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Re: [indie-netgaming] Messing Around With SOAP

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  • Nathan E Banks
    ... Hash: SHA1 Saturday, May 3, 2003, 5:01:24 PM, Ed wrote: EH BTW, has anyone done PBEM Pool? If so how did it go? Not PBeM, but I ve done Pool and TQB on
    Message 1 of 17 , May 3, 2003
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      Saturday, May 3, 2003, 5:01:24 PM, Ed wrote:

      EH> BTW, has anyone done PBEM Pool? If so how did it go?

      Not PBeM, but I've done Pool and TQB on IRC quite a few times.
      Works great. I think Bob was in a Pool PBeM though, and Colin
      the Riot was posting about one here a while ago.


      - --
      Nathan E. Banks

      "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
      punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
      car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
      house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
      take his stuff."

      - Colin the Riot

      http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

      ICQ 34492883
      PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
      850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

      - --
      "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
      - Niccolo Paganini

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    • Lxndr
      ... You know, proselytizing in the religion world generally means more than saying go read the bible! ;) ... Well, once I get the print version, I ll be
      Message 2 of 17 , May 3, 2003
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        >
        >
        >Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! He doesn't know the Pool! I get to
        >proselytize! Get thee to http://www.randomordercreations.com
        >
        >
        You know, proselytizing in the religion world generally means more
        than saying "go read the bible!" ;)

        >Aha! I haven't actually read the free version. I understand that
        >it's quite different from the PDF and Print versions.
        >
        >
        Well, once I get the print version, I'll be sure to look it over and
        tweak my rules where/if necessary.

        >I'm seeing what you're saying. I hadn't thought about it from
        >the "defend multiple characters with only 2 plot points" angle.
        >I was thinking of it from the "characters as plot point
        >generator" direction, assuming that multiple characters is a big
        >advantage.
        >
        Multiple characters is somewhat of an advantage in a pooled points
        scenario, but you do now have multiple characters to try to care for, as
        well.

        >I'm driven to ask by your comments . . . have you heard of
        >Universalis? It seems like you're trying to expand SOAP to do
        >things it wasn't exactly intended to do - which is not a bad
        >thing necessarily, but I suspect that Universalis may already be
        >exactly what you're looking for.
        >
        Heard of it. Havent' seen it. Getting around to ordering THAT print
        copy (I have a "to get" list of around $2000 worth of gaming items) and
        haven't been able to find any sort of free/test/view/whatever copy to
        peer at in the meantime. I like many aspects of the SOAP rules (the
        whole "one sentence at a time" bit, the diceless nature, the freeform
        characters, the "I get to screw with you" nature of the Plot Tokens that
        seem to encourage friendly rivalries and flurries of posts).
      • Robert McNamee
        Speaking of Rules I made... I think I m holding up the Shogun Soap game again...I ll have to go check. The Pool PBEM went ok...but Life intervened causing it
        Message 3 of 17 , May 3, 2003
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          Speaking of Rules I made...
           
          I think I'm holding up the Shogun Soap game again...I'll have to go check.
           
          The Pool PBEM went ok...but Life intervened causing it to be put on Pause until the gamemaster's schedule clears up enough to do it justice. It had a nice slow leisurely pace, which I enjoyed.
           
          Bob McNamee
           
          ...going to read Shogun Soap...see if I'm stalling the game again.


          Lxndr <lxndr@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! He doesn't know the Pool! I get to
          >proselytize! Get thee to http://www.randomordercreations.com
          >
          >
          You know, proselytizing in the religion world generally means more
          than saying "go read the bible!" ;)

          >Aha! I haven't actually read the free version. I understand that
          >it's quite different from the PDF and Print versions.
          >
          >
          Well, once I get the print version, I'll be sure to look it over and
          tweak my rules where/if necessary.

          >I'm seeing what you're saying. I hadn't thought about it from
          >the "defend multiple characters with only 2 plot points" angle.
          >I was thinking of it from the "characters as plot point
          >generator" direction, assuming that multiple characters is a big
          >advantage.
          >
          Multiple characters is somewhat of an advantage in a pooled points
          scenario, but you do now have multiple characters to try to care for, as
          well.

          >I'm driven to ask by your comments . . . have you heard of
          >Universalis? It seems like you're trying to expand SOAP to do
          >things it wasn't exactly intended to do - which is not a bad
          >thing necessarily, but I suspect that Universalis may already be
          >exactly what you're looking for.
          >
          Heard of it. Havent' seen it. Getting around to ordering THAT print
          copy (I have a "to get" list of around $2000 worth of gaming items) and
          haven't been able to find any sort of free/test/view/whatever copy to
          peer at in the meantime. I like many aspects of the SOAP rules (the
          whole "one sentence at a time" bit, the diceless nature, the freeform
          characters, the "I get to screw with you" nature of the Plot Tokens that
          seem to encourage friendly rivalries and flurries of posts).


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        • Nathan E Banks
          ... Hash: SHA1 Saturday, May 3, 2003, 6:55:11 PM, Robert wrote: RM ...going to read Shogun Soap...see if I m stalling the game again. Bob, it is your turn
          Message 4 of 17 , May 3, 2003
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            Saturday, May 3, 2003, 6:55:11 PM, Robert wrote:

            RM> ...going to read Shogun Soap...see if I'm stalling the game
            again.

            Bob, it is your turn again. If you missed posts I can send them
            to you. Sorry, I meant to notify you on IRC in case your email
            was acting up again, but I forgot.

            - --
            Nathan E. Banks

            "My friend saw what I writing and says what is "doo-too". So I
            punch him in teh neck and take his wallet and keys, drive his
            car to dave and busters and spen all his money on booze and
            house of dead 3. That's what "doo-too" is, fool. I kill him and
            take his stuff."

            - Colin the Riot

            http://paganini.knightswood.net - Home of Cliff Castle Games

            ICQ 34492883
            PGP Public Key Fingerprint:
            850A 55AB 1963 7C0E 534A B39E 69D2 9E1D 8483 7773

            - --
            "Paganini avoids mediocrity in everything."
            - Niccolo Paganini

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          • Lxndr
            Related to my earlier SOAP rambling (which I d still like to hear other s opinions, if possible, especially Crayne if he s here) is the game setting I m
            Message 5 of 17 , May 3, 2003
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              Related to my earlier SOAP rambling (which I'd still like to hear
              other's opinions, if possible, especially Crayne if he's here) is the
              game setting I'm pondering using SOAP rules for. I'm taking the basic
              ideas espoused in the Twilight of the Superheroes (which can be found at
              this address: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6612/twilight.htm) and
              pasting it onto a Wild Cards universe fast-forwarded twenty or thirty
              years (a book series edited by George R. R. Martin, still in many ways
              the best superpowered setting I've seen). It's meant to be a political
              setting with various "Noble Houses" competing in a Godfather-like
              manner; powers are just one playing card amongst many.

              In any case, as a result I'm considering separating a character's
              "concept statement" into two sections, the first part the standard "who
              the character is" and the second "what the character has become." The
              'what' would be a description of this character's ace-ness, his
              joker-ness, or his lack of both qualities (including any powers he might
              have). I'm not sure why I want this separation, but I know I do (I
              think it's so that players wouldn't waste adjectives on powers).

              Now, I want this separate section to have meaning; some sort of
              purpose in the game mechanics themselves. What's going through my mind
              now is "every sentence you use an ace ability on screen, you spend a
              Plot Token; every time you suffer a penalty due to a deformity, you get
              a Plot Token." Thus if I somehow had Superman himself in the setting,
              his flying, x-ray vision, super-strength and so on would cost a Plot
              Token per sentence I was using it; being near enough to Kryptonite to be
              weakened would give me a Plot Token. (any sort of social stigma due to
              Joker deformity would be considered a penalty here as well)

              Any ideas?
            • Alexander Cherry
              I am working with Ferry Bazelmans (creator of SOAP) to formalize the superheroic/comic book SOAP rules (and various and sundry other rules) which I posted to
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 10, 2003
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                I am working with Ferry Bazelmans (creator of SOAP) to formalize the
                superheroic/comic book SOAP rules (and various and sundry other
                rules) which I posted to this list in, well, embryonic form, so very
                long ago. I believe they're finally ready for playtesting, so I was
                wondering: is there anyone here who'd be interested in trying a short
                SOAPerheroes game?

                I'd prefer to just do it one night in the IRC channel (Wednesday is a
                good night for me), but I'd be willing to try it on the ubiquitous
                Wiki or in email, too, if that'd be easier for people.

                I've got rules for:

                * Having multiple "PCs" per player
                * Adding/changing Traits and Relationships
                * Secret Identities (rules such that they can be shown on screen,
                unlike the Secrets)
                * the Special Effects budget (for superpowers)
                * Weaknesses (which can cover everything from kryptonite to a bad
                reputation)
                * And special rules for emulating the comics' "Nobody Dies Except
                Bucky" imperative.

                (I'm also continuing to work on turn-less or "Dynamic" soap, but I
                don't think that's ready for playtesting)

                Any takers?
              • Mike Holmes
                Can t do Wednesday, that s my FTF night. I am interested in the mechanics, however. What s the win condition? Mike ...
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 10, 2003
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                  Can't do Wednesday, that's my FTF night.

                  I am interested in the mechanics, however. What's the "win" condition?

                  Mike

                  >From: "Alexander Cherry" <lxndr@...>
                  >
                  >I am working with Ferry Bazelmans (creator of SOAP) to formalize the
                  >superheroic/comic book SOAP rules (and various and sundry other
                  >rules) which I posted to this list in, well, embryonic form, so very
                  >long ago. I believe they're finally ready for playtesting, so I was
                  >wondering: is there anyone here who'd be interested in trying a short
                  >SOAPerheroes game?
                  >
                  >I'd prefer to just do it one night in the IRC channel (Wednesday is a
                  >good night for me), but I'd be willing to try it on the ubiquitous
                  >Wiki or in email, too, if that'd be easier for people.
                  >
                  >I've got rules for:
                  >
                  >* Having multiple "PCs" per player
                  >* Adding/changing Traits and Relationships
                  >* Secret Identities (rules such that they can be shown on screen,
                  >unlike the Secrets)
                  >* the Special Effects budget (for superpowers)
                  >* Weaknesses (which can cover everything from kryptonite to a bad
                  >reputation)
                  >* And special rules for emulating the comics' "Nobody Dies Except
                  >Bucky" imperative.
                  >
                  >(I'm also continuing to work on turn-less or "Dynamic" soap, but I
                  >don't think that's ready for playtesting)
                  >
                  >Any takers?
                  >

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                • Alexander Cherry
                  ... condition? ... Nothing s set yet; if wednesday doesn t work, my schedule really is rather open. Saturday and Sundays are the only real bad nights for me.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 10, 2003
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                    --- In indie-netgaming@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Holmes"
                    <homeydont@h...> wrote:
                    > Can't do Wednesday, that's my FTF night.
                    >
                    > I am interested in the mechanics, however. What's the "win"
                    condition?
                    >
                    > Mike

                    Nothing's set yet; if wednesday doesn't work, my schedule really is
                    rather open. Saturday and Sundays are the only real bad nights for
                    me. Plus we can also do it in a wiki, or email. I'm flexible.

                    What's the "win" condition for regular SOAP? It hadn't occurred to
                    me that it had one, or that I should include one.
                  • Mike Holmes
                    ... Hmm. I haven t read the published version. Apparently it s changed since the playtest days to not have a win condition. That s too bad... Mike
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 10, 2003
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                      >From: "Alexander Cherry" <lxndr@...>

                      >What's the "win" condition for regular SOAP? It hadn't occurred to
                      >me that it had one, or that I should include one.

                      Hmm. I haven't read the published version. Apparently it's changed since the
                      playtest days to not have a win condition. That's too bad...

                      Mike

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                    • Lxndr
                      I still don t really follow. What WAS the win condition in the older versions of SOAP? Each character has a goal (but getting it doesn t end the game). Each
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 10, 2003
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                        I still don't really follow. What WAS the win condition in the older
                        versions of SOAP?

                        Each character has a "goal" (but getting it doesn't end the game).
                        Each character has a "secret" (which if discovered means killing the
                        character is possible).
                        You can keep track of your Plot Tokens and "win" that way...

                        Oh well. Would you still be interested?

                        Mike Holmes wrote:

                        >>From: "Alexander Cherry" <lxndr@...>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >>What's the "win" condition for regular SOAP? It hadn't occurred to
                        >>me that it had one, or that I should include one.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >Hmm. I haven't read the published version. Apparently it's changed since the
                        >playtest days to not have a win condition. That's too bad...
                        >
                        >Mike
                        >
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                      • Mike Holmes
                        ... There were a couple of different stabs at it. They involved different combinations of the above elements. None of them ever worked right, however. So I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 11, 2003
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                          >From: Lxndr <lxndr@...>
                          >
                          >I still don't really follow. What WAS the win condition in the older
                          >versions of SOAP?
                          >
                          >Each character has a "goal" (but getting it doesn't end the game).
                          >Each character has a "secret" (which if discovered means killing the
                          >character is possible).
                          >You can keep track of your Plot Tokens and "win" that way...

                          There were a couple of different stabs at it. They involved different
                          combinations of the above elements. None of them ever worked right, however.
                          So I guess that I'm not surprised that such a condition didn't make it into
                          the final game. I guess I had just assumed that Ferry had figured it out,
                          and put it in the final version. Seems to me that it would give a whole
                          different feel to the game to not be playing to win. I liked that feel.
                          Hmmm.

                          > Oh well. Would you still be interested?

                          Maybe if it's by mail or Wiki. Is there anywhere one can view the rules?

                          Mike

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                        • Alexander Cherry
                          ... Hrm. Could be interesting. I hadn t really thought of it as a game to play to win. Then again, I don t really see Monopoly that way either. Even when a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 11, 2003
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                            --- In indie-netgaming@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Holmes"
                            <homeydont@h...> wrote:
                            > Seems to me that it would give a whole different feel to the game
                            > to not be playing to win. I liked that feel. Hmmm.

                            Hrm. Could be interesting. I hadn't really thought of it as a game
                            to play to win. Then again, I don't really see Monopoly that way
                            either. Even when a game has a win condition, it's secondary to me.
                            I wonder how/if soap would have appealed to me if Ferry had figured
                            out a way to keep the win condition in the game.

                            > > Oh well. Would you still be interested?
                            >
                            > Maybe if it's by mail or Wiki. Is there anywhere one can view the
                            rules?

                            I'm getting more and more tempted to do it via Wiki. The new Topos
                            playtest is sort of taking up all my email time, and checking web
                            pages generally is easier than checking email (case in point, I'm
                            writing this from the yahoo page).

                            There's still a free copy of the soap rules on Ferry's page, or you
                            could purchase the pdf for a nominal fee. My modifications are in
                            word document format right now (they were mainly just notes for me)
                            but I'll post them on a Wiki, if we go that route.
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