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RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner illegal ?

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  • C.I.S. Lists
    There was a case in Texas a few years back that addressed just this issue. Witness A was sitting in his living room, listening to a 900MHz scanner. Said
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      There was a case in Texas a few years back that addressed just this issue.
      Witness A was sitting in his living room, listening to a 900MHz scanner.
      Said scanner was able to pick up cell phone conversation that were close by.
      Said Witness hears and records a conversation in which a neighbor admitted
      to several crimes.
      Witness A ends up charged and pled guilty to a violation of Title 18 USC Sec
      2511, got probation because he really didn't mean any harm, but the tape was
      also used in state court against the person whom appeared on the tape.
      This was about 10 years ago...can't remember the names involved.

      Maybe you should be asking this question of your own attorney.
      Brian K. Ingram, Owner
      Consulting Investigation Services
      Email Tracing/Internet &eBusiness Investigations
      Forensic Data Recovery,
      Catastrophic Event Investigations,
      Major Case Criminal Defense
      "Setting the New Standards in Private Investigations"
      brian@...
      www.cispi.net
      www.itraceemail.com
      Texas P.I. License A-8429
      972-937-3938
      School Approval Number: N-204 Instructor Approval Number: I-405



      _____

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Jim Parker
      Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:50 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
      illegal ?



      How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

      As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
      ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

      Jim

      -----Original Message-----
      From: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@
      <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
      Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
      To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
      illegal ?

      Hello,

      I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
      Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
      airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
      this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
      husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
      brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
      small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
      soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
      scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
      planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
      autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
      makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
      to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
      against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
      hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
      and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
      daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
      daughters life several times.

      The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
      though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
      to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
      same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

      Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
      is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
      telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
      daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
      put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
      to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
      little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
      judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
      today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
      I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
      law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
      a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
      to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
      really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
      if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
      legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
      much for any and all help!

      AlvinsBabyCakes






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vicki Siedow
      I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the same complex or building. I sure wouldn t want to live that near my ex. She needs an
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the same
        complex or building. I sure wouldn't want to live that near my ex. She
        needs an attorney and a moving van.



        "My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
        same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife."



        Was the scanner altered in any way? Did they overhear the conversation
        accidentally, or were they trying to tune them in? I think since they
        specifically recorded it they do have a problem, but I'd have done the same
        thing if it was my kid.



        Vicki Siedow
        Siedow & Associates Investigations
        & Legal Support Services
        2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
        La Crescenta, CA 91214
        Los Angeles County
        CA PI License # 22852
        800.448.6431 toll free
        818.242.0130 local
        818.688.3295 fax
        <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
        <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
        Member NCISS, IWWA

        Need economical legal help?
        Concerned about Identity Theft?
        Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Jim Parker
        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:50 AM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
        illegal ?



        How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

        As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
        ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

        Jim

        -----Original Message-----
        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
        On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
        illegal ?

        Hello,

        I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
        Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
        airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
        this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
        husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
        brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
        small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
        soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
        scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
        planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
        autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
        makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
        to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
        against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
        hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
        and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
        daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
        daughters life several times.

        The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
        though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
        to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
        same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

        Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
        is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
        telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
        daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
        put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
        to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
        little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
        judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
        today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
        I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
        law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
        a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
        to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
        really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
        if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
        legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
        much for any and all help!

        AlvinsBabyCakes





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim Parker
        You re right, Vicki; I missed that part when I first
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          <<< I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the
          same complex or building. >>>


          You're right, Vicki; I missed that part when I first glanced over it.

          Anyhooo... under Michigan law, your daughter's husband committed the felony
          crime of willful eavesdropping. He has also committed the further felony
          crime of divulging the illegally obtained conversations to your daughter.
          If the ex's wife is smart enough to pursue it, your daughter's husband AND
          your daughter could be facing serious criminal charges and extensive civil
          liabilities including injunctive relieve and monetary damages (including
          punitive).

          However, Michigan law does not prohibit the admissibility of evidence
          obtained in such a manner.

          That's why the police will not act on the taped conversations, but the judge
          has allowed them as evidence.

          It's also illegal to manufacture a scanner that allows the monitoring of
          cordless phone frequencies or is easily modified to do so, but the liability
          on that falls on the seller, not the buyer. If, however, your daughter's
          husband modified the scanner himself so he could monitor a cordless phone,
          then that's also a federal crime.

          I'd say at this stage, your daughter and her current husband have been
          lucky, so it might be an idea just to shut up and not make a legal issue of
          this.

          Jim



          -----Original Message-----
          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Vicki Siedow
          Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:58 PM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
          illegal ?

          I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the same
          complex or building. I sure wouldn't want to live that near my ex. She
          needs an attorney and a moving van.

          "My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
          same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife."

          Was the scanner altered in any way? Did they overhear the conversation
          accidentally, or were they trying to tune them in? I think since they
          specifically recorded it they do have a problem, but I'd have done the same
          thing if it was my kid.

          Vicki Siedow
          Siedow & Associates Investigations
          & Legal Support Services
          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
          La Crescenta, CA 91214
          Los Angeles County
          CA PI License # 22852
          800.448.6431 toll free
          818.242.0130 local
          818.688.3295 fax
          <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/ <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> >
          http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com <http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com>
          <mailto:Siedow@... <mailto:Siedow%40LawAndOrder.com> >
          Siedow@... <mailto:Siedow%40LawAndOrder.com>
          Member NCISS, IWWA

          Need economical legal help?
          Concerned about Identity Theft?
          Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.

          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On Behalf Of Jim Parker
          Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:50 AM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
          illegal ?

          How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

          As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
          ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

          Jim

          -----Original Message-----
          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
          Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
          illegal ?

          Hello,

          I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
          Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
          airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
          this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
          husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
          brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
          small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
          soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
          scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
          planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
          autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
          makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
          to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
          against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
          hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
          and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
          daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
          daughters life several times.

          The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
          though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
          to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
          same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

          Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
          is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
          telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
          daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
          put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
          to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
          little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
          judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
          today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
          I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
          law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
          a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
          to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
          really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
          if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
          legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
          much for any and all help!

          AlvinsBabyCakes

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suesarkis@aol.com
          Jim - I m curious. Does Michigan outlaw John Q. Public from owning scanners? If so then I would heartily agree with your comments. However, if possession is
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Jim -

            I'm curious. Does Michigan outlaw John Q. Public from owning scanners? If
            so then I would heartily agree with your comments.

            However, if possession is lawful and it is a public broadcast, why would
            taping it be considered an eavesdrop? Such conduct is not unlawful in
            California according to an attorney I just double checked with since the broadcast is
            neither protected nor copyrighted.



            Sincerely yours,
            Sue
            ________________________
            Sue Sarkis
            Sarkis Detective Agency

            (est. 1976)
            PI 6564
            _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

            1346 Ethel Street
            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
            818-242-2505
            818-242-9824 FAX

            "one Nation under God"

            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
            a military veteran !



            ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • C.I.S. Lists
            Sue, The possession of the police scanner is irrelevant. The issue is, did they knowingly listen in to intercepted communications. Answer: Yes, as evidenced by
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Sue,
              The possession of the police scanner is irrelevant.
              The issue is, did they knowingly listen in to intercepted communications.
              Answer: Yes, as evidenced by the fact they had to run get a tape recorder to
              tape the conversation.
              If they would have turned on the scanner, heard some talking that was
              obviously not the police and said, oops and turned it off, then I'd argue
              against the culpable mental state...but that didn't happen. The listened,
              they realized they could hear the cordless telephone conversations and they
              recorded said conversations...oops, felonies.
              I would hazard the guess that the scanner was retrieved exactly because it
              was an older 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz scanner that would be able to monitor the
              spectrum of frequencies that the cordless phones work on..... but that's
              just my suspicious nature.
              This sounds eerily like the case in Dallas that resulted in criminal charges
              and a plea deal.
              Brian

              _____

              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
              Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:12 PM
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
              illegal ?



              Jim -

              I'm curious. Does Michigan outlaw John Q. Public from owning scanners? If
              so then I would heartily agree with your comments.

              However, if possession is lawful and it is a public broadcast, why would
              taping it be considered an eavesdrop? Such conduct is not unlawful in
              California according to an attorney I just double checked with since the
              broadcast is
              neither protected nor copyrighted.



              Sincerely yours,
              Sue
              ________________________
              Sue Sarkis
              Sarkis Detective Agency

              (est. 1976)
              PI 6564
              _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

              1346 Ethel Street
              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
              818-242-2505
              818-242-9824 FAX

              "one Nation under God"

              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
              a military veteran !

              ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol
              <http://www.aol.com> com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Parker
              Sue, It s not a public broadcast A public broadcast is like a radio station broadcasting a signal that is intended for the public. A private conversation,
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Sue,

                It's not a "public broadcast" A public broadcast is like a radio station
                broadcasting a signal that is intended for the public.

                A private conversation, by very definition, is not intended for the public.
                It is a crime both in Michigan and federally to eavesdrop on a private
                communication that you are not a party to.

                Federal law used to provide an exception for signals transmitted from a
                cordless handset to the base unit, but that exemption was done away with
                years ago.

                It is not a crime in Michigan (or federally) to own a scanner capable of
                receiving these frequencies (it's illegal to manufacture, import or sell
                them), but it is a federal crime to modify one to receive those frequencies.

                Jim



                -----Original Message-----
                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
                Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:12 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                illegal ?

                Jim -

                I'm curious. Does Michigan outlaw John Q. Public from owning scanners? If
                so then I would heartily agree with your comments.

                However, if possession is lawful and it is a public broadcast, why would
                taping it be considered an eavesdrop? Such conduct is not unlawful in
                California according to an attorney I just double checked with since the
                broadcast is
                neither protected nor copyrighted.



                Sincerely yours,
                Sue
                ________________________
                Sue Sarkis
                Sarkis Detective Agency

                (est. 1976)
                PI 6564
                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/ <http://www.sarkispi.com/> )

                1346 Ethel Street
                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                818-242-2505
                818-242-9824 FAX

                "one Nation under God"

                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                a military veteran !

                ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
                <http://www.aol.com>

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • alvinsbabycakes
                Hi Jim, My daughter and her ex husband both live in the same apartment building. My daughter lives on the ground floor and her ex husband and his wife live in
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Jim,
                  My daughter and her ex husband both live in the same apartment building. My daughter lives on the ground floor and her ex husband and his wife live in the upstairs apartment. My daughter and her ex husband agreed to do this so their son would be able to see them both. My daughter wanted her ex husband to bond more with their son, and as far as she knew she and her ex's wife were getting along fine and my daughter thought everything was working out in the best intrest of their son.
                  Thank you very much for responding I really appreciate it very much.
                  AlvinsBabyCakes


                  Jim Parker <Jim@...> wrote:
                  How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

                  As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
                  ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

                  Jim


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                  illegal ?


                  Hello,

                  I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
                  Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
                  airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                  this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                  husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
                  brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                  small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
                  soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                  scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
                  planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                  autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
                  makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
                  to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                  against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
                  hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
                  and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                  daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                  daughters life several times.

                  The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
                  though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
                  to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
                  same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

                  Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
                  is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
                  telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
                  daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
                  put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
                  to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
                  little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
                  judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
                  today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
                  I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
                  law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
                  a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
                  to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
                  really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
                  if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
                  legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                  much for any and all help!

                  AlvinsBabyCakes








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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • alvinsbabycakes
                  Jim, Nothing was done deliberatly as I stated in the previous post as far as my daughter knew they were all getting along fine and doing what was in the best
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 26, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jim,
                    Nothing was done deliberatly as I stated in the previous post as far as my daughter knew they were all getting along fine and doing what was in the best intrest of my grandson who is autistic. I understand deliberately taping or tapping a phone is against the law as it should be, however; planning to deliberatly drug a 4 year old autistic boy so he would sleep I would think one would consider this child endangerment, not to mention child abuse. I just didn't understand the judge allowing this as evidence and the police stating it was against the law and threatening to arrest not only my daughter but me, and I had nothing to do with any of this! So in conclusion I was confussed due to the judges decision and the opinion of the police. Thank you very much for answering my post I appreciate this very much.
                    Take Care, Be Safe, and have a Wonderful Day.!
                    AlvinsBabyCakes

                    Jim Parker <Jim@...> wrote:
                    <<< I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the
                    same complex or building. >>>


                    You're right, Vicki; I missed that part when I first glanced over it.

                    Anyhooo... under Michigan law, your daughter's husband committed the felony
                    crime of willful eavesdropping. He has also committed the further felony
                    crime of divulging the illegally obtained conversations to your daughter.
                    If the ex's wife is smart enough to pursue it, your daughter's husband AND
                    your daughter could be facing serious criminal charges and extensive civil
                    liabilities including injunctive relieve and monetary damages (including
                    punitive).

                    However, Michigan law does not prohibit the admissibility of evidence
                    obtained in such a manner.

                    That's why the police will not act on the taped conversations, but the judge
                    has allowed them as evidence.

                    It's also illegal to manufacture a scanner that allows the monitoring of
                    cordless phone frequencies or is easily modified to do so, but the liability
                    on that falls on the seller, not the buyer. If, however, your daughter's
                    husband modified the scanner himself so he could monitor a cordless phone,
                    then that's also a federal crime.

                    I'd say at this stage, your daughter and her current husband have been
                    lucky, so it might be an idea just to shut up and not make a legal issue of
                    this.

                    Jim



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Vicki Siedow
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:58 PM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                    illegal ?

                    I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the same
                    complex or building. I sure wouldn't want to live that near my ex. She
                    needs an attorney and a moving van.

                    "My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
                    same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife."

                    Was the scanner altered in any way? Did they overhear the conversation
                    accidentally, or were they trying to tune them in? I think since they
                    specifically recorded it they do have a problem, but I'd have done the same
                    thing if it was my kid.

                    Vicki Siedow
                    Siedow & Associates Investigations
                    & Legal Support Services
                    2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                    La Crescenta, CA 91214
                    Los Angeles County
                    CA PI License # 22852
                    800.448.6431 toll free
                    818.242.0130 local
                    818.688.3295 fax
                    >
                    http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                    >
                    Siedow@...
                    Member NCISS, IWWA

                    Need economical legal help?
                    Concerned about Identity Theft?
                    Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.

                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    ]
                    On Behalf Of Jim Parker
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:50 AM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                    illegal ?

                    How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

                    As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
                    ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

                    Jim

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com

                    [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com

                    ]
                    On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com

                    Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                    illegal ?

                    Hello,

                    I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
                    Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
                    airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                    this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                    husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
                    brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                    small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
                    soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                    scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
                    planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                    autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
                    makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
                    to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                    against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
                    hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
                    and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                    daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                    daughters life several times.

                    The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
                    though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
                    to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
                    same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

                    Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
                    is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
                    telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
                    daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
                    put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
                    to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
                    little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
                    judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
                    today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
                    I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
                    law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
                    a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
                    to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
                    really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
                    if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
                    legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                    much for any and all help!

                    AlvinsBabyCakes

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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                  • John Huheey
                    Esteemed colleagues I think you need to consult with an attorney on this one, because there are so many issues involved. But, based on my experience,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Esteemed colleagues

                      I think you need to consult with an attorney on this one, because
                      there are so many issues involved. But, based on my experience,
                      illegally obtained evidence usually will be admitted as evidence in
                      court, as long as it can be properly authenticated and the party who
                      obtained it is not a law enforcement official. That does not mean
                      that the party who obtained the evidence will not be charged civilly
                      or criminally by another party (example: Linda Tripp). I recall many
                      cases where, as a law enforcement officer, we received illegally
                      recorded conversations (tapes made by third parties), and then were
                      able to use them as evidence in cases because we (the LEO's) had not
                      recorded the conversation ourselves.

                      John Huheey
                      Veritas Investigations
                      Dayton, OH


                      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "alvinsbabycakes"
                      <alvinsbabycakes@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hello,
                      >
                      > I have read all the previous posts about recordings of
                      conversations in
                      > Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the
                      public
                      > airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                      > this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                      > husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he
                      also
                      > brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                      > small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner
                      in and
                      > soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                      > scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife
                      was
                      > planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                      > autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but
                      it
                      > makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter
                      went
                      > to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                      > against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge
                      after
                      > hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence
                      1,2,
                      > and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                      > daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                      > daughters life several times.
                      >
                      > The small town they live in has a small city police department, and
                      even
                      > though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police
                      refuse
                      > to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in
                      the
                      > same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.
                      >
                      > Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation
                      that
                      > is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a
                      cordless
                      > telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence
                      against my
                      > daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal
                      investigation ,
                      > put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M.
                      due
                      > to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing
                      the
                      > little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this
                      same
                      > judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the
                      judge!! So
                      > today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be
                      present.
                      > I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there
                      is a
                      > law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming
                      through
                      > a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's
                      illegal
                      > to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So
                      I am
                      > really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated,
                      especially
                      > if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know
                      what is
                      > legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                      > much for any and all help!
                      >
                      > AlvinsBabyCakes
                      >
                    • RMRI, Inc.
                      Excellent points, John. And I think your post pretty well sums up this situation, without too much confusion as to the technicalities presented in this
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Excellent points, John. And I think your post pretty well sums up this
                        situation, without too much confusion as to the technicalities presented in
                        this scenario.



                        Personally, it is my contention that the law was intentionally broken by the
                        recording party, the fact that someone took the time to use a recording
                        device to record the scanner conversations and has an admitted knowledge of
                        who the person was that this person was recording, demonstrates that they
                        knowingly intended to eavesdrop on the conversation of a person that they
                        were not a direct party to (i.e. first party or second party in a 2 party
                        conversation). .



                        Typically when the Police inform you that this is illegal, it is because
                        they are too lazy to build a case with the information you have. If that
                        were not the case, then the Police would actually charge you with a crime
                        since you gave a confession, instead of simply "cautioning" you that what
                        you did was illegal. So, perhaps you should be thankful for lazy Police
                        Officers in this case?



                        And all of this is to say, you still may be able to get this information
                        admitted into court, as John said and I concur.







                        Rick.



                        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of John Huheey
                        Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:57 AM
                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                        illegal ?



                        Esteemed colleagues

                        I think you need to consult with an attorney on this one, because
                        there are so many issues involved. But, based on my experience,
                        illegally obtained evidence usually will be admitted as evidence in
                        court, as long as it can be properly authenticated and the party who
                        obtained it is not a law enforcement official. That does not mean
                        that the party who obtained the evidence will not be charged civilly
                        or criminally by another party (example: Linda Tripp). I recall many
                        cases where, as a law enforcement officer, we received illegally
                        recorded conversations (tapes made by third parties), and then were
                        able to use them as evidence in cases because we (the LEO's) had not
                        recorded the conversation ourselves.

                        John Huheey
                        Veritas Investigations
                        Dayton, OH

                        --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "alvinsbabycakes"
                        <alvinsbabycakes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hello,
                        >
                        > I have read all the previous posts about recordings of
                        conversations in
                        > Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the
                        public
                        > airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                        > this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                        > husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he
                        also
                        > brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                        > small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner
                        in and
                        > soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                        > scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife
                        was
                        > planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                        > autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but
                        it
                        > makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter
                        went
                        > to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                        > against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge
                        after
                        > hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence
                        1,2,
                        > and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                        > daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                        > daughters life several times.
                        >
                        > The small town they live in has a small city police department, and
                        even
                        > though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police
                        refuse
                        > to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in
                        the
                        > same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.
                        >
                        > Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation
                        that
                        > is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a
                        cordless
                        > telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence
                        against my
                        > daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal
                        investigation ,
                        > put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M.
                        due
                        > to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing
                        the
                        > little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this
                        same
                        > judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the
                        judge!! So
                        > today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be
                        present.
                        > I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there
                        is a
                        > law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming
                        through
                        > a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's
                        illegal
                        > to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So
                        I am
                        > really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated,
                        especially
                        > if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know
                        what is
                        > legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                        > much for any and all help!
                        >
                        > AlvinsBabyCakes
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • George Rodriguez
                        John, The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree only applies to LEO, as you stated. I too, had many pieces of evidence/information that if I had obtained as a LEO in
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John,

                          The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree only applies to LEO, as you stated. I too, had many pieces of evidence/information that if I had obtained as a LEO in the manner they were obtained would have been thrown so far out of the courthouse, they still may not have landed.



                          George Rodriguez
                          Clear Source Research, LLC
                          Webb City, MO 64870
                          866-596-5627 Phone
                          866-553-2888 Phone
                          213-232-3711 Fax

                          ---------------------------------
                          Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jim Parker
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            <<<< But, based on my experience, illegally obtained evidence usually will
                            be admitted as evidence in court, as long as it can be properly
                            authenticated and the party who obtained it is not a law enforcement
                            official. >>>>


                            John,

                            You should note that under federal law, intercepted communications are
                            specifically prohibited from being used as evidence in any trial, hearing or
                            proceeding (see 18 USC §2515) and to do so, or endeavor to do so is a felony
                            crime punishable with up to 5 years in prison.

                            United States v. Wuliger provides a good example. Wuliger was an attorney
                            representing the husband in a divorce case. During deposition and the
                            divorce hearing, Wuliger used transcripts and tapes of illegally obtained
                            communications of the wife as evidence. He was subsequently prosecuted by
                            the US Attorney under 18 USC §2511(1)(d) which makes it a crime to "use" or
                            "endeavor to use" any part of an illegally obtained communication.

                            The district court fined Wuliger $5,000 and placed him on two year probation
                            on the condition that he serve a 30-day home detention and surrender
                            his license to practice law. In January, 1992, the Supreme Court of Ohio
                            indefinitely suspended him.

                            I believe his conviction was overturned on appeal, but only on a
                            technicality (that the jury had not been properly instructed that Wuliger
                            must have known or had reason to know that the conversations were recorded
                            illegally.)

                            He was saved from liability in a civil suit later filed by the wife, only
                            because the parties original divorce decree included a broad release of the
                            parties and their lawyers from a series of rights, benefits, and
                            liabilities. The language of the release, the court determined, would
                            include a civil suit brought by the wife for violation of The Wiretap Act.

                            Jim



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of John Huheey
                            Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:57 AM
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                            illegal ?

                            Esteemed colleagues

                            I think you need to consult with an attorney on this one, because
                            there are so many issues involved. But, based on my experience,
                            illegally obtained evidence usually will be admitted as evidence in
                            court, as long as it can be properly authenticated and the party who
                            obtained it is not a law enforcement official. That does not mean
                            that the party who obtained the evidence will not be charged civilly
                            or criminally by another party (example: Linda Tripp). I recall many
                            cases where, as a law enforcement officer, we received illegally
                            recorded conversations (tapes made by third parties), and then were
                            able to use them as evidence in cases because we (the LEO's) had not
                            recorded the conversation ourselves.

                            John Huheey
                            Veritas Investigations
                            Dayton, OH

                            --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "alvinsbabycakes"
                            <alvinsbabycakes@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Hello,
                            >
                            > I have read all the previous posts about recordings of
                            conversations in
                            > Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the
                            public
                            > airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                            > this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                            > husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he
                            also
                            > brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                            > small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner
                            in and
                            > soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                            > scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife
                            was
                            > planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                            > autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but
                            it
                            > makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter
                            went
                            > to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                            > against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge
                            after
                            > hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence
                            1,2,
                            > and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                            > daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                            > daughters life several times.
                            >
                            > The small town they live in has a small city police department, and
                            even
                            > though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police
                            refuse
                            > to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in
                            the
                            > same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.
                            >
                            > Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation
                            that
                            > is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a
                            cordless
                            > telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence
                            against my
                            > daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal
                            investigation ,
                            > put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M.
                            due
                            > to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing
                            the
                            > little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this
                            same
                            > judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the
                            judge!! So
                            > today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be
                            present.
                            > I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there
                            is a
                            > law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming
                            through
                            > a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's
                            illegal
                            > to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So
                            I am
                            > really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated,
                            especially
                            > if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know
                            what is
                            > legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                            > much for any and all help!
                            >
                            > AlvinsBabyCakes
                            >
                          • RMRI, Inc.
                            I think the below scenario is a fair representation of how evidence that may be obtained illegally by a private citizen can still be ruled as admissible ...
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think the below scenario is a fair representation of how evidence that may
                              be obtained illegally by a private citizen can still be ruled as admissible
                              in court:







                              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              ---------------------------------------------

                              Police blotter" is a weekly News.com report on the intersection of
                              technology and the law.

                              What: Husband uses keystroke logger to spy on wife's suspected
                              relationship with another woman, who sues to prevent the records from
                              being used in the divorce case.

                              When: U.S. District Judge Thomas Rose in the southern district of
                              Ohio rules on February 14.

                              Outcome: Rose denies request for injunction preventing the electronic
                              documents from being introduced as evidence in the divorce case.

                              What happened, according to court documents:
                              Once upon a time, tempestuous divorces might have included one spouse
                              snooping through the other's private correspondence or eavesdropping
                              on private conversations taking place in another room.

                              That kind of snooping was, for the most part, entirely legal. But
                              when the same kind of snooping happens in electronic form, it can be
                              a federal crime. (Last year, Police Blotter covered the case of the
                              Garfinkel divorce. Another case involving spyware arose a year
                              earlier.)

                              That doesn't seem to be the case here. Jeffery Havlicek filed for a
                              divorce from his wife Amy Havlicek in Ohio's Greene County Common
                              Pleas Court. Amy had been chatting through e-mail and instant
                              messages with a woman named Christina Potter. Jeffery suspected that
                              Potter and his wife, Amy, were romantically involved in a
                              lesbian "relationship of some sort," his attorney would later say in
                              a legal brief.

                              Around that time, Jeffery installed some sort of monitoring software
                              on the family computer--a Dell Precision 220 that was located in the
                              guest room, was used by multiple family members including teenage
                              children, and did not have a password on it most of the time. (There
                              is disagreement about why the software was installed; Jeffery says it
                              was in part because of his daughter's increased use of the Internet.)

                              Jeffery has admitted this much. In a sworn affidavit (PDF), he said
                              that he installed an unnamed monitoring utility in September 2005,
                              three months before his wife moved out of their home. The affidavit
                              said the utility "collects keyboard typing, screen shots, and
                              requested access to Web sites...The keyboard typing utility logs the
                              time and sequence of keystrokes...The screen shot logging feature is
                              similar to hitting the 'print screen' button on most keyboards. It
                              saves an image of what appears on the monitor."

                              He also admitted to downloading e-mail from his wife Amy's Web-based
                              e-mail account, but claimed it was authorized because she had chosen
                              to save her username and password through the browser's "remember me"
                              feature.

                              He planned to use that vast array of electronic evidence as
                              ammunition to win his divorce case. Eventually his lawyer showed some
                              of the correspondence between Amy Havlicek and Christina Potter to
                              Amy's own attorney. In an affidavit (PDF), Potter claims that the
                              correspondence was also shown to neighbors and a court-appointed
                              custody evaluator "to harass, annoy, and inflict emotional injury on
                              me."

                              Potter, his wife's alleged paramour, responded by filing a federal
                              lawsuit designed to shut Jeffery up. She asked for an injunction
                              barring any "disclosure" or "dissemination" of the electronic
                              documents, including preventing them from being used in the divorce
                              case taking place in state court.

                              The Electronic Communications Privacy Act, a federal law, was
                              violated during the recording, Potter claimed. ECPA (18 USC Section
                              2511) bans anyone from disclosing "to any other person the contents
                              of any wire, oral, or electronic communication" that was obtained
                              illegally.

                              Potter lost. U.S. District Judge Thomas Rose said that ECPA does not
                              permit courts to disallow such evidence, saying that appeals
                              courts "have concluded that Congress intentionally omitted illegally
                              intercepted electronic communications from the category of cases in
                              which the remedy of suppression is available." He also rejected her
                              request for a broader injunction, saying it would violate Jeffery's
                              freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment.

                              Rose did say, however, that "disclosure of the information in state
                              court by Jeffery Havlicek or his attorney" might be "actionable
                              civilly or criminally." He suggested that the "remember me" option
                              probably didn't give Jeffery an implied right to view his wife's e-
                              mail messages. And he ordered Jeffery to provide Potter, his wife's
                              alleged paramour, with the complete set of electronic evidence that
                              he had planned to use in the divorce case.

                              Excerpt from Rose's opinion:
                              Because the suppression provision excludes illegally intercepted wire
                              and oral communications from the courtroom, but does not mention
                              electronic communications, several courts, including the Sixth
                              Circuit, have concluded that Congress intentionally omitted illegally
                              intercepted electronic communications from the category of cases in
                              which the remedy of suppression is available.

                              With this distinction in mind, the court finds that it does not have
                              the authority to forbid the disclosure of the allegedly intercepted
                              communications to the state official determining custody of the
                              Havliceks' children or any other state court proceeding. This is not
                              to imply, however, that disclosure of the information in state court
                              by Jeffery Havlicek or his attorney might not be actionable civilly
                              or criminally under 18 USC (Section) 2511. In any event, the court's
                              inability to enjoin the presentation of this evidence in state court
                              does not resolve the question of whether the injunction on disclosing
                              this information in other context should issue. Therefore, the court
                              will proceed to consider the appropriateness of relief in this case,
                              beginning with plaintiff's chances of succeeding on the merits.

                              Defendant's response to the motion for preliminary injunction claims
                              that the keystroke recording and screen shot recording software do
                              not record communications contemporaneously with the transmission of
                              the communications. Contemporaneousness was an element originally
                              introduced to 18 USC (Section) 2511 when the law applied only to wire
                              and oral communications...

                              We conclude that the term "electronic communication" includes
                              transient electronic storage that is intrinsic to the communication
                              process for such communications. That conclusion is consistent with
                              our precedent...

                              Moreover, the court views the screen shot software as distinct from
                              the keystroke software in regards to the interstate commerce
                              requirement. In contrast to the keystrokes, which, when recorded,
                              have not traveled in interstate commerce, the incoming emails
                              subjected to the screen shot software have traveled in interstate
                              commerce. Additionally, there is no evidence before the court to
                              allow any conclusion that the technical aspects of the instant case
                              result in Potter's claim being defeated by a lack of
                              contemporaneousness, even if the court were to find this element
                              necessary...

                              Defendant raises another hurdle to success on the merits, however, by
                              referring to the case of United States v. Ropp, which focuses on the
                              requirement in 18 USC (Section) 2510(12) that the interception be of
                              an interstate or foreign communication or be of a communication
                              affecting interstate commerce. Ropp notes that keystroke software
                              records the entirely internal transmission from the keyboard to the
                              CPU, and records all keystrokes, whether they initiate signals
                              destined to travel in interstate commerce or not. The decision,
                              however, seems to read the statute as requiring the communication to
                              be traveling in interstate commerce, rather than merely "affecting"
                              interstate commerce. It seems to this court that the keystrokes that
                              send a message off into interstate commerce "affect" interstate
                              commerce...

                              Because the ECPA does not provide for the relief of suppression of
                              illegally intercepted electronic communications sought to be used as
                              evidence in a court case, and because a balancing of plaintiff's
                              impending irreparable harms and the public interest in the requested
                              injunction against plaintiff's likelihood of success on the merits of
                              her claims weighs in favor of not granting the requested injunction,
                              plaintiff's motion for preliminary injunction, Doc. 16, is denied.

                              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              ----------------------------

                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Jim Parker
                              Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:35 AM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Re: Is recording conversation from a police
                              scanner illegal ?



                              <<<< But, based on my experience, illegally obtained evidence usually will
                              be admitted as evidence in court, as long as it can be properly
                              authenticated and the party who obtained it is not a law enforcement
                              official. >>>>

                              John,

                              You should note that under federal law, intercepted communications are
                              specifically prohibited from being used as evidence in any trial, hearing or
                              proceeding (see 18 USC §2515) and to do so, or endeavor to do so is a felony
                              crime punishable with up to 5 years in prison.

                              United States v. Wuliger provides a good example. Wuliger was an attorney
                              representing the husband in a divorce case. During deposition and the
                              divorce hearing, Wuliger used transcripts and tapes of illegally obtained
                              communications of the wife as evidence. He was subsequently prosecuted by
                              the US Attorney under 18 USC §2511(1)(d) which makes it a crime to "use" or
                              "endeavor to use" any part of an illegally obtained communication.

                              The district court fined Wuliger $5,000 and placed him on two year probation
                              on the condition that he serve a 30-day home detention and surrender
                              his license to practice law. In January, 1992, the Supreme Court of Ohio
                              indefinitely suspended him.

                              I believe his conviction was overturned on appeal, but only on a
                              technicality (that the jury had not been properly instructed that Wuliger
                              must have known or had reason to know that the conversations were recorded
                              illegally.)

                              He was saved from liability in a civil suit later filed by the wife, only
                              because the parties original divorce decree included a broad release of the
                              parties and their lawyers from a series of rights, benefits, and
                              liabilities. The language of the release, the court determined, would
                              include a civil suit brought by the wife for violation of The Wiretap Act.

                              Jim

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                              [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                              On Behalf Of John Huheey
                              Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:57 AM
                              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                              illegal ?

                              Esteemed colleagues

                              I think you need to consult with an attorney on this one, because
                              there are so many issues involved. But, based on my experience,
                              illegally obtained evidence usually will be admitted as evidence in
                              court, as long as it can be properly authenticated and the party who
                              obtained it is not a law enforcement official. That does not mean
                              that the party who obtained the evidence will not be charged civilly
                              or criminally by another party (example: Linda Tripp). I recall many
                              cases where, as a law enforcement officer, we received illegally
                              recorded conversations (tapes made by third parties), and then were
                              able to use them as evidence in cases because we (the LEO's) had not
                              recorded the conversation ourselves.

                              John Huheey
                              Veritas Investigations
                              Dayton, OH

                              --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                              <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                              <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> , "alvinsbabycakes"
                              <alvinsbabycakes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello,
                              >
                              > I have read all the previous posts about recordings of
                              conversations in
                              > Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the
                              public
                              > airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                              > this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                              > husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he
                              also
                              > brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                              > small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner
                              in and
                              > soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                              > scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife
                              was
                              > planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                              > autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but
                              it
                              > makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter
                              went
                              > to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                              > against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge
                              after
                              > hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence
                              1,2,
                              > and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                              > daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                              > daughters life several times.
                              >
                              > The small town they live in has a small city police department, and
                              even
                              > though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police
                              refuse
                              > to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in
                              the
                              > same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.
                              >
                              > Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation
                              that
                              > is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a
                              cordless
                              > telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence
                              against my
                              > daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal
                              investigation ,
                              > put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M.
                              due
                              > to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing
                              the
                              > little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this
                              same
                              > judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the
                              judge!! So
                              > today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be
                              present.
                              > I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there
                              is a
                              > law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming
                              through
                              > a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's
                              illegal
                              > to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So
                              I am
                              > really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated,
                              especially
                              > if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know
                              what is
                              > legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                              > much for any and all help!
                              >
                              > AlvinsBabyCakes
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jim Parker
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                <<<< I think the below scenario is a fair representation of how evidence
                                that may
                                be obtained illegally by a private citizen can still be ruled as admissible
                                in court: >>>>


                                Well, yes and no. The problem is that what you have quoted is not relevant
                                to the current discussion, simply because what we are discussing is the
                                interception of wire/oral communications, and the case you are talking about
                                concerns electronic communications.

                                Intercepted wire/oral communications ARE federally prohibited for use as
                                evidence, whereas electronic communications are not (see 18 USC §2515)

                                §2515 reads:


                                Prohibition of use as evidence of intercepted wire or oral communications

                                Whenever any wire or oral communication has been intercepted, no part of the
                                contents of such communication and no evidence derived therefrom may be
                                received in evidence in any trial, hearing, or other proceeding in or before
                                any court, grand jury, department, officer, agency, regulatory body,
                                legislative committee, or other authority of the United States, a State, or
                                a political subdivision thereof if the disclosure of that information would
                                be in violation of this chapter.


                                You'll see that electronic communications aren't covered in that section on
                                admissibility (although the act of intercepting and disclosing the
                                communications are, as your case noted).

                                Also keep in mind that state law also come into play. Just two years ago in
                                Florida, for example, Beverly O'Brien attempted to introduce communications
                                obtained by a placing key-logger on her husband's computer as evidence in
                                their divorce case. The 5th District Court of Appeal disallowed the use of
                                the communications as evidence, noting that the wife's actions were "illegal
                                and punishable as a crime".

                                Jim
                              • Jim Parker
                                That would be up to the Court to decide, but as most have noted, the fact that your daughter s husband took the
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  <<<< Nothing was done deliberatly ... >>>>

                                  That would be up to the Court to decide, but as most have noted, the fact
                                  that your daughter's husband took the initiative to hook up a recorder to
                                  the scanner would tend to indicate otherwise.

                                  The fact that the police threatened to arrest you and your daughter is
                                  precisely why I suggested your best course of action is just to shut up (in
                                  the legal sense) and not make an issue out of it.

                                  Technically, as you've described the events, several state and federal
                                  crimes were committed, and if no one at this stage wants to pursue criminal
                                  or civil action or isn't smart enough to, I wouldn't be giving them the
                                  ammunition or inclination to do so.

                                  Jim



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:00 PM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                  illegal ?

                                  Jim,
                                  Nothing was done deliberatly as I stated in the previous post as far as my
                                  daughter knew they were all getting along fine and doing what was in the
                                  best intrest of my grandson who is autistic. I understand deliberately
                                  taping or tapping a phone is against the law as it should be, however;
                                  planning to deliberatly drug a 4 year old autistic boy so he would sleep I
                                  would think one would consider this child endangerment, not to mention child
                                  abuse. I just didn't understand the judge allowing this as evidence and the
                                  police stating it was against the law and threatening to arrest not only my
                                  daughter but me, and I had nothing to do with any of this! So in conclusion
                                  I was confussed due to the judges decision and the opinion of the police.
                                  Thank you very much for answering my post I appreciate this very much.
                                  Take Care, Be Safe, and have a Wonderful Day.!
                                  AlvinsBabyCakes

                                  Jim Parker <Jim@... <mailto:Jim%40FloridaDetectives.com> >
                                  wrote:
                                  <<< I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the
                                  same complex or building. >>>

                                  You're right, Vicki; I missed that part when I first glanced over it.

                                  Anyhooo... under Michigan law, your daughter's husband committed the felony
                                  crime of willful eavesdropping. He has also committed the further felony
                                  crime of divulging the illegally obtained conversations to your daughter.
                                  If the ex's wife is smart enough to pursue it, your daughter's husband AND
                                  your daughter could be facing serious criminal charges and extensive civil
                                  liabilities including injunctive relieve and monetary damages (including
                                  punitive).

                                  However, Michigan law does not prohibit the admissibility of evidence
                                  obtained in such a manner.

                                  That's why the police will not act on the taped conversations, but the judge
                                  has allowed them as evidence.

                                  It's also illegal to manufacture a scanner that allows the monitoring of
                                  cordless phone frequencies or is easily modified to do so, but the liability
                                  on that falls on the seller, not the buyer. If, however, your daughter's
                                  husband modified the scanner himself so he could monitor a cordless phone,
                                  then that's also a federal crime.

                                  I'd say at this stage, your daughter and her current husband have been
                                  lucky, so it might be an idea just to shut up and not make a legal issue of
                                  this.

                                  Jim

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                  On Behalf Of Vicki Siedow
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:58 PM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                  illegal ?

                                  I believe she said that they were in two different apartments in the same
                                  complex or building. I sure wouldn't want to live that near my ex. She
                                  needs an attorney and a moving van.

                                  "My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
                                  same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife."

                                  Was the scanner altered in any way? Did they overhear the conversation
                                  accidentally, or were they trying to tune them in? I think since they
                                  specifically recorded it they do have a problem, but I'd have done the same
                                  thing if it was my kid.

                                  Vicki Siedow
                                  Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                  & Legal Support Services
                                  2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                  La Crescenta, CA 91214
                                  Los Angeles County
                                  CA PI License # 22852
                                  800.448.6431 toll free
                                  818.242.0130 local
                                  818.688.3295 fax
                                  >
                                  http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com <http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com>
                                  >
                                  Siedow@... <mailto:Siedow%40LawAndOrder.com>
                                  Member NCISS, IWWA

                                  Need economical legal help?
                                  Concerned about Identity Theft?
                                  Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.

                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>

                                  [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  ]
                                  On Behalf Of Jim Parker
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:50 AM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                  illegal ?

                                  How far away from the ex-husband's house did this monitoring take place?

                                  As in, if you (and the scanner) were in Michigan, where was the husband's
                                  ex-wife when she was making her phone calls? Another state? Another city?

                                  Jim

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>


                                  [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>

                                  ]
                                  On Behalf Of alvinsbabycakes
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:47 AM
                                  To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>

                                  Subject: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                  illegal ?

                                  Hello,

                                  I have read all the previous posts about recordings of conversations in
                                  Michigan, however; I didn't see anything about recording from the public
                                  airways like a conversation which comes through a police scanner? Is
                                  this also illegal? I live in Michigan and my daughter and her new
                                  husband after returning from a visit with his parents in which he also
                                  brought more of his personal belongings home with them , one being a
                                  small police scanner. After returning home he plugged the scanner in and
                                  soon they heard my daughters ex-husbands wife coming through their
                                  scanner. In the conversation my daughter learned that her ex's wife was
                                  planning on illegally drugging my daughter's little boy who is 4 and
                                  autistic. I won't repeat this girls comments about my grandson but it
                                  makes one sick to think anyone could be so cruel. Now my daughter went
                                  to the court and filled a motion on parenting time and also a PPO
                                  against her ex husbands wife for abusing my grandson. The judge after
                                  hearing my daughter accepted the taped conversations as evidence 1,2,
                                  and 3 along with transcripts of each tape entered as evidence. My
                                  daughter also got a PPO against her ex's wife for threatening my
                                  daughters life several times.

                                  The small town they live in has a small city police department, and even
                                  though this girl has violated the PPO's against her, the police refuse
                                  to do anything?? My daughter and her husband and the kids live in the
                                  same apartment building as her ex husband and his wife.

                                  Question is I guess if this is illegal also to tape a conversation that
                                  is coming through a police scanner from this girl talking on a cordless
                                  telephone, how can the judge accept this as entered evidence against my
                                  daughters ex husbands wife, refer CPS to do a throughal investigation ,
                                  put PPO'S on her and set up yet another hearing today at 1:00 P.M. due
                                  to her claiming she is not guilty of making any threats or abusing the
                                  little 4 year old boy? Yet , when last in court in front of this same
                                  judge she admitted her violent temper she even yelled at the judge!! So
                                  today as I understand it the prosecuting attorney will also be present.
                                  I don't understand this either? But I would like to know if there is a
                                  law code about the recording of a telephone conversation coming through
                                  a police scanner through the public airways? The police say it's illegal
                                  to record the conversations, the judge accepts them as evidence? So I am
                                  really confussed! Any help would be so greatly appreciated, especially
                                  if I can get it before court this afternoon, so I at least know what is
                                  legal and what is illegal and where this may go. Thank you very very
                                  much for any and all help!

                                  AlvinsBabyCakes

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  ---------------------------------


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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • RanchoAttySvc@aol.com
                                  The original post in this thread came from what appears to be a private citizen and not a professional investigator. Laws vary from state to state, and of
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The original post in this thread came from what appears to be a private
                                    citizen and not a professional investigator. Laws vary from state to state, and
                                    of course we have to consider the federal statutes as well.

                                    Cindy, please provide more contact information so that someone can contact
                                    you directly or refer you to someone in your area who could answer your
                                    particular questions with specific information. Signing only as "alvinsbabycakes"
                                    would, I imagine, discourage many responses that might be helpful to you.

                                    Thank you all for using complete signature blocks. Anonymous posts
                                    directed to a world-wide forum are suspect to many of us.

                                    _"RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                                    (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)
                                    Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                                    Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                                    RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                                    28465 Old Town Front St #318
                                    Temecula, CA 92590
                                    (951) 693-0165
                                    _www.ranchoattorneyservice.com_ (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)



                                    ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jim Parker
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      <<<< Cindy, please provide more contact information so that someone can
                                      contact you directly or refer you to someone in your area who could answer
                                      your particular questions with specific information. Signing only as
                                      "alvinsbabycakes"
                                      would, I imagine, discourage many responses that might be helpful to you.
                                      >>>


                                      I dunno, Michele...

                                      If I were posting to a public forum admitting to several acts that could
                                      well be construed as federal and state crimes, I wouldn't be too inclined to
                                      provide my real name or contact information either.

                                      I suspect that the original poster in some way suspected that the actions of
                                      her daughter's boyfriend may be criminal acts, and that's why she didn't
                                      provide full information.

                                      I'm kinda ok with that. If it were a post like "can anyone get bank account
                                      info" or similar, I'd want to know who was asking, but in a matter merely
                                      for someone's personal edification, I don't think we need to know.

                                      Jim


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of RanchoAttySvc@...
                                      Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:59 PM
                                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                      illegal ?

                                      The original post in this thread came from what appears to be a private
                                      citizen and not a professional investigator. Laws vary from state to state,
                                      and
                                      of course we have to consider the federal statutes as well.

                                      Cindy, please provide more contact information so that someone can contact
                                      you directly or refer you to someone in your area who could answer your
                                      particular questions with specific information. Signing only as
                                      "alvinsbabycakes"
                                      would, I imagine, discourage many responses that might be helpful to you.

                                      Thank you all for using complete signature blocks. Anonymous posts
                                      directed to a world-wide forum are suspect to many of us.

                                      _"RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                                      (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/
                                      <http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/> )
                                      Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                                      Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                                      RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                                      28465 Old Town Front St #318
                                      Temecula, CA 92590
                                      (951) 693-0165
                                      _www.ranchoattorneyservice.com_ (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/
                                      <http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/> )

                                      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
                                      <http://www.aol.com>

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Vicki Siedow
                                      It would also be a good idea to get your legal advice from an attorney. As you can see, while we investigators work with recordings and the laws pertaining to
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        It would also be a good idea to get your legal advice from an attorney. As
                                        you can see, while we investigators work with recordings and the laws
                                        pertaining to them, each case is different, as is each jurisdiction, each
                                        judge and each DA. You will do best to get an attorney in the correct
                                        jurisdiction and area of specialty to study this particular case and advise
                                        you. Your local bar should be able to direct you, or if you cannot afford
                                        to go that route consider Prepaid Legal Services. I use it and sell it with
                                        good results.



                                        http://prepaidlegal.com/hub/vsiedow



                                        I agree that while autism wears hard on caregivers, drugs, especially those
                                        given without the agreement of the parents, are not a good solution. Check
                                        out this organization, they find non-drug solutions for mental illness,
                                        autism, ADD, etc.



                                        http://alternativementalhealth.com/



                                        Vicki Siedow
                                        Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                        & Legal Support Services
                                        2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                        La Crescenta, CA 91214
                                        Los Angeles County
                                        CA PI License # 22852
                                        800.448.6431 toll free
                                        818.242.0130 local
                                        818.688.3295 fax
                                        <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com
                                        <mailto:Siedow@...> Siedow@...
                                        Member NCISS, IWWA

                                        Need economical legal help?
                                        Concerned about Identity Theft?
                                        Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.



                                        From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                        On Behalf Of RanchoAttySvc@...
                                        Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:59 AM
                                        To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                        illegal ?



                                        The original post in this thread came from what appears to be a private
                                        citizen and not a professional investigator. Laws vary from state to state,
                                        and
                                        of course we have to consider the federal statutes as well.

                                        Cindy, please provide more contact information so that someone can contact
                                        you directly or refer you to someone in your area who could answer your
                                        particular questions with specific information. Signing only as
                                        "alvinsbabycakes"
                                        would, I imagine, discourage many responses that might be helpful to you.

                                        Thank you all for using complete signature blocks. Anonymous posts
                                        directed to a world-wide forum are suspect to many of us.

                                        _"RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                                        (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)
                                        Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                                        Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                                        RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                                        28465 Old Town Front St #318
                                        Temecula, CA 92590
                                        (951) 693-0165
                                        _www.ranchoattorneyservice.com_ (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/)

                                        ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jim Parker
                                        There s no need whatsoever that I can see for this lady to retain an attorney on this issue. Maybe on the custody issue, but certainly not to answer questions
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Sep 27, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          There's no need whatsoever that I can see for this lady to retain an
                                          attorney on this issue. Maybe on the custody issue, but certainly not to
                                          answer questions on something that's already over and done with.

                                          Not to mention that lawyers frequently give their clients terribly bad
                                          advice, because by far, the vast majority of attorneys don't have anywhere
                                          near the experience and understanding that the people here who deal in these
                                          issues daily have.

                                          I frequently get calls from attorneys asking me to do things that are
                                          blatantly illegal, but don't know that until I tell them and explain exactly
                                          what laws they (or I) would be violating.

                                          I'll bet several others here face the same issues frequently.

                                          This lady is already ahead of the game by getting evidence submitted that
                                          could potentially lead to serious criminal charges or extensive civil
                                          damages, but no one thus far has blinked an eye. Throwing attorneys into
                                          the mix is only going to inspire the opposition to get her own attorney, who
                                          may well be smarter than she is and want to pursue this matter further.

                                          It's simply inviting trouble.

                                          Jim



                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                                          On Behalf Of Vicki Siedow
                                          Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:49 PM
                                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                          illegal ?

                                          It would also be a good idea to get your legal advice from an attorney. As
                                          you can see, while we investigators work with recordings and the laws
                                          pertaining to them, each case is different, as is each jurisdiction, each
                                          judge and each DA. You will do best to get an attorney in the correct
                                          jurisdiction and area of specialty to study this particular case and advise
                                          you. Your local bar should be able to direct you, or if you cannot afford
                                          to go that route consider Prepaid Legal Services. I use it and sell it with
                                          good results.

                                          http://prepaidlegal.com/hub/vsiedow <http://prepaidlegal.com/hub/vsiedow>

                                          I agree that while autism wears hard on caregivers, drugs, especially those
                                          given without the agreement of the parents, are not a good solution. Check
                                          out this organization, they find non-drug solutions for mental illness,
                                          autism, ADD, etc.

                                          http://alternativementalhealth.com/ <http://alternativementalhealth.com/>

                                          Vicki Siedow
                                          Siedow & Associates Investigations
                                          & Legal Support Services
                                          2629 Foothill Blvd. #262
                                          La Crescenta, CA 91214
                                          Los Angeles County
                                          CA PI License # 22852
                                          800.448.6431 toll free
                                          818.242.0130 local
                                          818.688.3295 fax
                                          <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/ <http://siedow.lawandorder.com/> >
                                          http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com <http://Siedow.LawAndOrder.com>
                                          <mailto:Siedow@... <mailto:Siedow%40LawAndOrder.com> >
                                          Siedow@... <mailto:Siedow%40LawAndOrder.com>
                                          Member NCISS, IWWA

                                          Need economical legal help?
                                          Concerned about Identity Theft?
                                          Check the links on my site, or contact me directly.

                                          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                                          <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                          On Behalf Of RanchoAttySvc@... <mailto:RanchoAttySvc%40aol.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:59 AM
                                          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Is recording conversation from a police scanner
                                          illegal ?

                                          The original post in this thread came from what appears to be a private
                                          citizen and not a professional investigator. Laws vary from state to state,
                                          and
                                          of course we have to consider the federal statutes as well.

                                          Cindy, please provide more contact information so that someone can contact
                                          you directly or refer you to someone in your area who could answer your
                                          particular questions with specific information. Signing only as
                                          "alvinsbabycakes"
                                          would, I imagine, discourage many responses that might be helpful to you.

                                          Thank you all for using complete signature blocks. Anonymous posts
                                          directed to a world-wide forum are suspect to many of us.

                                          _"RASCAL" - Your friendly neighborhood Process Server_
                                          (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/
                                          <http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/> )
                                          Michele Dawn, RPS 117 & CA PI 24790
                                          Rancho Attorney Service of California &
                                          RASCAL's Research & Location Services
                                          28465 Old Town Front St #318
                                          Temecula, CA 92590
                                          (951) 693-0165
                                          _www.ranchoattorneyservice.com_ (http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/
                                          <http://www.ranchoattorneyservice.com/> )

                                          ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
                                          <http://www.aol.com>

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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