Excellent points from everyone. Maybe, we (private investigators) can collectively come-up with a generalized statement that can be used on our blogs, emails, websites, etc. that helps educate the uninformed of the serious and sensitive predicament we are all in. These links can direct people to a central website/URL that will inform, offer sample text for emails/letters and more importantly list direct links, addresses and fax numbers to the various government agencies that are investigating and/or making these laws.
We can not save call records - but as an industry we can try and help our associations and more importantly ourselves from future government intervention.
Just a thought....
Patrick Baird, TPLI
1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations
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----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Hrodey
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS
> In a message dated 9/7/2007 8:54:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> rth@... writes:
> We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
> relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.
> That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
> need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
> not mine!
> Bob -
> I do disagree with you on this one. The police and the municipalities do
> not need SDT's. Why should we for the same case for the same evidence? Why
> should we be forced to show our hand in advance robbing us of ANY opportunity
> for surprise or impeachment? Also, at least here in CA, a consumer notice has
> to be sent to the party prior to sending a subpoena and if they say NO, the
> court might side with them. Many hundreds of thousands of dollars later,
> the Supreme Court after the Appellate Court will send it back and grant the
That makes it seem pretty obvious that the State of CA deems this
information to be confidential and worthy of protection.
As for wholesale delivery of these records to LEO's... I'll admit to
being a bit behind the curve since I've been out of LE for a number
years but last I knew the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986
(and as it's been amended) prohibits the release of this information to
LE without court order or subpoena. MUD and TOLLS, the call records
we're talking about required a subpoena from LE even before ECPA.
Suspect that this may have changed with the Patriot Act, etc. but...
As for kidnappings and parental abductions? If the family hasn't
involved LE, that's their problem and that of the victim.
> Not only is this such an outrageous waste of money, it is also a totally
> unfair disadvantage to our side.
Yes, it is. However, to advocate giving carte blanc access to these
records to any private detective is just asking for it. These extreme
examples, as cited by Ricky, are the exception, not the rule. The
firestorm and subsequent legislation that rained down on us did NOT
arise due to some PI getting tolls to solve a kidnapping. It came from
some idiots figuring that the end justified the means. Well, I think
they found out that it didn't.
No offense to anyone reading this (but if the shoe fits) but, quite
frankly, we all know of folks who are walking around stating they are
PI's and, in the eyes of the law, they are. However, there are a number
of those folks that I would not trust to pour water out of a bucket if
the instructions were printed on the bottom of the bucket and they were
instructed to read the directions first<g> These are the folks who are
going to have access to my personal records? Don't think so.
Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
email: inquiry@... or rth@...
Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
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