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  • Mike Hakimi
    HELLO GROUP: WE ARE LOOKING FOR AN EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATOR IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY AND SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY AREA. PLEASE EMAIL YOUR RESUME TO RESUME@EPIS.US.
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
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      HELLO GROUP:
      WE ARE LOOKING FOR AN EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATOR IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY
      AND SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY AREA. PLEASE EMAIL YOUR RESUME TO
      RESUME@.... THE RATE IS $30.00 AN HOUR AND $0.40 PER MILE.

      As a side note we are looking for a regular Investigator in the west
      Los Angeles and Orange county area.....We have had poor luck with
      Investigators in the Southern Cal area and we regularly TURN DOWN
      cases as I have yet to find GOOD QUALITY Investigators in the area! I
      know they are out there and I am willing to pay for experience and
      quality. We work on contract, retainer only; have a 4 hour min and a
      24 hour cancellation policy with our client, which allows us to pay
      you quickly!!!!! !

      Licensed & Insured investigator's preferred. No telephone calls
      please. Send email only, we will response back to your email.

      EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES, INC.,
      P.O. BOX 17002
      BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90209
      WEB: WWW.EPIS.US,
      EMAIL: INFO@...
      DIRECT: 1-310-433-5332
      FAX: 1-888-FAX-EPIS
      CA PI # 16166, OK PI# A1588, DC PI# 0951, FL PI# A9700156
    • suesarkis@aol.com
      Louis - You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD QUALITY investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I see such
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Louis -

        You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD QUALITY
        investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I see such
        nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole practitioner having taken
        many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour back then.
        That was more than 30 years ago.

        You get what you pay for !!!


        Sincerely yours,
        Sue
        ________________________
        Sue Sarkis
        Sarkis Detective Agency



        (est. 1976)
        PI 6564
        _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

        1346 Ethel Street
        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
        818-242-2505
        818-242-9824 FAX

        "one Nation under God"

        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
        a military veteran !



        In a message dated 12/1/2007 10:24:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
        epginvestigation@... writes:

        HELLO GROUP:
        WE ARE LOOKING FOR AN EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATOR IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY
        AND SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY AREA. PLEASE EMAIL YOUR RESUME TO
        _RESUME@..._ (mailto:RESUME@...) . THE RATE IS $30.00 AN HOUR AND
        $0.40 PER MILE.

        As a side note we are looking for a regular Investigator in the west
        Los Angeles and Orange county area.....We have had poor luck with
        Investigators in the Southern Cal area and we regularly TURN DOWN
        cases as I have yet to find GOOD QUALITY Investigators in the area! I
        know they are out there and I am willing to pay for experience and
        quality. We work on contract, retainer only; have a 4 hour min and a
        24 hour cancellation policy with our client, which allows us to pay
        you quickly!!!!! !

        Licensed & Insured investigator' Insured investigator'<WBR>s pre
        please. Send email only, we will response back to your email.

        EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES, INC.,
        P.O. BOX 17002
        BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90209
        WEB: WWW.EPIS.US,
        EMAIL: _INFO@..._ (mailto:INFO@...)
        DIRECT: 1-310-433-5332
        FAX: 1-888-FAX-EPIS
        CA PI # 16166, OK PI# A1588, DC PI# 0951, FL PI# A9700156








        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
        products.
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ricky Gurley
        ... QUALITY ... see such ... practitioner having taken ... back then. ... Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have subcontracting work
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Louis -
          >
          > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
          QUALITY
          > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
          see such
          > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
          practitioner having taken
          > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
          back then.
          > That was more than 30 years ago.
          >
          > You get what you pay for !!!
          >
          >
          > Sincerely yours,
          > Sue
          > ________________________
          > Sue Sarkis
          > Sarkis Detective Agency


          Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
          subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
          assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
          subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
          they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
          expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
          And I still make money off of their work.

          I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
          offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
          they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
          rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
          reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
          you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
          are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
          the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
          only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
          likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
          At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
          that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
          to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
          perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
          potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
          reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
          sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
          or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
          overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
          effect on your reputation.

          I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
          saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
          pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
          give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
          You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
          to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
          have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
          at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
          sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
          him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

          I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
          upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
          to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
          the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
          yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
          least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

          You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
          then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
          here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
          making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
          structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
          acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
          yourself.


          Rick.


          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
          "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
          "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

          MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
          OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

          Phone: (888) 571-0958
          Fax: (877) 795-9800
          Cell: (573) 529-0808

          Email
          RMRI-Inc@...

          Webpage
          http://www.rmriinc.com
        • Empire Pacific Investigative
          Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn t any
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.

            Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.

            The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.

            Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

            Empire Pacific Investigative Svcs.
            Mr. Mike Hakimi
            P.O. Box 17002
            Beverly Hills, CA 90209
            PI #16166
            WEB: www.epis.us
            Office: info@...
            Direct: 310.433.5332
            Fax: 888-329-EPIS



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...>
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 12:21:33 PM
            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

            --- In infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com, suesarkis@.. . wrote:
            >
            >
            > Louis -
            >
            > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
            QUALITY
            > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
            see such
            > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
            practitioner having taken
            > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
            back then.
            > That was more than 30 years ago.
            >
            > You get what you pay for !!!
            >
            >
            > Sincerely yours,
            > Sue
            > ____________ _________ ___
            > Sue Sarkis
            > Sarkis Detective Agency

            Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
            subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
            assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
            subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
            they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
            expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
            And I still make money off of their work.

            I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
            offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
            they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
            rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
            reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
            you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
            are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
            the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
            only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
            likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
            At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
            that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
            to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
            perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
            potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
            reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
            sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
            or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
            overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
            effect on your reputation.

            I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
            saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
            pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
            give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
            You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
            to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
            have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
            at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
            sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
            him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

            I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
            upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
            to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
            the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
            yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
            least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

            You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
            then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
            here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
            making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
            structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
            acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
            yourself.

            Rick.

            Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
            "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
            "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

            MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
            OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

            Phone: (888) 571-0958
            Fax: (877) 795-9800
            Cell: (573) 529-0808

            Email
            RMRI-Inc@mchsi. com

            Webpage
            http://www.rmriinc com




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ricky Gurley
            ... wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn t any insurance company that pay s more then $ 75.00 Dollars
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Empire Pacific Investigative
              <epginvestigation@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the
              wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have
              been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more
              then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for
              travel time.

              I don't work in the Insurance Industry.. I work for attorneys
              normally, doing Criminal Defense Investigations; with a specialty in
              Hi-Tech Criminal Defense. I charge $150.00/Hr., and I get it. There
              are P.I.s on this list right now that do the same thing and get paid
              even more than I do.


              > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is,
              competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is
              extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office
              fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long
              with it.


              > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
              California are not more then a dozen that have several employees
              working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.

              That number may be higher than you think. I work in Columbia, MO., a
              city much smaller than Los Angeles, CA., with a smaller economy, and
              as I previously stated I make $150.00/Hr.; with not problem. I can't
              imagine there only being a few P.I.s in Los Angeles, CA. making
              $100.00/Hr. and/or more...?


              > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to
              continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there
              that are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

              Yeah.. I see this is working out well for you in Southern California,
              based on this excerpt from a post you made on the LegalInvestigation
              Group today; listed below:

              "As a side note we are looking for a regular Investigator in the west
              Los Angeles and Orange county area.....We have had poor luck with
              Investigators in the Southern Cal area and we regularly TURN DOWN
              cases as I have yet to find GOOD QUALITY Investigators in the area! I
              know they are out there and I am willing to pay for experience and
              quality. We work on contract, retainer only; have a 4 hour min and a
              24 hour cancellation policy with our client, which allows us to pay
              you quickly!!!!!"

              Good luck with finding a GOOD QUALITY Investigator in Southern
              California that is willing to work for $30.00/Hr......


              > Empire Pacific Investigative Svcs.
              > Mr. Mike Hakimi
              > P.O. Box 17002
              > Beverly Hills, CA 90209
              > PI #16166
              > WEB: www.epis.us
              > Office: info@...
              > Direct: 310.433.5332
              > Fax: 888-329-EPIS



              Rick.

              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
              "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
              "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

              MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
              OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

              Phone: (888) 571-0958
              Fax: (877) 795-9800
              Cell: (573) 529-0808

              Email
              RMRI-Inc@...

              Webpage
              http://www.rmriinc.com
            • Bob Hrodey
              ... Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I m not sure who, Mike. If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps your problem is
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                >

                Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.


                > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                >

                Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                or

                b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                rate."

                > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                >

                That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                their money.

                My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                crap or worse in two interviews.

                Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                Words to live by.

                >
                > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                --

                Enjoy,

                Bob
                ________________________________________________________________
                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
              • Ricky Gurley
                ... Now Bob... According to Kirsti, all of this stuff below is inappropriate.. Or, Kirsti, since Bob posted; is this now an appropriate conversation? Anyway,
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hrodey <rth@...> wrote:

                  Now Bob... According to Kirsti, all of this stuff below is
                  inappropriate.. Or, Kirsti, since Bob posted; is this now an
                  appropriate conversation?

                  Anyway, great points, Bob. As always.

                  Happy Holidays to ya.



                  > Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                  > > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the
                  wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have
                  been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more
                  then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for
                  travel time.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                  > If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                  > your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance
                  industry
                  > to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                  > oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                  > me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                  > they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                  > where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                  > time for a 1-2 hours interview.
                  >
                  > Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                  > counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                  > the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work
                  direct
                  > for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.
                  >
                  >
                  > > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is,
                  competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is
                  extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office
                  fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long
                  with it.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                  > "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                  > insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                  > argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                  > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                  > _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                  > etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                  > happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                  > you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.
                  >
                  > Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                  > and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                  > investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                  > going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                  > always, they can form a couple of impressions:
                  >
                  > a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                  > it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will
                  really
                  > help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)
                  >
                  > or
                  >
                  > b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the
                  sub.
                  >
                  > How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                  > an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                  > favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                  > investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                  > wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                  > to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                  > rate."
                  >
                  > > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                  California are not more then a dozen that have several employees
                  working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                  > >
                  >
                  > That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you
                  will
                  > do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.
                  >
                  > I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years
                  ago.
                  > One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                  > rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                  > PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                  > were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                  > were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                  > comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                  > the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                  > submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                  > their money.
                  >
                  > My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"
                  >
                  > Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                  > they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                  > where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I
                  had
                  > a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                  > compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a
                  commercial
                  > property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                  > $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                  > $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                  > statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                  > heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the
                  claim
                  > was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                  > crap or worse in two interviews.
                  >
                  > Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                  > time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                  > insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                  > conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                  > somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so
                  trivial
                  > as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                  > knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                  > ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.
                  >
                  > I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                  > back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                  > Words to live by.
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to
                  continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that
                  are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.
                  >
                  > They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                  > poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > Enjoy,
                  >
                  > Bob
                  > ________________________________________________________________
                  > Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  > Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  > Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  > Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  > email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  > Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                  >


                  Rick.

                  Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                  Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                  Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                  2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                  Phone: (888) 571-0958
                  Fax: (877) 795-9800
                  Cell: (573) 529-0808
                  Company Email: RMRI-Inc@...
                  Internet Email: rmriinc@...
                  "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                  RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
                • Robert Johnson
                  You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in ridicolous
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                    more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                    ridicolous hyperbole.

                    _____

                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                    Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                    Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                    > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                    you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                    isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                    to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                    >

                    Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                    If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                    your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                    to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                    oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                    me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                    they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                    where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                    time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                    Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                    counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                    the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                    for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                    > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                    and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                    sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                    WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                    >

                    Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                    "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                    insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                    argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                    equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                    _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                    etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                    happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                    you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                    Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                    and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                    investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                    going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                    always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                    a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                    it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                    help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                    or

                    b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                    How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                    an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                    favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                    investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                    wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                    to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                    rate."

                    > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                    California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                    them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                    >

                    That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                    do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                    I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                    One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                    rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                    PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                    were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                    were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                    comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                    the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                    submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                    their money.

                    My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                    Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                    they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                    where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                    a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                    compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                    property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                    $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                    $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                    statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                    heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                    was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                    crap or worse in two interviews.

                    Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                    time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                    insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                    conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                    somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                    as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                    knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                    ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                    I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                    back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                    Words to live by.

                    >
                    > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                    but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                    are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                    They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                    poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                    --

                    Enjoy,

                    Bob
                    __________________________________________________________
                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                    email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
                    <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ricky Gurley
                    ... Yep Robert, YOU ARE THE MAN ! The rest of us are just poor, pacer driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the Government Cheese
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Johnson" <contact@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                      > more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                      > ridicolous hyperbole.


                      Yep Robert, YOU ARE "THE MAN"! The rest of us are just poor, pacer
                      driving, studio apartment dwelling, P.I.s that you can find in the
                      Government Cheese Line on Wednesdays, and at the Salvation Army on
                      Mondays, looking for Hawaiian Shirts so we can try to look like Magnum
                      P.I.! We aspire to be as successful as you, Robert...

                      Maybe you would like to give a webinar on success in the P.I. Business
                      so we can all learn to be so successful like you?

                      Rick.


                      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                      Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                      Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                      2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                      Phone: (888) 571-0958
                      Fax: (877) 795-9800
                      Cell: (573) 529-0808
                      Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
                      "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                      RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
                    • Jim Parker
                      Well, there s a novel
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                        They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>


                        Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
                        you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                        charge.

                        Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

                        :o)

                        Jim



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
                        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                        You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                        more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                        ridicolous hyperbole.

                        _____

                        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                        [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                        On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                        Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                        Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                        > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                        you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                        isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                        to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                        >

                        Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                        If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                        your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                        to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                        oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                        me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                        they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                        where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                        time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                        Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                        counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                        the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                        for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                        > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                        and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                        sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                        WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                        >

                        Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                        "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                        insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                        argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                        equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                        _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                        etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                        happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                        you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                        Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                        and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                        investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                        going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                        always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                        a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                        it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                        help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                        or

                        b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                        How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                        an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                        favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                        investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                        wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                        to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                        rate."

                        > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                        California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                        them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                        >

                        That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                        do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                        I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                        One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                        rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                        PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                        were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                        were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                        comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                        the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                        submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                        their money.

                        My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                        Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                        they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                        where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                        a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                        compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                        property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                        $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                        $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                        statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                        heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                        was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                        crap or worse in two interviews.

                        Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                        time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                        insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                        conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                        somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                        as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                        knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                        ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                        I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                        back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                        Words to live by.

                        >
                        > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                        but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                        are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                        They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                        poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        __________________________________________________________
                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
                        <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                        <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ricky Gurley
                        ... then ... LMAO! Rick. Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc. Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/ 2101 W. Broadway
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Parker" <Jim@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                          > They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases,
                          then
                          > you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                          > charge.
                          >
                          > Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?
                          >
                          > :o)
                          >
                          > Jim

                          LMAO!


                          Rick.


                          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                          Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                          Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                          2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                          Phone: (888) 571-0958
                          Fax: (877) 795-9800
                          Cell: (573) 529-0808
                          Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email: rmriinc@...
                          "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                          RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal: http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms
                        • Vicki Siedow
                          Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;) Vicki Siedow Siedow & Associates Investigations & Legal Support Services 2629 Foothill Blvd. #262 La
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Parker, sometimes I want to kiss you, kilt or no. ;)



                            Vicki Siedow
                            Siedow & Associates Investigations
                            & Legal Support Services
                            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                            La Crescenta, CA 91214
                            Los Angeles County
                            CA PI License # 22852
                            800.448.6431 toll free
                            818.242.0130 local
                            818.688.3295 fax
                            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                            Member NCISS, IWWA

                            Need economical legal help?
                            Concerned about Identity Theft?
                            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Jim Parker
                            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:38 PM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                            <<<< I suspect my cients have many more cases than you ever dreamed of.
                            They work cases not get involved in ridicolous hyperbole. >>>

                            Well, there's a novel idea. Have your clients work their own cases, then
                            you don't have to concern yourself with silly details about how much to
                            charge.

                            Ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

                            :o)

                            Jim

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                            On Behalf Of Robert Johnson
                            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:49 PM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                            You people spend way too much time online. I suspect my cients have many
                            more cases than you ever dreamed of. They work cases not get involved in
                            ridicolous hyperbole.

                            _____

                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                            On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:08 PM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                            Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                            > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                            you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                            isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                            to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                            >

                            Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                            If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                            your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                            to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                            oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                            me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                            they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                            where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                            time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                            Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                            counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                            the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                            for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                            > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                            and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                            sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                            WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                            >

                            Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                            "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                            insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                            argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                            equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                            _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                            etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                            happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                            you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                            Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                            and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                            investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                            going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                            always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                            a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                            it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                            help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                            or

                            b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                            How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                            an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                            favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                            investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                            wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                            to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                            rate."

                            > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                            California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                            them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                            >

                            That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                            do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                            I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                            One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                            rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                            PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                            were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                            were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                            comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                            the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                            submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                            their money.

                            My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                            Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                            they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                            where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                            a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                            compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                            property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                            $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                            $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                            statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                            heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                            was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                            crap or worse in two interviews.

                            Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                            time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                            insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                            conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                            somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                            as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                            knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                            ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                            I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                            back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                            Words to live by.

                            >
                            > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                            but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                            are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                            They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                            poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                            --

                            Enjoy,

                            Bob
                            __________________________________________________________
                            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                            email: inquiry@hrodey. <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> com or rth@...
                            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                            <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Vicki Siedow
                            Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing. I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J I know
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 1, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bob, I love you. You are my soul mate. You also save me a lot of typing.
                              I have to say that I completely agree with you, and worship you from afar. J



                              I know I'm unusually agreeable tonight, but I went to the Xmas parade, and
                              am in a good mood.



                              Vicki Siedow
                              Siedow & Associates Investigations
                              & Legal Support Services
                              2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                              La Crescenta, CA 91214
                              Los Angeles County
                              CA PI License # 22852
                              800.448.6431 toll free
                              818.242.0130 local
                              818.688.3295 fax
                              <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                              <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                              Member NCISS, IWWA

                              Need economical legal help?
                              Concerned about Identity Theft?
                              Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                              Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:08 PM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                              Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
                              > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the wonderland. If
                              you work with the insurance industry, which I have been since 1987, there
                              isn't any insurance company that pay's more then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and
                              to top it off, they don't pay for travel time.
                              >

                              Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
                              If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
                              your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance industry
                              to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
                              oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
                              me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
                              they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
                              where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
                              time for a 1-2 hours interview.

                              Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
                              counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
                              the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work direct
                              for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.

                              > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is, competion
                              and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is extremly low when you
                              sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office fees, marketing, employees,
                              WC insurance and other fees going a long with it.
                              >

                              Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
                              "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
                              insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
                              argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                              equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                              _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
                              etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
                              happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
                              you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.

                              Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
                              and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
                              investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
                              going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
                              always, they can form a couple of impressions:

                              a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
                              it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will really
                              help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)

                              or

                              b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the sub.

                              How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
                              an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
                              favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
                              investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
                              wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
                              to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
                              rate."

                              > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
                              California are not more then a dozen that have several employees working for
                              them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
                              >

                              That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you will
                              do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.

                              I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years ago.
                              One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
                              rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
                              PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
                              were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
                              were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
                              comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
                              the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
                              submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
                              their money.

                              My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"

                              Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
                              they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
                              where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I had
                              a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
                              compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a commercial
                              property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
                              $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
                              $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
                              statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
                              heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the claim
                              was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
                              crap or worse in two interviews.

                              Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
                              time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
                              insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
                              conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
                              somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so trivial
                              as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
                              knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
                              ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.

                              I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
                              back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
                              Words to live by.

                              >
                              > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to continue,
                              but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that are great and
                              are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.

                              They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
                              poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!

                              --

                              Enjoy,

                              Bob
                              __________________________________________________________
                              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                              email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                              <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • suesarkis@aol.com
                              Bob & Jim, As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Bob & Jim,

                                As Vicki said, thank you for saving me all the time from having to type
                                precisely what you both said. However, I will add one additional suggestion.

                                Mike, since you are so busy coupled with being unable or unwilling to pay
                                any more than $30/hour, I strongly urge you to get a staff of investigators and
                                put them on payroll. You have a lawful branch office in Los Angeles so why
                                not use it for its intended purpose? Could it be that you don't really know
                                what a branch manager is supposed to do? Does the word "manager" give you a
                                clue? By the way, please quit using that unlawful Beverly Hills address.
                                One of these days your sponsor in NV might find that his license is revoked or
                                suspended for your willful violations of the law. Louis's branch license
                                under which you are permitted to work is authorized for City of Los Angeles
                                ONLY !!!


                                Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                                Investigator License Number: 16166 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                                (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: March 31, 2009 Issue Date: March
                                12, 1993 City: HENDERSON County: OUT OF STATE Actions: No

                                Business Owners
                                RODRIGUEZ LOUIS CURTIS JR
                                Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
                                Number Name Type Status Actions _5251_
                                (http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=5251&P_LTE_ID=652) EMPIRE PACIFIC
                                INVESTIGATIVE SVCS Private Investigator - Branch CLEAR No


                                Licensee Name: EMPIRE PACIFIC INVESTIGATIVE SVCS License Type: Private
                                Investigator - Branch License Number: 5251 License Status: CLEAR _Definition_
                                (javascript:windowOpener1(4491)) Expiration Date: September 30, 2009 Issue
                                Date: September 30, 2003 City: LOS ANGELES County: LOS ANGELES Actions: No

                                Sincerely yours,
                                Sue
                                ________________________
                                Sue Sarkis
                                Sarkis Detective Agency


                                (est. 1976)
                                PI 6564
                                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                1346 Ethel Street
                                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                818-242-2505
                                818-242-9824 FAX

                                "one Nation under God"

                                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                a military veteran !



                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                products.
                                (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • dts683
                                ... Bob, I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you that most PIs do
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                  > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                  > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                  > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                  > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                  > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                  > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                  > mileage, etc. NOT you.


                                  Bob,

                                  I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                  point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                  that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                  engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                  they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                  paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                  do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                  coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                  general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                                  state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                                  lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                                  many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                                  coverage.

                                  The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                  left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                  subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                  doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                  contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                  rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                                  going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                                  medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                                  unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                                  4%).

                                  I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                                  ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                                  say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                                  say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                                  these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                                  just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                                  I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                                  states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                                  all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                                  ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                                  accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                                  national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                                  state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                                  local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                                  normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                                  get paid."


                                  Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                                  Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                                  P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                                  Office: (815) 787-1111
                                  Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                                  Fax: (866) 727-2051
                                  info@...
                                  http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                                • Bob Hrodey
                                  ... IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no? You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when taken in the context of my statement
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    dts683 wrote:
                                    > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                    >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                    >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                    >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                    >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                    >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                    >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Bob,
                                    >
                                    > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                    > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                    > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                    > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                    > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                    > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                    > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                    > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                    >

                                    IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                                    You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                                    taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                                    those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                                    insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                                    > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                    > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                    > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                    > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                    > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                    >

                                    Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                    contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                    the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                    insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                    for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.


                                    --

                                    Enjoy,

                                    Bob
                                    ________________________________________________________________
                                    Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                    Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                    Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                    Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                    email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                                    Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jim Parker
                                    Bob said: Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those contractors who don t have WC themselves, well, they better hope that the guy
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Bob said:

                                      "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."

                                      Then said:

                                      "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."


                                      That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?

                                      :o)



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of Bob Hrodey
                                      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:56 PM
                                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA

                                      dts683 wrote:
                                      > Bob Hrodey wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                      >> for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                      >> licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                      >> your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                      >> equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                      >> I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                      >> mileage, etc. NOT you.
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Bob,
                                      >
                                      > I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                      > point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                      > that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                      > engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                      > they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                      > paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                      > do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                      > coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                      >

                                      IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                                      You point is well taken, just as it is, as you say, a minor point when
                                      taken in the context of my statement above, i.e. I was referring to
                                      those contractors who are looking to have their subs fully licensed and
                                      insured. If that's the case, my argument stands.

                                      Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                                      > The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                      > left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                      > subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                      > doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                      > contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                      >

                                      Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                      contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                      the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                      insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                      for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                                      --

                                      Enjoy,

                                      Bob
                                      __________________________________________________________
                                      Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                      Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                      Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                      Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                      email: inquiry@... <mailto:inquiry%40hrodey.com> or rth@...
                                      <mailto:rth%40hrodey.com>
                                      Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bob Hrodey
                                      ... Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste. Think I got it now! IF only I can remember. OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Jim Parker wrote:
                                        > Bob said:
                                        >
                                        > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                        > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                        > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                        > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                        > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                                        >
                                        > Then said:
                                        >
                                        > "Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                        > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                        > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                        > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the hook
                                        > for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor."
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > That Alzheimer's is a bitch, eh?
                                        >


                                        Hmmm Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V is Copy & Paste, Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V is Cut & Paste.

                                        Think I got it now! IF only I can remember.

                                        OTOH, I can hide my own Easter Eggs and make new friends every day.

                                        --

                                        Enjoy,

                                        Bob
                                        ________________________________________________________________
                                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                                      • dts683
                                        ... Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted PI get killed
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                          > Your argument is also valid in some cases and with regard to those
                                          > contractors who don't have WC themselves, well, they better hope that
                                          > the guy they hire at $30 an hour is playing heads up ball since
                                          > insurance or no, they will likely find that they are still on the
                                          > hook for injuries incurred by their uninsured sub contractor.

                                          Exactly. Unfortunately, the scenario I believe will cause the biggest
                                          shockwave in the PI subcontracting world requires that a subcontracted
                                          PI get killed or sustain great bodily harm when the contractor is on
                                          the hook for the uninsured subcontractor's workers' compensation
                                          claim. If I as a contractor am on the hook for paying the premium on
                                          an uninsured subcontractor, it would follow that I would be on the hook
                                          for any claims too.

                                          > IIRC, my firm was one of the ones that did, no?

                                          Yes, you were one of the two; and you probably know who the other is
                                          too. During my audit I found at least three Illinois PI agencies with
                                          actual employees who have no workers' compensation coverage. I can
                                          understand a sole practitioner not having workers' compensation
                                          coverage, but not an agency with actual employees. If you have an
                                          agency with actual employees and you don't have workers' compensation
                                          coverage, you are gambling with not only your business, but your
                                          personal financial well-being. A seriously injured or dead employee
                                          could easily bankrupt not only your business, but you personally.


                                          Daniel Schroeder, Licensed Private Detective
                                          Metro Detective Agency, LLC
                                          P.O. Box 1050, DeKalb, IL 60115
                                          Office: (815) 787-1111
                                          Cellular: (815) 757-8940
                                          Fax: (866) 727-2051
                                          info@...
                                          http://www.metrodetectiveagency.com
                                        • Vicki Siedow
                                          I agree with Sue and Rick, although I m not quite as pricey as Rick. Still, I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last couple
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I agree with Sue and Rick, although I'm not quite as pricey as Rick. Still,
                                            I pay my subs well. I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                                            couple of years, and each time business has increased. I can now live more
                                            comfortably, and with a lot less stress, in part because I can now afford a
                                            better quality of subs. My clients are happier with the work, and in many
                                            cases their overall cost is the same or less, because I now have the
                                            resources to complete assignments more quickly and with greater accuracy. I
                                            have more successful outcomes, as well.



                                            I just wanted to add to Rick's comment about charitable institutions that
                                            many who run those institutions make very substantial salaries. Even
                                            charities can be profitable.



                                            I see in a later post that Mike says this is insurance work. He is correct
                                            in that insurance work generally pays less. They are always price shopping.



                                            Vicki Siedow
                                            Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                            & Legal Support Services
                                            2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                            La Crescenta, CA 91214
                                            Los Angeles County
                                            CA PI License # 22852
                                            800.448.6431 toll free
                                            818.242.0130 local
                                            818.688.3295 fax
                                            <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                                            <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                                            Member NCISS, IWWA

                                            Need economical legal help?
                                            Concerned about Identity Theft?
                                            Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                            On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
                                            Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:22 PM
                                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Los Angeles, CA



                                            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , suesarkis@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Louis -
                                            >
                                            > You cannot have it both ways. You cannot want to locate GOOD
                                            QUALITY
                                            > investigators when you are only offering $30/hour. I laugh when I
                                            see such
                                            > nonsense. When I first opened my doors in 1976 as a sole
                                            practitioner having taken
                                            > many years to accumulate my required hours, I charged $35 per hour
                                            back then.
                                            > That was more than 30 years ago.
                                            >
                                            > You get what you pay for !!!
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sincerely yours,
                                            > Sue
                                            > ________________________
                                            > Sue Sarkis
                                            > Sarkis Detective Agency

                                            Sue is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! I pay every investigator that I have
                                            subcontracting work from me at least $100.00/HR.; when I am able to
                                            assign work to them. In my honest opinion, the hourly fee for a P.I.
                                            subcontracting work should not be below $100.00/HR., and as long as
                                            they don't try to "take advantage", they also have all reasonable
                                            expenses paid. I also give them a retainer to start the work with.
                                            And I still make money off of their work.

                                            I am not trying to be offensive here, but when I see other P.I.s
                                            offering $30.00/HR., and $50.00/HR., I wonder just how business savvy
                                            they are? It does sound "business savvy" to reduce the subcontractor
                                            rates and increase your profit margin on the surface; but if your
                                            reduced rates are going to net you results that are poor in quality,
                                            you are doing more damage to your company in the long run, and you
                                            are setting yourself up to immediately lose a client. When you reduce
                                            the rates that you are willing to pay subcontractors down to where
                                            only desperate people will accept your offer, you are more than
                                            likely not getting a subcontractor that will do quality work for you.
                                            At the point that you have actually subcontracted a job to someone
                                            that is willing to work for $30.00/HR., you have opened yourself up
                                            to the possibility of having to have the work done over again,
                                            perhaps having the case damaged beyond repair, client loss, a
                                            potential law suit, and the possibility of damaging your company's
                                            reputation. A profit of 85% is not such a good thing when you get
                                            sued for three times the amount of money you made on the entire case,
                                            or more. Nor are high profits a good thing if they affect your
                                            overall industry reputation and cause you to lose work due to this
                                            effect on your reputation.

                                            I am not saying that you can't get a "dud" for $100.00/HR., what I AM
                                            saying is when you pay a reasonable fee, you broaden your applicant
                                            pool, thereby giving you more subcontractors to choose from, and you
                                            give yourself a wider selection of quality investigators by doing so.
                                            You will probably have to deal with the occasional P.I. that may try
                                            to take advantage of your "generous nature", but you will probably
                                            have LESS problems with this than you would if you continue to hire
                                            at $30.00/HR.; because a quality, professional P.I. is going to make
                                            sure that you fully understand the cost when you subcontract work to
                                            him or her, and they won't deviate from the original agreement.

                                            I guess one of the things you may want to consider in doing this is
                                            upping your fee? I suppose it is possible that you might not be able
                                            to afford much more than $30.00/HR. to a subcontractor? If that is
                                            the case, your position is understandable, however you are doing
                                            yourself a disservice if this IS the case. You should be charging at
                                            least (the very minimum) $125.00/HR when you take a case.

                                            You do get what you pay for. If you expect to get quality results,
                                            then you have to pay for quality people. Let's not deceive ourselves
                                            here; we are ALL in business to make money. There is no shame in
                                            making money in business. If we wanted to be a charity, we would have
                                            structured our companies to be charitable organizations. You have to
                                            acknowledge this principle for your subcontractors, as well as for
                                            yourself.

                                            Rick.

                                            Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                                            "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
                                            "You'll Find No White Flags Here"

                                            MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                                            OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                                            Phone: (888) 571-0958
                                            Fax: (877) 795-9800
                                            Cell: (573) 529-0808

                                            Email
                                            RMRI-Inc@... <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com>

                                            Webpage
                                            http://www.rmriinc.com





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Bob Hrodey
                                            ... That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I was first
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Vicki Siedow wrote:
                                              > I have raised my prices a couple of times in the last
                                              > couple of years, and each time business has increased.

                                              That is one of the true mysteries of this business that I learned quite
                                              early on. Like anyone else I was hesitant to bump my prices up when I
                                              was first getting started. I did so reluctantly, fully expecting an
                                              exodus - mass or otherwise - to occur. Business actually increased.
                                              Figured it was a fluke and bumped the rate by 20% the next time
                                              literally hoping to drive away some of the marginal clients who were
                                              penny pinchers and always seemed to expect 8 hours of work for 5 hours
                                              of pay. Didn't happen then either and so far as I can tell has never
                                              happened in my experience. Higher hourly rate (within reason, of
                                              course) brings in more business.

                                              Truly strange.

                                              Another brief story in re: low pay to subs that might strike a nerve
                                              with some others here but, nonetheless, it's something to think about.

                                              A long while back and for quite some time there were two investigative
                                              firms in my area. Me and the other guy. The other guy had been doing
                                              it for about 5-7 years before I started out. Like me, he also worked
                                              for the sheriff's police and was doing it (back then) part-time. He had
                                              a good load of clients as did I. He was getting time starved (I'm sure
                                              many of you have that problem from time to time, if not more
                                              frequently. It's where you have enough work to keep you busy 20 hours a
                                              day but you don't want to work that much... or have to.)

                                              At this point he asked me if I could give him a hand with some cases as
                                              he was severely overloaded. I didn't have a lot of time but he was a
                                              friend and I said I'd help him out if I could. He asked me how much I
                                              was charging. At that time, about 22 years ago, I think I was getting
                                              about $35-$40 hour. He said that he couldn't possibly pay that much as
                                              he was only billing $22/hr. I told him that there was no way that I'd
                                              sub for him for anything less than $32. He bitched and moaned and then
                                              said he'd pay me $30 and no more. I told him that I wouldn't do it even
                                              if he paid me $40/hr. He asked why not. My response was that if he's
                                              billing $22 and paying me $30, $32 or, even $40 an hour, he'd have to
                                              pad the bill to make any money since he refused to raise his rates for
                                              fear of losing clients. That meant that no matter how great my work
                                              product was, HIS clients would be looking at the reports and thinking
                                              "Nice work but why the hell did it take Hrodey 4 hours to do a 1½hr job.

                                              He simply could not believe (perhaps, RECOGNIZE is the better word) that
                                              if he doubled his price from $22. to, say, $40 or $45 an hour, that even
                                              if he lost 50% of his clients, he'd still make the same money in half
                                              the time. Knowing what I was charging should have also told him that
                                              his erstwhile clients (if any) weren't going to rush to my door in an
                                              effort to get a better rate.

                                              Realize your worth and work to live - don't live to work!


                                              --

                                              Enjoy,

                                              Bob
                                              ________________________________________________________________
                                              Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                                              Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                                              Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                                              Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                                              email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                                              Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                                            • suesarkis@aol.com
                                              Folks - Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be. Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Folks -

                                                Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                                Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I wasn't
                                                losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                                The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                                cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability coverage,
                                                none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now, whether
                                                or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                                issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                                are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                                am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                                vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my mouth shut
                                                and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                                accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                                If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                                has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage for
                                                the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                                the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                                Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                                '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                                the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                                insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my guest.
                                                That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                                for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                                handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full well I
                                                am not covered.

                                                Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                                vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and why
                                                would I sue anyone?

                                                One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                                intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the CONTRACTEE,
                                                have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                                should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other invasion
                                                violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                                Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                                Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                                and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                                walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                                insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have any
                                                pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                                harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                                yourself anyway.


                                                Sincerely yours,
                                                Sue
                                                ________________________
                                                Sue Sarkis
                                                Sarkis Detective Agency

                                                (est. 1976)
                                                PI 6564
                                                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                                                1346 Ethel Street
                                                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                                818-242-2505
                                                818-242-9824 FAX

                                                "one Nation under God"

                                                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                                a military veteran !



                                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                products.
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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                                Sue, I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Sue,

                                                  I am reading backwards so I am playing catch up. But that sounds right to
                                                  me, so if you can tip me off who will hire an uninsured person. I am probably
                                                  going to get E & O with liability by year end, but in the mean time, I would
                                                  gladly take work from insurance cos who would hire me, I didn't think any
                                                  would so I never inquired. Obviously I would rather have it, and I agree, if I
                                                  am in my car and some accident occurs it is business as usual, I pay for car
                                                  insurance for that.

                                                  I will read back and see what is going on in the conversation.


                                                  Gladys Brierley
                                                  Accurate Investigations
                                                  PO BOX 872
                                                  Newton County, Mississippi
                                                  601-480-3181 bus
                                                  601-683-2094 fax
                                                  Bus License # 1499
                                                  Glad4JC@...
                                                  Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                                  _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                                  _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                                  Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                                  services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                                  interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                                  extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                                  cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
                                                  my very best efforts and safeguard client confidentiality.

                                                  _PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS : PARENTS AGAINST PREDATORS_
                                                  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PARENTS-AGAINST-PREDATORS/?yguid=206815254)
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                                                  (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MississippiPrivateInvestigators/?yguid=8099974
                                                  )

                                                  _Find me on MySpace and be my friend!_
                                                  (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


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                                                  In a message dated 12/2/2007 5:39:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                  suesarkis@... writes:




                                                  Folks -

                                                  Let me give you my understanding of insurance the way I believe it to be.
                                                  Having just gotten off the telephone with an attorney to make certain I
                                                  wasn't
                                                  losing my mind, I feel confident.

                                                  The majority of subbed cases go to sole-proprietors. Sole proprietors
                                                  cannot get W/C insurance. Even if they have E&O as well as liability
                                                  coverage,
                                                  none of those policies will cover him/her if injured on the job. Now,
                                                  whether
                                                  or not you the CONTRACTOR will be responsible versus the CONTRACTEE has many
                                                  issues to consider including direct/indirect control, who demands what hours
                                                  are worked, who supplies the equipment, etc., etc., etc. Bottom line, if I
                                                  am a contractee working for you the contractor and I get injured in a
                                                  vehicular accident while conducting a surveillance, I better just keep my
                                                  mouth shut
                                                  and contact my motor vehicle ins. carrier just as I would in any other
                                                  accident. Same holds true for all other issues.

                                                  If, on the other hand, you subcontract to a company whereby the contractee
                                                  has employees, just by the definition of the beast, he/she has W/C coverage
                                                  for
                                                  the employees. If not, they are not employees and they are all violating
                                                  the law in any of the states that require licensure.

                                                  Upon the advice of numerous counsel, I have been bare since the mid to late
                                                  '80's. Long story about a 10 mil lawsuit but when all was said and done and
                                                  the jury awarded me a "special verdict" my attorney advised I drop all
                                                  insurance. If you don't want to use my services because of same, be my
                                                  guest.
                                                  That leaves that much more of me for my other clients. However, don't think
                                                  for one second that you cannot get insurance work without coverage as I am
                                                  handling 2 different insurance cases right now and both carriers know full
                                                  well I
                                                  am not covered.

                                                  Unless one of the insurance agents come and push me in front of a moving
                                                  vehicle, anything that happens to me is brought about by my own actions and
                                                  why
                                                  would I sue anyone?

                                                  One other issue to cover is the fact that NO insurance policy will cover
                                                  intentional illegal acts. So, if you think that just because I, the
                                                  CONTRACTEE,
                                                  have E&O or Liability coverage that you, the CONTRACTOR, are protected
                                                  should I unlawfully obtain bank account information or commit some other
                                                  invasion
                                                  violation or any other unscrupulous act, I still have that bridge for sale.
                                                  Sorry, it will fall right back in your lap since you hired me.

                                                  Insurance coverage is NOT what it is cracked up to be. Keep your nose clean
                                                  and perform your assignment to the very best of your ability and you will
                                                  walk away a winner. Trust me, when that frivolous lawsuit is filed and your
                                                  insurance company wants to make a "nuisance settlement offer" if you have
                                                  any
                                                  pride whatsoever as well as concern for your license, you will "hold them
                                                  harmless" and tell them to take a hike. You will wind up handling the case
                                                  yourself anyway.


                                                  Sincerely yours,
                                                  Sue
                                                  ________________________
                                                  Sue Sarkis
                                                  Sarkis Detective Agency

                                                  (est. 1976)
                                                  PI 6564
                                                  _www.sarkispi._www.s_http://www.sarkispihttp:_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/) )

                                                  1346 Ethel Street
                                                  Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                                                  818-242-2505
                                                  818-242-9824 FAX

                                                  "one Nation under God"

                                                  If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                                                  a military veteran !

                                                  ******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*********<WBR>***
                                                  ***
                                                  products.
                                                  (_http://money.http://money.<WBhttp://money.http://monhttp://money.<WBhttp_
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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Glad4JC@aol.com
                                                  I don t see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long to
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Dec 2, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I don't see many of those being offered in Mississippi, but when I do I
                                                    often wonder how they think anyone can afford to work so cheap and wait so long
                                                    to get paid and still have a long resume and insurance, lol.

                                                    I am not sure I like the idea of people from all over the country
                                                    advertising here in my state and then trying to get me to do the work cheaply. I don't
                                                    mind if its a good working relationship with a person who is trying to build
                                                    a legitimate nation wide or several states business, I have someone I work
                                                    with like that and it is ok. But it does seem to be a little misleading to
                                                    overreach into states with big $ advertising and then offer the situation at
                                                    rock bottom prices to eager newbies, like me. I guess I am doing the right
                                                    thing by saying NO to any company that wants me to do work for so little and
                                                    have all their requirements and get paid in 30 days. I feel better already, lol.

                                                    Gladys Brierley
                                                    Accurate Investigations
                                                    PO BOX 872
                                                    Newton County, Mississippi
                                                    601-480-3181 bus
                                                    601-683-2094 fax
                                                    Bus License # 1499
                                                    Glad4JC@...
                                                    Member NAIS, ACI, IA
                                                    _www.freewebs.com/glad4jc_ (http://www.freewebs.com/glad4jc)
                                                    _www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator_
                                                    (http://www.myspace.com/mississippiinvestigator)


                                                    Services include but not limited to, online record searches, courier
                                                    services, domestic-fidelity checks, employee theft, process service, witness
                                                    interview, surveillance, specialized referrals for computer forensics, recovery &
                                                    extractions, missing children cases. Also willing to work with teams on cold
                                                    cases. Professional courtesy to other PI's & Attorneys . I promise to give you
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                                                    In a message dated 12/2/2007 11:33:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                    administrator@... writes:




                                                    Bob Hrodey wrote:

                                                    > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests
                                                    > for "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be
                                                    > licensed,insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case,
                                                    > your argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
                                                    > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
                                                    > I am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin,
                                                    > mileage, etc. NOT you.

                                                    Bob,

                                                    I agree with everything you said, with the exception of one minor
                                                    point. Having just gone through an insurance audit, I can tell you
                                                    that most PIs do not have workers' compensation insurance. If I
                                                    engage the services of either an individual PI or a PI agency and
                                                    they do not have workers' compensation coverage, I am on the hook for
                                                    paying that premium. Not one of the individual PIs that I engaged to
                                                    do work for me on a subcontract basis had workers' compensation
                                                    coverage; and only two of the PI agencies did. All of them had
                                                    general liability coverage, but that is probably only because the
                                                    state requires it. It doesn't shock me that the individual PIs
                                                    lacked workers' compensation coverage, but you would be surprised how
                                                    many PI agencies, even PI agencies with actual employees, lack that
                                                    coverage.

                                                    The bottom line is that the contractor is more than likely
                                                    left "holding the bag" to pay workers' compensation coverage on the
                                                    subcontractor. On the other hand, it is likely that the contractor
                                                    doesn't have workers' compensation coverage anyway. If the
                                                    contractor does happen to have workers' compensation coverage, the
                                                    rate is probably around 4% at the most. The contractor is still
                                                    going to get away without having to pay matching social security and
                                                    medicare (6.2% and 1.45% respectively) along with federal and state
                                                    unemployment taxes (varies) and general liability insurance (around
                                                    4%).

                                                    I don't necessarily take issue with people offering assignments at
                                                    ridiculously low rates to other PIs. We all have the capacity to
                                                    say "NO" and some of us should exercise it more. It feels good to
                                                    say "NO" to a case or client; and all of us should "just say no" to
                                                    these companies wanting to pay ridiculously low rates. If we all
                                                    just say no, these companies will be forced to change their practices.

                                                    I do take issue with companies that advertise and accept cases in
                                                    states in which they are not licensed. These are the companies we
                                                    all see everyday posting that they "need assistance" with a case in
                                                    ABC City. They should say the following if they want to be close to
                                                    accurate: "We advertise our company on the internet as being a large
                                                    national expert PI agency, so now we have a client in some far away
                                                    state who was dumb enough to believe our bullshit facade. We need a
                                                    local PI willing to do the actual field work for less than half their
                                                    normal rate. By the way, you will have to wait 30 days or more to
                                                    get paid."








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