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Re:Waldorf schools

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  • lbb116
    Tyler..... I saw this post asking about information on Waldorf. My daughter has just spent a year and a half at a Waldorf school. We left public school after
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
      Tyler.....

      I saw this post asking about information on Waldorf. My daughter has
      just spent a year and a half at a Waldorf school. We left public
      school after 1st grade because she was miserable. The school system
      was very over crowded and she, being an indigo, had very strong
      opinions about how she should be taught. It didn't go over too well
      with her 1st grade teacher. The principal got to know my daughter
      really well.

      After visiting the indigochild.com site and saw that waldorf and
      montessori schools might be a good alternative, we applied to
      Montessori, but there weren't any openings. After visiting Waldorf,
      it seemed it might be a good fit. We knew up front that they delayed
      teaching reading unitl 2nd grade. This didn't concern us since, she
      was a strong reader -- already tested to be reading at the 3rd grade
      level.
      We liked that they had a morning recess after snack and an afternoon
      recess after lunch every day. At her old school lunch was at 10:30!!!
      They very often didn't get recess. She would have handwork class where
      she learned to knit. So far, she's knitted a cat, a horse and a flute
      case. She would have russian and german classes. PE seemed to be in
      the form of a movement class called eurythmy. Language arts, writing,
      history, and math seemed to be rolled up into one block called "main
      lesson". Math was on the schedule only once a week. When I
      questioned this, I was told that they had a "holistic" approach to
      math and it was "folded" into the whole curriculum. Even so, after
      the rushed, over-the-top, pushed down curriculum of public school,
      this seemed to be a kinder, gentler approach to education. Like we
      remembered when we were in grade school. It felt like we were giving
      her childhood back to her.

      The first several months was a big adjustment for her. They have a
      policy about keeping the outside out of school. No character based
      clothing, lunch boxes and no black clothing. They even encourage
      parents to get rid of the TV. That meant she couldn't wear her beloved
      light-up sneakers or bring her Barbie lunchbox to school. She also
      endured quite a bit of teasing and friction from the other kids
      (mostly from a few boys). They delighted in pointing out everytime
      she did something wrong. Slowly she adapted, let go of all the pent
      up anger from 1st grade and began making friends and fitting in. It
      is to the credit of the school and the parents that everyone stood by
      her and refused to let the teasing go unnoticed or uncorrected. She
      loved the school, however we became very concerned that her teacher
      was unqualified (she had absolutely no teaching credentials or
      experience), and the curriculum was a little too lax. There are no
      text books, the children copy off the blackboard into their "main
      lesson" books, using crayons at first and then moving to pencils. At
      the end of the chaotic year, many parents were on the fence about
      returning, as were we. Two actually did not. We did reluctantly, we
      felt we had no other alternative, Montessori would not have any
      openings until the 4th grade. We did not want to put her back in
      public schools. So we returned this school year with much misgivings
      and apprehension. The teacher still did not have control of the
      class, several boys were ADD and she could not handle them.

      In October, we visited the local Montessori. My daughter met with the
      4th grade teacher, at my request, to determine where she was
      academically and how much catch-up we'd have to do to get her ready
      for the 4th grade. We were told she "would not be a good fit". We
      then had her tested at Huntington Learning Center. She was 1 1/2
      years behind academically. She was behind in reading comprehension
      and mathematics. She was struggling with not only multiplication but
      subtraction (multi-digit with borrowing).

      After getting that grim news, we made the decision to contract with
      Huntington to tutor her in reading and math. According to their
      evaluation it will take approx. 153 hours to bring her up to speed.
      So We've withdrawn her from Waldorf. She'll go to Huntington in the
      mornings for 2 hours every day Mon-Fri and I'll homeschool her in the
      rest of the 3rd grade curriculum ... spelling, cursive, science,
      social studies.

      We are not the only parents who pulled their kids out of Waldorf
      because of lack of academics. The parents that pulled their kids out
      of her class last year did it because of academics or lack of.
      Waldorf sounds good on paper and at visitation. But the fact is the
      kids simply aren't getting the basics when they need them. I talked
      to the all-girls middle school where Waldorf girls are supposed to
      matriculate in 5th grade and I was told that they have to be "caught
      up in math." The Admissions director told me this.

      This is something to be aware of and consider if you are looking at
      Waldorf.

      Lorie

      BTW, it will cost us as much as a full years tuition at Waldorf to
      have Huntington tutor her. We chose to do this because all their
      teachers are certified and accredited. And, they are experienced in
      bringing kids up to speed. Waldorf has been a very expensive lesson
      for all of us.


      --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, tyler Mazzeo <tylermazzeo@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Lily, thank you for your very encouraging email. I am intensly
      interested to know more about the waldorf schools. If it is not too
      much trouble for you, would you mind telling me a little bit about the
      kinds of things your daughter has learned at the Waldorf school? How
      much is tuition a year at the Waldorf schools? I have no doubt that
      they produce fine individuals, but are there statistics about success
      rates or what Waldorf graduates do?
      > I word in an impoverished community, 100% free lunch, 98%
      hispanic, many many immigrants. However, my 11 year old students have
      developed curriculum ideas, vocabulary models, learning heirarchies
      and charts that express more intelligence than anything I have yet
      seen produced by educators. The human potential is untapped where I
      work and the violence and subjegation is criminal, but becuase it is
      the status quo, nobody can see the naked empress.
      > By the way, my personal classroom homepage has as its username,
      Artemis.
      > THanks again for the uplifting note, I really feel alone in my
      opinions and endeavors, maybe I am not as alone as I think, Sincerly ty
      >
      > Lily <artemis@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
      call rates.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Lily
      Greetings, As the parent of a 14 year Waldorf Student I feel the need to reply to this letter about the lack of academics in Waldorf education. It simply
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 1, 2007
        Greetings,

        As the parent of a 14 year Waldorf Student I feel the need to reply to this
        letter about the lack of academics in Waldorf education. It simply isn't true.
        It is just that the academics are hidden (so to speak) in the lower grades.
        Reading isn't stressed in the lower grades either and it is because different
        students "get" reading at widely different ages. For example, my daughter
        didn't really read, couldn't, until seventh grade, 13 years-old. Today she is
        a senior with a B+ average in a Waldorf high school that is considered to be an
        "honors" program (whatever that means) and colleges are dying to get her.

        The waldorf program is designed around developmental needs, not societal or
        parental needs. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying that "imagination stops
        once a child starts to read" and I believe it is because they are getting
        someone else's ideas and pictures of reality instead of making up their own.

        My daughters friends, some who have been in the same class with her for 14
        years, are some of the finest, brightest, kindist, self-motivated and
        intelligent people I've ever met and they will save the world.

        A parents (or teacher's) job is not to impart information to their child, their
        job is to clear away distractions (TV, bad food, pressure, worry,etc.) so that
        they can discover what they already know. And each child is different and
        Waldorf respects, honors and loves that individuality in all it's wonderous
        forms.

        A good book is "You are your child's first teacher" by Rahima Baldwin.

        Don't compare Waldorf/Steiner schools to other school systems, there is no
        comparison.

        As a parent, past teacher & staff member of a Waldorf school I have learned as
        much from the experience as has my beautiful daughter and her outstanding class
        and schoolmates.

        Namaste,

        Lily


        Quoting lbb116 <lorie_b@...>:

        > Tyler.....
        >
        > I saw this post asking about information on Waldorf. My daughter has
        > just spent a year and a half at a Waldorf school. We left public
        > school after 1st grade because she was miserable. The school system
        > was very over crowded and she, being an indigo, had very strong
        > opinions about how she should be taught. It didn't go over too well
        > with her 1st grade teacher. The principal got to know my daughter
        > really well.
        >
        > After visiting the indigochild.com site and saw that waldorf and
        > montessori schools might be a good alternative, we applied to
        > Montessori, but there weren't any openings. After visiting Waldorf,
        > it seemed it might be a good fit. We knew up front that they delayed
        > teaching reading unitl 2nd grade. This didn't concern us since, she
        > was a strong reader -- already tested to be reading at the 3rd grade
        > level.
        > We liked that they had a morning recess after snack and an afternoon
        > recess after lunch every day. At her old school lunch was at 10:30!!!
        > They very often didn't get recess. She would have handwork class where
        > she learned to knit. So far, she's knitted a cat, a horse and a flute
        > case. She would have russian and german classes. PE seemed to be in
        > the form of a movement class called eurythmy. Language arts, writing,
        > history, and math seemed to be rolled up into one block called "main
        > lesson". Math was on the schedule only once a week. When I
        > questioned this, I was told that they had a "holistic" approach to
        > math and it was "folded" into the whole curriculum. Even so, after
        > the rushed, over-the-top, pushed down curriculum of public school,
        > this seemed to be a kinder, gentler approach to education. Like we
        > remembered when we were in grade school. It felt like we were giving
        > her childhood back to her.
        >
        > The first several months was a big adjustment for her. They have a
        > policy about keeping the outside out of school. No character based
        > clothing, lunch boxes and no black clothing. They even encourage
        > parents to get rid of the TV. That meant she couldn't wear her beloved
        > light-up sneakers or bring her Barbie lunchbox to school. She also
        > endured quite a bit of teasing and friction from the other kids
        > (mostly from a few boys). They delighted in pointing out everytime
        > she did something wrong. Slowly she adapted, let go of all the pent
        > up anger from 1st grade and began making friends and fitting in. It
        > is to the credit of the school and the parents that everyone stood by
        > her and refused to let the teasing go unnoticed or uncorrected. She
        > loved the school, however we became very concerned that her teacher
        > was unqualified (she had absolutely no teaching credentials or
        > experience), and the curriculum was a little too lax. There are no
        > text books, the children copy off the blackboard into their "main
        > lesson" books, using crayons at first and then moving to pencils. At
        > the end of the chaotic year, many parents were on the fence about
        > returning, as were we. Two actually did not. We did reluctantly, we
        > felt we had no other alternative, Montessori would not have any
        > openings until the 4th grade. We did not want to put her back in
        > public schools. So we returned this school year with much misgivings
        > and apprehension. The teacher still did not have control of the
        > class, several boys were ADD and she could not handle them.
        >
        > In October, we visited the local Montessori. My daughter met with the
        > 4th grade teacher, at my request, to determine where she was
        > academically and how much catch-up we'd have to do to get her ready
        > for the 4th grade. We were told she "would not be a good fit". We
        > then had her tested at Huntington Learning Center. She was 1 1/2
        > years behind academically. She was behind in reading comprehension
        > and mathematics. She was struggling with not only multiplication but
        > subtraction (multi-digit with borrowing).
        >
        > After getting that grim news, we made the decision to contract with
        > Huntington to tutor her in reading and math. According to their
        > evaluation it will take approx. 153 hours to bring her up to speed.
        > So We've withdrawn her from Waldorf. She'll go to Huntington in the
        > mornings for 2 hours every day Mon-Fri and I'll homeschool her in the
        > rest of the 3rd grade curriculum ... spelling, cursive, science,
        > social studies.
        >
        > We are not the only parents who pulled their kids out of Waldorf
        > because of lack of academics. The parents that pulled their kids out
        > of her class last year did it because of academics or lack of.
        > Waldorf sounds good on paper and at visitation. But the fact is the
        > kids simply aren't getting the basics when they need them. I talked
        > to the all-girls middle school where Waldorf girls are supposed to
        > matriculate in 5th grade and I was told that they have to be "caught
        > up in math." The Admissions director told me this.
        >
        > This is something to be aware of and consider if you are looking at
        > Waldorf.
        >
        > Lorie
        >
        > BTW, it will cost us as much as a full years tuition at Waldorf to
        > have Huntington tutor her. We chose to do this because all their
        > teachers are certified and accredited. And, they are experienced in
        > bringing kids up to speed. Waldorf has been a very expensive lesson
        > for all of us.
        >
        >
        > --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, tyler Mazzeo <tylermazzeo@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Lily, thank you for your very encouraging email. I am intensly
        > interested to know more about the waldorf schools. If it is not too
        > much trouble for you, would you mind telling me a little bit about the
        > kinds of things your daughter has learned at the Waldorf school? How
        > much is tuition a year at the Waldorf schools? I have no doubt that
        > they produce fine individuals, but are there statistics about success
        > rates or what Waldorf graduates do?
        > > I word in an impoverished community, 100% free lunch, 98%
        > hispanic, many many immigrants. However, my 11 year old students have
        > developed curriculum ideas, vocabulary models, learning heirarchies
        > and charts that express more intelligence than anything I have yet
        > seen produced by educators. The human potential is untapped where I
        > work and the violence and subjegation is criminal, but becuase it is
        > the status quo, nobody can see the naked empress.
        > > By the way, my personal classroom homepage has as its username,
        > Artemis.
        > > THanks again for the uplifting note, I really feel alone in my
        > opinions and endeavors, maybe I am not as alone as I think, Sincerly ty
        > >
        > > Lily <artemis@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
        > call rates.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        Namaste,

        Lily
      • Lily
        Tyler, Waldorf schools in the U.S. are very expensive but most do offer some form of tuition assistance. I never knew from year to year how we were going to
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 1, 2007
          Tyler,

          Waldorf schools in the U.S. are very expensive but most do offer some form of
          tuition assistance. I never knew from year to year how we were going to pay
          for it, but blieveing it to be the best school for all of us, we have managed
          it and my daughter graduates this spring (and is paying for her own college,
          thank you very much). We felt that with a quality primary and secondary
          education under her belt she would be prepared for whatever the world threw at
          her.

          There are Waldorf-type charter and public schools about and more staring every
          day so look for those.

          AWSNA (Association of Waldorf Schools of North America) has a website that will
          lead to lots of Waldorf info. They do not however list public waldorf
          schools.

          Start your own.... Homeschool - there are Waldorf circulum out there. Get a
          few families together and run your own class (homeschooling together) and hire
          a qualified Waldorf teacher to teach. That worked very well for a friend.

          It's all about priorities - if your child's education is a priority, you will
          find a way.

          Namaste,

          Lily


          Quoting lbb116 <lorie_b@...>:

          > Tyler.....
          >
          > I saw this post asking about information on Waldorf. My daughter has
          > just spent a year and a half at a Waldorf school. We left public
          > school after 1st grade because she was miserable. The school system
          > was very over crowded and she, being an indigo, had very strong
          > opinions about how she should be taught. It didn't go over too well
          > with her 1st grade teacher. The principal got to know my daughter
          > really well.
          >
          > After visiting the indigochild.com site and saw that waldorf and
          > montessori schools might be a good alternative, we applied to
          > Montessori, but there weren't any openings. After visiting Waldorf,
          > it seemed it might be a good fit. We knew up front that they delayed
          > teaching reading unitl 2nd grade. This didn't concern us since, she
          > was a strong reader -- already tested to be reading at the 3rd grade
          > level.
          > We liked that they had a morning recess after snack and an afternoon
          > recess after lunch every day. At her old school lunch was at 10:30!!!
          > They very often didn't get recess. She would have handwork class where
          > she learned to knit. So far, she's knitted a cat, a horse and a flute
          > case. She would have russian and german classes. PE seemed to be in
          > the form of a movement class called eurythmy. Language arts, writing,
          > history, and math seemed to be rolled up into one block called "main
          > lesson". Math was on the schedule only once a week. When I
          > questioned this, I was told that they had a "holistic" approach to
          > math and it was "folded" into the whole curriculum. Even so, after
          > the rushed, over-the-top, pushed down curriculum of public school,
          > this seemed to be a kinder, gentler approach to education. Like we
          > remembered when we were in grade school. It felt like we were giving
          > her childhood back to her.
          >
          > The first several months was a big adjustment for her. They have a
          > policy about keeping the outside out of school. No character based
          > clothing, lunch boxes and no black clothing. They even encourage
          > parents to get rid of the TV. That meant she couldn't wear her beloved
          > light-up sneakers or bring her Barbie lunchbox to school. She also
          > endured quite a bit of teasing and friction from the other kids
          > (mostly from a few boys). They delighted in pointing out everytime
          > she did something wrong. Slowly she adapted, let go of all the pent
          > up anger from 1st grade and began making friends and fitting in. It
          > is to the credit of the school and the parents that everyone stood by
          > her and refused to let the teasing go unnoticed or uncorrected. She
          > loved the school, however we became very concerned that her teacher
          > was unqualified (she had absolutely no teaching credentials or
          > experience), and the curriculum was a little too lax. There are no
          > text books, the children copy off the blackboard into their "main
          > lesson" books, using crayons at first and then moving to pencils. At
          > the end of the chaotic year, many parents were on the fence about
          > returning, as were we. Two actually did not. We did reluctantly, we
          > felt we had no other alternative, Montessori would not have any
          > openings until the 4th grade. We did not want to put her back in
          > public schools. So we returned this school year with much misgivings
          > and apprehension. The teacher still did not have control of the
          > class, several boys were ADD and she could not handle them.
          >
          > In October, we visited the local Montessori. My daughter met with the
          > 4th grade teacher, at my request, to determine where she was
          > academically and how much catch-up we'd have to do to get her ready
          > for the 4th grade. We were told she "would not be a good fit". We
          > then had her tested at Huntington Learning Center. She was 1 1/2
          > years behind academically. She was behind in reading comprehension
          > and mathematics. She was struggling with not only multiplication but
          > subtraction (multi-digit with borrowing).
          >
          > After getting that grim news, we made the decision to contract with
          > Huntington to tutor her in reading and math. According to their
          > evaluation it will take approx. 153 hours to bring her up to speed.
          > So We've withdrawn her from Waldorf. She'll go to Huntington in the
          > mornings for 2 hours every day Mon-Fri and I'll homeschool her in the
          > rest of the 3rd grade curriculum ... spelling, cursive, science,
          > social studies.
          >
          > We are not the only parents who pulled their kids out of Waldorf
          > because of lack of academics. The parents that pulled their kids out
          > of her class last year did it because of academics or lack of.
          > Waldorf sounds good on paper and at visitation. But the fact is the
          > kids simply aren't getting the basics when they need them. I talked
          > to the all-girls middle school where Waldorf girls are supposed to
          > matriculate in 5th grade and I was told that they have to be "caught
          > up in math." The Admissions director told me this.
          >
          > This is something to be aware of and consider if you are looking at
          > Waldorf.
          >
          > Lorie
          >
          > BTW, it will cost us as much as a full years tuition at Waldorf to
          > have Huntington tutor her. We chose to do this because all their
          > teachers are certified and accredited. And, they are experienced in
          > bringing kids up to speed. Waldorf has been a very expensive lesson
          > for all of us.
          >
          >
          > --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, tyler Mazzeo <tylermazzeo@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Lily, thank you for your very encouraging email. I am intensly
          > interested to know more about the waldorf schools. If it is not too
          > much trouble for you, would you mind telling me a little bit about the
          > kinds of things your daughter has learned at the Waldorf school? How
          > much is tuition a year at the Waldorf schools? I have no doubt that
          > they produce fine individuals, but are there statistics about success
          > rates or what Waldorf graduates do?
          > > I word in an impoverished community, 100% free lunch, 98%
          > hispanic, many many immigrants. However, my 11 year old students have
          > developed curriculum ideas, vocabulary models, learning heirarchies
          > and charts that express more intelligence than anything I have yet
          > seen produced by educators. The human potential is untapped where I
          > work and the violence and subjegation is criminal, but becuase it is
          > the status quo, nobody can see the naked empress.
          > > By the way, my personal classroom homepage has as its username,
          > Artemis.
          > > THanks again for the uplifting note, I really feel alone in my
          > opinions and endeavors, maybe I am not as alone as I think, Sincerly ty
          > >
          > > Lily <artemis@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
          > call rates.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          Namaste,

          Lily
        • Peter Marko
          Well said, Lily - thank you! Peter Lili wrote Greetings, As the parent of a 14 year Waldorf Student I feel the need to reply to this letter about the lack of
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 1, 2007
            Well said, Lily - thank you!
            Peter

            Lili wrote"
            Greetings,

            As the parent of a 14 year Waldorf Student I feel the need to reply to this
            letter about the lack of academics in Waldorf education. It simply isn't
            true.
            It is just that the academics are hidden (so to speak) in the lower grades.
            Reading isn't stressed in the lower grades either and it is because
            different
            students "get" reading at widely different ages. For example, my daughter
            didn't really read, couldn't, until seventh grade, 13 years-old. Today she
            is
            a senior with a B+ average in a Waldorf high school that is considered to be
            an
            "honors" program (whatever that means) and colleges are dying to get her.

            The waldorf program is designed around developmental needs, not societal or
            parental needs. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying that "imagination stops
            once a child starts to read" and I believe it is because they are getting
            someone else's ideas and pictures of reality instead of making up their own.

            My daughters friends, some who have been in the same class with her for 14
            years, are some of the finest, brightest, kindist, self-motivated and
            intelligent people I've ever met and they will save the world.

            A parents (or teacher's) job is not to impart information to their child,
            their
            job is to clear away distractions (TV, bad food, pressure, worry,etc.) so
            that
            they can discover what they already know. And each child is different and
            Waldorf respects, honors and loves that individuality in all it's wonderous
            forms.

            A good book is "You are your child's first teacher" by Rahima Baldwin.

            Don't compare Waldorf/Steiner schools to other school systems, there is no
            comparison.

            As a parent, past teacher & staff member of a Waldorf school I have learned
            as
            much from the experience as has my beautiful daughter and her outstanding
            class
            and schoolmates.

            Namaste,

            Lily
          • tyler Mazzeo
            Lorie, thankyou for sharing your story with me, I really appreciate it. I think you sent it to me a few weeks ago and when I replied to thank you, it was
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
              Lorie, thankyou for sharing your story with me, I really appreciate it. I think you sent it to me a few weeks ago and when I replied to thank you, it was returned. I hope you get this note. You sound like very caring parents, i feel lucky for your daughter however you choose to educate here. Thanks again, ty.

              lbb116 <lorie_b@...> wrote: Tyler.....

              I saw this post asking about information on Waldorf. My daughter has
              just spent a year and a half at a Waldorf school. We left public
              school after 1st grade because she was miserable. The school system
              was very over crowded and she, being an indigo, had very strong
              opinions about how she should be taught. It didn't go over too well
              with her 1st grade teacher. The principal got to know my daughter
              really well.

              After visiting the indigochild.com site and saw that waldorf and
              montessori schools might be a good alternative, we applied to
              Montessori, but there weren't any openings. After visiting Waldorf,
              it seemed it might be a good fit. We knew up front that they delayed
              teaching reading unitl 2nd grade. This didn't concern us since, she
              was a strong reader -- already tested to be reading at the 3rd grade
              level.
              We liked that they had a morning recess after snack and an afternoon
              recess after lunch every day. At her old school lunch was at 10:30!!!
              They very often didn't get recess. She would have handwork class where
              she learned to knit. So far, she's knitted a cat, a horse and a flute
              case. She would have russian and german classes. PE seemed to be in
              the form of a movement class called eurythmy. Language arts, writing,
              history, and math seemed to be rolled up into one block called "main
              lesson". Math was on the schedule only once a week. When I
              questioned this, I was told that they had a "holistic" approach to
              math and it was "folded" into the whole curriculum. Even so, after
              the rushed, over-the-top, pushed down curriculum of public school,
              this seemed to be a kinder, gentler approach to education. Like we
              remembered when we were in grade school. It felt like we were giving
              her childhood back to her.

              The first several months was a big adjustment for her. They have a
              policy about keeping the outside out of school. No character based
              clothing, lunch boxes and no black clothing. They even encourage
              parents to get rid of the TV. That meant she couldn't wear her beloved
              light-up sneakers or bring her Barbie lunchbox to school. She also
              endured quite a bit of teasing and friction from the other kids
              (mostly from a few boys). They delighted in pointing out everytime
              she did something wrong. Slowly she adapted, let go of all the pent
              up anger from 1st grade and began making friends and fitting in. It
              is to the credit of the school and the parents that everyone stood by
              her and refused to let the teasing go unnoticed or uncorrected. She
              loved the school, however we became very concerned that her teacher
              was unqualified (she had absolutely no teaching credentials or
              experience), and the curriculum was a little too lax. There are no
              text books, the children copy off the blackboard into their "main
              lesson" books, using crayons at first and then moving to pencils. At
              the end of the chaotic year, many parents were on the fence about
              returning, as were we. Two actually did not. We did reluctantly, we
              felt we had no other alternative, Montessori would not have any
              openings until the 4th grade. We did not want to put her back in
              public schools. So we returned this school year with much misgivings
              and apprehension. The teacher still did not have control of the
              class, several boys were ADD and she could not handle them.

              In October, we visited the local Montessori. My daughter met with the
              4th grade teacher, at my request, to determine where she was
              academically and how much catch-up we'd have to do to get her ready
              for the 4th grade. We were told she "would not be a good fit". We
              then had her tested at Huntington Learning Center. She was 1 1/2
              years behind academically. She was behind in reading comprehension
              and mathematics. She was struggling with not only multiplication but
              subtraction (multi-digit with borrowing).

              After getting that grim news, we made the decision to contract with
              Huntington to tutor her in reading and math. According to their
              evaluation it will take approx. 153 hours to bring her up to speed.
              So We've withdrawn her from Waldorf. She'll go to Huntington in the
              mornings for 2 hours every day Mon-Fri and I'll homeschool her in the
              rest of the 3rd grade curriculum ... spelling, cursive, science,
              social studies.

              We are not the only parents who pulled their kids out of Waldorf
              because of lack of academics. The parents that pulled their kids out
              of her class last year did it because of academics or lack of.
              Waldorf sounds good on paper and at visitation. But the fact is the
              kids simply aren't getting the basics when they need them. I talked
              to the all-girls middle school where Waldorf girls are supposed to
              matriculate in 5th grade and I was told that they have to be "caught
              up in math." The Admissions director told me this.

              This is something to be aware of and consider if you are looking at
              Waldorf.

              Lorie

              BTW, it will cost us as much as a full years tuition at Waldorf to
              have Huntington tutor her. We chose to do this because all their
              teachers are certified and accredited. And, they are experienced in
              bringing kids up to speed. Waldorf has been a very expensive lesson
              for all of us.

              --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, tyler Mazzeo <tylermazzeo@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Lily, thank you for your very encouraging email. I am intensly
              interested to know more about the waldorf schools. If it is not too
              much trouble for you, would you mind telling me a little bit about the
              kinds of things your daughter has learned at the Waldorf school? How
              much is tuition a year at the Waldorf schools? I have no doubt that
              they produce fine individuals, but are there statistics about success
              rates or what Waldorf graduates do?
              > I word in an impoverished community, 100% free lunch, 98%
              hispanic, many many immigrants. However, my 11 year old students have
              developed curriculum ideas, vocabulary models, learning heirarchies
              and charts that express more intelligence than anything I have yet
              seen produced by educators. The human potential is untapped where I
              work and the violence and subjegation is criminal, but becuase it is
              the status quo, nobody can see the naked empress.
              > By the way, my personal classroom homepage has as its username,
              Artemis.
              > THanks again for the uplifting note, I really feel alone in my
              opinions and endeavors, maybe I am not as alone as I think, Sincerly ty
              >
              > Lily <artemis@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
              call rates.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lbb116
              Yeah, that s what I was told too. My daughter is very, very bright. On paper, the curriculum, her 3rd grade was teaching appropriate math (advanced addition,
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
                Yeah, that's what I was told too. My daughter is very, very bright.
                On paper, the curriculum, her 3rd grade was teaching appropriate math
                (advanced addition, subtraction and beginning multiplication and
                division). However, she struggled because she wasn't getting enough
                of the subject on a weekly basis or the teacher simply wasn't able to
                teach. Her teacher is not certified, she doesn't even have a degree
                in early education. My concern, as are many who left Waldorf, is that
                when my daughter was ready to leave Waldorf, for high school, she
                would be so far behind that she would be set up for failure from the
                first day. College was a concern too. There are many who have left
                waldorf emotionally scarred due to the teachers anthroposophic
                beliefs, rightly or wrongly interpreted or inability to fit into
                mainstream society or schools.

                All I am saying, go with eyes open. It is an alternative school. If
                your child is special needs, ie ADD or ADHD or very sensitive or
                emotionally fragile, then this nurturing environment is probably the
                right one. However, if your child is indigo, bright and gifted and is
                miserable in public schools because of personality conflicts, and you
                are not willing to do the extra required to keep his/her academics up
                to speed so when (s)he matriculates to another school, be aware, they
                will most probably be behind in more than the Waldorf school will
                admit. This information comes from Waldorf alumns and their parents,
                not just my personal experience. Also, those famous people who've
                been at Waldorf, not all had a happy experience. David Gilmour, of
                Pink Floyd, put his kids in Waldorf, partly to his memory of his
                education in public schools. He pulled them out because he too was
                concerned. His 14 year old daughter struggled in a conventional
                school and had to be put back a grade and still struggled.

                Waldorf doesn't require its teachers to be certified or to even have a
                teaching background or degree. Waldorf is not accredited by any other
                body than itself. They do not grade or test, so there is no way to
                determine if their graduates will be able to go on to another high
                school or to college, as they insist. Each Waldorf is different in
                their competency and success, since some have actual certified trained
                teachers. My daughter did not and that teacher would follow her all
                the way up through 7th grade or beyond. They plan to add 7th grade
                next year and continue to add grades as long as there is interest. I
                doubt my daughter would be in an "honors" program when she got to high
                school with her current teacher. Also, most Waldorf schools struggle
                financially, the one we left certainly does. So it makes me wonder,
                where they would get the capital needed to fund an acceptable high
                school science lab?

                All I am saying is, please ask a lot of questions. Does the teacher
                have a degree in education? Is (s)he certified, and not just in
                Waldorf? Google Waldorf critics. A waldorf education is not cheap.
                As it stands, I paid $14,000 for my daughter to learn how to knit,
                play with bees wax and paint with real watercolors. I consider the
                rest of her education a total waste, She already knew how to read and
                write. She did learn about some saints and legends -- their version
                of history. I may not even get a refund of the remainder of this
                year's tuition. That battle has yet to be fought.




                --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Marko"
                <peter.j.marko@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well said, Lily - thank you!
                > Peter
                >
                > Lili wrote"
                > Greetings,
                >
                > As the parent of a 14 year Waldorf Student I feel the need to reply
                to this
                > letter about the lack of academics in Waldorf education. It simply isn't
                > true.
                > It is just that the academics are hidden (so to speak) in the lower
                grades.
                > Reading isn't stressed in the lower grades either and it is because
                > different
                > students "get" reading at widely different ages. For example, my
                daughter
                > didn't really read, couldn't, until seventh grade, 13 years-old.
                Today she
                > is
                > a senior with a B+ average in a Waldorf high school that is
                considered to be
                > an
                > "honors" program (whatever that means) and colleges are dying to get
                her.
                >
                > The waldorf program is designed around developmental needs, not
                societal or
                > parental needs. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying that
                "imagination stops
                > once a child starts to read" and I believe it is because they are
                getting
                > someone else's ideas and pictures of reality instead of making up
                their own.
                >
                > My daughters friends, some who have been in the same class with her
                for 14
                > years, are some of the finest, brightest, kindist, self-motivated and
                > intelligent people I've ever met and they will save the world.
                >
                > A parents (or teacher's) job is not to impart information to their
                child,
                > their
                > job is to clear away distractions (TV, bad food, pressure,
                worry,etc.) so
                > that
                > they can discover what they already know. And each child is
                different and
                > Waldorf respects, honors and loves that individuality in all it's
                wonderous
                > forms.
                >
                > A good book is "You are your child's first teacher" by Rahima Baldwin.
                >
                > Don't compare Waldorf/Steiner schools to other school systems, there
                is no
                > comparison.
                >
                > As a parent, past teacher & staff member of a Waldorf school I have
                learned
                > as
                > much from the experience as has my beautiful daughter and her
                outstanding
                > class
                > and schoolmates.
                >
                > Namaste,
                >
                > Lily
                >
              • Lily
                Lorie, I d like to respond to your e-mail point-by-point as you bring up some valid concerns. ... Being a Waldorf Class teacher is a very difficult job. It
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 5, 2007
                  Lorie,

                  I'd like to respond to your e-mail point-by-point as you bring up some valid
                  concerns.




                  Quoting lbb116 <lorie_b@...>:

                  > Yeah, that's what I was told too. My daughter is very, very bright.
                  > On paper, the curriculum, her 3rd grade was teaching appropriate math
                  > (advanced addition, subtraction and beginning multiplication and
                  > division).

                  Being a Waldorf Class teacher is a very difficult job. It sounds like your
                  daughter's teacher was inexperienced. The Waldorf curriculum calls for
                  teaching the four major operationg (addition, subtraction, multiplication,
                  division) from the beinging. In first grade the children use counting stones
                  (or something similar) and concretely follow along stories that have them
                  adding, subtracting, multipling and dividing with the help of gnomes or
                  somewhat. Each year the exercises become more and more complex as well as more
                  abstract. In year three the children are still very concrete in their thinking
                  and need physical aides to assist. Not all children but most, all are
                  different. They learn math first as a language. In year three the "math"
                  senstences can be of many steps.


                  However, she struggled because she wasn't getting enough
                  > of the subject on a weekly basis or the teacher simply wasn't able to
                  > teach. Her teacher is not certified, she doesn't even have a degree
                  > in early education.

                  It is true that Waldorf schools don't require any specific credential. However,
                  most schools in the US do want to see a BA and Waldorf Training or equaliante
                  experience. The fact is experienced Waldorf teachers are in short supply.
                  School's are openning all over and there are only so many teachers to go
                  around. And there are poor ones as well. Not all teacher's can do the job.

                  I'd also like to note that 3rd grade is a very common time for parents to freak
                  out about - reading, homework, etc.


                  My concern, as are many who left Waldorf, is that
                  > when my daughter was ready to leave Waldorf, for high school, she
                  > would be so far behind that she would be set up for failure from the
                  > first day.

                  The general rule of thumb seems to be that yes they are behind (what does that
                  mean anyway) until 3rd grade and then transfer find into public or main-stream
                  schooling. Now this is very individual. My daughter, for instance, could not
                  have managed in a public school until 9th grade as she didn't read until 7th.
                  Now she is applying to UC Berekley and other top colleges and will get in to
                  one of them even with her disablility. You see my daughter has severe dyslexia
                  but with the support of her teachers and classmates has learned to function in
                  the 2D realm while not loosing touch with her remarkable 3D vision and thought.
                  Writing is still hard for her, but she works at it really hard and keeps
                  getting better. Charlotte (my little one) did very poorly on the SAT and SAT
                  II because she doesn't test well. It doesn't reflect on her intelligence and
                  ability and a lot of colleges are beginning to see that standardized tests
                  don't tell them much about a student.



                  College was a concern too. There are many who have left
                  > waldorf emotionally scarred due to the teachers anthroposophic
                  > beliefs, rightly or wrongly interpreted or inability to fit into
                  > mainstream society or schools.

                  As for fitting into society or "the real world", waldorf students do better than
                  most young people. The do it with confidence, caring and grace. If you have a
                  Waldorf High School nearby, talk to some of the students - they will engage you
                  like few people can.

                  In years that I struggled to make school payments, I'd talk to the high
                  schoolers. They weren't afraid of adults or distainful. They were poised and
                  self-possesed. I envy them their secure sense of self.
                  >
                  > All I am saying, go with eyes open. It is an alternative school. If
                  > your child is special needs, ie ADD or ADHD or very sensitive or
                  > emotionally fragile, then this nurturing environment is probably the
                  > right one.


                  However, if your child is indigo, bright and gifted and is
                  > miserable in public schools because of personality conflicts,

                  Personality conflicts are part of life and children need to learn to deal with
                  them not run from them. Children in a Waldorf class learn to appreciate and
                  work with people they like and dislike. They can't hide from "difficult"
                  people . The teachers model and subtlely work with the children on social
                  skills. What they don't do is demand.


                  and you
                  > are not willing to do the extra required to keep his/her academics up
                  > to speed so when (s)he matriculates to another school, be aware, they
                  > will most probably be behind in more than the Waldorf school will
                  > admit. This information comes from Waldorf alumns and their parents,
                  > not just my personal experience.


                  Also, those famous people who've
                  > been at Waldorf, not all had a happy experience. David Gilmour, of
                  > Pink Floyd, put his kids in Waldorf, partly to his memory of his
                  > education in public schools. He pulled them out because he too was
                  > concerned. His 14 year old daughter struggled in a conventional
                  > school and had to be put back a grade and still struggled.

                  Many people leave Waldorf for many different reasons and I can't comment on
                  David Gilmour's experience. My experience seems to be that it is often because
                  of parent's problems with the school/teacher/children and not the child's.

                  I was told by two specialists when my daughter was diagnosed that she shouldn't
                  been in a Waldorf shcool. One therapist had her own children in the same
                  school. But we (my husband, daughter and I) decided it was more important that
                  she was happy and enjoyed learning then if she ever learned to read so she
                  stayed in Waldorf and slowly, very slowly, it came - when her brain was ready.

                  >
                  > Waldorf doesn't require its teachers to be certified or to even have a
                  > teaching background or degree. Waldorf is not accredited by any other
                  > body than itself.


                  Some Waldorf schools are accredited and some not. I think only private high
                  schools are accredited. My daughter's school regularly gets the best and
                  longest accreditation from the Western Schools something or other.


                  They do not grade or test, so there is no way to
                  > determine if their graduates will be able to go on to another high
                  > school or to college, as they insist.

                  This is true for the most part in the lower 8 grades. Instead of grades parents
                  get detailed narrative reports from all their child's teacher. Not only the
                  class teacher, but the speciality teachers. The children are taught by a team
                  of several teachers. In the middle grades some teachers have qiuzes and tests
                  for practice at taking tests and TO MAKE PARENTS HAPPY.


                  Each Waldorf is different in
                  > their competency and success, since some have actual certified trained
                  > teachers. My daughter did not and that teacher would follow her all
                  > the way up through 7th grade or beyond. They plan to add 7th grade
                  > next year and continue to add grades as long as there is interest. I
                  > doubt my daughter would be in an "honors" program when she got to high
                  > school with her current teacher. Also, most Waldorf schools struggle
                  > financially, the one we left certainly does. So it makes me wonder,
                  > where they would get the capital needed to fund an acceptable high
                  > school science lab?

                  The Waldorf schools do struggle financially, especially young schools. It is a
                  problem that is being addressed at many levels in the community.

                  >
                  > All I am saying is, please ask a lot of questions. Does the teacher
                  > have a degree in education? Is (s)he certified, and not just in
                  > Waldorf? Google Waldorf critics. A waldorf education is not cheap.
                  > As it stands, I paid $14,000 for my daughter to learn how to knit,
                  > play with bees wax and paint with real watercolors.

                  Yes Waldorf is expensive, very for a middle class family. It's worth every
                  penny.


                  I consider the
                  > rest of her education a total waste, She already knew how to read and
                  > write. She did learn about some saints and legends -- their version
                  > of history. I may not even get a refund of the remainder of this
                  > year's tuition. That battle has yet to be fought.


                  Handwork is taught because it engages the senses and is a will activity. The
                  child learns they can think something and then make it real!!!!!!!!! Very
                  important. Children 7-14 still require a lot of physical motion to learn. In
                  Knitting teaches shape, number and coorination. It refines the sense of touch
                  and sight. Painting teachs color, shade and tone as well as fluid dynamics.
                  Singing trains the ear. Oh there is so much more to learn the the 3Rs. Waldorf
                  students recite times-tables while they jump rope. Reaserch shows that learning
                  is quicker and easeier if it includes a motion component.

                  I'm sorry you had a bad experience at a Waldorf school. I would check my
                  assumptions about education and do some research about child development and
                  education.

                  Namaste,

                  Lily
                • Lily
                  Hi Lorie, I forgot the emotionally scared from Waldorf education. The kids I know, have known, etc. love the school. Some don t like classmates or
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 5, 2007
                    Hi Lorie,

                    I forgot the "emotionally scared" from Waldorf education. The kids I know, have
                    known, etc. love the school. Some don't like classmates or teachers. I've
                    never heard of a child being "emotionally scared" by a waldorf class. Though I
                    have heard of some individual teachers that were abusive to the children in some
                    manner. It is taken care of quickly by the community - believe me.

                    I would love to hear your story.

                    Lily
                  • lbb116
                    Unfortunately, Waldorf was not the best fit for my child. She is quite creative and artistic and needs that outlet. She takes ballet (since the age of 3),
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 7, 2007
                      Unfortunately, Waldorf was not the best fit for my child. She is
                      quite creative and artistic and needs that outlet. She takes ballet
                      (since the age of 3), has started with a local theater group and takes
                      art lessons from a local artist. She is thriving at Huntington and
                      catching up in both reading comprehension and in math. Home
                      schooling seems to be going well too, although we've only finished her
                      first week. We're tackling spelling and cursive, science and social
                      studies. We've started with ancient Greece and began with mythology.
                      Monday we'll take a trip to the science museum and study simple machines.

                      It broke my heart to learn that she was struggling in math at Waldorf.
                      She loved the school and enjoyed handwork and eurythemy. However,
                      she's a visual learner and that's not how they teach at Waldorf, at
                      least math anyway. She was totally lost during "mental math"
                      exercises. She needs to see the numbers or at least have "counters".
                      When she was pulled out of Waldorf, she totally hated math. Now,
                      she's becoming excited about it again.

                      It was disturbing and gut-wrenching to see my bright, intelligent and
                      gifted child backslide. Either the program was not challenging enough
                      or the teacher was simply not doing her job. The frustrating part of
                      it all was whenever the parents made suggestions on improving the
                      classroom, we were told it's not according to steiner. The parents
                      just don't seem to have any clout or say unless they're on the board.

                      Public schools are pushing too much too soon and it seems that Waldorf
                      schools are at the opposite end of the spectrum. It was not a good
                      fit for us, my child needed more structure and challenging curriculum.

                      We were desperate last year to find a school for my daughter to help
                      her recover and learn to enjoy school again. We took a leap of faith
                      that Waldorf was the right school. Our choices were limited to
                      Waldorf, public or religious-based. It was a very rough year. She
                      healed emotionally, but she lost what she'd learned in 1st grade. I
                      really don't know if it would have been different if the teacher
                      actually had a teaching background. I've talked to other former
                      waldorf parents (from other schools) and my feeling is it probably
                      wouldn't be much different.

                      My daughter pretty much learned to count to 20 before preschool, knew
                      her alphabet and was learning to recognize words. She learned to read
                      in kindergarten. She has an insatiable thirst for knowledge. When
                      she takes a particular interest in a subject, she soaks it up like a
                      sponge. When she was four, she took an interest in butterflies. She
                      can now identify all the local butterflies by sight. She can also
                      talk about probably 10 or 15 more. It's the same with rocks. She
                      can identify all the variety of quartz as well as several other minerals.

                      > I would check my assumptions about education and do some research
                      > about child development and education.

                      My point exactly... Waldorf is touted to being the perfect alternative
                      for the indigo child. What I have learned is that may not be the case
                      for all indigos. One size doesn't fit all and neither does Waldorf.
                      It is troubling that a school can open its doors with untrained
                      teachers. It is troubling that a school doesn't have to answer to
                      basic standards. I realize it is a private school, but it should at
                      least have to fulfill some basic state licensing requirements and
                      certifications. How many parents are savvy enough to ask all the
                      right questions and do a complete assessment of a non-accredited
                      alternative school?

                      I am not totally bashing Waldorf. I'm simply trying to bring to light
                      some things about the schools -- hiring untrained, non-credentialed
                      teachers.



                      Lorie

                      --- In indigo-schools@yahoogroups.com, Lily <artemis@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lorie,
                      >
                      > I'd like to respond to your e-mail point-by-point as you bring up
                      some valid
                      > concerns.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Quoting lbb116 <lorie_b@...>:
                      >
                      > > Yeah, that's what I was told too. My daughter is very, very bright.
                      > > On paper, the curriculum, her 3rd grade was teaching appropriate math
                      > > (advanced addition, subtraction and beginning multiplication and
                      > > division).
                      >
                      > Being a Waldorf Class teacher is a very difficult job. It sounds
                      like your
                      > daughter's teacher was inexperienced. The Waldorf curriculum calls for
                      > teaching the four major operationg (addition, subtraction,
                      multiplication,
                      > division) from the beinging. In first grade the children use
                      counting stones
                      > (or something similar) and concretely follow along stories that have
                      them
                      > adding, subtracting, multipling and dividing with the help of gnomes or
                      > somewhat. Each year the exercises become more and more complex as
                      well as more
                      > abstract. In year three the children are still very concrete in
                      their thinking
                      > and need physical aides to assist. Not all children but most, all are
                      > different. They learn math first as a language. In year three the
                      "math"
                      > senstences can be of many steps.
                      >
                      >
                      > However, she struggled because she wasn't getting enough
                      > > of the subject on a weekly basis or the teacher simply wasn't able to
                      > > teach. Her teacher is not certified, she doesn't even have a degree
                      > > in early education.
                      >
                      > It is true that Waldorf schools don't require any specific
                      credential. However,
                      > most schools in the US do want to see a BA and Waldorf Training or
                      equaliante
                      > experience. The fact is experienced Waldorf teachers are in short
                      supply.
                      > School's are openning all over and there are only so many teachers to go
                      > around. And there are poor ones as well. Not all teacher's can do
                      the job.
                      >
                      > I'd also like to note that 3rd grade is a very common time for
                      parents to freak
                      > out about - reading, homework, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > My concern, as are many who left Waldorf, is that
                      > > when my daughter was ready to leave Waldorf, for high school, she
                      > > would be so far behind that she would be set up for failure from the
                      > > first day.
                      >
                      > The general rule of thumb seems to be that yes they are behind (what
                      does that
                      > mean anyway) until 3rd grade and then transfer find into public or
                      main-stream
                      > schooling. Now this is very individual. My daughter, for instance,
                      could not
                      > have managed in a public school until 9th grade as she didn't read
                      until 7th.
                      > Now she is applying to UC Berekley and other top colleges and will
                      get in to
                      > one of them even with her disablility. You see my daughter has
                      severe dyslexia
                      > but with the support of her teachers and classmates has learned to
                      function in
                      > the 2D realm while not loosing touch with her remarkable 3D vision
                      and thought.
                      > Writing is still hard for her, but she works at it really hard and
                      keeps
                      > getting better. Charlotte (my little one) did very poorly on the
                      SAT and SAT
                      > II because she doesn't test well. It doesn't reflect on her
                      intelligence and
                      > ability and a lot of colleges are beginning to see that standardized
                      tests
                      > don't tell them much about a student.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > College was a concern too. There are many who have left
                      > > waldorf emotionally scarred due to the teachers anthroposophic
                      > > beliefs, rightly or wrongly interpreted or inability to fit into
                      > > mainstream society or schools.
                      >
                      > As for fitting into society or "the real world", waldorf students do
                      better than
                      > most young people. The do it with confidence, caring and grace. If
                      you have a
                      > Waldorf High School nearby, talk to some of the students - they will
                      engage you
                      > like few people can.
                      >
                      > In years that I struggled to make school payments, I'd talk to the high
                      > schoolers. They weren't afraid of adults or distainful. They were
                      poised and
                      > self-possesed. I envy them their secure sense of self.
                      > >
                      > > All I am saying, go with eyes open. It is an alternative school. If
                      > > your child is special needs, ie ADD or ADHD or very sensitive or
                      > > emotionally fragile, then this nurturing environment is probably the
                      > > right one.
                      >
                      >
                      > However, if your child is indigo, bright and gifted and is
                      > > miserable in public schools because of personality conflicts,
                      >
                      > Personality conflicts are part of life and children need to learn to
                      deal with
                      > them not run from them. Children in a Waldorf class learn to
                      appreciate and
                      > work with people they like and dislike. They can't hide from
                      "difficult"
                      > people . The teachers model and subtlely work with the children on
                      social
                      > skills. What they don't do is demand.
                      >
                      >
                      > and you
                      > > are not willing to do the extra required to keep his/her academics up
                      > > to speed so when (s)he matriculates to another school, be aware, they
                      > > will most probably be behind in more than the Waldorf school will
                      > > admit. This information comes from Waldorf alumns and their parents,
                      > > not just my personal experience.
                      >
                      >
                      > Also, those famous people who've
                      > > been at Waldorf, not all had a happy experience. David Gilmour, of
                      > > Pink Floyd, put his kids in Waldorf, partly to his memory of his
                      > > education in public schools. He pulled them out because he too was
                      > > concerned. His 14 year old daughter struggled in a conventional
                      > > school and had to be put back a grade and still struggled.
                      >
                      > Many people leave Waldorf for many different reasons and I can't
                      comment on
                      > David Gilmour's experience. My experience seems to be that it is
                      often because
                      > of parent's problems with the school/teacher/children and not the
                      child's.
                      >
                      > I was told by two specialists when my daughter was diagnosed that
                      she shouldn't
                      > been in a Waldorf shcool. One therapist had her own children in the
                      same
                      > school. But we (my husband, daughter and I) decided it was more
                      important that
                      > she was happy and enjoyed learning then if she ever learned to read
                      so she
                      > stayed in Waldorf and slowly, very slowly, it came - when her brain
                      was ready.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Waldorf doesn't require its teachers to be certified or to even have a
                      > > teaching background or degree. Waldorf is not accredited by any other
                      > > body than itself.
                      >
                      >
                      > Some Waldorf schools are accredited and some not. I think only
                      private high
                      > schools are accredited. My daughter's school regularly gets the
                      best and
                      > longest accreditation from the Western Schools something or other.
                      >
                      >
                      > They do not grade or test, so there is no way to
                      > > determine if their graduates will be able to go on to another high
                      > > school or to college, as they insist.
                      >
                      > This is true for the most part in the lower 8 grades. Instead of
                      grades parents
                      > get detailed narrative reports from all their child's teacher. Not
                      only the
                      > class teacher, but the speciality teachers. The children are taught
                      by a team
                      > of several teachers. In the middle grades some teachers have qiuzes
                      and tests
                      > for practice at taking tests and TO MAKE PARENTS HAPPY.
                      >
                      >
                      > Each Waldorf is different in
                      > > their competency and success, since some have actual certified trained
                      > > teachers. My daughter did not and that teacher would follow her all
                      > > the way up through 7th grade or beyond. They plan to add 7th grade
                      > > next year and continue to add grades as long as there is interest. I
                      > > doubt my daughter would be in an "honors" program when she got to high
                      > > school with her current teacher. Also, most Waldorf schools struggle
                      > > financially, the one we left certainly does. So it makes me wonder,
                      > > where they would get the capital needed to fund an acceptable high
                      > > school science lab?
                      >
                      > The Waldorf schools do struggle financially, especially young
                      schools. It is a
                      > problem that is being addressed at many levels in the community.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > All I am saying is, please ask a lot of questions. Does the teacher
                      > > have a degree in education? Is (s)he certified, and not just in
                      > > Waldorf? Google Waldorf critics. A waldorf education is not cheap.
                      > > As it stands, I paid $14,000 for my daughter to learn how to knit,
                      > > play with bees wax and paint with real watercolors.
                      >
                      > Yes Waldorf is expensive, very for a middle class family. It's
                      worth every
                      > penny.
                      >
                      >
                      > I consider the
                      > > rest of her education a total waste, She already knew how to read and
                      > > write. She did learn about some saints and legends -- their version
                      > > of history. I may not even get a refund of the remainder of this
                      > > year's tuition. That battle has yet to be fought.
                      >
                      >
                      > Handwork is taught because it engages the senses and is a will
                      activity. The
                      > child learns they can think something and then make it real!!!!!!!!!
                      Very
                      > important. Children 7-14 still require a lot of physical motion to
                      learn. In
                      > Knitting teaches shape, number and coorination. It refines the
                      sense of touch
                      > and sight. Painting teachs color, shade and tone as well as fluid
                      dynamics.
                      > Singing trains the ear. Oh there is so much more to learn the the
                      3Rs. Waldorf
                      > students recite times-tables while they jump rope. Reaserch shows
                      that learning
                      > is quicker and easeier if it includes a motion component.
                      >
                      > I'm sorry you had a bad experience at a Waldorf school. I would
                      check my
                      > assumptions about education and do some research about child
                      development and
                      > education.
                      >
                      > Namaste,
                      >
                      > Lily
                      >
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