RE: [infoguys-list] Re: I have a question; for the former Law Enforcement P.I.s here.
- Oh I'm sure there are varied reasons to not get into that can of worms.
Let's look at demographics.
Texas is the second most populous state, 26 million people, but there are
very few really large cities.
Houston-largest 5 million.
Dallas/Fort Worth and all the mid-cities combined-3 million
San Antonio- 1 mil.
That's 9 million, so 15 million left and those folks all live in medium to
small towns of 25 thousand or less.
In a town that size, everyone knows everyone, there is no anonimity.
You are a lawyer in a small Texas town, where the police, despite their best
intentions, are not all that well trained or educated, where they are
underpaid but have status....you don't want to go screwing around needlessly
in their sandbox. A wise relative once told me there is nothing more
dangerous than an idiot with incentive. The incentive is to hang on to the
power, prestige and status that being a police officer has in Texas, which
Couple that with Judges that almost always came out of the DA's office
before they were elected and you've got a situation where if you really
don't have the goods, you better not jump into the ring in that area.
I believe in open government and I believe that there are times to just let
it all hang out and allow the shit to settle where it will.
I've worked cases in which it was necessary to call into question the
veracity and appropriateness of an officer's actions. It is difficult
because I am a former police officer and chief. Having said that, I've
nailed some to the wall, put some out of work and into jail, but it was
really ugly in the courtroom.
Brian K. Ingram, Owner
Consulting Investigation Services
Email Tracing/Internet &eBusiness Investigations
Forensic Data Recovery,
Catastrophic Event Investigations,
Major Case Criminal Defense
"Setting the New Standards in Private Investigations"
Texas P.I. License A-8429
School Approval Number: N-204 Instructor Approval Number: I-405
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com]
On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: I have a question; for the former Law
Enforcement P.I.s here.
--- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "C.I.S. Lists" <list@...> wrote:
Thank you; Brian. I think I am beginning to understand why some of
the attorneys I have dealt with did not do this.
Would you say that the decision to not do this might
be "strategical"; in the way of not wanting to do something that the
court might frown on?
> in some states, Texas included, disciplinary records are considered
> record, all you have to do is ask. There are limitations, Civil-service vs
> non-civil service, but a subpoena is a court order and is alwaysrecognized
> and honored..here at least.to
> If you came upon the records legally, there should be no impediment
> getting them admitted, but the judge may not allow the testimony orrecords
> based on probative value....do they lead to issues directly relatedto the
> case.sign and
> If you had a case in which a person is accused of running a stop
> the officer was disciplined for some type of policy or ruleviolation as it
> pertained to accurately writing a citation, that might beprobative. If the
> officer was disciplined for picking his nose in public that wouldnot be
> probative to the issues at hand in the stop sign violation case.picture.
> I know these examples are far fetched, but I'm trying to draw a
> If the officer was ever disciplined for drinking alcohol on duty,
> argue that is probative if your client says they smelled alcohol onhis
> breath when stopped etc...is not a
> Lawyers are careful when attacking the arresting officer if there
> clear cut violation or point at issue. The fishing expeditionusually
> doesn't happen in court, nor do judges allow it in most cases.yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-
> Brian K. Ingram, Owner
> Consulting Investigation Services
> Email Tracing/Internet &eBusiness Investigations
> Forensic Data Recovery,
> Catastrophic Event Investigations,
> Major Case Criminal Defense
> "Setting the New Standards in Private Investigations"
> Texas P.I. License A-8429
> School Approval Number: N-204 Instructor Approval Number: I-405
> From: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
list@yahoogroups. <mailto:list%40yahoogroups.com> com]
> On Behalf Of Ricky Gurleyyahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:35 PM
> To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [infoguys-list] I have a question; for the former LawEnforcement
> P.I.s here.they
> I have seen cases where a defendant claims that a Law Enforcement
> Officer "framed" them. Or just did something improper during a
> traffic stop or an arrest.
> I have had attorneys talk to me about this; and I often ask why
> don't subpoena the personnel files from the agency that the officerthese
> works with in an attempt to show infractions and/or disciplinary
> issues that could indicate that the officer has a history of said
> behavior. The response is always "that is not a bad idea"; and the
> attorney never does this.
> Is there some kind of a restriction on using a subpoena to get
> types of files admitted into court? It would seem to me that if Iinvestigator
> were the attorney; this would be one of the first things that I'd
> want to do. I know that this is not a popular line of questioning;
> but I believe that often times if you can discredit the
> or the officer testifying for the prosecution; you start to reallycase
> tilt the odds of winning a your case in your favor. Does any P.I.s
> here have any experience with this? Does any P.I. here know of a
> where the attorney they are working for has ever successfully useds
> subpoena in a situation like this?<http://rmriincspace <http://rmriincspace.spaces.live.com/>
> Look forward to your responses.
> Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
> "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
> MAIL BOX: 2101 W. Broadway PMB 326, Columbia, MO. 65203
> OFFICE ADDRESS: 607 N. Providence, Columbia, MO. 65203
> Phone: (888) 571-0958
> Fax: (877) 795-9800
> Cell: (573) 529-0808
> RMRI-Inc@mchsi. <mailto:RMRI-Inc%40mchsi.com> com
> http://www.rmriinc. <http://www.rmriinc. <http://www.rmriinc.com> com> com
> http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc. <http://rmriinc.blogspot.com/>blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]