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Same Post; Different group: Telco Concerns In The PI Industry.

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  • Ricky Gurley
    I wanted to carry this thead forward to meet with a certain poster s incorrect information distribution on this topic. I posted this post below on another
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 1, 2007
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      I wanted to carry this thead forward to meet with a certain poster's
      incorrect information distribution on this topic. I posted this post
      below on another group, for some reason it has not gone through, yet.
      Well, most of the people on that other group are on here, this group
      is larger, and this post originated on this group and then seemed
      to "migrate" to another group.

      So, for the new P.I.s out there: Why SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222]
      PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER INFORMATION should not concern you in the least
      as far as gathering telco information goes.

      And the thing about SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER
      INFORMATION is.....................

      It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS OBTAINING
      THIS INFORMATION!

      This is similar to the Data Storage Protection Act that a few people
      misinterpreted as pertaining to individuals that own businesses, and
      have to abide by the standards set forth in the Data Storage
      Protection Act. I laughed my keister off when I found out that P.I.s
      were jumping through hoops to abide by these rules, when these rules
      only applied to ISPs and OSPs; and while the USA has standards like
      these standards, the Data Storage Protection Act is a set of
      standards set forth in the U.K., not the USA.

      NOW UNDERSTAND; I AM FULLY AWARE THAT THE FEDERAL STATUTE I AM
      POSTING ABOUT IS A UNITED STATES FEDERAL STATUTE. My statement above
      is merely an illustration of how incorrect information can affect our
      industry.

      Same here: SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] deals with Common Carriers
      (Telephone Companies), as can be seen here:

      In: SUBCHAPTER II—COMMON CARRIERS

      As can be seen here:

      TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5


      CHAPTER 5—WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION


      · SUBCHAPTER I—GENERAL PROVISIONS

      · SUBCHAPTER II—COMMON CARRIERS

      · SUBCHAPTER III—SPECIAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO RADIO

      · SUBCHAPTER IV—PROCEDURAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS

      · SUBCHAPTER V—PENAL PROVISIONS; FORFEITURES

      · SUBCHAPTER V-A—CABLE COMMUNICATIONS

      · SUBCHAPTER VI—MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS



      Under this title:

      TITLE 47


      TITLE 47—TELEGRAPHS, TELEPHONES, AND RADIOTELEGRAPHS

      · CHAPTER 1—TELEGRAPHS

      · CHAPTER 2—SUBMARINE CABLES

      · CHAPTER 3—RADIOTELEGRAPHS

      · CHAPTER 4—RADIO ACT OF 1927

      · CHAPTER 5—WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION

      · CHAPTER 6—COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITE SYSTEM

      · CHAPTER 7—CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS

      · CHAPTER 8—NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION
      ADMINISTRATION

      · CHAPTER 9—INTERCEPTION OF DIGITAL AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS

      · CHAPTER 10—LOCAL TV

      Folks, don't be fooled.... This has nothing to do with you as far as
      obtaining information goes. It has EVERYTHING to do with your phone
      company i.e. your "COMMON CARRIER" and what information the COMMON
      CARRIER MUST protect. It does not affirmatively mean that you can be
      prosecuted or sued under this act; it means YOUR CARRIER can.


      If you do not believe that, then look at this:

      TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part I > § 207
      |

      § 207. Recovery of damages

      Any person claiming to be damaged by any common carrier subject to
      the provisions of this chapter may either make complaint to the
      Commission as hereinafter provided for, or may bring suit for the
      recovery of the damages for which such common carrier may be liable
      under the provisions of this chapter, in any district court of the
      United States of competent jurisdiction; but such person shall not
      have the right to pursue both such remedies.


      Read it carefully folks: "or may bring suit for the recovery of the
      damages for which such common carrier may be liable under the
      provisions of this chapter". Understand that this provision penalizes
      the CARRIER; NOT THE CONSUMER!


      Back up and read ALL of it, not just one little snippit of
      it..........

      And for the record, I never "attacked" anyone, I merely responded to
      this "attack":

      "Rick -

      Perhaps you might want to start over. I'm too tired for your
      childish, new kid on the block, garbage."


      And that quote is WORD FOR WORD!


      Rick.




      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
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      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "suesarkis@..." <suesarkis@...>
      To: LegalResourcesGroup@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:21:52 AM
      Subject: Legal Resources Group PI Industry Concerns


      George -

      Having already answered this a few days ago on another list I will
      insert that response here. However, before being attacked I will
      emphasize that CNA has always been a tool primarily used as a lead.
      Leads tell you where to go to obtain the admissible evidence or to
      know the answer before the question is asked, etc. However, nothing
      can be held as "confidential" regardless of what statute says if you
      can prove that the relevant information is readily available in
      public records such as a phone book as one such example. Obviously
      such information was with the consent of the carrier's customer.
      There are probably hundreds of various sources.

      If you compare the language in the new Telephone Records Privacy bill
      that you are rightfully concerned about and compare it to the
      language in 47 USC 222 (f) they are almost identical. This is
      nothing new, it is just being revisited, reiterated and relocated.

      Although not an attorney, I sure have been a student of this issue
      for over 30 years. I'm going to lay out the history as I've always
      believed it to be. This is food for thought, not an argument.

      CNA has been CONFIDENTIAL by statute since 1934. No attorney can
      ever go into court with telephone information provided by an
      investigator and use that information without a legitimate foundation
      as evidence. It just couldn't happen by law if for no other reason
      than the "Best Evidence" rule.

      What our accomplishments have done through the years has been to
      afford the attorney-client with ample information to justify their
      need to SDT the records from the appropriate authority. When a rep
      comes in to "quash" the SDT, they have an inner energy based on
      confidential information that they know, or should know, they are not
      supposed to have to justify the need. Or, as previously stated,
      knowing the answers before asking the question.

      If Congress or your State legislature declares that something "shall
      be confidential without the written consent of the holder",
      regardless of how you and I obtained it in many BUT NOT ALL
      instances, our conduct is still an unlawful act. If you live in a
      State that has no laws about trash retrieval, for instance, you'd be
      protected I do believe. However, the information obtained would
      still be inadmissible without a lawful foundation being laid. Just
      because you found it and it looks like the real thing, doesn't mean
      it is. That's why the attorney would subpoena the records from the
      FCC lawfully engaged common carrier.

      Through the years we, as an industry, were previously quite
      discreet. Then all of a sudden comes the explosion of the Internet
      and all forms of common sense were laid to rest. People started
      selling their PRETEXT scripts (pretexting has always been unlawful in
      my career span under SEC. 45 of the FTCA as explained to us back in
      the mid '80's by a deputy US Atty), advertising on the Internet how
      they can crack any phone number and so on and so on and so on. The
      watchdogs out there (such as E.P.I.C.) started beating their drums
      and held a pow-wow. Congress is just redefining and placing the laws
      in more obvious locations.

      The definitions can be found at the end.

      COMMUNICATIONS ACT OF 1934 (as amended through the years)

      SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER INFORMATION.

      (a) In General.--Every telecommunications carrier has a duty to
      protect the confidentiality of proprietary information of, and
      relating to, other telecommunication carriers, equipment
      manufacturers, and customers, including telecommunication carriers
      reselling telecommunications services provided by a
      telecommunications carrier.
      (b) Confidentiality of Carrier Information. --A telecommunications
      carrier that receives or obtains proprietary information from another
      carrier for purposes of providing any telecommunications service
      shall use such information only for such purpose, and shall not use
      such information for its own marketing efforts.

      (c) Confidentiality of Customer Proprietary Network Information. --
      (1) Privacy requirements for telecommunications carriers.--Except
      as required by law or with the approval of the customer, a
      telecommunications carrier that receives or obtains customer
      proprietary network information by virtue of its provision of a
      telecommunications service shall only use, disclose, or permit access
      to individually identifiable customer proprietary network information
      in its provision of (A) the telecommunications service from which
      such information is derived, or (B) services necessary to, or used
      in, the provision of such telecommunications service, including the
      publishing of directories.
      (2) Disclosure on request by customers.-- A telecommunications
      carrier shall disclose customer proprietary network information, upon
      affirmative written request by the customer, to any person designated
      by the customer.
      (3) Aggregate customer information. --A telecommunications carrier
      that receives or obtains customer proprietary network information by
      virtue of its provision of a telecommunications service may use,
      disclose, or permit access to aggregate customer information other
      than for the purposes described in paragraph (1). A local exchange
      carrier may use, disclose, or permit access to aggregate customer
      information other than for purposes described in paragraph (1) only
      if it provides such aggregate information to other carriers or
      persons on reasonable and nondiscriminatory terms and conditions upon
      reasonable request therefor.
      (d) Exceptions.- -Nothing in this section prohibits a
      telecommunications carrier from using, disclosing, or permitting
      access to customer proprietary network information obtained from its
      customers, either directly or indirectly through its agents--
      (1) to initiate, render, bill, and collect for telecommunications
      services;
      (2) to protect the rights or property of the carrier, or to protect
      users of those services and other carriers from fraudulent, abusive,
      or unlawful use of, or subscription to, such services; or
      (3) to provide any inbound telemarketing, referral, or
      administrative services to the customer for the duration of the call,
      if such call was initiated by the customer and the customer approves
      of the use of such information to provide such service.
      (e) Subscriber List Information. --Notwithstandin g subsections (b),
      (c), and (d), a telecommunications carrier that provides telephone
      exchange service shall provide subscriber list information gathered
      in its capacity as a provider of such service on a timely and
      unbundled basis, under nondiscriminatory and reasonable rates, terms,
      and conditions, to any person upon request for the purpose of
      publishing directories in any format.

      (f) Definitions. --As used in this section:

      (1) Customer proprietary network information. --The term ''customer
      proprietary network information' ' means--
      (A) information that relates to the quantity, technical
      configuration, type, destination, and amount of use of a
      telecommunications service subscribed to by any customer of a
      telecommunications carrier, and that is made available to the carrier
      by the customer solely by virtue of the carrier-customer
      relationship; and
      (B) information contained in the bills pertaining to telephone
      exchange service or telephone toll service received by a customer of
      a carrier; except that such term does not include subscriber list
      information.

      (2) Aggregate information. --The term ''aggregate customer
      information' ' means collective data that relates to a group or
      category of services or customers, from which individual customer
      identities and characteristics have been removed.

      (3) Subscriber list information. --The term ''subscriber list
      information' ' means any information- -
      (A) identifying the listed names of subscribers of a carrier and
      such subscribers' telephone numbers, addresses, or primary
      advertising classifications (as such classifications are assigned at
      the time of the establishment of such service), or any combination of
      such listed names, numbers, addresses, or classifications; and
      (B) that the carrier or an affiliate has published, caused to be
      published, or accepted for publication in any directory format.



      Sincerely yours,
      Sue
      ____________ _________ ___
      Sue Sarkis
      Sarkis Detective Agency
      (est. 1976)
      PI 6564
      www.sarkispi. com

      1346 Ethel Street
      Glendale, CA 91207-1826
      818-242-2505
      818-242-9824 FAX

      If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English,
      thank a military veteran !
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