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Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • Ricky Gurley
    ... wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn t any insurance company that pay s more then $ 75.00 Dollars
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Empire Pacific Investigative
      <epginvestigation@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the
      wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have
      been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more
      then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for
      travel time.

      I don't work in the Insurance Industry.. I work for attorneys
      normally, doing Criminal Defense Investigations; with a specialty in
      Hi-Tech Criminal Defense. I charge $150.00/Hr., and I get it. There
      are P.I.s on this list right now that do the same thing and get paid
      even more than I do.


      > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is,
      competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is
      extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office
      fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long
      with it.


      > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
      California are not more then a dozen that have several employees
      working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.

      That number may be higher than you think. I work in Columbia, MO., a
      city much smaller than Los Angeles, CA., with a smaller economy, and
      as I previously stated I make $150.00/Hr.; with not problem. I can't
      imagine there only being a few P.I.s in Los Angeles, CA. making
      $100.00/Hr. and/or more...?


      > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to
      continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there
      that are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

      Yeah.. I see this is working out well for you in Southern California,
      based on this excerpt from a post you made on the LegalInvestigation
      Group today; listed below:

      "As a side note we are looking for a regular Investigator in the west
      Los Angeles and Orange county area.....We have had poor luck with
      Investigators in the Southern Cal area and we regularly TURN DOWN
      cases as I have yet to find GOOD QUALITY Investigators in the area! I
      know they are out there and I am willing to pay for experience and
      quality. We work on contract, retainer only; have a 4 hour min and a
      24 hour cancellation policy with our client, which allows us to pay
      you quickly!!!!!"

      Good luck with finding a GOOD QUALITY Investigator in Southern
      California that is willing to work for $30.00/Hr......


      > Empire Pacific Investigative Svcs.
      > Mr. Mike Hakimi
      > P.O. Box 17002
      > Beverly Hills, CA 90209
      > PI #16166
      > WEB: www.epis.us
      > Office: info@...
      > Direct: 310.433.5332
      > Fax: 888-329-EPIS



      Rick.

      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
      "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
      "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

      MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
      OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

      Phone: (888) 571-0958
      Fax: (877) 795-9800
      Cell: (573) 529-0808

      Email
      RMRI-Inc@...

      Webpage
      http://www.rmriinc.com
    • Bob Hrodey
      ... Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I m not sure who, Mike. If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps your problem is
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
        Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
        > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
        >

        Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
        If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
        your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
        to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
        oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
        me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
        they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
        where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
        time for a 1-2 hours interview.

        Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
        counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
        the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
        for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.


        > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
        >

        Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
        "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
        insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
        argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
        equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
        _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
        etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
        happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
        you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

        Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
        and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
        investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
        going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
        always, they can form a couple of impressions:

        a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
        it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
        help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

        or

        b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

        How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
        an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
        favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
        investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
        wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
        to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
        rate."

        > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
        >

        That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
        do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

        I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
        One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
        rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
        PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
        were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
        were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
        comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
        the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
        submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
        their money.

        My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

        Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
        they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
        where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
        a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
        compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
        property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
        $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
        $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
        statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
        heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
        was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
        crap or worse in two interviews.

        Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
        time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
        insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
        conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
        somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
        as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
        knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
        ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

        I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
        back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
        Words to live by.

        >
        > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

        They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
        poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

        --

        Enjoy,

        Bob
        ________________________________________________________________
        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
      • Ricky Gurley
        ... Now Bob... According to Kirsti, all of this stuff below is inappropriate.. Or, Kirsti, since Bob posted; is this now an appropriate conversation? Anyway,
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hrodey <rth@...> wrote:

          Now Bob... According to Kirsti, all of this stuff below is
          inappropriate.. Or, Kirsti, since Bob posted; is this now an
          appropriate conversation?

          Anyway, great points, Bob. As always.

          Happy Holidays to ya.



          > Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
          > > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the
          wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have
          been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more
          then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for
          travel time.
          > >
          >
          > Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
          > If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
          > your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance
          industry
          > to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
          > oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
          > me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
          > they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
          > where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
          > time for a 1-2 hours interview.
          >
          > Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
          > counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
          > the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work
          direct
          > for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.
          >
          >
          > > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is,
          competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is
          extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office
          fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long
          with it.
          > >
          >
          > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
          > "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
          > insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
          > argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
          > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
          > _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
          > etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
          > happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
          > you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.
          >
          > Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
          > and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
          > investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
          > going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
          > always, they can form a couple of impressions:
          >
          > a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
          > it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will
          really
          > help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)
          >
          > or
          >
          > b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the
          sub.
          >
          > How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
          > an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
          > favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
          > investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
          > wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
          > to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
          > rate."
          >
          > > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
          California are not more then a dozen that have several employees
          working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
          > >
          >
          > That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you
          will
          > do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.
          >
          > I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years
          ago.
          > One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
          > rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
          > PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
          > were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
          > were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
          > comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
          > the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
          > submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
          > their money.
          >
          > My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"
          >
          > Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
          > they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
          > where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I
          had
          > a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
          > compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a
          commercial
          > property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
          > $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
          > $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
          > statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
          > heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the
          claim
          > was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
          > crap or worse in two interviews.
          >
          > Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
          > time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
          > insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
          > conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
          > somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so
          trivial
          > as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
          > knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
          > ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.
          >
          > I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
          > back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
          > Words to live by.
          >
          > >
          > > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to
          continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that
          are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.
          >
          > They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
          > poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!
          >
          > --
          >
          > Enjoy,
          >
          > Bob
          > ________________________________________________________________
          > Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
          > Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
          > Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
          > Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
          > email: inquiry@... or rth@...
          > Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
          >


          Rick.

          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
          Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
          Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
          2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
          Phone: (888) 571-0958
          Fax: (877) 795-9800
          Cell: (573) 529-0808
          Company Email: RMRI-Inc@...
          Internet Email: rmriinc@...
          "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

          RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
        • Robert Johnson
          You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in ridicolous
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
            You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
            more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
            ridicolous hyperbole.

            _____

            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



            Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
            > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
            you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
            isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
            to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
            >

            Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
            If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
            your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
            to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
            oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
            me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
            they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
            where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
            time for a 1-2 hours interview.

            Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
            counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
            the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
            for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

            > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
            and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
            sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
            WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
            >

            Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
            "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
            insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
            argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
            equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
            _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
            etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
            happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
            you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

            Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
            and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
            investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
            going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
            always, they can form a couple of impressions:

            a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
            it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
            help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

            or

            b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

            How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
            an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
            favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
            investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
            wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
            to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
            rate."

            > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
            California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
            them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
            >

            That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
            do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

            I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
            One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
            rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
            PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
            were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
            were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
            comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
            the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
            submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
            their money.

            My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

            Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
            they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
            where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
            a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
            compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
            property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
            $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
            $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
            statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
            heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
            was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
            crap or worse in two interviews.

            Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
            time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
            insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
            conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
            somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
            as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
            knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
            ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

            I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
            back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
            Words to live by.

            >
            > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
            but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
            are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

            They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
            poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

            --

            Enjoy,

            Bob
            __________________________________________________________
            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
            email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ricky Gurley
            ... Yep Robert, YOU ARE THE MAN ! The rest of us are just poor, pacer driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the Government Cheese
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Johnson" <contact@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
              > more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
              > ridicolous hyperbole.


              Yep Robert, YOU ARE "THE MAN"! The rest of us are just poor, pacer
              driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the
              Government Cheese Line on Wednesdays, and at the Salvation Army on
              Mondays, looking for Hawaiian Shirts so we can try to look like Magnum
              P.I.! We aspire to be as successful as you, Robert...

              Maybe you would like to give a webinar on success in the P.I. Business
              so we can all learn to be so successful like you?

              Rick.


              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
              Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
              Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
              2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
              Phone: (888) 571-0958
              Fax: (877) 795-9800
              Cell: (573) 529-0808
              Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
              "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

              RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
            • Jim Parker
              Well, there s a novel
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>


                Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
                you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                charge.

                Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

                :o)

                Jim



                -----Original Message-----
                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
                Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                ridicolous hyperbole.

                _____

                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                >

                Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                >

                Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                or

                b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                rate."

                > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                >

                That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                their money.

                My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                crap or worse in two interviews.

                Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                Words to live by.

                >
                > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                --

                Enjoy,

                Bob
                __________________________________________________________
                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
                <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ricky Gurley
                ... then ... LMAO! Rick. Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/ 2101 W. Broadway
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                  > They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>
                  >
                  >
                  > Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases,
                  then
                  > you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                  > charge.
                  >
                  > Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?
                  >
                  > :o)
                  >
                  > Jim

                  LMAO!


                  Rick.


                  Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                  Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                  Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                  2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                  Phone: (888) 571-0958
                  Fax: (877) 795-9800
                  Cell: (573) 529-0808
                  Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
                  "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                  RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
                • Vicki Siedow
                  Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                    Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;)



                    Vicki Siedow
                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                    & Legal Support Services
                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                    La Crescenta, CA 91214
                    Los Angeles County
                    CA PI License # 22852
                    800.448.6431 toll free
                    818.242.0130 local
                    818.688.3295 fax
                    <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                    <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                    Member NCISS, IWWA

                    Need economical legal help?
                    Concerned about Identity Theft?
                    Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Jim Parker
                    Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:38 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                    <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                    They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>

                    Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
                    you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                    charge.

                    Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

                    :o)

                    Jim

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                    On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
                    Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                    You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                    more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                    ridicolous hyperbole.

                    _____

                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                    On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                    Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                    Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                    > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                    you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                    isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                    to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                    >

                    Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                    If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                    your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                    to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                    oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                    me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                    they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                    where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                    time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                    Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                    counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                    the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                    for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                    > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                    and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                    sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                    WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                    >

                    Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                    "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                    insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                    argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                    equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                    _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                    etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                    happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                    you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                    Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                    and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                    investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                    going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                    always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                    a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                    it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                    help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                    or

                    b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                    How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                    an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                    favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                    investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                    wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                    to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                    rate."

                    > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                    California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                    them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                    >

                    That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                    do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                    I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                    One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                    rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                    PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                    were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                    were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                    comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                    the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                    submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                    their money.

                    My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                    Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                    they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                    where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                    a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                    compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                    property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                    $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                    $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                    statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                    heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                    was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                    crap or worse in two interviews.

                    Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                    time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                    insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                    conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                    somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                    as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                    knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                    ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                    I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                    back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                    Words to live by.

                    >
                    > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                    but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                    are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                    They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                    poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                    --

                    Enjoy,

                    Bob
                    __________________________________________________________
                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                    email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
                    <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                    <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                    <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Vicki Siedow
                    Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing. I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J I know
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                      Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing.
                      I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J



                      I know I'm unusually agreeable tonight, but I went to the Xmas parade, and
                      am in a good mood.



                      Vicki Siedow
                      Siedow & Associates Investigations
                      & Legal Support Services
                      2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                      La Crescenta, CA 91214
                      Los Angeles County
                      CA PI License # 22852
                      800.448.6431 toll free
                      818.242.0130 local
                      818.688.3295 fax
                      <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                      <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                      Member NCISS, IWWA

                      Need economical legal help?
                      Concerned about Identity Theft?
                      Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                      Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                      > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                      you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                      isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                      to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                      >

                      Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                      If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                      your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                      to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                      oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                      me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                      they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                      where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                      time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                      Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                      counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                      the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                      for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                      > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                      and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                      sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                      WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                      >

                      Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                      "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                      insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                      argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                      equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                      _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                      etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                      happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                      you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                      Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                      and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                      investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                      going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                      always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                      a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                      it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                      help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                      or

                      b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                      How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                      an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                      favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                      investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                      wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                      to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                      rate."

                      > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                      California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                      them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                      >

                      That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                      do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                      I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                      One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                      rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                      PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                      were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                      were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                      comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                      the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                      submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                      their money.

                      My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                      Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                      they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                      where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                      a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                      compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                      property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                      $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                      $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                      statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                      heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                      was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                      crap or worse in two interviews.

                      Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                      time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                      insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                      conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                      somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                      as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                      knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                      ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                      I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                      back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                      Words to live by.

                      >
                      > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                      but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                      are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                      They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                      poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                      --

                      Enjoy,

                      Bob
                      __________________________________________________________
                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                      email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • suesarkis@aol.com
                      Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                        Bob & Jim,

                        As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
                        precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

                        Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
                        any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
                        put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
                        not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
                        what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
                        clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
                        One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
                        suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
                        under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
                        ONLY !!!


                        Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                        Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                        (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
                        12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

                        Business Owners
                        RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
                        Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
                        Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
                        (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
                        INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


                        Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                        Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                        (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
                        Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

                        Sincerely yours,
                        Sue
                        ________________________
                        Sue Sarkis
                        Sarkis Detective Agency


                        (est. 1976)
                        PI 6564
                        _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                        1346 Ethel Street
                        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                        818-242-2505
                        818-242-9824 FAX

                        "one Nation under God"

                        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                        a military veteran !



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • dts683
                        ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                          Bob Hrodey wrote:

                          > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                          > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                          > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                          > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                          > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                          > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                          > mileage, etc. NOT you.


                          Bob,

                          I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                          point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                          that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                          engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                          they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                          paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                          do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                          coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                          general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                          state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                          lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                          many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                          coverage.

                          The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                          left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                          subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                          doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                          contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                          rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                          going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                          medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                          unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                          4%).

                          I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                          ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                          say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                          say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                          these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                          just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                          I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                          states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                          all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                          ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                          accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                          national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                          state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                          local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                          normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                          get paid."


                          Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                          Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                          P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                          Office: (815) 787-1111
                          Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                          Fax: (866) 727-2051
                          info@...
                          http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                        • Bob Hrodey
                          ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                            dts683 wrote:
                            > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                            >
                            >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                            >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                            >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                            >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                            >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                            >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                            >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > Bob,
                            >
                            > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                            > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                            > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                            > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                            > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                            > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                            > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                            > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                            >

                            IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                            You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                            taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                            those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                            insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                            Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                            > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                            > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                            > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                            > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                            > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                            >

                            Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                            contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                            the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                            insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                            for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


                            --

                            Enjoy,

                            Bob
                            ________________________________________________________________
                            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                            email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jim Parker
                            Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                              Bob said:

                              "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

                              Then said:

                              "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


                              That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

                              :o)



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                              Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                              dts683 wrote:
                              > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                              >
                              >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                              >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                              >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                              >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                              >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                              >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                              >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > Bob,
                              >
                              > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                              > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                              > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                              > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                              > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                              > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                              > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                              > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                              >

                              IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                              You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                              taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                              those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                              insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                              Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                              > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                              > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                              > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                              > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                              > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                              >

                              Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                              contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                              the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                              insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                              for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                              --

                              Enjoy,

                              Bob
                              __________________________________________________________
                              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                              email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                              <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bob Hrodey
                              ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                Jim Parker wrote:
                                > Bob said:
                                >
                                > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                                >
                                > Then said:
                                >
                                > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                                >
                                >
                                > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
                                >


                                Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

                                Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

                                OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

                                --

                                Enjoy,

                                Bob
                                ________________________________________________________________
                                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                              • dts683
                                ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                  Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                  > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                  > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                  > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                  > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                                  > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                                  Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                                  shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                                  PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                                  the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                                  claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                                  an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                                  for any claims too.

                                  > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                                  Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                                  too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                                  actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                                  understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                                  coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                                  agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                                  coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                                  personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                                  could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                                  Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                                  Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                                  P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                                  Office: (815) 787-1111
                                  Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                                  Fax: (866) 727-2051
                                  info@...
                                  http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                                • Vicki Siedow
                                  I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                                    I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                                    couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                                    comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                                    better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                                    cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                                    resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                                    have more successful outcomes, as well.



                                    I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                                    many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                                    charities can be profitable.



                                    I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                                    in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                                    Vicki Siedow
                                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                    & Legal Support Services
                                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                    La Crescenta, CA 91214
                                    Los Angeles County
                                    CA PI License # 22852
                                    800.448.6431 toll free
                                    818.242.0130 local
                                    818.688.3295 fax
                                    <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                                    <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                                    Member NCISS, IWWA

                                    Need economical legal help?
                                    Concerned about Identity Theft?
                                    Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                    Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                                    --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                    <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Louis -
                                    >
                                    > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                                    QUALITY
                                    > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                                    see such
                                    > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                                    practitioner having taken
                                    > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                                    back then.
                                    > That was more than 30 years ago.
                                    >
                                    > You get what you pay for !!!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Sincerely yours,
                                    > Sue
                                    > ________________________
                                    > Sue Sarkis
                                    > Sarkis Detective Agency

                                    Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                                    subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                                    assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                                    subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                                    they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                                    expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                                    And I still make money off of their work.

                                    I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                                    offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                                    they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                                    rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                                    reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                                    you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                                    are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                                    the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                                    only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                                    likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                                    At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                                    that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                                    to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                                    perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                                    potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                                    reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                                    sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                                    or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                                    overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                                    effect on your reputation.

                                    I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                                    saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                                    pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                                    give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                                    You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                                    to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                                    have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                                    at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                                    sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                                    him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                                    I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                                    upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                                    to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                                    the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                                    yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                                    least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                                    You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                                    then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                                    here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                                    making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                                    structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                                    acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                                    yourself.

                                    Rick.

                                    Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                                    "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                                    "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                                    MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                                    OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                                    Phone: (888) 571-0958
                                    Fax: (877) 795-9800
                                    Cell: (573) 529-0808

                                    Email
                                    RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                                    Webpage
                                    http://www.rmriinc.com





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Bob Hrodey
                                    ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                      Vicki Siedow wrote:
                                      > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                                      > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                                      That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                                      early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                                      was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                                      exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                                      Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                                      literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                                      penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                                      of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                                      happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                                      course) brings in more business.

                                      Truly strange.

                                      Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                                      with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                                      A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                                      firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                                      it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                                      for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                                      a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                                      many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                                      frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                                      day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                                      At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                                      he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                                      friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                                      was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                                      about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                                      he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                                      sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                                      said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                                      if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                                      billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                                      pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                                      fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                                      product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                                      "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                                      He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                                      if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                                      if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                                      the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                                      his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                                      effort to get a better rate.

                                      Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                                      --

                                      Enjoy,

                                      Bob
                                      ________________________________________________________________
                                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                      email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                                    • suesarkis@aol.com
                                      Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                        Folks -

                                        Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                        Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                                        losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                        The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                        cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                                        none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                                        or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                        issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                        are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                        am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                        vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                                        and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                        accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                        If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                        has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                                        the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                        the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                        Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                        '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                        the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                        insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                                        That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                        for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                        handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                                        am not covered.

                                        Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                        vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                                        would I sue anyone?

                                        One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                        intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                                        have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                        should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                                        violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                        Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                        Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                        and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                        walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                        insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                                        pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                        harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                        yourself anyway.


                                        Sincerely yours,
                                        Sue
                                        ________________________
                                        Sue Sarkis
                                        Sarkis Detective Agency

                                        (est. 1976)
                                        PI 6564
                                        _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                        1346 Ethel Street
                                        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                        818-242-2505
                                        818-242-9824 FAX

                                        "one Nation under God"

                                        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                        a military veteran !



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                                      • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                        Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                          Sue,

                                          I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                                          me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                                          going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                                          gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                                          would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                                          am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                                          insurance for that.

                                          I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                                          Gladys Brierley
                                          Accurate Investigations
                                          PO BOX 872
                                          Newton County, Mississippi
                                          601-480-3181 bus
                                          601-683-2094 fax
                                          Bus License # 1499
                                          Glad4JC@...
                                          Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                          _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                          _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                          (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                          Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                          services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                          interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                          extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                          cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                          my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                          _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                          (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                          _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_
                                          (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                          )

                                          _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                          (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                          This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                          Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                          or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                          please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
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                                          In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                          suesarkis@... writes:




                                          Folks -

                                          Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                          Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                          wasn't
                                          losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                          The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                          cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                                          coverage,
                                          none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                                          whether
                                          or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                          issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                          are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                          am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                          vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                                          mouth shut
                                          and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                          accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                          If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                          has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                                          for
                                          the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                          the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                          Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                          '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                          the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                          insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                                          guest.
                                          That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                          for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                          handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                                          well I
                                          am not covered.

                                          Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                          vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                                          why
                                          would I sue anyone?

                                          One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                          intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                                          CONTRACTEE,
                                          have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                          should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                                          invasion
                                          violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                          Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                          Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                          and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                          walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                          insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                                          any
                                          pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                          harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                          yourself anyway.


                                          Sincerely yours,
                                          Sue
                                          ________________________
                                          Sue Sarkis
                                          Sarkis Detective Agency

                                          (est. 1976)
                                          PI 6564
                                          _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                                          1346 Ethel Street
                                          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                          818-242-2505
                                          818-242-9824 FAX

                                          "one Nation under God"

                                          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                          a military veteran !

                                          ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                                          ***
                                          products.
                                          (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
                                          (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) )

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                          I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                            I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                                            often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                                            to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                                            I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                                            advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                                            mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                                            a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                                            with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                                            overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                                            rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                                            thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                                            have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                                            Gladys Brierley
                                            Accurate Investigations
                                            PO BOX 872
                                            Newton County, Mississippi
                                            601-480-3181 bus
                                            601-683-2094 fax
                                            Bus License # 1499
                                            Glad4JC@...
                                            Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                            _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                            _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                            (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                            Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                            services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                            interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                            extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                            cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                            my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                            _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
                                            _MississippiPrivateInvestigators : MISSISSIPPI PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS_ (http:
                                            //finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                            )

                                            _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                            (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                            This e-mail message is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
                                            Act, 18 U.S.C. §2510-2521 and is legally privileged. Unauthorized review, use
                                            or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error,
                                            please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized
                                            interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.


                                            In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                            administrator@... writes:




                                            Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                            > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                            > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                            > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                            > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                            > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                            > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                            > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                                            Bob,

                                            I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                            point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                            that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                            engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                            they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                            paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                            do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                            coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                            general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                                            state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                                            lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                                            many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                                            coverage.

                                            The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                            left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                            subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                            doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                            contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                            rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                                            going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                                            medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                                            unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                                            4%).

                                            I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                                            ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                                            say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                                            say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                                            these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                                            just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                                            I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                                            states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                                            all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                                            ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                                            accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                                            national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                                            state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                                            local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                                            normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                                            get paid."








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