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RE: [infoguys-list] Re: I have a question; for the former Law Enforcement P.I.s here.

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    Oh I m sure there are varied reasons to not get into that can of worms. Let s look at demographics. Texas is the second most populous state, 26 million people,
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 28, 2007
      Oh I'm sure there are varied reasons to not get into that can of worms.
      Let's look at demographics.
      Texas is the second most populous state, 26 million people, but there are
      very few really large cities.
      Houston-largest 5 million.
      Dallas/Fort Worth and all the mid-cities combined-3 million
      San Antonio- 1 mil.
      That's 9 million, so 15 million left and those folks all live in medium to
      small towns of 25 thousand or less.
      In a town that size, everyone knows everyone, there is no anonimity.

      You are a lawyer in a small Texas town, where the police, despite their best
      intentions, are not all that well trained or educated, where they are
      underpaid but have status....you don't want to go screwing around needlessly
      in their sandbox. A wise relative once told me there is nothing more
      dangerous than an idiot with incentive. The incentive is to hang on to the
      power, prestige and status that being a police officer has in Texas, which
      is considerable.

      Couple that with Judges that almost always came out of the DA's office
      before they were elected and you've got a situation where if you really
      don't have the goods, you better not jump into the ring in that area.
      I believe in open government and I believe that there are times to just let
      it all hang out and allow the shit to settle where it will.

      I've worked cases in which it was necessary to call into question the
      veracity and appropriateness of an officer's actions. It is difficult
      because I am a former police officer and chief. Having said that, I've
      nailed some to the wall, put some out of work and into jail, but it was
      really ugly in the courtroom.
      Brian K. Ingram, Owner
      Consulting Investigation Services
      Email Tracing/Internet &eBusiness Investigations
      Forensic Data Recovery,
      Catastrophic Event Investigations,
      Major Case Criminal Defense
      "Setting the New Standards in Private Investigations"
      brian@...
      www.cispi.net
      www.itraceemail.com
      Texas P.I. License A-8429
      972-937-3938
      School Approval Number: N-204 Instructor Approval Number: I-405




      _____

      From: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
      Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:32 PM
      To: infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [infoguys-list] Re: I have a question; for the former Law
      Enforcement P.I.s here.



      --- In infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com, "C.I.S. Lists" <list@...> wrote:

      Thank you; Brian. I think I am beginning to understand why some of
      the attorneys I have dealt with did not do this.

      Would you say that the decision to not do this might
      be "strategical"; in the way of not wanting to do something that the
      court might frown on?

      > Rick,
      > in some states, Texas included, disciplinary records are considered
      public
      > record, all you have to do is ask. There are limitations, Civil-
      service vs
      > non-civil service, but a subpoena is a court order and is always
      recognized
      > and honored..here at least.
      > If you came upon the records legally, there should be no impediment
      to
      > getting them admitted, but the judge may not allow the testimony or
      records
      > based on probative value....do they lead to issues directly related
      to the
      > case.
      >
      > If you had a case in which a person is accused of running a stop
      sign and
      > the officer was disciplined for some type of policy or rule
      violation as it
      > pertained to accurately writing a citation, that might be
      probative. If the
      > officer was disciplined for picking his nose in public that would
      not be
      > probative to the issues at hand in the stop sign violation case.
      > I know these examples are far fetched, but I'm trying to draw a
      picture.
      >
      > If the officer was ever disciplined for drinking alcohol on duty,
      you might
      > argue that is probative if your client says they smelled alcohol on
      his
      > breath when stopped etc...
      >
      > Lawyers are careful when attacking the arresting officer if there
      is not a
      > clear cut violation or point at issue. The fishing expedition
      usually
      > doesn't happen in court, nor do judges allow it in most cases.
      > Brian K. Ingram, Owner
      > Consulting Investigation Services
      > Email Tracing/Internet &eBusiness Investigations
      > Forensic Data Recovery,
      > Catastrophic Event Investigations,
      > Major Case Criminal Defense
      > "Setting the New Standards in Private Investigations"
      > brian@...
      > www.cispi.net
      > www.itraceemail.com
      > Texas P.I. License A-8429
      > 972-937-3938
      > School Approval Number: N-204 Instructor Approval Number: I-405
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com [mailto:infoguys-
      list@yahoogroups. <mailto:list%40yahoogroups.com> com]
      > On Behalf Of Ricky Gurley
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:35 PM
      > To: infoguys-list@ <mailto:infoguys-list%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [infoguys-list] I have a question; for the former Law
      Enforcement
      > P.I.s here.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I have seen cases where a defendant claims that a Law Enforcement
      > Officer "framed" them. Or just did something improper during a
      > traffic stop or an arrest.
      >
      > I have had attorneys talk to me about this; and I often ask why
      they
      > don't subpoena the personnel files from the agency that the officer
      > works with in an attempt to show infractions and/or disciplinary
      > issues that could indicate that the officer has a history of said
      > behavior. The response is always "that is not a bad idea"; and the
      > attorney never does this.
      >
      > Is there some kind of a restriction on using a subpoena to get
      these
      > types of files admitted into court? It would seem to me that if I
      > were the attorney; this would be one of the first things that I'd
      > want to do. I know that this is not a popular line of questioning;
      > but I believe that often times if you can discredit the
      investigator
      > or the officer testifying for the prosecution; you start to really
      > tilt the odds of winning a your case in your favor. Does any P.I.s
      > here have any experience with this? Does any P.I. here know of a
      case
      > where the attorney they are working for has ever successfully used
      s
      > subpoena in a situation like this?
      >
      > Look forward to your responses.
      >
      > Rick.
      >
      > Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
      > "He Who Forgets, Will Be Destined To Remember"
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