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11615Re: Los Angeles, CA

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  • Ricky Gurley
    Dec 1, 2007
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      --- In infoguys-list@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hrodey <rth@...> wrote:

      Now Bob... According to Kirsti, all of this stuff below is
      inappropriate.. Or, Kirsti, since Bob posted; is this now an
      appropriate conversation?

      Anyway, great points, Bob. As always.

      Happy Holidays to ya.



      > Empire Pacific Investigative wrote:
      > > Thank you for replying, but it seems like you are in the
      wonderland. If you work with the insurance industry, which I have
      been since 1987, there isn't any insurance company that pay's more
      then $ 75.00 Dollars an hour and to top it off, they don't pay for
      travel time.
      > >
      >
      > Somebody is obviously living in wonderland but I'm not sure who, Mike.
      > If you get into bed with dogs, you will wake up with fleas. Perhaps
      > your problem is spending too much time relying on the insurance
      industry
      > to make your monthly nut. Granted, most of my work is plaintiff
      > oriented but I have a couple LARGE insurance defense law firms who use
      > me - almost exclusively on their pet cases. I bill my normal rate and
      > they do not hesitate to send me out to do interviews, etc. in areas
      > where they KNOW up front that they will be paying 7 hours of windshield
      > time for a 1-2 hours interview.
      >
      > Lest you argue that "that's different, you're working for outside
      > counsel," I will grant you that. However, I also get calls DIRECT from
      > the claims superintendents -based upon my past successes and work
      direct
      > for the insurance company at the same or higher rate.
      >
      >
      > > Yes, we are deserve lot more for our work, but the reality is,
      competion and insurance companies know it. The profit margin is
      extremly low when you sub at $ 30.00 an hour after your time, office
      fees, marketing, employees, WC insurance and other fees going a long
      with it.
      > >
      >
      > Then you're doing it wrong. Like Sue and Rick, when I see requests for
      > "sub-contractors" at $25-$50/hour who are required to be licensed,
      > insured, etc. I laugh. I also believe that in such a case, your
      > argument about WC expense, employees, etc. have no place in the
      > equation. If I conform to your needs with regard to licensing, etc.
      > _I_ am the one incurring the expense of WC, insurance, admin, mileage,
      > etc. NOT you. If you are billing $75 and paying me $30 (Ain't gonna
      > happen, Mike, even if you were being paid $31/hour by your client<g>)
      > you - and others like you - are part of the problem, not the solution.
      >
      > Who do you think you're fooling? You can't be all things to all people
      > and if your pet insurance client in CA asks you to undertake an
      > investigation in, say, Nevada, they know or should know that you aren't
      > going to be the one doing it. If you take it on for the same rate as
      > always, they can form a couple of impressions:
      >
      > a) you're ripping them since you obviously can hire somebody else to do
      > it cheaper than you're charging and still make a buck (which will
      really
      > help you when you try to raise your rates crying poor mouth<g>)
      >
      > or
      >
      > b) you're managing the case for nothing and paying everything to the
      sub.
      >
      > How much better would it be to say, "Fine, you want an investigation in
      > an area that I don't cover? We can approach this two ways: 1) As a
      > favor to you, I'll try to hook you up direct with a qualified
      > investigator out there and put the two of you together, or 2) If you
      > wish I will find a qualified investigator who bills at my rate or close
      > to it and also manage the investigation from here at my regular hourly
      > rate."
      >
      > > The only PI's out there that are charging over $ 100.00 Dollars in
      California are not more then a dozen that have several employees
      working for them and continuous work coming in with that rate.
      > >
      >
      > That might be but again, the reason for this is that folks like you
      will
      > do their bidding for whatever they want to pay.
      >
      > I attended a meeting of the WI state association a number of years
      ago.
      > One of the presenters was from the State Public Defenders office. I
      > rarely do criminal defense work and would probably NEVER do it for the
      > PD. At the time and this was probably less than nine years ago, they
      > were discussing the problem with the state pd being slow to pay. They
      > were paying these guys $18/hour and $0.21/mile in those days (by
      > comparison, IIRC, I was billing $80/hour and $0.40 or $0.45/mile) and
      > the rub was that they had to wait in excess of five months after
      > submitting their bills and having them approved by the court to get
      > their money.
      >
      > My solution was simple - take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no!"
      >
      > Insurance companies are notoriously cheap - everybody knows that - and
      > they force their claims folks (most of whom are good people and know
      > where the Bear S**t in the Buckwheat" to parrot the company line. I
      had
      > a claims supt from a VERY large national insurance company call to
      > compliment me on a slip and fall case I handled for them on a
      commercial
      > property where they were looking at a settlement cost in excess of
      > $125,000 and a potential jury verdict if they rolled the dice of maybe
      > $300K or better. I crushed the plaintiff's case and also obtained
      > statements from witnesses who were friends of the plaintiff who also
      > heard the plaintiff state IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ATTORNEY that the
      claim
      > was fraudulent. Case went from Fortune Cookie status to a pile of dog
      > crap or worse in two interviews.
      >
      > Claims Supt did not say one word about my hourly rate - $80/h at that
      > time - but took issue with my mileage charge of $0.40/mi vs what the
      > insurance company pays which she claimed was $0.28/mi. I closed the
      > conversation by telling her that I thought it was unusual to save
      > somebody over $100,000 and have them complain about something so
      trivial
      > as the mileage charge in that the total difference in the bill HAD I
      > knuckled under to her would be about $6.50. If it bothers you, don't
      > ever call me again but you WILL pay what I bill.
      >
      > I have this sign on the wall in my office. Garfield the Cat is sitting
      > back in his easy chair and the caption reads "My Office, My Rules!"
      > Words to live by.
      >
      > >
      > > Anyway, don't have time to write anymore, which I would love to
      continue, but the reallity is there are lot's of people out there that
      are great and are getting paid less then $30.00 an hour.
      >
      > They may be great investigators, I'm not arguing that but they are very
      > poor businessmen and, quite likely, very poor period!
      >
      > --
      >
      > Enjoy,
      >
      > Bob
      > ________________________________________________________________
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      >


      Rick.

      Risk Management Research & Investments, Inc.
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