214
            Los Angeles County
            CA PI License # 22852
            800.448.6431 toll free
            818.242.0130 local
            818.688.3295 fax
            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
            Member NCISS, IWWA

            Need economical legal help?
            Concerned about Identity Theft?
            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Jim Parker
            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:38 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



            <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
            They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>

            Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
            you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
            charge.

            Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

            :o)

            Jim

            -----Original Message-----
            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

            You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
            more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
            ridicolous hyperbole.

            _____

            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

            Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
            > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
            you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
            isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
            to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
            >

            Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
            If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
            your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
            to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
            oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
            me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
            they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
            where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
            time for a 1-2 hours interview.

            Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
            counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
            the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
            for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

            > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
            and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
            sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
            WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
            >

            Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
            "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
            insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
            argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
            equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
            _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
            etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
            happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
            you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

            Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
            and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
            investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
            going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
            always, they can form a couple of impressions:

            a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
            it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
            help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

            or

            b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

            How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
            an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
            favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
            investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
            wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
            to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
            rate."

            > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
            California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
            them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
            >

            That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
            do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

            I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
            One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
            rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
            PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
            were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
            were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
            comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
            the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
            submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
            their money.

            My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

            Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
            they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
            where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
            a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
            compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
            property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
            $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
            $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
            statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
            heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
            was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
            crap or worse in two interviews.

            Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
            time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
            insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
            conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
            somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
            as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
            knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
            ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

            I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
            back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
            Words to live by.

            >
            > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
            but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
            are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

            They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
            poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            __________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vicki Siedow
            Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing. I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J I know
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing.
              I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J



              I know I'm unusually agreeable tonight, but I went to the Xmas parade, and
              am in a good mood.



              Vicki Siedow
              Siedow & Associates Investigations
              & Legal Support Services
              2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
              La Crescenta, CA 91214
              Los Angeles County
              CA PI License # 22852
              800.448.6431 toll free
              818.242.0130 local
              818.688.3295 fax
              <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
              <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
              Member NCISS, IWWA

              Need economical legal help?
              Concerned about Identity Theft?
              Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
              Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



              Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
              > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
              you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
              isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
              to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
              >

              Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
              If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
              your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
              to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
              oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
              me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
              they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
              where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
              time for a 1-2 hours interview.

              Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
              counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
              the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
              for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

              > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
              and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
              sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
              WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
              >

              Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
              "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
              insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
              argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
              equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
              _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
              etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
              happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
              you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

              Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
              and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
              investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
              going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
              always, they can form a couple of impressions:

              a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
              it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
              help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

              or

              b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

              How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
              an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
              favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
              investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
              wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
              to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
              rate."

              > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
              California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
              them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
              >

              That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
              do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

              I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
              One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
              rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
              PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
              were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
              were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
              comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
              the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
              submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
              their money.

              My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

              Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
              they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
              where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
              a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
              compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
              property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
              $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
              $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
              statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
              heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
              was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
              crap or worse in two interviews.

              Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
              time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
              insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
              conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
              somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
              as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
              knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
              ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

              I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
              back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
              Words to live by.

              >
              > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
              but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
              are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

              They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
              poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

              --

              Enjoy,

              Bob
              __________________________________________________________
              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
              email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
              <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • suesarkis@aol.com
              Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Bob & Jim,

                As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
                precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

                Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
                any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
                put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
                not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
                what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
                clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
                One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
                suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
                under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
                ONLY !!!


                Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
                12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

                Business Owners
                RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
                Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
                Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
                (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
                INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


                Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
                Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

                Sincerely yours,
                Sue
                ________________________
                Sue Sarkis
                Sarkis Detective Agency


                (est. 1976)
                PI 6564
                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                1346 Ethel Street
                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                818-242-2505
                818-242-9824 FAX

                "one Nation under God"

                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                a military veteran !



                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                products.
                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dts683
                ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bob Hrodey wrote:

                  > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                  > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                  > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                  > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                  > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                  > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                  > mileage, etc. NOT you.


                  Bob,

                  I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                  point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                  that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                  engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                  they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                  paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                  do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                  coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                  general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                  state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                  lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                  many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                  coverage.

                  The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                  left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                  subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                  doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                  contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                  rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                  going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                  medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                  unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                  4%).

                  I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                  ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                  say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                  say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                  these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                  just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                  I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                  states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                  all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                  ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                  accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                  national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                  state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                  local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                  normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                  get paid."


                  Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                  Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                  P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                  Office: (815) 787-1111
                  Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                  Fax: (866) 727-2051
                  info@...
                  http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                • Bob Hrodey
                  ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    dts683 wrote:
                    > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                    >
                    >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                    >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                    >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                    >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                    >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                    >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                    >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > Bob,
                    >
                    > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                    > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                    > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                    > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                    > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                    > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                    > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                    > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                    >

                    IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                    You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                    taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                    those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                    insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                    > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                    > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                    > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                    > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                    > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                    >

                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


                    --

                    Enjoy,

                    Bob
                    ________________________________________________________________
                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                    email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jim Parker
                    Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bob said:

                      "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

                      Then said:

                      "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


                      That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

                      :o)



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                      dts683 wrote:
                      > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                      >
                      >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                      >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                      >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                      >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                      >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                      >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                      >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > Bob,
                      >
                      > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                      > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                      > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                      > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                      > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                      > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                      > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                      > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                      >

                      IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                      You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                      taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                      those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                      insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                      Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                      > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                      > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                      > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                      > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                      > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                      >

                      Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                      --

                      Enjoy,

                      Bob
                      __________________________________________________________
                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                      email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bob Hrodey
                      ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jim Parker wrote:
                        > Bob said:
                        >
                        > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                        > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                        > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                        > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                        > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                        >
                        > Then said:
                        >
                        > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                        > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                        > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                        > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                        > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                        >
                        >
                        > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
                        >


                        Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

                        Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

                        OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        ________________________________________________________________
                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                      • dts683
                        ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Bob Hrodey wrote:

                          > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                          > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                          > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                          > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                          > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                          Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                          shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                          PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                          the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                          claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                          an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                          for any claims too.

                          > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                          Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                          too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                          actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                          understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                          coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                          agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                          coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                          personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                          could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                          Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                          Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                          P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                          Office: (815) 787-1111
                          Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                          Fax: (866) 727-2051
                          info@...
                          http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                        • Vicki Siedow
                          I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                            I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                            couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                            comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                            better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                            cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                            resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                            have more successful outcomes, as well.



                            I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                            many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                            charities can be profitable.



                            I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                            in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                            Vicki Siedow
                            Siedow & Associates Investigations
                            & Legal Support Services
                            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                            La Crescenta, CA 91214
                            Los Angeles County
                            CA PI License # 22852
                            800.448.6431 toll free
                            818.242.0130 local
                            818.688.3295 fax
                            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                            Member NCISS, IWWA

                            Need economical legal help?
                            Concerned about Identity Theft?
                            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Louis -
                            >
                            > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                            QUALITY
                            > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                            see such
                            > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                            practitioner having taken
                            > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                            back then.
                            > That was more than 30 years ago.
                            >
                            > You get what you pay for !!!
                            >
                            >
                            > Sincerely yours,
                            > Sue
                            > ________________________
                            > Sue Sarkis
                            > Sarkis Detective Agency

                            Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                            subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                            assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                            subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                            they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                            expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                            And I still make money off of their work.

                            I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                            offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                            they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                            rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                            reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                            you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                            are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                            the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                            only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                            likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                            At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                            that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                            to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                            perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                            potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                            reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                            sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                            or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                            overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                            effect on your reputation.

                            I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                            saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                            pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                            give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                            You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                            to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                            have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                            at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                            sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                            him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                            I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                            upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                            to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                            the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                            yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                            least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                            You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                            then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                            here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                            making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                            structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                            acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                            yourself.

                            Rick.

                            Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                            "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                            "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                            MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                            OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                            Phone: (888) 571-0958
                            Fax: (877) 795-9800
                            Cell: (573) 529-0808

                            Email
                            RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                            Webpage
                            http://www.rmriinc.com





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bob Hrodey
                            ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Vicki Siedow wrote:
                              > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                              > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                              That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                              early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                              was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                              exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                              Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                              literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                              penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                              of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                              happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                              course) brings in more business.

                              Truly strange.

                              Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                              with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                              A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                              firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                              it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                              for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                              a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                              many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                              frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                              day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                              At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                              he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                              friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                              was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                              about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                              he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                              sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                              said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                              if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                              billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                              pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                              fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                              product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                              "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                              He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                              if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                              if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                              the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                              his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                              effort to get a better rate.

                              Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                              --

                              Enjoy,

                              Bob
                              ________________________________________________________________
                              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                              email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                            • suesarkis@aol.com
                              Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Folks -

                                Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                                losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                                none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                                or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                                and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                                the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                                That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                                am not covered.

                                Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                                would I sue anyone?

                                One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                                have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                                violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                                pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                yourself anyway.


                                Sincerely yours,
                                Sue
                                ________________________
                                Sue Sarkis
                                Sarkis Detective Agency

                                (est. 1976)
                                PI 6564
                                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                1346 Ethel Street
                                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                818-242-2505
                                818-242-9824 FAX

                                "one Nation under God"

                                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                a military veteran !



                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                products.
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                              • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Sue,

                                  I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                                  me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                                  going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                                  gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                                  would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                                  am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                                  insurance for that.

                                  I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                                  Gladys Brierley
                                  Accurate Investigations
                                  PO BOX 872
                                  Newton County, Mississippi
                                  601-480-3181 bus
                                  601-683-2094 fax
                                  Bus License # 1499
                                  Glad4JC@...
                                  Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                  _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                  _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                  Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                  services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                  interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                  extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                  cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                  my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                  _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                  _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                  (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                  )

                                  _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                  This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                  Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                  or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                  please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                                  interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                                  In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                  suesarkis@... writes:




                                  Folks -

                                  Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                  Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                  wasn't
                                  losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                  The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                  cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                                  coverage,
                                  none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                                  whether
                                  or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                  issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                  are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                  am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                  vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                                  mouth shut
                                  and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                  accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                  If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                  has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                                  for
                                  the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                  the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                  Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                  '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                  the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                  insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                                  guest.
                                  That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                  for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                  handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                                  well I
                                  am not covered.

                                  Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                  vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                                  why
                                  would I sue anyone?

                                  One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                  intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                                  CONTRACTEE,
                                  have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                  should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                                  invasion
                                  violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                  Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                  Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                  and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                  walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                  insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                                  any
                                  pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                  harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                  yourself anyway.


                                  Sincerely yours,
                                  Sue
                                  ________________________
                                  Sue Sarkis
                                  Sarkis Detective Agency

                                  (est. 1976)
                                  PI 6564
                                  _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                                  1346 Ethel Street
                                  Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                  818-242-2505
                                  818-242-9824 FAX

                                  "one Nation under God"

                                  If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                  a military veteran !

                                  ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                                  ***
                                  products.
                                  (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                                  (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                  **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                  products.
                                  (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                  I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                                    often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                                    to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                                    I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                                    advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                                    mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                                    a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                                    with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                                    overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                                    rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                                    thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                                    have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                                    Gladys Brierley
                                    Accurate Investigations
                                    PO BOX 872
                                    Newton County, Mississippi
                                    601-480-3181 bus
                                    601-683-2094 fax
                                    Bus License # 1499
                                    Glad4JC@...
                                    Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                    _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                    _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                    (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                    Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                    services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                    interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                    extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                    cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                    my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                    _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                    _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_ (http:
                                    //finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                    )

                                    _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                    (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                    This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                    Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                    or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                    please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                                    interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                                    In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                    administrator@... writes:




                                    Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                    > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                    > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                    > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                    > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                    > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                    > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                    > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                                    Bob,

                                    I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                    point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                    that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                    engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                    they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                    paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                    do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                    coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                    general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                                    state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                                    lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                                    many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                                    coverage.

                                    The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                    left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                    subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                    doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                    contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                    rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                                    going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                                    medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                                    unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                                    4%).

                                    I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                                    ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                                    say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                                    say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                                    these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                                    just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                                    I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                                    states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                                    all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                                    ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                                    accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                                    national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                                    state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                                    local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                                    normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                                    get paid."








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