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Report or Not To Report

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  • Rus B Robison
    A major consideration on what to put into your report is whether or not the report is subject to discovery by opposing counsel. If your report is discoverable,
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 16, 2007
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      A major consideration on what to put into your report is whether or not the
      report is subject to discovery by opposing counsel. If your report is
      discoverable, keep it plain vanilla. Make a verbal report to the lawyer that
      hired you on any issues you question and let him decide each issue on a
      case-by-case basis on what is exculpatory or not.



      If your report qualifies as "attorney work product" where you discuss case
      strategies, give opinions etc., then you have less to worry about. Always
      discuss any issues you have with your client before making a questionable
      report.



      With kindest regards, I remain...



      The Robison Companies, LLC

      Private Investigators



      Rus B. Robison

      General Manager



      Voice (405) 721-2295



      rbr@...





      Oklahoma's FIRST State-Licensed Private Investigation Agency.





      __



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suesarkis@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:27:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, TOM@GOHTCI.COM writes: It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 16, 2007
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        In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:27:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
        TOM@... writes:

        It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way of
        saying they lie

        Now if I missed the beginning of this thread and the info
        omitted is opinions, guesses, or other non factual information I would agree
        with sue



        Tom -

        What I was referring to for the non-PI's only was in the states where it
        matters, if I were them I would consider writing something like, "...during the
        course of the attempted serve it was learned that they moved to Boston. A
        forwarding order request at the local post office revealed ...." as opposed to
        "...during the course of the attempted service, the house was boarded up. I
        canvassed the neighborhood for hours only to find that they had moved to
        Boston. A forwarding order request at the local post office revealed ....".

        That is neither a direct lie nor is it a lie by omission. I would NEVER
        suggest that anyone lie in their reports.



        Sincerely yours,
        Sue
        ________________________
        Sue Sarkis
        Sarkis Detective Agency


        (est. 1976)
        PI 6564
        _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi.com/)

        1346 Ethel Street
        Glendale, CA 91207-1826
        818-242-2505
        818-242-9824 FAX

        "one Nation under God"

        If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
        a military veteran !



        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ricky Gurley
        ... where it ... like, ...during the ... Boston. A ... as opposed to ... boarded up. I ... moved to ... revealed .... . ... NEVER ... Tom, I think what Sue
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 16, 2007
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          --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, suesarkis@... wrote:

          > Tom -
          >
          > What I was referring to for the non-PI's only was in the states
          where it
          > matters, if I were them I would consider writing something
          like, "...during the
          > course of the attempted serve it was learned that they moved to
          Boston. A
          > forwarding order request at the local post office revealed ...."
          as opposed to
          > "...during the course of the attempted service, the house was
          boarded up. I
          > canvassed the neighborhood for hours only to find that they had
          moved to
          > Boston. A forwarding order request at the local post office
          revealed ....".
          >
          > That is neither a direct lie nor is it a lie by omission. I would
          NEVER
          > suggest that anyone lie in their reports.


          Tom, I think what Sue is saying here is that the Process Server
          should try to lie to the court in their report and indicate that they
          were not doing anything that may be construed as what is defined in
          California as the functions of a Private Investigator.

          I also think that you open up a good area of conversation here with
          your post; Tom. I think that when one thinks a little about your
          post, one can come to the conclusion that a Private Investigator
          (especially a "TRULY Licensed Private Investigator") or a Process
          Server should not do anything that they could not put in a report for
          fear of implicating their self in something illegal and/or unethical
          (Russ, that statement takes into account your post with regard to
          there being times that it may not be "strategically wise" to put
          certain information in a report, or to even write a report in some
          instances).

          And to expound further, this is the gist of my postings which seemed
          to be lost on some people. Quite simply, if a Process Server chooses
          to knock on a the subject of the serve's neighbor's door; and ask
          about the subject of the serve, the Process Server should feel free
          to put that in his or her report, and not feel like he or she has to
          hire a P.I. to knock on the neighbor's door at a cost of $100.00/Hr.
          ("TRULY Licensed Private Investigators" may charge more) to perform a
          service that he or she will charge approximately $75.00 total for.
          And the Process Server might write something to the effect of "After
          several attempts to serve this subject at this address with no
          success I conducted some field research and made a general inquiry
          (could be replaced with "and I asked the neighbor whether or not "Joe
          Schmuck" still lived next door") with the subject's neighbor as to
          whether or not the subject has been seen at this address lately in
          the interest of trying to diligently complete this serve". I am quite
          sure that this statement pretty well explains that the Process Server
          was simply trying to do his or her job, and not take on the role of a
          Private Investigator (and heaven forbid the Process Server be
          misconstrued as taking on the role of a "TRULY Licensed Private
          Investigator"); especially if the Process Server is charging a
          standard flat rate fee for their service. Furthermore it is truthful,
          it demonstrates that the Process Server has made a reasonable attempt
          to perform their duties, and it gives the court reason to permit
          alternate methods of service if it so chooses.

          Further expounding on this thread; I'd like to reiterate that any
          Process Server here that has been "scared" into believing that if you
          live in California and are not a Licensed Private Investigator
          ("TRULY Licensed"; that is), that you can not legally have an account
          with a database vendor, to put that fear aside. You can have all of
          the accounts you want to have. Having the account in and of itself is
          not illegal; it is how you use the account that may get you into
          trouble, if you so choose to abuse your access. In other words,
          Private Investigators do NOT have a "lock" on subscription based
          database accounts as you might have been led to believe (and YES,
          that applies to "TRULY Licensed Private Investigators", also)....

          Process Server's in California, do yourself a favor, do the research
          for yourself, and don't let someone try to convince you that because
          they are a Licensed Private Investigator (Or rather a "TRULY Licensed
          Private Investigator"), that you can not perform the functions of
          your job without paying them to assist you..



          Rick.
        • david jones
          Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained. There is no sense in disclosing trade secrets. ... of ... I will take some courses on how to omit facts from
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 16, 2007
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            Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained. There is no sense in disclosing trade secrets.

            Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@...> wrote: --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:
            >
            > If nothing else, it suggests what NOT to put
            > in a written
            > > report.
            >
            >
            >
            > It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way
            of
            > saying they lie

            I will take some courses on how to omit facts from my reports... Thanks
            for helping me to decide which continuing education courses might
            benefit me best, Tom... ;o)

            Rick.






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          • david jones
            All investigation work should be objective, this is not an audit. If someone were able to get a court to request the information that you found no matter how
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 16, 2007
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              All investigation work should be objective, this is not an audit. If someone were able to get a court to request the information that you found no matter how it was found and its the same information, that is key. You do not have to explain how you know the information, but you better be damn sure its accurate.

              Rus B Robison <rbr007@...> wrote: A major consideration on what to put into your report is whether or not the
              report is subject to discovery by opposing counsel. If your report is
              discoverable, keep it plain vanilla. Make a verbal report to the lawyer that
              hired you on any issues you question and let him decide each issue on a
              case-by-case basis on what is exculpatory or not.

              If your report qualifies as "attorney work product" where you discuss case
              strategies, give opinions etc., then you have less to worry about. Always
              discuss any issues you have with your client before making a questionable
              report.

              With kindest regards, I remain...

              The Robison Companies, LLC

              Private Investigators

              Rus B. Robison

              General Manager

              Voice (405) 721-2295

              rbr@...

              Oklahoma's FIRST State-Licensed Private Investigation Agency.

              __

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              ---------------------------------
              Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Thomas Eskridge
              Here s a better idea. Follow the law. IF it is true that a process server in California is violating the law by using a Data Provider---where this post
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 17, 2007
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                Here's a better idea. Follow the law. IF it is true that a process server in
                California is violating the law by using a Data Provider---where this post
                started---then just DON'T don't it. Then you have no problem determining how
                to write your report. It is kind of amazing how soon he lessons of
                Hewlett-Packard have been lost on some.



                Tom Eskridge, Chief Operations Officer

                High Tech Crime Institute

                28100 US Hwy 19 N, suite 204

                Clearwater Florida 33761

                727-499-7215

                888-300-9789

                www.gohtci.com



                _____

                From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of suesarkis@...
                Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:16 PM
                To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Using and Choosing Data Providers




                In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:27:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                TOM@... <mailto:TOM%40GOHTCI.COM> writes:

                It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way of
                saying they lie

                Now if I missed the beginning of this thread and the info
                omitted is opinions, guesses, or other non factual information I would agree
                with sue

                Tom -

                What I was referring to for the non-PI's only was in the states where it
                matters, if I were them I would consider writing something like, "...during
                the
                course of the attempted serve it was learned that they moved to Boston. A
                forwarding order request at the local post office revealed ...." as opposed
                to
                "...during the course of the attempted service, the house was boarded up. I
                canvassed the neighborhood for hours only to find that they had moved to
                Boston. A forwarding order request at the local post office revealed ....".

                That is neither a direct lie nor is it a lie by omission. I would NEVER
                suggest that anyone lie in their reports.



                Sincerely yours,
                Sue
                ________________________
                Sue Sarkis
                Sarkis Detective Agency

                (est. 1976)
                PI 6564
                _www.sarkispi.com_ (http://www.sarkispi <http://www.sarkispi.com/> .com/)

                1346 Ethel Street
                Glendale, CA 91207-1826
                818-242-2505
                818-242-9824 FAX

                "one Nation under God"

                If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank
                a military veteran !

                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
                <http://www.aol.com> com.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Thomas Eskridge
                Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained See prior post. Wonder if this one worked for HP? Tom Eskridge, Chief Operations Officer High Tech Crime
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 17, 2007
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                  Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained



                  See prior post. Wonder if this one worked for HP?



                  Tom Eskridge, Chief Operations Officer

                  High Tech Crime Institute

                  28100 US Hwy 19 N, suite 204

                  Clearwater Florida 33761

                  727-499-7215

                  888-300-9789

                  www.gohtci.com



                  _____

                  .


                  <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1003554/grpspId=1705059354/msgId
                  =11052/stime=1182059619/nc1=3848515/nc2=3848643/nc3=3848571>




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Eskridge
                  http://pasco. tbo.com/pasco/MGB5HT6FZ2F.html Can you say pay the feds $110K for facts obtained..oh yeah ..it was
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 17, 2007
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                    http://pasco. <http://pasco.tbo.com/pasco/MGB5HT6FZ2F.html>
                    tbo.com/pasco/MGB5HT6FZ2F.html



                    Can you say pay the feds $110K for facts obtained..oh yeah ..it was via
                    pretexting.







                    Tom Eskridge, Chief Operations Officer

                    High Tech Crime Institute

                    28100 US Hwy 19 N, suite 204

                    Clearwater Florida 33761

                    727-499-7215

                    888-300-9789

                    www.gohtci.com



                    _____

                    From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of david jones
                    Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:43 AM
                    To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Using and Choosing Data Providers



                    Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained. There is no sense in
                    disclosing trade secrets.

                    Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@yahoo. <mailto:rmriinc%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: --- In
                    infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                    "Thomas Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > If nothing else, it suggests what NOT to put
                    > in a written
                    > > report.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way
                    of
                    > saying they lie

                    I will take some courses on how to omit facts from my reports... Thanks
                    for helping me to decide which continuing education courses might
                    benefit me best, Tom... ;o)

                    Rick.





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • david jones
                    I didn t say to violate privacy laws. In Florida, pretexting is legal so long as you do not pretend to represent yourself to be anyone employed by the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 18, 2007
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                      I didn't say to violate privacy laws. In Florida, pretexting is legal so long as you do not pretend to represent yourself to be anyone employed by the government: state, city, federal or otherwise and you have permissible use to do so. That will depend on what kind of case you are working on. The same goes for any other method you use to collect data. Using public records database or DMV records to cause service of process is legal in some states but in others, say, Pennsylvania it is not. The investigators in the HP "scandal" violated privacy laws by obtaining records they did not have permissible use to access.

                      Pretexting is a very valid way to collect information. You can collect information in five minutes on a phone that can take you hours to collect on the Internet, if you can even find it at all. Before you do it though, you should obviously make sure your not putting yourself in an actionable position.

                      Thomas Eskridge <TOM@...> wrote: http://pasco. <http://pasco.tbo.com/pasco/MGB5HT6FZ2F.html>
                      tbo.com/pasco/MGB5HT6FZ2F.html

                      Can you say pay the feds $110K for facts obtained..oh yeah ..it was via
                      pretexting.

                      Tom Eskridge, Chief Operations Officer

                      High Tech Crime Institute

                      28100 US Hwy 19 N, suite 204

                      Clearwater Florida 33761

                      727-499-7215

                      888-300-9789

                      www.gohtci.com

                      _____

                      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of david jones
                      Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:43 AM
                      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [infoguys-list] Re: Using and Choosing Data Providers

                      Facts are facts no matter how they are obtained. There is no sense in
                      disclosing trade secrets.

                      Ricky Gurley <rmriinc@yahoo. <mailto:rmriinc%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: --- In
                      infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                      "Thomas Eskridge" <TOM@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > If nothing else, it suggests what NOT to put
                      > in a written
                      > > report.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It sounds like the TRULY LICENSED people omit facts---kinda of a way
                      of
                      > saying they lie

                      I will take some courses on how to omit facts from my reports... Thanks
                      for helping me to decide which continuing education courses might
                      benefit me best, Tom... ;o)

                      Rick.

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