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DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

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  • Patrick Baird
    http://blog.a1peoplesearch.com/2007/09/death-of-call-records.html Thank you, Patrick Baird, TPLI Private Investigator - Process Server - Notary 817-579-0083
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      http://blog.a1peoplesearch.com/2007/09/death-of-call-records.html

      Thank you,

      Patrick Baird, TPLI
      Private Investigator - Process Server - Notary
      817-579-0083 Phone
      817-579-5301 Fax
      1-866-440-6110 Cellular
      U.S. & International Telephone Investigations
      http://www.FindByPhone.com/

      Proud Member of the following Professional Associations;
      NCISS, NAIS, NTPIA, TALI, CALI, FALI, PICA, ACA, NAPPS, TPSA


      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
      This e-mail contains confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the individual named on this transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail please destroy this message immediately.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suesarkis@aol.com
      This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I wasn t the
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as
        there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I wasn't
        the intended recipient, they would not have wound up in my specific mailbox
        since the Internet is not a careless as my USPS carrier. So many people have
        similar warnings and all one can do is wonder.


        Patrick -

        Since you did send us to YOUR blog and you are the author of that wonderful
        presentation, I humbly request a few things.

        For starters, please grant us permission to share with our Reps and Senators
        which would include your signature line.

        Second, please ask everyone on all lists to actually share with the Reps and
        Senators. Also allow us to share with other lists that are independent of
        the other members. We don't want to inundate with repeats.

        Third, ask that they inform you who and when sent so that we (you) can keep
        track so that the rest of us can divvy up the remaining unnoticed Reps and
        Senators.

        We need to make sure they all start reading intelligent statements about the
        harm they are doing to everyone. It is up to us as individuals to save our
        bacon and we cannot rely on associations that represent, in most cases, a
        very small handful of licensees.

        Thank you for your splendid input.



        Sincerely yours,
        Sue
        ________________________
        Sue Sarkis
        Sarkis Detective Agency

        (est. 1976)
        PI 6564_ www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

        1346 Ethel Street
        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
        818-242-2505
        818-242-9824 FAX

        "one Nation under God"

        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
        a military veteran !



        ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
        http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • i-direct
        Sue Unintended recipient can refer to the fact that an email travels through many servers to reach its intended recipient and can be intercepted and read at
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Sue



          'Unintended recipient' can refer to the fact that an email travels through
          many servers to reach its intended recipient and can be intercepted and read
          at any point along its route unless encrypted.



          It is interesting to note that most UK Solicitors and even the Bar Council
          in the UK advocate the use of such disclaimers. What's good enough for a
          Barrister, is good enough for me.

          One IT Law expert in the UK has written on the subject and starts off by
          saying:

          The value of disclaimers is limited, since the courts normally attach more
          weight to the substantive content of the communication and the circumstances
          in which it is made than to any disclaimer. Having said that, disclaimers
          may possibly be helpful if an issue ends up in court in various respects .
          and, since disclaimers cost (almost) nothing, it is worthwhile to use them.
          Even though their effectiveness in court is doubtful, they may provide a
          useful argument in negotiations to resolve a dispute.

          The comments are based on the position under English law. I email / work
          internationally, so all countries laws may have relevance to me, depending
          on what I am doing and where I am doing it at the time.

          More at http://www.weblaw.co.uk/artemail.php





          Stephen R Peters

          Senior Investigative Consultant
          * Email: <mailto:admin@...> srp@...



          * Office: 0870 990 3211
          * Fax: 0870 990 3212

          * Email: <mailto:admin@...> strand@...

          * Web: <http://www.id-net.co.uk/> www.id-net.co.uk



          MEMBER: BRITISH AGENTS, CPIRC (Canada), LEAA (USA), IWWA

          SIGNATORY: BPPG



          _____

          From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
          Sent: 07 September 2007 20:31
          To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS




          This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as
          there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I
          wasn't
          the intended recipient, they would not have wound up in my specific mailbox
          since the Internet is not a careless as my USPS carrier. So many people have

          similar warnings and all one can do is wonder.


          Patrick -

          Since you did send us to YOUR blog and you are the author of that wonderful
          presentation, I humbly request a few things.

          For starters, please grant us permission to share with our Reps and Senators

          which would include your signature line.

          Second, please ask everyone on all lists to actually share with the Reps and

          Senators. Also allow us to share with other lists that are independent of
          the other members. We don't want to inundate with repeats.

          Third, ask that they inform you who and when sent so that we (you) can keep
          track so that the rest of us can divvy up the remaining unnoticed Reps and
          Senators.

          We need to make sure they all start reading intelligent statements about the

          harm they are doing to everyone. It is up to us as individuals to save our
          bacon and we cannot rely on associations that represent, in most cases, a
          very small handful of licensees.

          Thank you for your splendid input.



          Sincerely yours,
          Sue
          ________________________
          Sue Sarkis
          Sarkis Detective Agency

          (est. 1976)
          PI 6564_ www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/>
          .com/)

          1346 Ethel Street
          Glendale, CA 91207-1826
          818-242-2505
          818-242-9824 FAX

          "one Nation under God"

          If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
          a military veteran !

          ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
          at
          http://discover. <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
          aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Patrick Baird
          Excellent point Sue!! Yes I grant permission to any and all that would like to participate in this discussion and to better inform our local, state, and
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Excellent point Sue!!

            Yes I grant permission to any and all that would like to participate in this discussion and to better inform our local, state, and federal government to use my post on this matter including my signature line. I know this particular issue is dead, however, I am happy to offer my assistance to the industry in any way possible. Thanks again for your comments!!

            Patrick Baird, TPLI

            1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
            Phone: 817-579-0083
            Fax: 817-579-5301
            Cell: 1-866-440-6110
            U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: i-direct
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:35 PM
            Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS


            _____

            From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
            Sent: 07 September 2007 20:31
            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

            This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as
            there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I
            wasn't
            the intended recipient, they would not have wound up in my specific mailbox
            since the Internet is not a careless as my USPS carrier. So many people have

            similar warnings and all one can do is wonder.

            Patrick -

            Since you did send us to YOUR blog and you are the author of that wonderful
            presentation, I humbly request a few things.

            For starters, please grant us permission to share with our Reps and Senators

            which would include your signature line.

            Second, please ask everyone on all lists to actually share with the Reps and

            Senators. Also allow us to share with other lists that are independent of
            the other members. We don't want to inundate with repeats.

            Third, ask that they inform you who and when sent so that we (you) can keep
            track so that the rest of us can divvy up the remaining unnoticed Reps and
            Senators.

            We need to make sure they all start reading intelligent statements about the

            harm they are doing to everyone. It is up to us as individuals to save our
            bacon and we cannot rely on associations that represent, in most cases, a
            very small handful of licensees.

            Thank you for your splendid input.

            Sincerely yours,
            Sue
            ________________________
            Sue Sarkis
            Sarkis Detective Agency

            (est. 1976)
            PI 6564_ www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/>
            .com/)

            1346 Ethel Street
            Glendale, CA 91207-1826
            818-242-2505
            818-242-9824 FAX

            "one Nation under God"

            If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
            a military veteran !

            ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
            at
            http://discover. <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
            aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ricky Gurley
            To all, I believe that call records have a place in our industry too. However, I also believe that they are a consumer privacy breach. This is why I am a
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              To all,

              I believe that call records have a place in our industry too. However, I also believe that they are a consumer privacy breach. This is why I am a proponent of having a system in place where the people in the professions that need them and have a legitimate immediate need to obtain them; could have access to them under some type of a permissible purpose clause.

              There is a point that I would like to comment on. With all due respect, I think it is unfair to suggest that it would be appropriate to obtain these records without some type of authorization by saying �this only affects the people that have something to hide�. That has long since been a recognized way of trying to �trick� someone into giving up one or some of their privacy privileges. It�s kind of like asking someone to strip naked, and when they refuse to do so, then saying �Well why not, if you have nothing to hide ?�.

              I think we are better off acknowledging that obtaining consumer call records by someone other than who these records belong to or who has an account that these records go to is in fact a breach of personal privacy, However, I believe the right approach to this issue is that in some cases there is a need to have consumer call records which is greater than and outweighs any consumer privacy concerns.


              Rick.


              Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
              Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
              Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
              2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
              Phone: (888) 571-0958 Fax: (877) 795-9800 Cell: (573) 529-0808
              Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email:
              rmriinc@...
              "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

              RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Patrick Baird <pdjservices@...>
              To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: suesarkis@...
              Sent: Friday, September 7, 2007 8:06:16 PM
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

              Excellent point Sue!!

              Yes I grant permission to any and all that would like to participate in this discussion and to better inform our local, state, and federal government to use my post on this matter including my signature line. I know this particular issue is dead, however, I am happy to offer my assistance to the industry in any way possible. Thanks again for your comments!!

              Patrick Baird, TPLI

              1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
              Phone: 817-579-0083
              Fax: 817-579-5301
              Cell: 1-866-440-6110
              U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: i-direct
              To: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:35 PM
              Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

              _____

              From: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com]
              On Behalf Of suesarkis@aol. com
              Sent: 07 September 2007 20:31
              To: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

              This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as
              there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I
              wasn't
              the intended recipient, they would not have wound up in my specific mailbox
              since the Internet is not a careless as my USPS carrier. So many people have

              similar warnings and all one can do is wonder.

              Patrick -

              Since you did send us to YOUR blog and you are the author of that wonderful
              presentation, I humbly request a few things.

              For starters, please grant us permission to share with our Reps and Senators

              which would include your signature line.

              Second, please ask everyone on all lists to actually share with the Reps and

              Senators. Also allow us to share with other lists that are independent of
              the other members. We don't want to inundate with repeats.

              Third, ask that they inform you who and when sent so that we (you) can keep
              track so that the rest of us can divvy up the remaining unnoticed Reps and
              Senators.

              We need to make sure they all start reading intelligent statements about the

              harm they are doing to everyone. It is up to us as individuals to save our
              bacon and we cannot rely on associations that represent, in most cases, a
              very small handful of licensees.

              Thank you for your splendid input.

              Sincerely yours,
              Sue
              ____________ _________ ___
              Sue Sarkis
              Sarkis Detective Agency

              (est. 1976)
              PI 6564_ www.sarkispi. com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi .com/>
              .com/)

              1346 Ethel Street
              Glendale, CA 91207-1826
              818-242-2505
              818-242-9824 FAX

              "one Nation under God"

              If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
              a military veteran !

              ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
              at
              http://discover. <http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour>
              aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ricky Gurley
              That s a fine opinion if you are working any type of an investigation where you can afford to wait for a subpoena. Child Recovery Abduction Cases? Wait for a
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                That's a fine opinion if you are working any type of an investigation where you can afford to wait for a subpoena.


                Child Recovery Abduction Cases? Wait for a subpoena, you say?

                Kidnapping Cases? Wait for subpoena?

                A Runaway Case? Wait for a subpoena?


                I suppose these types of cases would hold for a subpoena, but the victim's in these cases or the perpetrator of these types of crimes might not.........




                Rick.



                Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                Phone: (888) 571-0958 Fax: (877) 795-9800 Cell: (573) 529-0808
                Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email:
                rmriinc@...
                "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Bob Hrodey <rth@...>
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2007 12:48:17 AM
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

                Ricky Gurley wrote:
                > To all,
                >
                > I believe that call records have a place in our industry too. However, I also believe that they are a consumer privacy breach. This is why I am a proponent of having a system in place where the people in the professions that need them and have a legitimate immediate need to obtain them; could have access to them under some type of a permissible purpose clause.

                We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
                relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.

                That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
                need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
                not mine!

                --

                Enjoy,

                Bob
                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                email: inquiry@hrodey. com or rth@...
                Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bob Hrodey
                ... We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It s called a subpoena. That s
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 7, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ricky Gurley wrote:
                  > To all,
                  >
                  > I believe that call records have a place in our industry too. However, I also believe that they are a consumer privacy breach. This is why I am a proponent of having a system in place where the people in the professions that need them and have a legitimate immediate need to obtain them; could have access to them under some type of a permissible purpose clause.

                  We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
                  relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.

                  That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
                  need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
                  not mine!


                  --

                  Enjoy,

                  Bob
                  ______________________________________________________________________________

                  Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                  Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                  Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                  Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                  email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                  Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                • suesarkis@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/7/2007 8:54:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rth@hrodey.com writes: We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 8, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In a message dated 9/7/2007 8:54:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                    rth@... writes:

                    We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
                    relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.

                    That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
                    need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
                    not mine!



                    Bob -

                    I do disagree with you on this one. The police and the municipalities do
                    not need SDT's. Why should we for the same case for the same evidence? Why
                    should we be forced to show our hand in advance robbing us of ANY opportunity
                    for surprise or impeachment? Also, at least here in CA, a consumer notice has
                    to be sent to the party prior to sending a subpoena and if they say NO, the
                    court might side with them. Many hundreds of thousands of dollars later,
                    the Supreme Court after the Appellate Court will send it back and grant the
                    SDT.

                    Not only is this such an outrageous waste of money, it is also a totally
                    unfair disadvantage to our side.


                    If you read most State's PUC laws you will see that LEO's do not need
                    subpoenas. Disclosure to them is permissible.




                    Sincerely yours,
                    Sue
                    ________________________
                    Sue Sarkis
                    Sarkis Detective Agency

                    (est. 1976)
                    PI 6564_ www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

                    1346 Ethel Street
                    Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                    818-242-2505
                    818-242-9824 FAX

                    "one Nation under God"

                    If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                    a military veteran !



                    ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Patrick Baird
                    The main issue I was trying to point out was the fact that we simply can not stand still and watch all of tools in our arsenal be taken away from big brother,
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 8, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The main issue I was trying to point out was the fact that we simply can not
                      stand still and watch all of tools in our arsenal be taken away from big
                      brother, in doing so government officials (on all levels) are simply helping
                      the criminals and deadbeats. If this cycle continues the whole financial
                      industry will fold because they will enviably ban skiptracing altogether.

                      Sue made some great points and it is up to each and every one of us to get
                      vigilant, involved and ultimately help ourselves, our associations and most
                      importantly the private investigation industry fight to keep the necessary
                      tools we need to make a difference.

                      Great Group!!

                      Patrick Baird, TPLI

                      1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
                      Phone: 817-579-0083
                      Fax: 817-579-5301
                      Cell: 1-866-440-6110
                      U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations
                      http://www.FindByPhone.com/
                      .
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Ricky Gurley" <rmriinc@...>
                      To: <infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 9:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS


                      To all,

                      I believe that call records have a place in our industry too. However, I
                      also believe that they are a consumer privacy breach. This is why I am a
                      proponent of having a system in place where the people in the professions
                      that need them and have a legitimate immediate need to obtain them; could
                      have access to them under some type of a permissible purpose clause.

                      There is a point that I would like to comment on. With all due respect, I
                      think it is unfair to suggest that it would be appropriate to obtain these
                      records without some type of authorization by saying "this only affects the
                      people that have something to hide". That has long since been a recognized
                      way of trying to "trick" someone into giving up one or some of their privacy
                      privileges. It's kind of like asking someone to strip naked, and when they
                      refuse to do so, then saying "Well why not, if you have nothing to hide ?".

                      I think we are better off acknowledging that obtaining consumer call records
                      by someone other than who these records belong to or who has an account that
                      these records go to is in fact a breach of personal privacy, However, I
                      believe the right approach to this issue is that in some cases there is a
                      need to have consumer call records which is greater than and outweighs any
                      consumer privacy concerns.


                      Rick.


                      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                      Webpage: http://www.rmriinc.com
                      Blog: http://rmriinc.livejournal.com/
                      2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                      Phone: (888) 571-0958 Fax: (877) 795-9800 Cell: (573) 529-0808
                      Company Email: RMRI-Inc@... Internet Email:
                      rmriinc@...
                      "He Who Forgets Will Be Destined To Remember"

                      RMRI, Inc. Authorized Investigator Portal http://rmri.no-ip.org/mydms



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Patrick Baird <pdjservices@...>
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: suesarkis@...
                      Sent: Friday, September 7, 2007 8:06:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

                      Excellent point Sue!!

                      Yes I grant permission to any and all that would like to participate in this
                      discussion and to better inform our local, state, and federal government to
                      use my post on this matter including my signature line. I know this
                      particular issue is dead, however, I am happy to offer my assistance to the
                      industry in any way possible. Thanks again for your comments!!

                      Patrick Baird, TPLI

                      1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
                      Phone: 817-579-0083
                      Fax: 817-579-5301
                      Cell: 1-866-440-6110
                      U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: i-direct
                      To: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:35 PM
                      Subject: RE: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

                      _____

                      From: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:infoguys-list@ yahoogroups.
                      com]
                      On Behalf Of suesarkis@aol. com
                      Sent: 07 September 2007 20:31
                      To: infoguys-list@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS

                      This is to everyone. Please get rid of those confidentiality notices as
                      there are no such law that prohibit dissemination. For that matter, if I
                      wasn't
                      the intended recipient, they would not have wound up in my specific mailbox
                      since the Internet is not a careless as my USPS carrier. So many people have

                      similar warnings and all one can do is wonder.

                      Patrick -

                      Since you did send us to YOUR blog and you are the author of that wonderful
                      presentation, I humbly request a few things.

                      For starters, please grant us permission to share with our Reps and Senators

                      which would include your signature line.

                      Second, please ask everyone on all lists to actually share with the Reps and

                      Senators. Also allow us to share with other lists that are independent of
                      the other members. We don't want to inundate with repeats.

                      Third, ask that they inform you who and when sent so that we (you) can keep
                      track so that the rest of us can divvy up the remaining unnoticed Reps and
                      Senators.

                      We need to make sure they all start reading intelligent statements about the

                      harm they are doing to everyone. It is up to us as individuals to save our
                      bacon and we cannot rely on associations that represent, in most cases, a
                      very small handful of licensees.

                      Thank you for your splendid input.

                      Sincerely yours,
                      Sue
                      ____________ _________ ___
                      Sue Sarkis
                      Sarkis Detective Agency

                      (est. 1976)
                      PI 6564_ www.sarkispi. com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi .com/>
                      .com/)

                      1346 Ethel Street
                      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                      818-242-2505
                      818-242-9824 FAX

                      "one Nation under God"

                      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                      a military veteran !

                      ************ ********* ********* ******** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
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                    • Bob Hrodey
                      ... That makes it seem pretty obvious that the State of CA deems this information to be confidential and worthy of protection. As for wholesale delivery of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 8, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        suesarkis@... wrote:
                        >
                        > In a message dated 9/7/2007 8:54:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                        > rth@... writes:
                        >
                        > We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
                        > relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.
                        >
                        > That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
                        > need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
                        > not mine!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bob -
                        >
                        > I do disagree with you on this one. The police and the municipalities do
                        > not need SDT's. Why should we for the same case for the same evidence? Why
                        > should we be forced to show our hand in advance robbing us of ANY opportunity
                        > for surprise or impeachment? Also, at least here in CA, a consumer notice has
                        > to be sent to the party prior to sending a subpoena and if they say NO, the
                        > court might side with them. Many hundreds of thousands of dollars later,
                        > the Supreme Court after the Appellate Court will send it back and grant the
                        > SDT.

                        That makes it seem pretty obvious that the State of CA deems this
                        information to be confidential and worthy of protection.

                        As for wholesale delivery of these records to LEO's... I'll admit to
                        being a bit behind the curve since I've been out of LE for a number
                        years but last I knew the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986
                        (and as it's been amended) prohibits the release of this information to
                        LE without court order or subpoena. MUD and TOLLS, the call records
                        we're talking about required a subpoena from LE even before ECPA.
                        Suspect that this may have changed with the Patriot Act, etc. but...

                        As for kidnappings and parental abductions? If the family hasn't
                        involved LE, that's their problem and that of the victim.

                        > Not only is this such an outrageous waste of money, it is also a totally
                        > unfair disadvantage to our side.

                        Yes, it is. However, to advocate giving carte blanc access to these
                        records to any private detective is just asking for it. These extreme
                        examples, as cited by Ricky, are the exception, not the rule. The
                        firestorm and subsequent legislation that rained down on us did NOT
                        arise due to some PI getting tolls to solve a kidnapping. It came from
                        some idiots figuring that the end justified the means. Well, I think
                        they found out that it didn't.

                        No offense to anyone reading this (but if the shoe fits) but, quite
                        frankly, we all know of folks who are walking around stating they are
                        PI's and, in the eyes of the law, they are. However, there are a number
                        of those folks that I would not trust to pour water out of a bucket if
                        the instructions were printed on the bottom of the bucket and they were
                        instructed to read the directions first<g> These are the folks who are
                        going to have access to my personal records? Don't think so.



                        --

                        Enjoy,

                        Bob
                        ______________________________________________________________________________

                        Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                        Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                        Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                        Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                        email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                        Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063
                      • Ricky Gurley
                        ... these ... extreme ... from ... think ... are ... number ... if ... were ... are ... Let me say this first. Currently; I could care less whether call
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 8, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hrodey <rth@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Yes, it is. However, to advocate giving carte blanc access to
                          these
                          > records to any private detective is just asking for it. These
                          extreme
                          > examples, as cited by Ricky, are the exception, not the rule. The
                          > firestorm and subsequent legislation that rained down on us did NOT
                          > arise due to some PI getting tolls to solve a kidnapping. It came
                          from
                          > some idiots figuring that the end justified the means. Well, I
                          think
                          > they found out that it didn't.
                          >
                          > No offense to anyone reading this (but if the shoe fits) but, quite
                          > frankly, we all know of folks who are walking around stating they
                          are
                          > PI's and, in the eyes of the law, they are. However, there are a
                          number
                          > of those folks that I would not trust to pour water out of a bucket
                          if
                          > the instructions were printed on the bottom of the bucket and they
                          were
                          > instructed to read the directions first<g> These are the folks who
                          are
                          > going to have access to my personal records? Don't think so.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          > Enjoy,
                          >
                          > Bob


                          Let me say this first. Currently; I could care less whether call
                          records are outlawed or not. Call records are not how I make a
                          living. I make a fairly good living too, and I have not had a need
                          for call records in quite a while. When they were legal, I
                          occasionally used them. Now that they are not (or even have the
                          slightest possibility of getting me sued), I don't touch them.
                          However, I realize that I am not the only P.I. in the world, and that
                          for some of the other P.I.s in the world, there could be a need. So,
                          I make this post.


                          In my opinion, it is these extreme examples that give way to a need
                          in certain cases for private sector personnel to have access to call
                          records. In a perfect world there could be one entire Police Task
                          Force per criminal, dedicated to bringing that one criminal to
                          justice. But in our imperfect world, the Police are backlogged with
                          cases and short on manpower to meet the demand for combating crime.
                          This is why it is foolish to say "they should have the Police
                          involved" and disregard the private citizen's often enough need to
                          hire someone in the private sector that can dedicate immediate
                          attention to a critical problem. This applies in these "extreme
                          examples" that you quote me on, Bob.

                          Here I am not saying that there is not a privacy issue, what I am
                          saying is that privacy is not always paramount. Call records are in
                          fact a "tool" that has long since been used in our industry with good
                          results, and abused by our industry with the results we are seeing
                          here in this thread. But let me ask you this; how many P.I.s REALLY
                          know how to read a database report? For those that do REALLY know how
                          to read a database report, how are call records any more invasive
                          than a database report? Often times I can determine who someone is
                          banking with from a database report. What kind of vehicle they drive.
                          Who they bought their vehicle from. Who their mother and father are.
                          Sometimes even what their political affiliations are. And sometimes
                          who they associate with. Mind you, some of this is in fact NOT public
                          records. Our "private lives" are already open books for ANYONE to
                          browse if they know how. Just go to: http://www.pipl.com and run a
                          search on someone; you can find tons of personal information on a
                          person there for FREE.

                          The notion that our privacy is sacred has long since been a myth.
                          What is surprising is to see Private Investigators that make a
                          living "snooping" into people private lives appear shocked that this
                          could be happening to them. For a Private Investigator to display
                          such a disdain for what we might consider "breaches of personal
                          privacy" is the perfect illustration of an oxymoron. Not only is this
                          an oxymoron; it raises the "BS Meter" of any intelligent consumer
                          that observes it.

                          Why not just be honest and say; "Yes getting consumer call records is
                          certainly a violation of personal privacy, but "Joe
                          Kidnapper/Rapist's" privacy may not be so important to you when it is
                          your daughter or wife he has kidnapped". I think that the consumer
                          can go with that argument better than any of the others we are
                          offering. I certainly think that argument might give a concerned
                          consumer pause more-so than saying "I snoop into people's lives for a
                          living, and I agree with the concerned consumer", because then the
                          consumer starts to think "this is the guy that is irresponsibly
                          violating people's privacy, he just hasn't been caught yet".

                          I think that some of the problem is that there should be a certain
                          amount of transparency in what we do. I don't think we have to give
                          away "trade secrets" to have that transparency either. If the
                          consumer could see that the P.I. Profession is made up mostly of
                          good, honest, and ethical people, with good intentions; instead of
                          seeing only the "bad press" we get which in reality only illustrates
                          a very minute part of our industry; the consumer would not be so
                          critical of us.


                          Those are just my thoughts.



                          Rick.



                          Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
                          "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"

                          MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
                          OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203

                          Phone: (888) 571-0958
                          Fax: (877) 795-9800
                          Cell: (573) 529-0808

                          Email
                          RMRI-Inc@...

                          Webpage
                          http://www.rmriinc.com
                        • Patrick Baird
                          To Everyone: Excellent points from everyone. Maybe, we (private investigators) can collectively come-up with a generalized statement that can be used on our
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 8, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            To Everyone:

                            Excellent points from everyone. Maybe, we (private investigators) can collectively come-up with a generalized statement that can be used on our blogs, emails, websites, etc. that helps educate the uninformed of the serious and sensitive predicament we are all in. These links can direct people to a central website/URL that will inform, offer sample text for emails/letters and more importantly list direct links, addresses and fax numbers to the various government agencies that are investigating and/or making these laws.

                            We can not save call records - but as an industry we can try and help our associations and more importantly ourselves from future government intervention.

                            Just a thought....

                            Patrick Baird, TPLI

                            1st Source / PDJ Investigations - Lic A10979
                            Phone: 817-579-0083
                            Fax: 817-579-5301
                            Cell: 1-866-440-6110
                            U.S. & International Skip Tracing & Telephone Investigations
                            http://www.FindByPhone.com/

                            CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
                            This e-mail contains confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the individual named on this transmission. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail please destroy this message immediately.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Bob Hrodey
                            To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 11:06 AM
                            Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] DEATH OF CALL RECORDS IN TEXAS


                            suesarkis@... wrote:
                            >
                            > In a message dated 9/7/2007 8:54:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            > rth@... writes:
                            >
                            > We already have legal access to them on a case by case basis where their
                            > relevancy and importance can be demonstrated. It's called a subpoena.
                            >
                            > That's quite loose enough for me, thank you. If you have a legitimate
                            > need, open the case and get a subpoena. If not, mind your own business,
                            > not mine!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bob -
                            >
                            > I do disagree with you on this one. The police and the municipalities do
                            > not need SDT's. Why should we for the same case for the same evidence? Why
                            > should we be forced to show our hand in advance robbing us of ANY opportunity
                            > for surprise or impeachment? Also, at least here in CA, a consumer notice has
                            > to be sent to the party prior to sending a subpoena and if they say NO, the
                            > court might side with them. Many hundreds of thousands of dollars later,
                            > the Supreme Court after the Appellate Court will send it back and grant the
                            > SDT.

                            That makes it seem pretty obvious that the State of CA deems this
                            information to be confidential and worthy of protection.

                            As for wholesale delivery of these records to LEO's... I'll admit to
                            being a bit behind the curve since I've been out of LE for a number
                            years but last I knew the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986
                            (and as it's been amended) prohibits the release of this information to
                            LE without court order or subpoena. MUD and TOLLS, the call records
                            we're talking about required a subpoena from LE even before ECPA.
                            Suspect that this may have changed with the Patriot Act, etc. but...

                            As for kidnappings and parental abductions? If the family hasn't
                            involved LE, that's their problem and that of the victim.

                            > Not only is this such an outrageous waste of money, it is also a totally
                            > unfair disadvantage to our side.

                            Yes, it is. However, to advocate giving carte blanc access to these
                            records to any private detective is just asking for it. These extreme
                            examples, as cited by Ricky, are the exception, not the rule. The
                            firestorm and subsequent legislation that rained down on us did NOT
                            arise due to some PI getting tolls to solve a kidnapping. It came from
                            some idiots figuring that the end justified the means. Well, I think
                            they found out that it didn't.

                            No offense to anyone reading this (but if the shoe fits) but, quite
                            frankly, we all know of folks who are walking around stating they are
                            PI's and, in the eyes of the law, they are. However, there are a number
                            of those folks that I would not trust to pour water out of a bucket if
                            the instructions were printed on the bottom of the bucket and they were
                            instructed to read the directions first<g> These are the folks who are
                            going to have access to my personal records? Don't think so.

                            --

                            Enjoy,

                            Bob
                            __________________________________________________________

                            Hrodey & Associates Established 1977
                            Post Office Box 366 Member of NALI, ASIS, FBINAA, NAPPS
                            Woodstock, IL 60098-0366 NCISS, Assoc Det of IL & P.A.W.L.I.
                            Licensed in IL & WI (815) 337-4636 Voice 337-4638 Fax
                            email: inquiry@... or rth@...
                            Illinois License 115-000783 Wisconsin 8045-063





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