Same Post; Different group: Telco Concerns In The PI Industry.
- I wanted to carry this thead forward to meet with a certain poster's
incorrect information distribution on this topic. I posted this post
below on another group, for some reason it has not gone through, yet.
Well, most of the people on that other group are on here, this group
is larger, and this post originated on this group and then seemed
to "migrate" to another group.
So, for the new P.I.s out there: Why SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222]
PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER INFORMATION should not concern you in the least
as far as gathering telco information goes.
And the thing about SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER
It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS OBTAINING
This is similar to the Data Storage Protection Act that a few people
misinterpreted as pertaining to individuals that own businesses, and
have to abide by the standards set forth in the Data Storage
Protection Act. I laughed my keister off when I found out that P.I.s
were jumping through hoops to abide by these rules, when these rules
only applied to ISPs and OSPs; and while the USA has standards like
these standards, the Data Storage Protection Act is a set of
standards set forth in the U.K., not the USA.
NOW UNDERSTAND; I AM FULLY AWARE THAT THE FEDERAL STATUTE I AM
POSTING ABOUT IS A UNITED STATES FEDERAL STATUTE. My statement above
is merely an illustration of how incorrect information can affect our
Same here: SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] deals with Common Carriers
(Telephone Companies), as can be seen here:
In: SUBCHAPTER IICOMMON CARRIERS
As can be seen here:
TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5
CHAPTER 5WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION
· SUBCHAPTER IGENERAL PROVISIONS
· SUBCHAPTER IICOMMON CARRIERS
· SUBCHAPTER IIISPECIAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO RADIO
· SUBCHAPTER IVPROCEDURAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS
· SUBCHAPTER VPENAL PROVISIONS; FORFEITURES
· SUBCHAPTER V-ACABLE COMMUNICATIONS
· SUBCHAPTER VIMISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS
Under this title:
TITLE 47TELEGRAPHS, TELEPHONES, AND RADIOTELEGRAPHS
· CHAPTER 1TELEGRAPHS
· CHAPTER 2SUBMARINE CABLES
· CHAPTER 3RADIOTELEGRAPHS
· CHAPTER 4RADIO ACT OF 1927
· CHAPTER 5WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION
· CHAPTER 6COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITE SYSTEM
· CHAPTER 7CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS
· CHAPTER 8NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION
· CHAPTER 9INTERCEPTION OF DIGITAL AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS
· CHAPTER 10LOCAL TV
Folks, don't be fooled.... This has nothing to do with you as far as
obtaining information goes. It has EVERYTHING to do with your phone
company i.e. your "COMMON CARRIER" and what information the COMMON
CARRIER MUST protect. It does not affirmatively mean that you can be
prosecuted or sued under this act; it means YOUR CARRIER can.
If you do not believe that, then look at this:
TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part I > § 207
§ 207. Recovery of damages
Any person claiming to be damaged by any common carrier subject to
the provisions of this chapter may either make complaint to the
Commission as hereinafter provided for, or may bring suit for the
recovery of the damages for which such common carrier may be liable
under the provisions of this chapter, in any district court of the
United States of competent jurisdiction; but such person shall not
have the right to pursue both such remedies.
Read it carefully folks: "or may bring suit for the recovery of the
damages for which such common carrier may be liable under the
provisions of this chapter". Understand that this provision penalizes
the CARRIER; NOT THE CONSUMER!
Back up and read ALL of it, not just one little snippit of
And for the record, I never "attacked" anyone, I merely responded to
Perhaps you might want to start over. I'm too tired for your
childish, new kid on the block, garbage."
And that quote is WORD FOR WORD!
Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
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----- Original Message ----
From: "suesarkis@..." <suesarkis@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:21:52 AM
Subject: Legal Resources Group PI Industry Concerns
Having already answered this a few days ago on another list I will
insert that response here. However, before being attacked I will
emphasize that CNA has always been a tool primarily used as a lead.
Leads tell you where to go to obtain the admissible evidence or to
know the answer before the question is asked, etc. However, nothing
can be held as "confidential" regardless of what statute says if you
can prove that the relevant information is readily available in
public records such as a phone book as one such example. Obviously
such information was with the consent of the carrier's customer.
There are probably hundreds of various sources.
If you compare the language in the new Telephone Records Privacy bill
that you are rightfully concerned about and compare it to the
language in 47 USC 222 (f) they are almost identical. This is
nothing new, it is just being revisited, reiterated and relocated.
Although not an attorney, I sure have been a student of this issue
for over 30 years. I'm going to lay out the history as I've always
believed it to be. This is food for thought, not an argument.
CNA has been CONFIDENTIAL by statute since 1934. No attorney can
ever go into court with telephone information provided by an
investigator and use that information without a legitimate foundation
as evidence. It just couldn't happen by law if for no other reason
than the "Best Evidence" rule.
What our accomplishments have done through the years has been to
afford the attorney-client with ample information to justify their
need to SDT the records from the appropriate authority. When a rep
comes in to "quash" the SDT, they have an inner energy based on
confidential information that they know, or should know, they are not
supposed to have to justify the need. Or, as previously stated,
knowing the answers before asking the question.
If Congress or your State legislature declares that something "shall
be confidential without the written consent of the holder",
regardless of how you and I obtained it in many BUT NOT ALL
instances, our conduct is still an unlawful act. If you live in a
State that has no laws about trash retrieval, for instance, you'd be
protected I do believe. However, the information obtained would
still be inadmissible without a lawful foundation being laid. Just
because you found it and it looks like the real thing, doesn't mean
it is. That's why the attorney would subpoena the records from the
FCC lawfully engaged common carrier.
Through the years we, as an industry, were previously quite
discreet. Then all of a sudden comes the explosion of the Internet
and all forms of common sense were laid to rest. People started
selling their PRETEXT scripts (pretexting has always been unlawful in
my career span under SEC. 45 of the FTCA as explained to us back in
the mid '80's by a deputy US Atty), advertising on the Internet how
they can crack any phone number and so on and so on and so on. The
watchdogs out there (such as E.P.I.C.) started beating their drums
and held a pow-wow. Congress is just redefining and placing the laws
in more obvious locations.
The definitions can be found at the end.
COMMUNICATIONS ACT OF 1934 (as amended through the years)
SEC. 222. [47 U.S.C. 222] PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER INFORMATION.
(a) In General.--Every telecommunications carrier has a duty to
protect the confidentiality of proprietary information of, and
relating to, other telecommunication carriers, equipment
manufacturers, and customers, including telecommunication carriers
reselling telecommunications services provided by a
(b) Confidentiality of Carrier Information. --A telecommunications
carrier that receives or obtains proprietary information from another
carrier for purposes of providing any telecommunications service
shall use such information only for such purpose, and shall not use
such information for its own marketing efforts.
(c) Confidentiality of Customer Proprietary Network Information. --
(1) Privacy requirements for telecommunications carriers.--Except
as required by law or with the approval of the customer, a
telecommunications carrier that receives or obtains customer
proprietary network information by virtue of its provision of a
telecommunications service shall only use, disclose, or permit access
to individually identifiable customer proprietary network information
in its provision of (A) the telecommunications service from which
such information is derived, or (B) services necessary to, or used
in, the provision of such telecommunications service, including the
publishing of directories.
(2) Disclosure on request by customers.-- A telecommunications
carrier shall disclose customer proprietary network information, upon
affirmative written request by the customer, to any person designated
by the customer.
(3) Aggregate customer information. --A telecommunications carrier
that receives or obtains customer proprietary network information by
virtue of its provision of a telecommunications service may use,
disclose, or permit access to aggregate customer information other
than for the purposes described in paragraph (1). A local exchange
carrier may use, disclose, or permit access to aggregate customer
information other than for purposes described in paragraph (1) only
if it provides such aggregate information to other carriers or
persons on reasonable and nondiscriminatory terms and conditions upon
reasonable request therefor.
(d) Exceptions.- -Nothing in this section prohibits a
telecommunications carrier from using, disclosing, or permitting
access to customer proprietary network information obtained from its
customers, either directly or indirectly through its agents--
(1) to initiate, render, bill, and collect for telecommunications
(2) to protect the rights or property of the carrier, or to protect
users of those services and other carriers from fraudulent, abusive,
or unlawful use of, or subscription to, such services; or
(3) to provide any inbound telemarketing, referral, or
administrative services to the customer for the duration of the call,
if such call was initiated by the customer and the customer approves
of the use of such information to provide such service.
(e) Subscriber List Information. --Notwithstandin g subsections (b),
(c), and (d), a telecommunications carrier that provides telephone
exchange service shall provide subscriber list information gathered
in its capacity as a provider of such service on a timely and
unbundled basis, under nondiscriminatory and reasonable rates, terms,
and conditions, to any person upon request for the purpose of
publishing directories in any format.
(f) Definitions. --As used in this section:
(1) Customer proprietary network information. --The term ''customer
proprietary network information' ' means--
(A) information that relates to the quantity, technical
configuration, type, destination, and amount of use of a
telecommunications service subscribed to by any customer of a
telecommunications carrier, and that is made available to the carrier
by the customer solely by virtue of the carrier-customer
(B) information contained in the bills pertaining to telephone
exchange service or telephone toll service received by a customer of
a carrier; except that such term does not include subscriber list
(2) Aggregate information. --The term ''aggregate customer
information' ' means collective data that relates to a group or
category of services or customers, from which individual customer
identities and characteristics have been removed.
(3) Subscriber list information. --The term ''subscriber list
information' ' means any information- -
(A) identifying the listed names of subscribers of a carrier and
such subscribers' telephone numbers, addresses, or primary
advertising classifications (as such classifications are assigned at
the time of the establishment of such service), or any combination of
such listed names, numbers, addresses, or classifications; and
(B) that the carrier or an affiliate has published, caused to be
published, or accepted for publication in any directory format.
____________ _________ ___
Sarkis Detective Agency
1346 Ethel Street
Glendale, CA 91207-1826
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