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Crux Playtesting

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  • taalenmaple
    Mike has suggested a different groups of players for help in playtesting, and I think it s a good idea. That said - anyone game? Time, how, etc. will be
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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      Mike has suggested a different groups of players for help in
      playtesting, and I think it's a good idea. That said - anyone game?
      Time, how, etc. will be figured out once we have some takers..

      Aidan
    • Mike Holmes
      Well, I guess I d be a jerk if I didn t volunteer. OTOH, I may be a bit close to it. Your call. Either way is fine with me. Mike ...
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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        Well, I guess I'd be a jerk if I didn't volunteer. OTOH, I may be a bit
        close to it. Your call. Either way is fine with me.

        Mike

        >From: "taalenmaple" <taalenmaple@...>
        >
        >Mike has suggested a different groups of players for help in
        >playtesting, and I think it's a good idea. That said - anyone game?
        >Time, how, etc. will be figured out once we have some takers..
        >
        >Aidan
        >

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      • JRice
        ... while it may be all well and good for those of you out there with spectacular memories... I, for one, have trouble remember which game is which. Could it
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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          >Well, I guess I'd be a jerk if I didn't volunteer. OTOH, I may be a bit
          >close to it. Your call. Either way is fine with me.
          >
          >>Mike has suggested a different groups of players for help in
          >>playtesting, and I think it's a good idea. That said - anyone game?
          >>Time, how, etc. will be figured out once we have some takers..


          while it may be all well and good for those of you out there with
          spectacular memories... I, for one, have trouble remember which game is
          which.

          Could it be made a "list convention" to include *some* link to your game
          (or some information to your game) in every post where it's mentioned?
          I don't think it would get *too* terribly tedious for those people who
          already know where to look, and it would stop the spam (that seems
          rather common) from people like me asking:

          Sorry, what's Crux, again?



          ...Unless, of course, you are specifically trying to exlude people who
          are not familiar with the system already...



          Just a thought.
        • Aidan Grey
          I have no issues whatsoever if you wanna play. It would be cool, actually, since you ve had your hand in so much, to see what cool things you bring to the
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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            I have no issues whatsoever if you wanna play. It would be cool, actually, since you've had your hand in so much, to see what cool things you bring to the actual gaming side. that said, don't feel obligated - if you only volunteered out of a fear of jerkiness, don't play, and don't feel like a jerk.
             
            Aidan

            Mike Holmes <homeydont@...> wrote:
            Well, I guess I'd be a jerk if I didn't volunteer. OTOH, I may be a bit
            close to it. Your call. Either way is fine with me.

            Mike

            >From: "taalenmaple" <taalenmaple@...>
            >
            >Mike has suggested a different groups of players for help in
            >playtesting, and I think it's a good idea. That said - anyone game?
            >Time, how, etc. will be figured out once we have some takers..
            >
            >Aidan
            >

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          • Nathan E Banks
            ... Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 4:43:22 PM, JRice wrote: J Could it be made a list convention to include *some* link to your game J (or some
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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              Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 4:43:22 PM, JRice wrote:

              J> Could it be made a "list convention" to include *some* link to
              your game
              J> (or some information to your game) in every post where it's
              mentioned?

              J> Just a thought.

              Not a bad idea. I'm working on making an area where members can
              submit suggestions for "how the group works" sorts of things. If
              we accumulate enough, maybe we can make an official FAQ.

              - --
              Nathan E. Banks

              "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
              punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
              car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
              house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
              take his stuff."

              - Colin the Riot

              http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

              ICQ 34492883
              PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
              850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

              - --
              "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
              - Niccolo Paganini

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            • Nathan E Banks
              ... Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 8:27:35 PM, Nathan wrote: NEB Not a bad idea. I m working on making an area where members can NEB submit suggestions
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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                Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 8:27:35 PM, Nathan wrote:

                NEB> Not a bad idea. I'm working on making an area where members can
                NEB> submit suggestions for "how the group works" sorts of things. If
                NEB> we accumulate enough, maybe we can make an official FAQ.

                And, no easier said, than done. I just set up a table in the
                group's database section. Any list member can add records to
                this database.

                - --
                Nathan E. Banks

                "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
                punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
                car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
                house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
                take his stuff."

                - Colin the Riot

                http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

                ICQ 34492883
                PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
                850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

                - --
                "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
                - Niccolo Paganini

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              • taalenmaple
                ... You know, I realized about an hour ago that I should ve included a description. Sorry bout that. Crux is a game of Surreal Mysticism. Think Cirque du
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 22, 2003
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                  -- JRice <rice@t...> wrote:
                  > Sorry, what's Crux, again?

                  You know, I realized about an hour ago that I should've included a
                  description. Sorry 'bout that.

                  Crux is a game of Surreal Mysticism. Think Cirque du Soleil meets
                  Changeling meets Dune.

                  It has a unique mechanic - colored tokens. each character has a
                  caern, a unique collection of these token, called motes. When an
                  action is attempted, the player will draw a number of tokens equal to
                  their Trait and Aspect. For example, if I need to swim across a large
                  river, and I have a Strength of 3 and Swimming 2, then I'll draw 5
                  motes from my caern. Every Trait and Aspect has a color, which define
                  the target color. In the case of Strength, it's red (and so is
                  swimming, an athletic skill). Every red I draw will be worth 2 motes
                  of Power, and every amber or magenta mote will count for one mote of
                  Power. If I draw my five, and get 2 red, 1 amber, 1 green, and a
                  clear mote, I drew 5 power. Hopefully, that would be enough to
                  overcome the Obstacle of the river.

                  The game is set in the Coil, a combination of the yin of the Tell,
                  the world as we know it, and the yang of the Plasm, the everchanging
                  Otherworld, separated by a thin line of chaos, the Caesura. Crux
                  draws inspiration from Clive Barker's works (Imajica, Weaveworld, the
                  Great and Secret Show) as well as China Mieville (Perdido Street
                  Station, the Scar) and Charles deLint (Moonheart).

                  Players can be one of five Moieties:

                  - the Shoal: normal humans
                  - Inchoa: spirits of nature, as the Shoal call them. Inchoa are
                  beings with strong connections or bloodlines in common with animals,
                  plants, features of the landscape, or natural phenomenon. Some
                  example Inchoa might have numina (think "totem") such as Lightning,
                  Crow, the River Thames, or Mt. Everest.
                  - Quem: ideas and concepts, the spirits of machinery (aka Sheen) and
                  dreams made real. Examples include Love, Height, Tennis Shoes, DVDs,
                  or Unicorns.
                  - Nigh: crossbreeds of Noom, beings of any moiety except Shoal.
                  examples: Belladonna/Salmon, Hard Drive/Television/Duckweed, or
                  Insect/Thunder/Werewolf/Psyche.
                  - Nonsuch: Shoal/Noom crossbreeds.

                  Does that help? Anyone interested?

                  Aidan
                • Ed Heil
                  ... Oooh, careful! It s always good when you re using abstruse terminology to be very careful about the meanings, or else you get that teenager with a
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                    On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 12:02 AM, taalenmaple wrote:
                    > Players can be one of five Moieties:

                    Oooh, careful! It's always good when you're using abstruse terminology
                    to be very careful about the meanings, or else you get that "teenager
                    with a thesaurus" effect that White Wolf is known for. "Moiety" means
                    "half." It can also (in an anthropological context) mean a kinship
                    group, but it is only used that way when there are exactly two kinship
                    groups in the relevant community, so that each is a "half." By
                    definition, if there are five of them, they are not "moieties."

                    Spiffy setting though. :)
                  • Aidan Grey
                    Good point! However, part of the setting is that many of our words are corrupted from Plasm use. Originally, there were only 2 moieties - Shoal and Inchoa, and
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                      Good point! However, part of the setting is that many of our words are corrupted from Plasm use. Originally, there were only 2 moieties - Shoal and Inchoa, and that's when the term started to be used in the Tell. Since then, Inchoa split and introduced Quem, Nonsuch, and Nigh.
                       
                      That said, 'moiety' is also used for any part, portion, or share, at least, according to Dictionary.com and Webster's. And apparently this is a more common use that the anthropological definition too.
                       
                      Aidan

                      Ed Heil <edheil@...> wrote:

                      On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 12:02  AM, taalenmaple wrote:
                      > Players can be one of five Moieties:

                      Oooh, careful!  It's always good when you're using abstruse terminology
                      to be very careful about the meanings, or else you get that "teenager
                      with a thesaurus" effect that White Wolf is known for.  "Moiety" means
                      "half."  It can also (in an anthropological context) mean a kinship
                      group, but it is only used that way when there are exactly two kinship
                      groups in the relevant community, so that each is a "half."  By
                      definition, if there are five of them, they are not "moieties."

                      Spiffy setting though. :)



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                    • Ed Heil
                      Well, it s your game, but when I see moiety I think half and I m not an anthropologist... and both M-W.com and the American Heritage Dictionary at
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                        Well, it's your game, but when I see "moiety" I think "half" and I'm
                        not an anthropologist... and both M-W.com and the American Heritage
                        Dictionary at Bartleby.com list "half" as the primary definition and
                        "part" as secondary.

                        But hey, the origin story about there originally haveing been two
                        moieties takes the curse off it pretty well. It's just that
                        pretentious wonks like me are going to see "Five moieties" and our
                        first impression will be "uh oh! Teenager with a thesaurus!" :)

                        Might be good to separate out the pretentious wonks before the game
                        begins in any case though. :)


                        On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Aidan Grey wrote:

                        > Good point! However, part of the setting is that many of our words are
                        > corrupted from Plasm use. Originally, there were only 2 moieties -
                        > Shoal and Inchoa, and that's when the term started to be used in the
                        > Tell. Since then, Inchoa split and introduced Quem, Nonsuch, and Nigh.
                        >  
                        > That said, 'moiety' is also used for any part, portion, or share, at
                        > least, according to Dictionary.com and Webster's. And apparently this
                        > is a more common use that the anthropological definition too.
                        >  
                        > Aidan
                        >
                        > Ed Heil <edheil@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 12:02  AM, taalenmaple wrote:
                        > > Players can be one of five Moieties:
                        >
                        > Oooh, careful!  It's always good when you're using abstruse terminology
                        > to be very careful about the meanings, or else you get that "teenager
                        > with a thesaurus" effect that White Wolf is known for.  "Moiety" means
                        > "half."  It can also (in an anthropological context) mean a kinship
                        > group, but it is only used that way when there are exactly two kinship
                        > groups in the relevant community, so that each is a "half."  By
                        > definition, if there are five of them, they are not "moieties."
                        >
                        > Spiffy setting though. :)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > indie-netgaming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      • JRice
                        ... If impressions are important to you, I ll say I didn t recognize the word, and that made me roll my eyes. Similar response: I thought it was obfuscated.
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                          >Well, it's your game, but when I see "moiety" I think "half" and I'm
                          >not an anthropologist... and both M-W.com and the American Heritage
                          >Dictionary at Bartleby.com list "half" as the primary definition and
                          >"part" as secondary.
                          >
                          >But hey, the origin story about there originally haveing been two
                          >moieties takes the curse off it pretty well. It's just that
                          >pretentious wonks like me are going to see "Five moieties" and our
                          >first impression will be "uh oh! Teenager with a thesaurus!" :)
                          >
                          >Might be good to separate out the pretentious wonks before the game
                          >begins in any case though. :)

                          If impressions are important to you, I'll say I didn't recognize the
                          word, and that made me roll my eyes. Similar response: I thought it was
                          obfuscated. Perhaps removing that from the *system* and making it the
                          term used in the *setting* would be wise. I wouldn't have thought twice
                          if it read "race", and under that said "The races in Crux are referred
                          to as 'moieties', because..."

                          Just a thought.

                          The setting sounds quite interesting. The system seems a bit
                          cumbersome, at first glance.

                          If you're not afraid of a grumpy, opinionated player, I'd be willing to
                          help test it. ;)
                        • taalenmaple
                          Keep in mind, guys, you re getting the informal introduction. The rules will basically do exactly what you suggest, JRice. I am terminably and painfully aware
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                            Keep in mind, guys, you're getting the informal introduction. The
                            rules will basically do exactly what you suggest, JRice. I am
                            terminably and painfully aware of overjargonosity (that's a word, I'm
                            sure of it). One of my favorite settings, the original Immortal,
                            suffered from exactly this problem.

                            So everything will be set forth in straitforward, plain English, and
                            the jargon, what little there is, introduced in bits and pieces. I
                            won't give up all jargon - it helps to establish the surreal feel of
                            the setting - but I am conscious of overuse.

                            The mechanic isn't as cumbersome as it sounds. It's complicated to
                            explain, but having done it once, it's intuitive. My face-to-face
                            roleplayers love it, and I introduced some new players to it last
                            weekend. They were having no problems whatsoever within 10 minutes,
                            and a draw doesn't take any longer than rolling 42 d10s and comparing
                            numbers does.

                            So, I'm excited to add you to the list! If I can get at least one
                            more person, we could give it a go.

                            Oh, and BTW, these have been very helpful to highlight where I need
                            to be careful in explaining things, and how to avoid thesaurus
                            syndrome. Thanks to all of you.

                            Aidan



                            --- In indie-netgaming@yahoogroups.com, JRice <rice@t...> wrote:
                            > >Well, it's your game, but when I see "moiety" I think "half" and
                            I'm
                            > >not an anthropologist... and both M-W.com and the American Heritage
                            > >Dictionary at Bartleby.com list "half" as the primary definition
                            and
                            > >"part" as secondary.
                            > >
                            > >But hey, the origin story about there originally haveing been two
                            > >moieties takes the curse off it pretty well. It's just that
                            > >pretentious wonks like me are going to see "Five moieties" and our
                            > >first impression will be "uh oh! Teenager with a thesaurus!" :)
                            > >
                            > >Might be good to separate out the pretentious wonks before the game
                            > >begins in any case though. :)
                            >
                            > If impressions are important to you, I'll say I didn't recognize the
                            > word, and that made me roll my eyes. Similar response: I thought
                            it was
                            > obfuscated. Perhaps removing that from the *system* and making it
                            the
                            > term used in the *setting* would be wise. I wouldn't have thought
                            twice
                            > if it read "race", and under that said "The races in Crux are
                            referred
                            > to as 'moieties', because..."
                            >
                            > Just a thought.
                            >
                            > The setting sounds quite interesting. The system seems a bit
                            > cumbersome, at first glance.
                            >
                            > If you're not afraid of a grumpy, opinionated player, I'd be
                            willing to
                            > help test it. ;)
                          • Ed Heil
                            Well, it sounds like a really spiffy setting, and I d love to try it. But as I ve mentioned before, I m the world s least reliable netgamer. ... online when it
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 23, 2003
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                              Well, it sounds like a really spiffy setting, and I'd love to try it.
                              But as I've mentioned before, I'm the world's least reliable netgamer.
                              :) so are you planning on doing this in IRC? If you can catch me
                              online when it happens I'd love to play. Good luck. (feel free to
                              message me at my yahoo id: 'uncorrected' or my iChat/AIM id: edheil<at
                              sign>mac.com.

                              :)

                              Ed


                              On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 06:53 PM, taalenmaple wrote:

                              > Keep in mind, guys, you're getting the informal introduction. The
                              > rules will basically do exactly what you suggest, JRice. I am
                              > terminably and painfully aware of overjargonosity (that's a word, I'm
                              > sure of it). One of my favorite settings, the original Immortal,
                              > suffered from exactly this problem.
                              >
                              > So everything will be set forth in straitforward, plain English, and
                              > the jargon, what little there is, introduced in bits and pieces. I
                              > won't give up all jargon - it helps to establish the surreal feel of
                              > the setting - but I am conscious of overuse.
                              >
                              > The mechanic isn't as cumbersome as it sounds. It's complicated to
                              > explain, but having done it once, it's intuitive. My face-to-face
                              > roleplayers love it, and I introduced some new players to it last
                              > weekend. They were having no problems whatsoever within 10 minutes,
                              > and a draw doesn't take any longer than rolling 42 d10s and comparing
                              > numbers does.
                              >
                              > So, I'm excited to add you to the list! If I can get at least one
                              > more person, we could give it a go.
                              >
                              > Oh, and BTW, these have been very helpful to highlight where I need
                              > to be careful in explaining things, and how to avoid thesaurus
                              > syndrome. Thanks to all of you.
                              >
                              > Aidan
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In indie-netgaming@yahoogroups.com, JRice <rice@t...> wrote:
                              >>> Well, it's your game, but when I see "moiety" I think "half" and
                              > I'm
                              >>> not an anthropologist... and both M-W.com and the American Heritage
                              >>> Dictionary at Bartleby.com list "half" as the primary definition
                              > and
                              >>> "part" as secondary.
                              >>>
                              >>> But hey, the origin story about there originally haveing been two
                              >>> moieties takes the curse off it pretty well. It's just that
                              >>> pretentious wonks like me are going to see "Five moieties" and our
                              >>> first impression will be "uh oh! Teenager with a thesaurus!" :)
                              >>>
                              >>> Might be good to separate out the pretentious wonks before the game
                              >>> begins in any case though. :)
                              >>
                              >> If impressions are important to you, I'll say I didn't recognize the
                              >> word, and that made me roll my eyes. Similar response: I thought
                              > it was
                              >> obfuscated. Perhaps removing that from the *system* and making it
                              > the
                              >> term used in the *setting* would be wise. I wouldn't have thought
                              > twice
                              >> if it read "race", and under that said "The races in Crux are
                              > referred
                              >> to as 'moieties', because..."
                              >>
                              >> Just a thought.
                              >>
                              >> The setting sounds quite interesting. The system seems a bit
                              >> cumbersome, at first glance.
                              >>
                              >> If you're not afraid of a grumpy, opinionated player, I'd be
                              > willing to
                              >> help test it. ;)
                              >
                              >
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                            • Nathan E Banks
                              ... Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 11:02:51 PM, taalenmaple wrote: t It has a unique mechanic - colored tokens. each character has a t caern, a unique
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 24, 2003
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                                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                                Hash: SHA1

                                Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 11:02:51 PM, taalenmaple wrote:

                                t> It has a unique mechanic - colored tokens. each character has a
                                t> caern, a unique collection of these token, called motes. When an
                                t> action is attempted, the player will draw a number of tokens equal
                                to
                                t> their Trait and Aspect. For example, if I need to swim across a
                                large
                                t> river, and I have a Strength of 3 and Swimming 2, then I'll draw 5
                                t> motes from my caern.

                                Interesting mechanic here. I'm wondering how you plan on
                                implementing it for IRC / PBeM.

                                - --
                                Nathan E. Banks

                                "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
                                punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
                                car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
                                house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
                                take his stuff."

                                - Colin the Riot

                                http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

                                ICQ 34492883
                                PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
                                850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

                                - --
                                "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
                                - Niccolo Paganini

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                              • Shreyas Sampat
                                ... Incidentally, our private discussion satisfied me regarding the motivation of your jargonosity; though I disagree with its premise, it makes sense. My
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 24, 2003
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                                  > Keep in mind, guys, you're getting the informal introduction. The
                                  > rules will basically do exactly what you suggest, JRice. I am
                                  > terminably and painfully aware of overjargonosity (that's a word, I'm
                                  > sure of it). One of my favorite settings, the original Immortal,
                                  > suffered from exactly this problem.

                                  Incidentally, our private discussion satisfied me regarding the motivation of
                                  your jargonosity; though I disagree with its premise, it makes sense.

                                  My concern about the mechanic is how to represent it in IRC... it wouldn't be
                                  an easy thing to write a script for. Of course, you could just screen the
                                  players away from the mechanics.

                                  =====
                                  Shreyas

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                                • Aidan Grey
                                  If I may, what part of the premise do you disagree with? Just curious, really... I m glad my reasoning satisfied you. That means I can explain/argue the
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 24, 2003
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                                    If I may, what part of the premise do you disagree with? Just curious, really... I'm glad my reasoning satisfied you. That means I can explain/argue the resoning well enough to do what I'm tasked myself to do, if nothing else.
                                     
                                    I'm also at a loss as to how to represent the mechanic in IRC. A script can be done (I've done it in VB easy enough), but there's also the issue of typing in IRC. I'm not sure I can type fast enough, and think it might work better as a PBeM game... in which case, I'm guessing it's no longer appropriate to the list?
                                     
                                    I'm an IRC virgin, so if I'm being daunted needlessly, say so. I'm particularly worries about screening players away from mechanics - it was one of my first thoughts, but it seems that mechanics is where all the info I need feedback on lives.
                                     
                                    Aidan

                                    Shreyas Sampat <laopooh@...> wrote:
                                    > Keep in mind, guys, you're getting the informal introduction. The
                                    > rules will basically do exactly what you suggest, JRice. I am
                                    > terminably and painfully aware of overjargonosity (that's a word, I'm
                                    > sure of it). One of my favorite settings, the original Immortal,
                                    > suffered from exactly this problem.

                                    Incidentally, our private discussion satisfied me regarding the motivation of
                                    your jargonosity; though I disagree with its premise, it makes sense.

                                    My concern about the mechanic is how to represent it in IRC... it wouldn't be
                                    an easy thing to write a script for.  Of course, you could just screen the
                                    players away from the mechanics.

                                    =====
                                    Shreyas

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                                  • Shreyas Sampat
                                    ... I disagree with the premise that mechanical terminology should be coloured by the terminology internal to the setting. Of course, in any game with things
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                      > If I may, what part of the premise do you disagree with? Just curious,
                                      > really... I'm glad my reasoning satisfied you. That means I can explain/argue
                                      > the resoning well enough to do what I'm tasked myself to do, if nothing else.
                                      I disagree with the premise that mechanical terminology should be coloured by
                                      the terminology internal to the setting. Of course, in any game with things
                                      like race mechanics, this is impossible to do...

                                      > I'm also at a loss as to how to represent the mechanic in IRC. A script can
                                      > be done (I've done it in VB easy enough), but there's also the issue of
                                      > typing in IRC. I'm not sure I can type fast enough, and think it might work
                                      > better as a PBeM game... in which case, I'm guessing it's no longer
                                      > appropriate to the list?
                                      Type fast enough for what?
                                      Any sort of -online- gaming is appropriate to the list; we just have an
                                      official channel because it serves the multiple purposes of being a social
                                      venue and a convenient place to run games.

                                      > I'm an IRC virgin, so if I'm being daunted needlessly, say so. I'm
                                      > particularly worries about screening players away from mechanics - it was one
                                      > of my first thoughts, but it seems that mechanics is where all the info I
                                      > need feedback on lives.
                                      Well, IRL I'm sure you won't be screening too many players... I know folks with
                                      dice collections big enough to handle your mechanics, without having to buy
                                      stones or anything like that. Knowing the sort of people interested enough to
                                      have found the indie gaming community, I suspect that I'm not alone in this.

                                      =====
                                      Shreyas

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                                    • taalenmaple
                                      ... coloured by ... with things ... I get it. I m not saying that mechanic terms _should_ be, but rather that they _can_ be, and that doing so helps support
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                        Shreyas wrote:
                                        > I disagree with the premise that mechanical terminology should be
                                        coloured by
                                        > the terminology internal to the setting. Of course, in any game
                                        with things
                                        > like race mechanics, this is impossible to do...

                                        I get it. I'm not saying that mechanic terms _should_ be, but rather
                                        that they _can_ be, and that doing so helps support the setting.
                                        Getting more complicated - in-game, the idea is that any action uses
                                        Quiddity (aka Chi). The body naturally draws red quiddity to perform
                                        athletic actions, and green to think things. So if I use mechanics
                                        that simulate that (essentially what the draw is all about), then it
                                        supports the setting and in-game "physics" to refer to mechanics by
                                        the same terms. Also, part of my theory is that doing so helps
                                        prevent "mechanic interruption", where the tension of the game is
                                        interrupted by descriptions of bonus dice and such like. Of course,
                                        if you think my theory's shit, that's perfectly allowed! ;)


                                        > Type fast enough for what?

                                        For IRC games.

                                        > Any sort of -online- gaming is appropriate to the list; we just
                                        have an
                                        > official channel because it serves the multiple purposes of being a
                                        social
                                        > venue and a convenient place to run games.

                                        Right then! So, is PBeM good for you Ed and JRice? How 'bout you,
                                        Mike, you in or out?

                                        > Well, IRL I'm sure you won't be screening too many players... I
                                        know folks with
                                        > dice collections big enough to handle your mechanics, without
                                        having to buy
                                        > stones or anything like that. Knowing the sort of people
                                        interested enough to
                                        > have found the indie gaming community, I suspect that I'm not alone
                                        in this.
                                        >

                                        This is entirely true, and likely not an issue. I use the honor
                                        system, so I might create a little program in VB and file it here for
                                        online game use. Put in the details of your caern, click a button,
                                        and voila! A draw!

                                        Thanks again for the feedback, Shreyas. Even disagreeing with me is
                                        helping a lot!

                                        Aidan
                                      • Shreyas Sampat
                                        ... Agreed; they work very well, once the barrier of understanding the setting is broken. I m all for mechanics supporting setting, I just try and make a deep
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                          > I get it. I'm not saying that mechanic terms _should_ be, but rather
                                          > that they _can_ be, and that doing so helps support the setting.
                                          Agreed; they work very well, once the barrier of understanding the setting is
                                          broken. I'm all for mechanics supporting setting, I just try and make a deep
                                          disconnect between the world and the game. You're trying the opposite, I
                                          think.

                                          > Getting more complicated - in-game, the idea is that any action uses
                                          > Quiddity (aka Chi). The body naturally draws red quiddity to perform
                                          > athletic actions, and green to think things. So if I use mechanics
                                          > that simulate that (essentially what the draw is all about), then it
                                          > supports the setting and in-game "physics" to refer to mechanics by
                                          > the same terms. Also, part of my theory is that doing so helps
                                          > prevent "mechanic interruption", where the tension of the game is
                                          > interrupted by descriptions of bonus dice and such like. Of course,
                                          > if you think my theory's shit, that's perfectly allowed! ;)

                                          This is what I call a sheep in wolf's clothing - looked at from outside the
                                          design process, it looks like the setting has bent to match the rules, and
                                          turned an interestingly abstract mechanic into some pervy Simulationist thing
                                          :D

                                          > Right then! So, is PBeM good for you Ed and JRice? How 'bout you,
                                          > Mike, you in or out?
                                          I have my doubts about the effectiveness of PBEM; I'd like to at least attempt
                                          IRC, but I won't insist on it. I'd be willing to do PBEM, though, under the
                                          condition that we hash out a clear understanding beforehand of what sort of
                                          participation we expect. I've been burned many a time by bad timing and
                                          flagging interest.

                                          > Thanks again for the feedback, Shreyas. Even disagreeing with me is
                                          > helping a lot!
                                          Glad to be of service.

                                          =====
                                          Shreyas

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                                        • Nathan E Banks
                                          ... Hash: SHA1 Friday, July 25, 2003, 1:40:24 AM, Aidan wrote: AG I m also at a loss as to how to represent the mechanic in AG IRC. A script can be done
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                            -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                                            Hash: SHA1

                                            Friday, July 25, 2003, 1:40:24 AM, Aidan wrote:

                                            AG> I'm also at a loss as to how to represent the mechanic in
                                            AG> IRC. A script can be done (I've done it in VB easy enough),
                                            AG> but there's also the issue of typing in IRC. I'm not sure I
                                            AG> can type fast enough, and think it might work better as a
                                            AG> PBeM game... in which case, I'm guessing it's no longer
                                            AG> appropriate to the list?

                                            Now, why would you guess this? Seriously, is there anything in
                                            particular that gave you this idea? If so, it needs to be
                                            changed, because any electronic play format is kosher here. We
                                            even had a PBeM SOAP game going on the actual list for a while.

                                            That said, most play is pretty painless on IRC. I'm just not
                                            sure how you'd handle the whole "grabbing tokens from a pot"
                                            thing.

                                            - --
                                            Nathan E. Banks

                                            "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
                                            punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
                                            car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
                                            house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
                                            take his stuff."

                                            - Colin the Riot

                                            http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

                                            ICQ 34492883
                                            PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
                                            850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

                                            - --
                                            "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
                                            - Niccolo Paganini

                                            -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                                            Version: PGP 6.5i

                                            iQA/AwUBPyE6PGnSnh2Eg3dzEQJwmgCg8D/BT3wgeCIO9SaJzFcsCWHNWk8AoLQK
                                            Yly/Uwdn/vblFhcDzKr/G92A
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                                          • JRice
                                            ... Is... okay. PBeM is SLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. But I can do it. ... This could also be done in IRC, of course.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                              > Right then! So, is PBeM good for you Ed and JRice? How 'bout you,
                                              >Mike, you in or out?

                                              Is... okay. PBeM is SLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. But I can do it.

                                              >system, so I might create a little program in VB and file it here for
                                              >online game use. Put in the details of your caern, click a button,
                                              >and voila! A draw!

                                              This could also be done in IRC, of course.
                                            • Aidan Grey
                                              Okay, IRC it is. Just be gentle with me... When is good for you, JRice? Aidan ... Is... okay. PBeM is SLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. But I can do it. ... This
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                                Okay, IRC it is. Just be gentle with me...
                                                 
                                                When is good for you, JRice?
                                                 
                                                Aidan

                                                JRice <rice@...> wrote:
                                                >  Right then! So, is PBeM good for you Ed and JRice? How 'bout you,
                                                >Mike, you in or out?

                                                Is... okay.  PBeM is SLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.  But I can do it.

                                                >system, so I might create a little program in VB and file it here for
                                                >online game use. Put in the details of your caern, click a button,
                                                >and voila! A draw!

                                                This could also be done in IRC, of course.




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                                              • JRice
                                                ... Anytime. I work from home. I do have to wake up at 6:00 in the morning, though. ;) I m in California, though... so keep that in mind regarding
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 25, 2003
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                                                  >When is good for you, JRice?

                                                  Anytime. I work from home. I do have to wake up at 6:00 in the
                                                  morning, though. ;)

                                                  I'm in California, though... so keep that in mind regarding timezones.
                                                • Jonathan D Carr
                                                  ... timezones. Man, can I get your job? Jack
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                                    --- In indie-netgaming@yahoogroups.com, JRice <rice@t...> wrote:
                                                    > >When is good for you, JRice?
                                                    >
                                                    > Anytime. I work from home. I do have to wake up at 6:00 in the
                                                    > morning, though. ;)
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm in California, though... so keep that in mind regarding
                                                    timezones.

                                                    Man, can I get your job?
                                                    Jack
                                                  • JRice
                                                    ... I d prefer you didn t. ;)
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                                      >> Anytime. I work from home. I do have to wake up at 6:00 in the
                                                      >> morning, though. ;)
                                                      >>
                                                      >> I'm in California, though... so keep that in mind regarding
                                                      >timezones.
                                                      >
                                                      >Man, can I get your job?

                                                      I'd prefer you didn't. ;)
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